Search Unity

  1. Megacity Metro Demo now available. Download now.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Unity support for visionOS is now available. Learn more in our blog post.
    Dismiss Notice

Piracy in Asset Store

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kondor0, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    I also tried to reach Nexon, I hope they respond but the problem will persist even if they fill a DMCA form (I also would like to know if the scammer will be banned once this happens or only the reported models will disappear). There's lots of dead and obscure south korean MMOs to "harvest".
    I also want to add that the model I bought was deprecated only after I updated my review to warn other people of piracy. It's clear damage control.
     
    SMHall, Rewaken, Martin_H and 2 others like this.
  2. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Posts:
    1,751
    I'm curious about which games the other sets are ripped from. That "urban" set (the one where everyone has huge hands) looks a bit familiar.
     
  3. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436
    If Unity doesn't set a warning example with their response to this incident, in 6 to 12 months the assetstore will be absolutely flooded with stolen assets imho.
     
    metaldc4life and CPlusSharp22 like this.
  4. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2018
    Posts:
    1,751
  5. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    Other thing: I found out about this scammer because another publisher got his asset stolen and republished and he discussed about it in the publishers forum.
    The thing is I assume he filled the DMCA form because the offending asset has been removed: https://assetstore.unity.com/packag...82.778760184.1595140562-1767999137.1570699910

    But the publisher is still not banned despite having a verified case of stolen asset and following the proper procedure.
    Does this mean that if Nexon finally comes and gets their assets removed, the publisher will still be free to sell the rest?
    Why is this not treated as a single strike ban?

    EDIT: welp, it seems the scammer is starting to deprecate all Gits assets to cover his tracks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    Martin_H likes this.
  6. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436
    Wow! Just wow! With every detail you add I'm more shocked by how Unity is handling this, or rather not handling this...
     
  7. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    I was worried I could have misunderstood the refund rejection I got (because I was so mad) so I calmed down and asked for more clarification and I got this answer:

    This bothers me, I'm well aware that the support people have no fault on this but that makes it worse because it's not just a mistake, it's a serious policy that allows scammers to avoid refunds using deprecation and its enforced by Unity staff.

    I imagine if I keep making noise (I sent this thread to Jim Sterling, Yong Yea and Kotaku btw) I'll get a refund but what happens with the rest of the customers? I know for certain other people bought that asset because there were at least 2 more reviews.
     
    SMHall likes this.
  8. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,617
    It could be worth clarifying with them that you don't want a refund because it was deprecated, which is where (I think?) the grace period comes in. You want it because you believe the asset is copyright infringement and should not have been sold in the first place.

    There should not be a "grace period" on that.
     
  9. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    I did, I gave them evidence the asset was stolen and I even insisted by asking "what am I supposed to do with a stolen asset that I can't use". They ignored all that and they only cared about this deprecation rule.
     
    Marc-Saubion likes this.
  10. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,617
    I wouldn't be confident that they actually read it. My general experience is that people often respond to what they assume the issue was, not what is actually written. Nothing they've written there indicates they're even aware of that side of things.
     
    SMHall and AcidArrow like this.
  11. Amon

    Amon

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Posts:
    1,384
    Which is a huge problem..
     
  12. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    Apparently you won't believe me unless I post the whole exchange so here it is.

    This is what I sent:

    They answered this:

    Then I asked for more clarification:

    Then finally they said the same thing:

    I don't know how else you want me to explain this to them. Are you saying they are not reading what I'm writing? am I talking to a bot? they don't need to know of this thread, I explained to them that this asset was stolen in plain english. The simplest explanation is that they just don't care.


    [mod edit: clean up off topic]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2020
    Marc-Saubion and Rewaken like this.
  13. Amon

    Amon

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Posts:
    1,384
    @Kondor0 has been left out of pocket, the seller of the stolen pirated assets is still selling his warez, and seems to be an expert at getting away with it.

    [mod edit: unthread off-topic clean up]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2020
    SMHall, vertexx, Rewaken and 2 others like this.
  14. NicBischoff

    NicBischoff

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Posts:
    204
    Not sure why UT doesn’t sort this issue out now. If it ever went legal they would be dragged into court and the cost would far exceed a few assets. It is also the moral thing to do. Refund all sales of this publisher and mail every dev and let them know the assets were stolen. The risk associated with this is why we don’t buy 3D models from UT.
     
