Playmaker? worth it?

As of today i've heard about the Visual Scripting program - Playmaker- i checked it out and watched all the video tutorials to get a real understanding and my impression is just wow so far.
Taking something as hard as scripting "for me" to make it that simple.

I've never been the biggest C# scripter. I might be able to pull off a script telling my player to simply move up and down. And that's literally it. Do you think i would have it a lot easier with my "games" in the future if i ended up using "Playmaker"?

For me it looks like it hence it's simplicity.
Trigger's are easy
Values
Text scripts
player scripts etc etc etc.
All that is done so much easier in there instead of me keep asking the forums for how to make a ball hit the wall and let it bounce back and stick to the (paddle obj) again script.

It "Playmaker" worth it for a person who has little to no knowledge in scripting at all?

65$ is really cheap for such a program i would mean.

What are your opinion?

 

2100+ 5-star reviews suggest a lot of people are getting good value out of it.

 

I use Playmaker when prototyping as it saves a lot of time and it's easy to use. It's great for working out the flow of a game, setting up quick button press routines for NGUI, testing out ideas, etc. After a while, once I know a particular flow works well then I start converting what I did in Playmaker into C# and remove the Playmaker components from the game. You can skip that step if you're not super proficient in scripting.

I wouldn't try to do anything really overly complicated with it but I love it for what I use it for, and highly recommend it. I also highly recommend learning C# over time as it will serve you much better in the long run.

 

I heard that while learning Playmaker your also gonna learn C# slowly.
Ofc i will try and learn it but as for now i find better oppertunities as i just can't script and my games are gonna take twice as long.

 

Not necessarily, but if you make a habit of trying to incorporate some C# scripting into your workflow with Playmaker then that would certainly help.

 

I've seen people, mainly teams of artists, put out impressive looking games with simple mechanics by using playmaker during game jams. I did an intro to c# course so started dying to script but was convinced to try Playmaker. I like it for the stuff I haven't learnt to script yet but I still use scripts for the stuff I do know as it's easier to look at & step through for me.

Basically, if you understand the basics of coding but can't actually code then it is probably going to be a good buy for you.

 

Hearthstone and Dreamfall Chapters are some high-profile games which use PlayMaker. Hearthstone used it to let the art team script things on their own, and Dreamfall used it for dialog.

 

Thanks for the answers guys. I'm probably gonna buy it then!

 

I had the opposite happen.
Being not all that good at scripting it just confused me even more.

 

I got Playmaker, and many times i tried to use it i got loops problems, also i don't like the way block actions are displayed on the right panel. I baught Uscript basic, and this one is a real visual scripting as actiosn are displayed as blocks on the graph directly as well as all the variables you use.

I encourage you to buy one that is really more easy to use and more intuitive like Uscript or some others, but Playmaker even if it is the most complete is not the best to use.

By looking at videos i think you will quickly find what is the more intuitive and easy to use.
Playmaker example :

Uscript :

 

Just to write down another perspective:
I bought playmaker thinking I wouldn't bother learning programming at all. But the thing is, while making it easier, you also have to learn using Playmaker. At the end of the day I decided to learn programming, because for me it didn't seem that much more complex to learn. Afterwards, I never used Playmaker again.
Very important: I'm not saying it's a bad plugin. It can be very helpful if you don't want to learn programming at all or if you want to make some sketches, but it's certainly not a tool for everyone.

 

Agree. Some people are visual & struggle with coding but once they try something like playmaker where they get to visualise the scripting it makes it easier to understand how the scripts were working so they are able to go back to scripting & visualise what they are typing.

 

PlayMaker and uScript can complement each other. PM is a state machine, while uScript is a more generic solution. A PM dev talked about using uScript for events in PM, so there might be some examples on their forums.

If using either, I generally go with uScript personally. I write lower level code and turn into nodes for uScript.

 

for having tested most of these framework i recommend node Canvas+flow Canvas, flow canvas not required when you have learned scripting

 

Playmaker's action browser is really great for learning all the basic programming functions and logic. The way it's all cataloged and described makes it easy to find what you need. I have learned so much just by playing around with all the actions. But it gets messy and time consuming with complex mechanics, too much clicking and menus when you could write it all in one line code in C#.

