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Perpetual license going to be ceased in March 2017?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by newlife, Jan 11, 2016.

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  1. newlife

    newlife

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    Hello I was checking the page https://store.unity3d.com/perpetual and i read this:

    "Support of Unity Pro perpetual licenses with new features, improvements, fixes and services will stop in March, 2017".

    What does it mean? I was going to buy Unity 5.0 perpetual license but this stopped me.
     
  2. N1warhead

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    I would assume that's when the new Unity 6 will be around then - or it will be darn close to it. They are already on 5.4 (betas right now). So that leaves 6 more bigger versions throughout the year.

    Of course I could be wrong - hopefully someone who has more info on this can give you a better idea of what's going on.
    I do however can say that - you don't really *need* pro unless you want to get rid of the logo and have a dark theme and have access to betas.
    Otherwise it's not really worth it unless ur *in general* making over 100 grand a year (in any way shape or form - not just Unity).

    As soon as my subscription is paid for I'm sticking with free until I need to have pro.
     
  3. movra

    movra

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    Unity 4: public release in November 2012; end of life in December 2015 = 3 years
    Unity 5: public release in March 2015; end of life in March 2017 = 2 years
     
  4. Yash987654321

    Yash987654321

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    Unity 6 confirmed?
     
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  5. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    That's about par for the course. A perpetual lisence gives you all upgrades for the current major version. You'll need a new lisence for the next version. Typically the upgrade lisences are offered cheaper, but there are no promises.

    Of course you can continue to use 5.x pro forever without upgrading. It's perpetual in that sense.
     
  6. movra

    movra

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    I think Unity will also drop perpetual licenses altogether. The subscription-only model (Software as a Service) experiment has done wonders for Adobe's revenue. Unity probably came to the same conclusion.
     
  7. kenlem

    kenlem

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    They sent around a survey to pro users awhile back and it was pretty easy to tell from the questions that they were doing away with perpetual licenses and would be moving to one single product subscription with all platforms and all features included. The real purpose of the survey was to fine the price point which ranged from $75 to $250 a month.
     
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  8. movra

    movra

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    Huh, didn't get the memo. What are the perks for the $250 versus the $75?
     
  9. Ryiah

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    I'm betting it was along the lines of "Do you want subscription to cover all platforms or can we charge $75 each?".
     
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  10. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    aka "avoid adobe like the plague, and talk shiet about them whenever i can" (imo)
    ... how is it good? seems all around crappy to me...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  11. darkhog

    darkhog

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    Yes, perpetual, flat fee should be always an option.
     
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  12. newlife

    newlife

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    Adobe is selling its plans at a much lower price:

    all Adobe apps + 20GB of cloud storage 50$ per month,
    photoshop + 20GB of cloud storage 20$ per month,
    photoshop only 10$ per month.

    The equivalent Unity plan of 50$ Adobe plan (all Adobe apps + 20GB of cloud storage) is Unity Pro + Unity Android Pro + iOS Pro which is 225$, almost 5 times of Adobe plan.

    This mean that instead of paying 4500$ one-time payment (Unity Pro, Android Pro, iOS pro), I have to pay 225$ per month for all my life as unity professional developer.
    1 year -> 2700$
    2 years -> 5400$
    3 years -> 8100$
    4 years -> 10800$

    Doesn't seem to be really fair.
     
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  13. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    Adobe is also cancel and continue any time isn't it? I also dislike all subscription based things when the cost is more than 10-20 dollars per month and like to pay up front...
     
  14. kittik

    kittik

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    I really hope they change their minds. I have a perceptual license currently and would get one for Unity 6. I hate subscriptions, feels like another tax. I wouldn't pay for a subscription unless I was making big money through Unity.
     
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  15. LaneFox

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    If they're changing the pricing/sub model then thats their prerogative, its their business. I think most people are just disappointed in the way the current sub model is setup and dread having to be forced into that versus just buying their licenses.

    Subscription models are significantly easier to manage and deliver content for. Adobe has fair prices for excellent software with no headaches, they did it right. On the other hand Autodesk has insane prices, buggy software and an abysmal website interface. Hopefully if UT does go with sub-only then they can make it a simple enough system that everyone will be okay with it.
     
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  16. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    I have a Perpetual License of Unity 5 Pro. I largely view all software licenses as various types of subscriptions, because most serious developers will pay for the latest version instead of trying to use an outdated perpetual license indefinitely. So in that way, I view the Unity Pro perpetual license as a 24 month subscription license.