    Rewaken and Martin_H like this.
  15. Sidema

    Sidema

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Posts:
    58
    Well... You remember Pirate Bay? Or any torrent site where you can get links to download stolen stuff?

    IF Unity does not want to get any legal trouble, they have to monitor WHAT they are selling. It's one thing to wait for DCMA, but another thing if something so obviously stolen is sold on the store. Customers tell you that things are stolen with proof on hand, you act. If you get knowledge that you sell stolen items, you get liable.

    Assets GO through a validation process... and this process has to be more strict and more validated. The only question asked to a asset store publisher (when publishing a new asset or a new version of the asset) is: Do you have the right to sell this? You cannot push the publish button, if you don't answer yes.

    Validation must go beyond this. Things have to be curated, validated and checked. If necessary, asset publisher have to be identified more clearly with:
    • ID (if it's a person), or verifiable VAT-ID/Company-ID
    • Real world address
    • Verified bank/paypal accounts
    If an asset is reported being stolen, Unity has to verify the validity of the claims by:
    • Verify the proof of claim
    • Contacting the asset publisher to request clarification
    • Act accordingly by either
      • if claim is proven
        • blocking the asset and/or the asset publisher
        • contact the actual asset owner to enable him to pursue the asset publisher
      • if claim is false
        • informing the person who reported the asset
        • increasing a "false report" counter on that person
        • block the person if "false report" counter hits a threshold limit
    This has to be done ASIDE the actual DCMA procedures.

    This is a business... Customers need to have confidence in the legal validity of purchased asset store items.
     
    Rewaken and Martin_H like this.
  16. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2012
    Posts:
    9,042
    =====================================

    Cleaned up thread removing off topic content.
    Notes:
    1. OP: Please avoid being defensive, you are misinterpreting what others are saying, they are not arguing with you (originally), they are trying to help. Given the responses you got from Unity, it is likely they didn't fully read or understand your full issue. Presumably they get a lot of reports, and sort through them quickly. Being was deprecated they probably sent a standard response. I don't recall who running the asset store service now, but @AskCarol or @UnityMaru can ping them. Given the other responses, it is probably something Unity should provide some guidance on for next steps or policy.

    2. Yes, technically this thread is a dupe and should have been closed, but since staff responded, it was worth keeping the dialog open.

    3. Keep it civil and on topic, and hopefully we will some feedback from staff on this.
     
    LaneFox, Rewaken, Ryiah and 2 others like this.
  17. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436
    Based on the exchange you posted, this is quite possible. I recently was trapped in the perils of Rockstar Games customer support system and had a very disappointing experience. My emails were definitely not being read and it took a certain amount of me expressing my anger to get escalated up to tier 2 support and get an e-mail that I thought sounded hand-written and like someone has read at least one of my mails. I was assured all mails are answered by humans, but I believe that to be a lie because my exchange ended with me giving a lengthy explanation how I solved the issue on my end and some speculations how they could look into fixing the bug that caused the problem on their end, and all I got back was "Thank you for writing back. We apologize for the late response. We understand that the issue still persists. Please perform..." and I thought this support system is a total joke and waste of time that did not help me at all.

    So I wouldn't be surprised if the mails you're getting are sent by a bot as well. Very disappointing though that keywords like "stolen" don't trigger actual human oversight. Or if the did and you still got rejected by an actual person, it's even more infuriating.
     
    zombiegorilla and Ryiah like this.
  18. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    Haha support answered me and told me they will check with the publisher if I can get a refund.

    They just don't get it. This isn't about 8 miserable dollars it's about fixing a problem with the store, I didn't ask the scammer for my refund directly because it's embarrasing to need the permission of a guy stealing assets and it wasn't the point (also what will happen with the rest of the customers? nothing).

    I guess this is a defeat, it's inevitable now that more pirate assets will appear in the store and deprecate everytime they are caught in order to avoid refunds and bad reviews.

    I wish at least we could have a pinned thread to alert users of sketchy publishers since Unity doesn't care. In sketchfab you can leave comments but here we have no good options available.

