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PlayWay Water - high quality water system

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by zuzzu, Oct 9, 2015.

  1. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Thanks! Yes, fluids may be placed at any position.

    I don't recommend using my system for rivers though. That would require flow maps support to look well. I would like to implement them some day, but sadly that won't happen in the near future unless more people will show interest in that feature.
     
  2. Schedim

    Schedim

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    Fantastic! This is someting I really looking forward to try!

    And rivers is of a major interest to me!
     
  3. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    I've optimized and improved PW Water on mobile platforms and will update the web player demo in few days. Fast and fastest quality levels were completely overhauled and all quality levels should get a minor performance boost.

    I've also added an initial support for manually created waves/foam. You can manually render to the local maps of each camera or (recommended) use a wave particle system component that makes it far easier to use, takes care of basic realism and supports physics. I've needed that feature for shoreline waves and physics-induced waves.

    Speaking of shoreline waves, I've tried few approaches in the last few days and have found a viable solution. It won't make it for the initial version, but I'm pretty sure it will ship with the first update (2 - 3 weeks).

    I will submit PW Water to the Asset Store today.

    Noted ;) Thanks.
     
  4. montyfi

    montyfi

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    Will it work correctly with dynamic light (e.g. Time of Day moving sun/moon?)
    Have you tested it with SSAO?
     
  5. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    I would actually strongly encourage to use it with Time of Day. Looks great.

    We have also tested it with SilverLining.

    SSAO and SSAO Pro work too, but the Standard Assets one may sometimes try too hard to add occlusion on the distant waves. You may a) fade such waves in water profile settings or b) use modified SSAO shader which fades out at distance (that by the way also solves some of its other problems).
     
  6. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Hey! PW Water is already pending a review. Should land in the store in a week or so.

    New promo materials:

    Clipboard03.png


    Clipboard06.png
     
    LostPanda, Mr-Logan, punk and 5 others like this.
  7. KingLlama

    KingLlama

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    God that looks sooooo good.
     
  8. Plutoman

    Plutoman

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    This looks really good. A couple questions... how does it work in areas with non-directional lights? Like, underground areas, simulating small underground lakes? With just point lights around, generally? I had many issues making water that looked good in dark areas.

    Secondly, I have a physics-based water solution using compute shaders / tessellation, to generate waves that follow a texture. Obviously, you are not doing the physics based yet, but are you using tessellation, and would that be possible to adapt into the system?
     
  9. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Yes, all types of lights are supported. I can try such scene setup for you and post some screenshots

    If you mean using custom maps to displace water then that's already supported along with tesselation. You should be good to go ;)
     
  10. Plutoman

    Plutoman

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    Oh, that sounds perfect then already. That would be enough physics interaction for what I need then. I'm assuming you're probably working on a ripple system (dynamic waves?) so I'm sure if the quality is up to the pictures you've shown I'll swap to that, but it would be good to have something easy to set up for demos - perfect. It's for smaller ripples, but same thing really.

    If you can do a darker scene like that, especially with small(er) motion (ie, closer to still bodies, in the range of a normal lake to totally still surfaces), and get it to look great, that would be fantastic. This is about the closest I can get to a recent shot with water, since I'm in the middle of a refactor; https://www.dropbox.com/s/wiczf543zjecevc/Screenshot_2015-08-13_03-21-10_12.png?dl=0 with my current water setup.

    Ah, and one last question; is there any baking involved? I assume not, but I wanted to double check; everything I do is procedural and the water is instantiated with custom meshes to fit generated areas. Custom meshes are supported, I see, so that's already good to go. That's another stickler I had with some other water packages.

    Thanks! Getting excited for water. A robust system would allow me to have underground oceans with waves coming in, along with smaller bodies.
     
  11. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Dynamic waves - yes. I hope to make two implementations - CPU and GPU one. The first one is designed for big waves (shoreline waves etc.) to let the physics on CPU have easy access to them. GPU one will be richer in features and able to simulate more waves in realtime, but its waves won't affect physics.

    Sure, I will do my best next week ;) I'm pretty curious myself.

    Thanks and nope, no baking. I'm also using it in two procedural games.
     
  12. Seith

    Seith

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    @zuzzu It looks really nice, congrats! I have a couple of questions for you:

    1) Is this asset adapted to smaller bodies of water (ie: big pond, small water reservoir, etc...)?

    2) Is there visible interaction between the player (a capsule or character collider) and the water surface (ie: disturbance, trailing wake, etc...)?

    Finally I think there's probably an issue with the web demo: the beginning looks really cool but then the screen turns mostly black and not much is visible anymore:



     
    Mr-Logan likes this.
  13. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    By design - yes, but it still wasn't thoroughly tested in such use case. I would recommend waiting a month before doing so.

    For now no - but that should change soon. I've had different priorities for our projects. Publication to the asset store has changed them now.

    No, it's fine :) It was supposed to look like a storm. I had to do this without using any weather system like Time of Day as this scene is included in the bundle. This is my quick and dirty way to achieve this.
     