 

Playmaker is AWESOME its WAY worth it- if you know where to look for additional actions like the wiki on their site here OR in the Ecosystem add-on- there isn't really anything you can't do with Playmaker- their forum is also very helpful

I just released a free Intro to Playmaker tutorial if you want to check it out

I tried all the visual scripting assets I could find for Unity and the two that really stand out that I continue to use in every project is Playmaker (Finite State Machines) and Behavior Designer (Behavior trees) they are well integrated with each other as well.

Good luck and have fun!

 

Uscript have the same actions, but the advantages is that you drop these actions in the flowgraph, visually you see all Unity functions, while in Playmaker you only see state blocks in the flowgraph and you must select one to see the actions on the right panel.
Uscript is lot more clear and natural, some UE4 Blueprints equivalent.

Yes flow Canvas seems visually as clear and intuitive to use as Uscript.

 

Yes, PlayMaker is indeed worth it if you have little scripting knowledge. Buy it, play with it for a week or two while watching tutorials and you will be amazed at what you can do without writing a line of code.

 

I would recommend PlayMaker because it was used in part to create HearthStone. I would also recommend it because you can modify the code nodes or write your own entirely. Even for experience coders like myself sometimes it's fun and or useful to write little chunks of code you know you'll need and then plug them into a playmaker state machine.

 

I've started with Uscript. Didn't liked it. Tried Playmaker and quickly understood that it's the best thing ever. I've been using it for many years.

I hope that one day Unity will buy those guys and it will became part of the engine.

 

Technically there is something like it in Unity now. You can twist Mecanim for more purposes than just animation, but it also takes a bit of code. If they expand on that with true visual coding it could replace PlayMaker.

 

I don't like Playmaker at all , it is far away from UE4 Blueprints equivalent, while some others are lot more closer, but not Playmaker. And it is a pain to use while Uscript shows you variables and commands directly in the flowgraph.
I hope Unity will make some Blueprint equivalent and forget Playmaker

There is some visual coding scripting using Mecanim system, but i finally didn't liked it.

 

I've suggested that before, haha. PlayMaker is definitely the best I've tried. I tried uframe but it seemed to be more of an organization framework than anything else. Seems out of place in a component based engine.

 

i find that code blocks is more time consuming (once you really get to know how to code stuff) .. BUT.. code blocks is kinda less boring, makes sticking to the task easier...
.. idk thats me i guess

 

PM bloated my builds and caused drops in framerate. I tossed it.

 

Is that the case when using custom nodes? It's been useful to me for making cutscenes.

 

I think that if you can afford it, then go for it. Some things are obviously easier to write in regular C#, but things like e.g. handling menu items, etc. may be easier to do in visual scripting.

IMO healthy mix of both would give you best experience.

Things I would use Playmaker for:

- Menu handling (and UI code in general)
- Character movement (unless it's too complex and you need many different "moves")
- Simple AI routines (e.g. movement on predefined path, bouncing between two walls, etc. - anything more complex that requires say, actual pathfinding is better left for C#)
- Handling player's health
- Other simple tasks

Things I wouldn't use visual scripting for:
- Camera scripts of any kind - while possible to do it, it would result in hard to maintain node mess - just look at Unreal's blueprints scripts that are bundled with UE4.
- Any complex AI that require, say, pathfinding.

 

I've used Playmaker for tons of stuff, personal to big commercial stuff. Simplest being 1GAM games, middle ground being hobby physics based space-flight game with AI steering and Rift support (over a year ago), most advanced being Pipe Handling / Drilling Simulator demonstration for a booth at the Offshore Technology Conference in Houston. In fact, a pile of demos were using Unity there - some with Playmaker too - with the Oculus Rift. I actually use it in the oil and gas industry to whip together demos quickly for clients based on their rig specs.

I've designed systems in Playmaker that do the same thing as other's hardcoded systems and operate faster and more consistently. Thats not because Playmaker is magical, its because I know how to use it and make it do things fast. It doesn't bloat unless you design something terribly which is pretty easy to do if you don't know how to design FSMs. I see a lot of people design FSMs that are total garbage, they fail easily, run slow, wastefully repeat things and could easily be designed better.

Bottom line is that its a tool. Use tools to do things, if you like FSMs then use Playmaker. If you like node based visual coding then try uScript or something. They are quite different tools. If you prefer to code a bunch of menial scripts when you could do it with a visual tool in about 5 minutes then go ahead, whatever, just don't blame your tools. YMMV but from first hand experience I can attest that you can use it on a commercial, professional level just like any other tool and plenty of other high profile businesses are using it as well.