    EDIT: support confirmed I'm talking to a human (I knew it but I just wanted to confirm it for the people in this thread). Also this is "Asset Store protocol" so not knowing is no longer an excuse, this is Unity policy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
    SMHall, Casper-Chimp, pm007 and 6 others like this.
  19. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Posts:
    3,967
    The policy clearly needs to be changed if it makes it easier for scammers to sell stolen assets than for a paying customer to refund them.
     
    angrypenguin, Ryiah, pm007 and 3 others like this.
  20. GCatz

    GCatz

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Posts:
    282
    if unity wont do anything about this then protect yourself,
    buy only from publishers with portfolio website + real name & real image & personal details
    or even better from someone who is active and well known from this forums
    most of the stolen assets are from random/chinese name accounts with nothing personal within it
     
    Ryiah and Martin_H like this.
  21. LaneFox

    LaneFox

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Posts:
    7,462
    I believe people already have to put an address and a paypal account to get paid, so - just digging a little here - what would you suggest specifically beyond that?

    Another problem is that the sellers aren't really "fake" any more than any other seller is fake - usually just a guy selling out of his apartment in his free time. In TX you don't even need to register a DBA. Obviously if you start rolling in value then you will start a SP or LLC for tax reasons but in general I think as far as 'companies' or 'publishers'/people are concerned there is already basic proofing set in place - even if it is easily to feign. Stacking more verification on top of that will raise the difficulty to enter the space by default - and thats not necessarily a good thing. Some of the biggest sellers now started very humbly and have only grown to the top because the entry bar was at an accessible point to them.

    There should be a distinction about seller verification and content verification though. These are separate issues. And also what should be done when violations exist? Unity's EULA has plenty of room for them to be heavily judicious in dealing with questionable content/sellers. They could put hands on these investigations much more, so how do they do that? What should their motto be in these sorts of instances? What kind of time will that take at scale? Whats the payoff? Interesting things to consider. Obviously the normal human approach isn't always good or fair, so there is a balance to be had between "oh you're questionable, get off our platform" and "well, technically we can't prove anything, and the copyright owner hasn't complained so we don't have to act".

    Seller
    • What practical steps can be taken to ensure that sellers are legitimate sellers?
    • If it is necessary to investigate a seller, what steps can be taken against them if found at fault? For instance if
    • ... Selling in bulk, content that they did not author
    • ... Any of their content being highly questionable in terms of legal authoring
    • ... Accused of issuing smear campaigns on competitors
    • ... etc.

    Content
    • What practical steps can be taken to ensure that sellers are publishing original content?
    • Considering the volume of asset store submissions, are any new steps put in place reasonably efficient so that approval times do not escalate into oblivion?
    • If a seller is investigated for publishing content illegally, what actions should be taken against them? For instance if
    • ... Content was ripped from a game and it is, within reason, identifiable at a glance.
    • ... Content was copied from another seller and is being resold.
    • ... Content is a modified version of something someone else made.
    • ... Content is probably ripped/copied/modified from somewhere else and they did not author it - perhaps heavily modified - but it is obvious that the original copyright owner will never address it.
    • ... etc.
    There are a lot of nuances to solving these problems, especially on a worldwide scale, but there are platforms that already deal with a lot of the same issues that the Asset Store does so there's plenty of context to draw from them when it comes to solving the same problems here.

    My observation is that questionable sellers, questionable activity and questionable content are not tolerated in general and the platforms who do tolerate questionable scenarios are indeed considered to be low quality platforms. It's simply a risk to allow these scenario's to exist, and the payoff is never positive if the platforms allow them to exist.

    To illustrate, if Unity is a mall (what's sold in those stores isn't ours!) then it's still their concern as to what is being sold. If the mall approves a space for a store to exist there, then the store is later found to be smuggling contraband - does that store remain? No, it's a terrible mark on the reputation of the mall. Likewise, Unity's Asset Store platform is no different and it should take a very active role in dealing with these issues. The real questions are *how* it should deal with them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
    QFSW, Socrates, angrypenguin and 2 others like this.
  22. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    A single strike policy should be a good step: if a publisher is found to sell a stolen item and the owner fills the DMCA form that should be enough to ban the entire catalog. This protocol was followed for this publisher but only the reported asset was removed, he's free to seel the rest (not only that, this encourages scammers to have lots of stolen assets in order to make the process harder).
    Also this deprecation rule to stop refunds is arbitrary and benefits scammers, it needs to be removed or changed.