    I have nothing against a subscription model in general, but I don't like Unity's subscription model terms. One problem is the 12 month lock with the subscription. It really needs to be a start and stop anytime model. This is especially true for businesses that hire contractors. The other problem is the price, especially when looking at the Pro mobile add-ons. If you need Unity Pro for iOS and Android, the subscription costs $225 per month. Combine that with the 12 month lock, and it is not a viable option for most people.

    A lot of people have mentioned these two issues repeatedly, so both of these issues are well known to everybody at Unity. Before considering the demise of the perpetual license, Unity needs to deal with the two main problems with their existing subscription model.
     
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  17. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    If Unity really goes subscription only and the perpetual Unity 5 licenses can still be used in the future, I would consider buying a Unity 5 pro license towards the end of its lifecycle and not following future Unity versions as long as it is feasible for me. I am strongly opposed to the subscription only path that the software industry is taking and will stubbornly resist it as long as I can. I would really prefer if buying a perpetual license remained an option for future Unity versions, even if the perpetual license was more expensive than keeping the monthly subscription around for a whole product cycle.
     
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  18. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Sure and Unity wanted this. The problem is, what stops people using free to develop then just spend for a month's worth just to release?

    One thing I hate (which I suspect most people haven't encountered but I have) is the royalty model. People love it because they don't finish jack S***. They think it's cool but forget royalties require privacy invasion, regular time out gathering data and sending out payments, and it never stops. Ever, unless your game is pulled. That also isn't something you mess a company like Unity about on, or you risk going to court.

    Frankly it's the lack of having to pay royalties that keeps me in Unity. I would need an amazing system that removes the stress from my mind. I'd much prefer a sub over royalties, any day of the week, period.
     
  19. kenlem

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    No, the survey was pretty clear that they were moving to an all platforms, all features type of license. They were just trying to figure out the price point of what that should be, $75, $150 or $250 a month.
     
  20. elbows

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    Software version numbers don't work this way. There is no reason why you can't have a version 5.10, 5.11 etc. I don't predict that will actually happen with Unity because they tend to release a major new version long before they get to that high a minor revision number.
     
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  21. N1warhead

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    Well I was just saying, because once Unity 5 came out - Unity 4 Licenses could not be purchased anymore.
    So it would make sense that 2017 march, it would be Unity 6.
    They usually get to new version every couple years it appears as one guy up top said, Unity 4 was 2 years, this year would be Unity 5 2nd year as well.But nevertheless all we can all agree on is if Unity 6 will be so awesome! lol.
     
  22. newlife

    newlife

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    The problem is that the price tag is way too high (5 times adobe price tag, which is considered high by users).
    Not only, you are going to pay more than the perpetual license in less that 2 years, while with adobe you need more than 3 years.
     
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  23. Devil_Inside

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    I don't remember seeing any surveys regarding this issue... When exactly was it sent out?
    I don't like the subscription model so this is kind of worrisome.
     
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  24. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Also, since there is a full featured free version, it can't really be compared to Adobe's model. Sure you can stop your Adobe sub at any time, but the software also stops working if you do.
     
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  25. hippocoder

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    It's not an easily solved problem without royalties, but I'm OK with the royalty model being the standard ** IF ** it was very distinct and separate from just being able to license Unity pro outright at current rates.

    Unity doesn't mail everyone. Unity mails who they feel they need data from. That wasn't you this time, or you didn't opt in, or whatever. They have over a million accounts, it would be fairly trash data, it's not personal and you did not miss out.

    Unity also listens to forums etc - @Aurore sometimes gathers lots of data for them. Don't know if she still does or not, I picture her as this rapidly teleporting task creature with at least 100 tentacles, capable of doing all things at the same time.
     
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  26. LaneFox

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    Ek, didn't think of that. Totally true.
     
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  27. Moonjump

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    Seems odd that they only asked Pro users. Don't they want to know what would entice free users to become paying ones? Currently relatively few users are paying quite a lot, just like any other free-ro-play option. I had no problem with paying $400 for iOS Indie back as they had back then, but find the Pro costs too much, especially as a mobile developer.

    The perpetual licence is currently the better option because long term you end up paying less because upgrade fees are lower than a new purchase. The window between the 12 months minimum and the crossover point means subscription is currently not a great choice financially.

    A subscription on reasonable terms would be OK, but not on the current terms.
     