 

Just used it for all NPC's in an unannounced game. Its great. Even though we wrote like 100+ states our self for it
So its a great tool for both beginners or pro's. Of cause it depends on the project like everything else though.

 

Do you have any tips on what do do or what to avoid? I'm just learning Playmaker myself and I haven't quite figured out how it fits in my workflow.

 

I don't think you'll get Crysis 3 like game made with Unity and using Playmaker.
It is a layer you add instead of keeping only your C# code needs, but it is ok for the majority of Unity small games , simulations, or for people making a game that don't know how to code.

 

I found it worth it. I made a game with it and that's what counts.

Those who are fluent coders might find it less useful than people like me who were coding ignorant when I started. I can see how some might see it as just an extra step that bogs down a system. But the way I see it, it's only a problem if it becomes a problem. If you can get the game to run at a nice smooth pace, then the overhead is worth it.

Best of luck!

 

Yes it does bloat. And I know how to frikking build compact state machines. It was all the crap in their libraries for two simple state machines with a few nodes each. It did not do the trick in the context I was working in. In the context of simpler games I can see the efficacy of such an approach. I would rather write code. Easier to manage.

 

You could use it for AAA games. Not that uncommon that large titles have been using FSM's (quite a few is moving away from it though). PlayMaker is a great way to visually set up your code to get an overview and also got great visual debugging tools. So if you are making a AAA game in Unity, i see absolutely no reason why it could not be used, as you can extend it with more or less everything if you know how it works and know how to code.

The game i was using it for is not AAA but it is a very complex game from technical point of view, and even though we did not use many of the packages standard states it was a great tool with our own coded states.

 

I don't think I could ever use playmaker or any other form of visual scripting as I'm a heavy scripter and often have a ton of files with hundreds of lines. And considering nodes connected with lines take much more visual space than code does you can get why I'm skeptical about this, plus after some point it will become just a big mess of nodes and lines going everywhere.

I personally find code much simpler to work with, even for small prototypes, but that might be because I come from a background of c++ and assembly.

 

I understand that people have different preferences. Most of the time i like to keep it all in code myself if it is a smaller system.

But if you tried handling FSM's with 100s of states then some sort of visual help can be a life and time-saver!
With play-maker you can have sub FSM's that can be re-used in different FSMs. Makes it less clutch in screen space.
Think the largest single FSM we have got is around 100 connected states and thats not a problem at all on the screen. And from color coding states and visually being able see how it moves through the FSM saved us so many hours.

In my new job i am working on a AI system thats pure code. I miss visual debugging!

 

I don't think it's really a case of either or. I do think if you use something like Playmaker as a way to avoid learning to code then you are doing it wrong. Coding is just more and more something almost everyone needs. Most of the current crop of game designers I know are pretty good developers actually. Didn't used to be that way.

Everyone who deals with data in a game knowing how to code is a big plus. I think that's why it's now basically a requirement for a lot of roles to have some development background even if they are not developers per say.

Visual tools make some problems easier to reason about in a number of cases. The core logic I think is still better done in code most of the time, but binding that to a visual component can make a lot of sense. Especially in the context of Unity where to write code you have to switch out of Unity. Visual components designed well can let you stay in a single context for longer and be more productive.

The issue I have with most visual tools is they tend to focus on non developers, so they just don't meet some of my pre-requisites such as being designed to be unit tested easily, having a strong separation of concerns, etc.. It's not that you can't get those things, but they should be the preferred/simplest path and it should be difficult to do otherwise by design.

 

Getting yourself setup with a good TDD environment and changing a few things about how you code stuff in Unity can help this a lot. I've moved to making my components very thin and putting most of the logic in plain classes that I can unit test. With the right setup where your tests automatically run when code changes it's a pretty production way to go. WIth a strong separation of UI and other logic you can cut down a lot on the context switching between unity and your IDE.

 

Sure that helps. But for game development its not always your code that does not work as you want it too. It might be animations, the model of an object, physics behaviours and such (no errors), which is affected by some of your code. Being able to visually follow the flow of the game runtime is pretty important for us at least. But as i said then i really think its each to his own.
On our team we just found out that visual help for our systems when they become complex is saving us a lot of time.