    It's not like we are asking for a magic protection against pirates, just to do something when they are caught.
     
  23. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,617
    I agree with this where there is genuine proof that the vendor was selling stolen stuff.

    However... please consider what happened when YouTube started handling DMCA notices. In short, people were using that system to steal money from legitimate content creators by stealing their original stuff and then filing a DMCA takedown against the creator. The creator's own videos were then de-monetised until the matter was settled while the false claimant was able to monetise the stolen content.


    There's even more nuance here. For instance, it's entirely legitimate for me to sell content that I "did not author" if I've secured the rights to do so, and there are plenty of ways I could potentially do that. They range from paying people to make me stuff to buying defunct studios and selling off parts of their old projects (some of which may, indeed, be recognisable).


    For the sake of clarity I'm not excusing theft or poor policies for handling this stuff. Yes, it's tricky to get it right, but honestly that's a risk you take on board when you start a store.
     
  24. jandanger123

    jandanger123

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Posts:
    5
    Unity support refusing to give a refund in this situation is really shady. I'm not familiar with US law so I'm not going to say it's illegal (although I believe it would be in the UK/EU law) but surely directly profiting (the 30% cut) from pirated assets is not OK under any circumstances? Even worse despite multiple assets from that "publisher" being pirated, the publisher is still allowed to sell assets on the site over a week later?

    As OP said, there should be more verification before things get added to the store. After that any pirated assets that still inevitably slip through the cracks should be refunded and all purchasers immediately notified. Otherwise legitimate devs are unknowingly continuing to use assets that they themselves could get sued over (despite buying it in good faith from the Unity store). It's a lawsuit waiting to happen, either for Unity or a 3rd party dev.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  25. JohnnyA

    JohnnyA

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Posts:
    5,041
    YouTube is not exactly a model of how to do things well, but even if it was, there is such a vast gulf bewteen displaying unlicensed content, and making such content available for your customers to to use in their own IP.

    In the YouTube/DMCA Takedown model its the creator that faces potential loss, and so it is (somewhat) reasonable to put the onus on them.

    In the Unity model its the original creator and every single customer who uses the compromised asset who faces loss (be it reputation damage for using stolen assets, or direct legal action taken by the original content creator).

    ---

    I'm also really not sure Unitys legal stance is legit here: you can't just magic away all of your obligations by writing a waiver.
     
    xVergilx, Martin_H and Ryiah like this.
  26. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    They gave me my refund. Sadly it wasn't because Unity realized their mistake but because the "publisher" allowed it. So now you know, it will be up to the scammer's "good will" if you get your refund because that deprecation rule will make Unity deny you a refund at every time.
    I get that support is probably a third party and they are just following their protocol but who decides this protocol? it must be Unity staff and they are just ignoring this issue because probably from their point of view there's no risk for them only for the users.
     
    SMHall, pm007 and Martin_H like this.
  27. Ryiah

    Ryiah

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Posts:
    20,965
    I would have loved to see the email exchange between them and Unity. :p
     
    xVergilx and Martin_H like this.
  28. BennyTan

    BennyTan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Posts:
    141
    If you've worked with or experience with customer support in other industries you will know that customer support is often outsourced and sucks (its not just unity). This is because once they don't deal face to face with a customer, the only requirement for the job is probably the ability to communicate in basic english. Other then that they more or less are required to follow a checklist/flowchart, sorry, i mean protocol, when handling cases, so you can forget about any independent thought, sorry, i mean critical thinking, technical, legal or what ever knowledge people expect a customer service personnel to have. Not in the check list? Why are you bothering me! Make an "educated" guess! (Educated. haha)

    They are humans... acting like a bot... so that tier 2 support can tell you "yes, you were speaking to a human! Didn't you see the name Mr Chin, sorry, i mean Mr Peterson in the replies you received?"
     