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  28. Tomnnn

    Tomnnn

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    Didn't seem to bother unreal :cool:
     
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  29. elias_t

    elias_t

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    I vote against the subscription only model.
    If they go this route they might lose me as a customer.

    If they consider the allegorithmic approach* then it would be ideal.

    *You start with subscription and after an amount the license becomes perpetual.
     
  30. Aabel

    Aabel

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    Their business model is designed to get developers on the back end. If you aren't making money with the engine, you are not on Epic's radar. You start making money then you are going to pay, and pay every time you make money with the product you developed with their technology. For people who are just screwing around as a hobby, this is fine. For people trying to make a living this is scary.

    If I was going to use Unreal, I would want a paid license for the project.
     
  31. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah but it bothers me. It's specifically why I don't use UE4.

    Both Unity and UE4 have more power than most people need. People only think that Unity is lacking, but in reality they use Unity badly, and if they went to UE4 would end up using that badly too. These modern engines are OP for a small developer.

    So it comes down to how well an engine fits with your own situation, and mine is I need less stress, not more. Unity is less stress.
     
  32. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    adobe sucks cause,
    you can have works that you cant even access because they require the programs to open them
    ... thats straight up BS

    i guess unity pro isnt quite like that...
    still.. just sucks..

    ideally, if i bought unity pro i want a box with paper manual
    whatever happened to that? ..

    its fair, agree!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  33. Aabel

    Aabel

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    Paper documentation is wasteful of resources, both environmental and financial, it also can not be updated without incurring those financial and environmental costs for each update.

    It's GOOD thing that there are no paper docs anymore. Of course if you want you can print them out yourself and limit the cost to just you and not all of the Unity user base.
     
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  34. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    It could be a huge new revenue source for Unity. What if a million more Free/Personal users paid for a Unity Pro subscription even one time per year? It would be solid revenue for Unity.
     
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  35. Dustin-Horne

    Dustin-Horne

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    It works for Adobe because Adobe also doesn't offer a free version. The only way this would work for Unity is if they didn't offer the free version and the editor was completely disabled without a valid subscription, so you could halt the subscription but couldn't use the editor again until you re-started your subscription.

    So, you're correct... Unity can't both do this and offer a free version. What would people rather have more? Access to a free version or a start-stop subscription model? I think a lot of pro subscribers would want the latter while free users of course would prefer the former. There's no way they can keep everyone happy.

    While I have no problem with subscription models, I like there to also be a perpetual model. But, another way to look at it is based on pricing. The subscription model right now is priced as to be comparable (but slightly higher) than the perpetual model.

    If Unity does away with the perpetual model completely, they very likely will be able to offer the subscriptions at a lower price point. Keep in mind that by March of 2017, IL2CPP will likely be rolled out to all platforms, eliminating the need for Xamarin licensing. This means less cost for Unity to have to pass along giving them that ability to price lower and most likely there will not be additional subscription costs for mobile platforms since Unity won't be on the hook for the additional licensing, but that last bit is purely speculative (albeit with factual basis).
     
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  36. Dustin-Horne

    Dustin-Horne

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    This as well. Subscriptions are much more predictable than perpetual licenses. They even out revenue over a period of time and make accounting and budgeting easier.
     
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  37. recursive

    recursive

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    The trick with Unreal is there's plenty of A, AA, and AAA studios buying large royalty-free licenses that subsidize the costs for other users, plus they're owned by a fairly large Chinese company, plus everything @Aabel pointed out.

    Unity's model is that the paid users pay some per-seat for priority service to subsidize the costs for the free users.

    I'm also of the opinion I want as much money out of a released title as possible, I'm already looking at dealing with or have already dealt with:
    * Platform holder cut
    * Profit Sharing / Royalty / Publisher / Investor cuts
    * Taxes!
    * Contractors - per item, milestone, or hourly
    * Employees (contract or permanent)

    If the resultant title becomes even modestly popular, the cost sink of Unity beats out the back-end royalties of Unreal after a certain point, because the Unreal one will scale with your revenue, while the Unity one will scale with your developer headcount.

    I'm more than willing to pay between $150 - $250 for an "all inclusive" unity license for all platforms. It keeps feature and debugging folks paid at Unity and I have one less variable payment to worry about. It's also likely that if the all-inclusive subscription takes off, they could readily adjust the price like Adobe did.
     
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  38. hippocoder

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    Not really, because pretty much nobody finishes anything.
     