    Mr-Logan likes this.
  14. angel_m

    angel_m

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    I think you should remove the "storm" effect. ;)
     
  15. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Ouch, I guess I should ;)
     
  16. FPires

    FPires

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    It doesn't have to look like a storm in the blackest of the nights. The end result is that the screen is almost entirely pitch black and you can't see anything. You should keep the changes in knots with a fixed weather, because it makes it much easier to compare what is actually happening in the asset.

    On the actual asset: It's looking very good, very impressive visual results. One of the best water assets I've seen so far based on the screenshots and videos.
     
    Mr-Logan likes this.
  17. montyfi

    montyfi

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    Vote for player interaction too. This is the only thing why I prefer to use Suimono water now. But I would defiantly switch if you do that.
     
  18. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Looks very cool

    Is there a standalone demo ? Unfortunately i get a scrambled image in my webplayer. I can see some of the waves, but there is random polygons in the most of the screen
     
    bartm4n likes this.
  19. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    What's your GPU model?

    If what you see looks like in elias_t post, then it will also happen in standalone player. We've digged deeper this issue and it turned out to be Unity's issue with float render textures mipmapping on some AMD GPUs. Hopefully they will fix this soon.

    I have a workaround, but I'm still waiting for more reports to make sure what hardware/software combination is a source of this issue.
     
  20. nasos_333

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    I do have an AMD GPU (7790 i think), so this is probably the cause. Seems like the projected grid has this precision issue perhaps
     
  21. Plutoman

    Plutoman

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    Taking a while for the asset store! Keeping a watch though. Seems like they're backed up.
     
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  22. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    This is probably the render texture auto mipmap issue I've mentioned. It seems that on some GPUs displacement mip maps end up being filled with random garbage. I'll have to temporarily disable trilinear filtering on them, but don't want to be too radical.

    If anyone can run the demo on AMD GPU without issues that would also help to narrow down the issue.
     
  23. Elecman

    Elecman

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    Very impressive!
     
  24. Elecman

    Elecman

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    Can you make the webplayer a bit more interactive with free camera and time of day control? I want to zoom out to 10 km height and see what it looks like.
     
  25. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Yes. There will be another demo in the asset store description which will let you do this.
     
  26. Elecman

    Elecman

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    Excellent. By the way, be sure to have your Asset Store developer page up with some examples of prior work. Also give Unity your webpage with examples of your prior work. This is an un-documented requirement and your asset WILL be rejected if you don't comply with this.
     
    John-G likes this.
  27. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Thanks! I'll take a look.
     
  28. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    I have found a way to double fps while keeping the same quality and also removing some artifacts at the same time o_O It's so lightweight now even on Fantastic.

    I wonder if I should let Unity publish the old version or have a fresh start with the improved one. What do you guys think?

    Other stuff that I've done waiting for a review:
    • Improved tesselation performance.
    • Tesselation no longer produces slightly visible artifacts.
    • Both quad and triangle tesselation support for custom meshes.
    • Fixed few harmless errors.
     
    Plutoman likes this.
  29. Elecman

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    I would wait for them to approve the initial version first. If you re-submit it than it will be pushed to the back of the queue, but if you update an existing version, they approve it faster. Besides, making an update with a big performance increase makes your asset look good.
     
    Mr-Logan likes this.
  30. derkoi

    derkoi

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    Watching with intent. :)
     
  31. gurayg

    gurayg

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    Wonderful news!
    I mean double the FPS!!! + less artifacts!!!

    I say, with the current speed of the Asset Store reviewing process, if they'll start all over, once you change it. It might take another 2 weeks. Why not put it as an update, assuming they're close to answer your first version.

    Also I'd like to ask some questions;
    -I understand PlayWay Water supports other types of water bodies, Can we see any video/image/demo of this?
    -You said using PlayWay Water as a river needs flow map support. Can we use our flow map shader with this system to mimic rivers or is there something else that is required to make rivers?
    -Any ways to mask the Play Water Meshes?
    -How about a introductory sale for a good kick-start?
    -Any news for downloadable demos?
    -How is the Shoreline waves coming along?

    Thanks for your time.
     
    S_Darkwell likes this.
  32. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    One of our games using PW Water will be published soon and I need to ensure that performance and stability of my water solution is ready for that. I will get back to adding new features and publishing new demos soon.

    For now flow maps are not supported. That's not a big deal to add them, but I'm not sure if that will do it to make rivers look as I would like them to ;) I haven't done any research yet on rivers so I can't give you any ETA, but I do intend to support externally generated flow maps as there are already very good solutions for this on the Asset Store.

    Masking is at the core of my system. That's one of the features that you can't disable on the shader as I haven't ever used water without having a need to mask it somewhere.

    Volume and flat masks are supported. Volume masks remove all water (visually and physically) from the inside of attached collider (useful for ships, boats etc.). Flat masks are just regular meshes with special shader to remove water and underwater effects at a view space (we use that for displaying a section of submerged objects).