  29. SkysphereLabs

    SkysphereLabs

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Posts:
    2
    yo guys I actually bought one of the assets from this scammer (the HiTech: Cyber Soldier), I didn't know it's stolen from another game. Can someone give me an advice to get my money, back? It wasn't much, but I still would like my money back cause i worked on my game for months now, animated a trailer with this model, made some fancy pics and so on, now my work is nothing worth anymore... damn.. :( thought i made a great deal buying this asset o_O
     
  30. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    Send an e-mail to the scammer/publisher and demand a refund. If they don't give it to you then open a support ticket, if you bought this time ago then you should not be limited by their arbitrary deprecation rule.
     
    SkysphereLabs likes this.
  31. Kondor0

    Kondor0

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Posts:
    601
    Well, would you look at that. The scammer, knowing he's safe of retaliation, is starting to upload more Ghost in the Shell assets:



    EDIT: ha! he deprecated this new asset, I guess that's one way to try to control the piracy here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
    Noisecrime, SMHall, Amon and 4 others like this.
  32. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436
    Unbelievable!

    I really hope Jim and Yong report on this, because realistically I think that's the only thing that's gonna put enough pressure on UT to give enough of a fvck to act on this. =(
     
  33. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Posts:
    3,967
    Yeah after having searched through the store this morning, I can safely say that the situation with stolen assets is completely out of hand. There are SO many stolen assets on the store, I am really surprised that unity are not doing more to control the quality of their store.

    By allowing this to happen it de-legitimises the rest of the asset store and also puts developers AT RISK. Using these assets in your game could make YOU liable despite the fact that unity take a cut of asset store publishers profits.

    Unity, what the hell are asset store publishers giving you 30% for if you are not using it to maintain and police your store?

    Im really shocked that this far into the asset store lifecycle it still has the amount of stolen assets it does, I had thought originally it was just a few but boy oh boy was I wrong.
     
  34. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Posts:
    3,521
    The main thing that bothers me is the refund policy, you need to ask the publisher and unity won't refund anything, the way its marketed at we got you covered is not how it is in practice, I have never been able to get a refund from unity, only from some nice publishers.

    And if publishers that did not want to give a refund, even when it was a double purchase I also could not get a refund from Unity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
    SMHall, Amon and Martin_H like this.
  35. Amon

    Amon

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Posts:
    1,384
    I have a feeling Unity will only take action when someone with lawsuit muscle slaps them. Until then you're taking a risk buying models from the asset store.

    Not refunding people because unity policy does not allow refunds on deprecated items has got to be the most disgraceful policy I've seen on an asset store. Especially when the refund request is for assets that you bought which were illegal to sell.
     
  36. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    Nah, they won't care even with a lawsuit. It's probably more profitable to do absolutely nothing and settle if a lawsuit ever knocks their door (which seems unlikely).

    Look at this : https://www.mediapost.com/publicati...hnologies-reaches-settlement-of-children.html

    The lawsuit started in 2017, and they settled it recently, and yet even today most mobile Unity developers struggle to make their apps not access personal user data.

    Just... avoid the asset store.

    Make deals with asset publishers directly outside the asset store, otherwise, treat as if it doesn't exist. You can still make games without the asset store.
     
    Martin_H and Amon like this.
  37. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436
    Amon likes this.
  38. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    AFAIK in very recent versions (like in the last few months, and GDPR has been around for a while now) the checkbox is gone and instead it’s tied to whether you have the analytics package enabled or not.

    Unity still reaches for user data regardless (since a lot of people are getting rejected by Google and Apple since they detect that the apps people upload are accessing personal data) though it just does not submit them any more, probably.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  39. LaneFox

    LaneFox

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Posts:
    7,462
    I think that we all have to exercise some common sense as well when purchasing assets just like we would when say shopping for shirts or something on Amazon - is the chinese knockoff the same quality as an original item? No, but it costs 90% less and will probably fall apart the first time you wash it. (this analogy may not make sense in some geographic areas of the world)

    The same applies here. $5.99 for a fully rigged AAA 3D character model with zero reviews is extremely sketchy. If people did buy this, it's because they're unfortunately very unaware of the realistic value of high quality original content and are not paying attention to the comparative content offering from more established, reputable brands. In other words, having a lack of perspective.