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  39. zombiegorilla

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    But on the flip side, it could also cut into existing revenue. People who would have normally bought pro, instead only bought a one month. Of course, Unity knows more about it's user base than any of us do, but my guess would be that it wouldn't convert a lot of people, even if it were only for a month. Usually (at least with games), there is usually a hard split between people who pay and those who don't at virtually any price point. There would really be no need to use pro (under 100k) except for splash screen. I doubt many would pay the $75-225 to remove the splash screen. Really, it wouldn't be even a one time, because most games are constantly updated, so they would have to pay every month they updated. To echo Hippo's comments, it seems like a lot of extra work. But, I dunno.

    --

    I don't really have a horse in this race. I haven't personally purchased pro in a few years, and I doubt corporate pricing will change significantly (even if it does, Unity is wicked cheap compared to other tools and expenses). I will probably release a game personally in the future, but I wouldn't use anything that uses royalties, and would prefer perpetual, just for ease. But that is a couple of years out, the landscape may have changed by then.
     
  40. Kiwasi

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    What you are suggesting is effectively a one time payment to remove the splash screen during the build process. There is no other reason to have a on/off pro subscription. There are forum users that have said they will pay this. I doubt it would be a million users.
     
  41. movra

    movra

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    Actually Unity 4 was supported for 3 years. Unity 4.7 came out last December.

    With Unity 5's life ending after just 24 months compared to Unity 4's generous 37 months my decision to keep Unity 5 Pro is just getting worse. Should have taken up the offer to refund it back when feature parity was announced.

    The only way to redeem my poor judgement for this purchase is to start earning over $100k. Better start working on that instead of moping all day.
     
  42. Ryiah

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    That's about the same thing in the end. We've had discussions about combining Android and iOS into one payment which is basically what the $150 tier is. Most of the discussions are buried in that massive UE4 thread.

    We've had people ask if they could pay a small monthly fee for the dark skin and/or to remove the splash screens.
     
  43. Yash987654321

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    lol what else is left?
     
  44. angrypenguin

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    The income cap. And that can't be removed unless we want Unity to become a charity.
     
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  45. Tomnnn

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    I guess that's why it doesn't bother me :p You're giving away a lot of money if you make a lot, but you also still made a lot of money. I don't see the problem. You're also giving them a great cash flow not dependent on your financial situation so they can keep improving things.

    I haven't used either in months, and that's not just because I don't have time for it right now. I want to do some basic 2d games and I think an engine more complex than LWGJL is overkill for what I have in mind.
     
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  46. angrypenguin

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    The catch is how much you have to spend to make it. It's easy to look at broad figures and say "eh, $15k out of $300k isn't the end of the world, I still have $285k!", but that doesn't reflect the reality of a real world budget.
     
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  47. chingwa

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    The subscription model, at least at the indicated price point ($75/month) is ridiculous. As a long-time Unity user who invests in upgrade pricing for the pro license at every major release, I'm much more interested in buying a license that I can then use in perpetuity. For around $700 I can get the major version upgrade which I can expect will last a minimum of 2 years until the next upgrade (and also retains it's value if I decide not to upgrade). I would anticipate any realistic subscription model to fall in line with this, with an absolute max of $30/month. $75/month turns into nearly $1000/year. Insane. :(
     
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  48. bluescrn

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    That's way too soon, IMHO. If anything, 5.x needs a longer lifespan than 4.x, as it's taking so long to recover from the switch to Enlighten, amongst other things.

    The worst thing that Unity could do now is try to introduce more big features/changes/selling points for a new product. The focus needs to be on stability and performance.

    (And maybe they should remind themselves how many Unity Pro users are targeting mobile - completely unable to make use of any shiny super-high-end graphics features in a real-world mobile product?)
     
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  49. Wild-Factor

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    If Unity goes to subscription model, I will work with the community version until the last moment.
    Don't see why I should accept paying 3 times the price I previously paid.
     
  50. ippdev

    ippdev

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    50 bucks a month for all platforms. Hit the 1500 mark and you can still open the editor and work. Pay 1500 up front or double 50 dollar payments when revenue is good to reach the 1500 if you wish. Don't screw up folks credit rating by making it a have to pay or else framework. I personally have worked on a few projects and got paid only after chasing the client or they just up and disappeared and refused to be return emails etc. Or.. as of now I have a client that refuses to pay because of Unity bugs making .01% of the app not working as per contract. So..I get double hit by a non paying client and having my credit screwed and my account handed to some brutal collections agency. Not good PR. Ricatello needs to not use the EA milk them to death model.
     
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