    I was told that 100$ will be the introductory price ;) It may (or may not) get higher as new features will appear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
  33. Cascho01

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    100€ is more expensive than Cetos Ocean System, so what are the advanages of your Water-System compared to Ceto?
     
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  34. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    I'm not sure if that's good idea to start such discussion here. Strong features of my system, which I consider selling points over competition, are:
    • Fast and convincing physics.
    • Proper rendering to depth buffer (both in transparent and opaque mode) makes it compatible with most weather systems and image effects. Should work with most scene setups out of the box.
    • Spray particles when waves break.
    • Friendly and practical in use in projects of all sizes through the use of water profile files, distributed quality settings and clean inspector editors.
    • Extensive masking support (volumetric and flat, visual and physical).
    • Automatic fallback to Gerstner waves on old PCs and many mobile devices.
    • It's developed here in PW for many games, so you may be sure that it will be continuously updated.
    • Bonus stuff: PBR assets commonly used along with water (galleon, seagull, boat, pontoon), underwater audio and wet lens effects.
    I think that 100$ price is completely fair considering that Triton is several times more expensive and our teams prefer it over Triton. Also I don't want it to be too low as I would spend too much time on user support and I have my deadlines too ;)
     
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  35. Plutoman

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    I'll add a big comparison point in favor of PlayWater was this;
    Ceto was pure projected grid, which meant it was only suitable for an ocean body (though I will say it's also quite beautiful, and I admire Scrawk's work).

    One more miscellaneous question; how's the performance for multiple bodies of water? Assuming say, 20-30 small lakes and puddles spread through a level (at most 2-5 visible at once)?
     
  36. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    That's one of the things I've fixed lately. You will have to wait for the first update, unless you don't plan to use FFT waves (wind ones).
     
  37. John-G

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    Can you show in example of ship bouyany. Would love to see how it works in strong waves etc.
     
  38. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Sorry, I can't make an additional demo at this time, but you may see some of what you are looking for in the opening video.

    The only other related thing that I have online is a bit outdated video with physics stress test running on my old machine: link.
     
    Haagndaaz likes this.
  39. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    What to expect in the next update:
    • Improved performance (2x) and visual quality at the same time.
    • Tiling shouldn't be visible anymore (unless view distance is ~10 km, but not much).
    • Looks good at all distances without tweaking.
    • Better looking foam.
    • Low quality levels look far better.
    • Refactored code for readability.
    • Configurable physics thread count and priority (Project Settings / Water).
    • Support for instantiation at runtime.
    • Lots of bug fixes.

    Clipboard01.png

    Clipboard02.png
     
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  40. Cascho01

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    AssetStore release? :rolleyes:
     
  41. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    It's still pending review. I think (hope) that's a matter of days or even hours.
     
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  42. Ghosthowl

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  43. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Sure ;) I'm already late with the demo I've promised to Plutoman. I'll do me best to catch up.

    Much thanks to all people who bought PW Water. I will submit a very large update to the asset store today. This one will be about performance, quality and bugs.

    I will start to submit some of the features that I've promised at December.
     
    Rycons likes this.
  44. montyfi

    montyfi

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    Price is a little on the high side. Really would like a demo before purchasing featuring shore lines and underwater. Did you say interaction with water is not implemented yet? Suimono water do all this at half price, sorry for the tough question, but what new features will I get paying double?
     
  45. giraffe1

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  46. zuzzu

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    @montyfi I've already posted general comparison to other water systems. I'm not getting into adding as many features as possible, but making them well. Shoreline waves are extremely complex phenomenon and it will take some time to make it look realistic on a level comparable to that of other features.
     
  47. zuzzu

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    It's fixed in 1.1. I will update the demo soon.
     
  48. nasos_333

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    Looks very good. I would love to have a working demo for my AMD card.

    When is this planned to arrive ? I can see some of the demo in the lowest setting (Fast and Very fast) and looks great, but it is broken in higher modes.

    Also a comparisson for performance with Ceto is must have, this is the most crucial for my RPG project, as the scenes are packed and performance spend margins are tiny.

    Thanks
     
  49. montyfi

    montyfi

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    Understandable. Then, will my third person view character be able to dive/swim and see at least foam behind? If yes, could you say when?
     
  50. zuzzu

    zuzzu

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    Thank you. I will PM you a fixed demo this week ;) For now I'm going to leave the old one online, to make it clear to people on AMD that the current version on Asset Store doesn't work on their machines.

    It's easily configurable in runtime so you may just let each user choose the quality level appropriate for his machine.

    As for performance comparison with Ceto - I don't own it for now and also any comparison on my side could be possibly biased. My guess is that rendering performance would be pretty much the same on both systems. They probably share the same bottleneck. As for physics, my is faster from what I've heard.

    I've had working version of that back in summer, but I feel that I could do better. I think that it will be ready in a month.