    So when it comes to risk of piracy on the Asset Store it is definitely worth, as a buyer, looking at the reputation and history of a publisher to determine if something is indeed safe to buy. Synty Studios or Manufactura K4 is not going to publish illegal content and they have a reputation for churning out good original content. At this point, the real concern for them is other artists reskinning their content and trying to sell it on the same platform at a lower price to people who are, as described above, not paying attention to comparative assets and having a lack of realistic perspective.

    I know this doesn't solve any of the refund policy issues on the matter but I think it's good information for anyone using the store to consider. Knowing that illegal content will slide through the cracks periodically and researching/buying with that understanding is important to measuring risk that you expose yourself and your brand to. The situation can certainly improve, but at least in the preset we should keep this in mind.
     
    MadeFromPolygons likes this.
  40. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    So what you’re saying is, stolen content should have higher prices if they want to get away with it. Good to know I guess.
     
  41. LaneFox

    LaneFox

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Posts:
    7,462
    Really missing the point of my post here.
     
  42. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Posts:
    11,631
    What is your point? Use common sense as everywhere else?

    That's wrong. In your amazon example, Amazon would surely refund you if the shirt you bought disintegrated.

    Most other marketplaces have *some* protections in place. Some offer refunds freely, others offer indemnification (cash in case you get sued), others have 1 strike policies.

    Unity's Asset Store does not provide any guarantees at all, refunds are hard to get, copyright owners have a hard time getting pirated copies of their content down (as we've seen in other threads), it's not that we need to be aware that "illegal content slides through the cracks" as you said, because it seems there is no need for illegal content to go through cracks, it can just go through the front door and Unity will welcome it with open arms, gladly take 30% off the sales while going *omg if only there was anything we could do, but sadly there isn't our hands are tied OH NO WOE IS ME*

    I have seen one other store with similar lack of policies, although that one was starved for content, so at least it made some sense. It's not really around any longer. Maybe the Asset Store will follow.

    So, don't "just use common sense" when using the Asset Store, just avoid it.
     
    vertexx likes this.
  43. Martin_H

    Martin_H

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    4,436

    Pretty sure no one is going to sue me for buying a counterfeit t-shirt though...


    This is good advice. When I buy 3D models on other stores I always do a "background check" to see if the artist left a plausible trail of portfolio pieces that a legit freelance artist would leave. Typically those that are legit don't sell a bunch of stuff that is in wildly different themes and styles. I look for a "reputation they wouldn't want to lose" and plausible consistency in their work. Also I google their account name plus "stolen", and have indeed found a post about an asset I was about to buy that pointed out that there were logos from GTA used on some textures. So I had to look for something else.
     
  44. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Posts:
    15,617
    Exactly. The risk with a shop selling counterfeit shirts is to the shop, not to the person buying the shirt. Disney are not going to take legal action against me for wearing a shirst someone else printed their art on. On the other hand they very well may take legal action against me if I have their art in my game, because then I'm using their property commercially without their permission.

    Not necessarily. For starters a major point of stock assets is that they're cheaper because one person makes it and then many people use it. If buying stock assets cost the same or even similar to getting bespoke stuff made then everyone would just do that.

    Some of the examples I raised earlier (such as selling on assets from defunct projects) could be even cheaper, because the development cost is already 100% sunk.

    The broader point about common sense is still valid, though. I'm very much a believer in "if it looks too good to be true then it probably isn't true".
     
  45. BennyTan

    BennyTan

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Posts:
    141
    A strategy he may have is probably to post it up, sell it once or twice, deprecate it, and reupload it again some time later. Just because there are no reviews doesn't mean its not been sold. It just means no one reviewed it.

    Same experience. I've bought assets for which a new version of the asset came out shortly after and it was "buy it again, no refunds". And i've had good experience with publishers whereby i myself was the one who misread or missed out an important point when scanning the asset, yet they still offered me a refund. Its all down to the publisher, Unity doesn't do jack in this case. Except maybe if you make enough noise, put in significant effort and manage to get it escalated, which most people probably won't bother. (its not piracy, but its basically about how Unity handles refunds, which seems to apply to how unity handles cases where a dev bought a pirated asset)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  46. unitedone3D

    unitedone3D

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Posts:
    160
    Hi there! Just a 2 cents.

    I agree that a certain protection from 'accidental buy of nonlegit' product is extremely helpful and procures peace of mind. To use said product without fear of being sued for xyz reason/using that product intentionally (in a commercial product/game) but unintentionally profiting (it is a commercial game that would sell...that used the erring asset(s); you just did not know). It would be great if you we could have that - but, I understand that it is not (always) possible and that a company might decide - you buy something/it is sold as is/you take responsability and the (legal) responsabilities that come with it. For now, I guess we have redouble caution and using common sense when buying asset store products (not just on Asset Store...any marketplace online). As others pointed, I think it is down to the costs (of lawsuits/initation vs doing nothing) and risks (weighting them/like a balance); why an entity might decide, that all in all/alltogether, it's better not (than pursue/whatever action). Sometimes non-action is better because less ripples/collateral-damage/risks.

    And I fully imagine (as it applies to me since I did buy asset store products) that buying assets can make you be/become liable for whatever problem -with said asset (like,..if it's not legit/approved for commercial use with a normal (approved) commercial license for using it in your game - Knowingly). But that's what it is...knowingly; you may have used a product unknowingly that it was not lefit/no commerical use allowed for it. You are not in the wrong, you used intentionally - from the information you knew then; nothing on that webpage where you bought said asset said that it could not be used for commercial purpose - so With That information (which we 'gullibly' swallowed/thinking it was true), we made a choice to buy/use the asset THinking Honestly it was legit/commercial approved for commercial use/with commercial license given to use the asset in our game. That was honest/not criminal or wrong by the actions of buying/using it. Then..later, you find that it was not a legit product for legit use/commercial use...but was stole from a theird party's IP.

    Does this make you bad/dishonest...no, you aer honest you say where you bought it/the vendor..you can forward that info; if they (owner/IP owner) say 'remove the asset from your game'...ok do that/change it to something else. If they say 'you made money/profited from my IP selling your game, that contained it; remove it and pay me'. Then, you will say you bought it honestly/within your good faith/of 'what you knew back then'...(you did not know it was not approved for commercial use; thus...you just did not know...if you knew you would have had th e choice to not use it/buy it..and thus, you would not use it....knowing- it would put your game in jeopardy Right from the start). But, if you don't know...you don't know. If the owner says: ''ok...you didn't know..it's normal...it's someone else that 'sold you' this product...and you just didn't know...remove it from your game and pay me''. Well, tell them you can pay them what you paid in the asset strore, that amount, like a refund, give them a refund if you will....if they say ''punitive damage/you made tons of money (indirectly selling you game using it) 'off the bak of my asset that I never approved you/allowed you or anyone for commercial use' ''; then, tell them you can settle this privately, you are sorry truly..you really did not know and to find an amicable solution; before that happens that is where it is good to have insurance or seek legal advice; because you don't want to go to court for that (too long/expensive); it may cost you to repay the damaged/(seeking damages punition/compensation) owner' since you made money from game selling it and it using said asset.- All Unknowingly - all thinking Everthing Was A-OK..legit... you were honest but you did not know. That in law (I believe) is called 'in good faith/from what you knew then'..with no malice. Just didn't know, thus impossible to know that the asset is not legit; you used 'unknowingly' 'as if' it was legit...that immediately removes you as the Real person that did wrong move (that is the person that sells this asset...and Knows it's not ok/no legit...you are just a 'victim' of the ploy of another; that is different (in law); you did not Willingly/Knowingly 'Participated' in the selling of such non legit asset; you Knowingly/Willingly used it Thinking you were in Rights, withing law/not in crime; that you did not break any law and that you Thought you could use it Commercially in a game....that's what you knew/info you went on.) Unfortunately, we may be in the wrong when we bought that asset and it is not legit asset. That is where you fix it later/earlier you can..but you Can't..if you don'T know/no one mentions it to you...you Think all is ok/because that'swhat you think.

    I think we must not go histerical/paranoiac about being sued (since I'm outside US..I guess my mindset might be more lax/at ease more (but trust me, I'm still thinking of that too; since I have assest; and I do fear that too...that One asset might be not legit for some reason and then I will have to remove it/when someone/IP owner saw it and tells me so; I'll do it and fix it)..but I understand in USA, it's Very common to sue anyone for any thing; like it's something done daily like eating or going to bathroom); that does not happen outside US)..but I understand that precautions are important/being vigilant when buying whatever online (if using for commercial use/like as integrated asset - in a commercial game we made); probably, nothing will happen, you are honest and you will be professional/calm about it; not freak out; seek the owner of IP and try to find a terrain of truce/understanding; it may cost; but you will have done all of this in law/correctly respecting whatever law and you will come out ok. Your game will need adjusting (like removing whatever asset/changing it), adapting to the situation. The saying is : ''Keep Calm..and continue Game Dev''.

    Just a 2 cents.

    - ''If you find yourself in hell....continue walking [in it]'' - W. Churchill
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  47. Amon

    Amon

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Posts:
    1,384
    bump
     
  48. Aviryx

    Aviryx

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Posts:
    97
    I think it is highly disingenuous for Unity to claim they need a DMCA to take anything off the store - specifically in regards to obvious assets stolen from AAA studios. There is an inherent conflict of interest considering they stand to profit from allowing these things to happen until receiving a takedown request from the actual asset owner (so I have to tell Activision their assets are being sold on Unity so Activision can then ask Unity to remove them?)

    Requesting proof for smaller assets or stuff that isn't blatantly stolen is perfectly fine. However, I don't see why it needs to be so roundabout for something like someone selling assets from Cyberpunk 2077. "yeah this is obviously the Johnny Silverhand model of Keanu Reeves... but just to make sure we better wait, let people buy the asset, and see if CD Projekt Red send us a DMCA even though it's 100% obvious this is stolen content."

    This erodes trust in the asset store to the point that myself (and others I know) don't really purchase anything from there because I have no idea if it's stolen from another game, or it's someone else's asset but just re-uploaded and Unity has not been clear about what (if anything) it intends to do in order to reduce this issue.

    The last thing we need is Steam but for assets where it's a wild-west of asset flips, stolen content, and scams.

    I think this ultimately impacts asset sellers the most as they are likely to see a loss of sales due to an eroded trust in the asset store. I understand this is a complex issue but I really hope Unity plans to re-evaluate their position on this and look into other possible solutions that are preventative rather than reactive.
     
    Neto_Kokku, Dott_Dogg and Martin_H like this.
  49. MDADigital

    MDADigital

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Posts:
    2,198
    This is an interesting topic, we have some assets, mainly our main character ones that we have invested thousands of USD in contractors customizing them and ten of thousands counting our own internal team costs.

    What guarantees do unity give here if it turns up these are pirated assets
     
    Amon likes this.
  50. Aviryx

    Aviryx

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Posts:
    97
    I think the only "guarantee" is that they will remove the asset and punish the seller (ban?) if you can prove it. Other than that the only other recourse is the license. You can specify a license that does not allow them to re-sell the asset.

    However, once this has been done the damage is final. Your asset is now on the internet for everyone to use, re-sell, whatever. I really think the only way forward is for Unity to put more emphasis on building a team that curates the asset store better than they currently do. I think preventative, not reactive, solutions are the way forward.

    For example, Unity can't do everything so there should be some guidelines such as:

    - higher priced items required more in-depth checks before being published

    - new accounts selling their first asset should go through a somewhat lengthy "approval" process to stamp out scam accounts before they get a foot hold on the store

    - There should be an option to "report this asset" directly to one of Unity's Asset Store Quality Team (and if they don't have one.... they need a Quality Team for the asset store). This would help reduce blatant theft from AAA games and improve Unity's image.

    - Unity Answers allows user-moderation based on trust, right? People with a high score can moderate/delete posts. There is no "mod application". Why not with the asset store too? Proven asset publishers should be able to temporarily remove an asset from the store until it is reviewed by someone at Unity. Not delete the asset... but maybe the asset is hidden from search until reviewed. I know Unity can not do everything so maybe there is some way for trusted community sellers/members to help them out.
     
    mgear likes this.