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PC Game Design and Creation Challenge 2!

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by Deleted User, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Deleted User

    Deleted User

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    Simple as this, you need a clear goal. The bigger it is, the more you need a clear goal to the finish line.. Or spend years going around in circles going nowhere quickly.

    Biggest piece of advice, don't overthink it.. Just DO! You can procrastinate on every little matter and it amounts to 0. I've done it, I've seen tons and tons of dev's do it and it again ultimately they got nowhere.

    One thing, when play testing a game. You have to differentiate between testing a system too much and it being fun, some systems that were originally fun won't be after the 100th time. The worst thing you can do is scrap it...

    Keep going until the game is done, THEN play test it as a whole. If everything fits together and it's what you wanted, you're on to a winner.
     
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  2. frosted

    frosted

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    ARPG is a pretty cool genre.

    In terms of making a demo or prototype, I think a small version (the first act, like the D3 beta) is a goal that is achievable.

    IMO, the most important thing here (aside from good upgrade options and awesome skills) is the general feel of the combat. I think the reason that D3's combat feels so much more fluid than PoE is because of the responsiveness of the targets. D3 has a much more sophisticated ragdoll / particle / animation system than PoE IIRC. This is a big part of why D3's skills feel much more awesome. If you look at impact effects in PoE they're shockingly static in comparison.

    Trying to achieve something close to D3's impacts is a big challenge. One of the things I've had the most difficulty with in my own game is dealing with combat animations and interactions (and this is in a friggin turn based rpg). There are a lot of factors, including damage types interacting with targets, certain kinds of attacks producing certain kinds of executions, good ragdoll transitions, etc. Maybe it's just a lack of experience on my part - but getting impact to feel right with a lot of meaningful variation in the abilities is likely really really tricky.

    ___
    EDITED: I mixed up ShadowK and ShadowX. Whups!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  3. Deleted User

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    @frosted

    You're not mixing us up are you? I'm ShadowK and he's ShadowX, he wins in Join date but I'm before him in the alphabet. So it's one point all around.. (Although I sound a bit more like a breakfast cereal)..
     
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  4. frosted

    frosted

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    lol! Honestly, I thought there was just a glitch where sometimes your avatar wasn't showing up. I was sort of wondering why you were doing a massive genre swap!

    My bad guys, sorry!
     
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  5. Billy4184

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    Lol I confused them as well (not in a reply though), thought my crappy connection couldn't load the avatar before I realised the last letter was different :D
     
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  6. MartasX

    MartasX

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    Haha. I'm sorry for the confusion guys. . I tried to change my nickname before joining this event but unfortunately it is not possible.

    @ShadowK I think you are winning(by far) in game dev. experience as well ;)

    @frosted Even though it wasn't directed to me, thanks for the feedback :D
    I know it is big task so there is no way I could come close to D3 style in those couple months. As I'm more programmer then graphic guy I might use some 3rd party assets to help me. I'm close to finishing my GDD so I will have better idea of what needs to be done.
     
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  7. frosted

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    Just keep in mind, looking at D3's impact effects -- there's a lot going on under that hood and all of it is very well executed. I wouldn't be surprised if D3's impact visual effect system is, overall the most sophisticated ever built. Don't be disheartened if you need to target something simpler like PoE's, that's still a great game. Coming close to PoEs combat feel would still be quite an accomplishment!
     
  8. Deleted User

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    I've got a question, whilst the core concepts of this challenge is pretty much the same no matter what you do. I don't use Unity, not even for prototyping anymore. So whilst some of the examples I might give contains logic applicable anywhere, it will never be like for like when facing challenges specifically with Unity.

    Being honest, only reason I'm still here is because the community rocks!. Is this an issue?
     
  9. Deleted User

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    I'll take it from the lack of replies nobody cares, want to have a quick check in before we continue. Are we all still interested in the challenge?
     
  10. Billy4184

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    I'm still in, although from now on it will be a side project and not full time. Since this is a pretty big undertaking for me at this stage I need to keep time available for smaller projects with shorter turnaround that I know I'll be able to finish (i.e., mobile games).

    I'm very committed to the first month, since my long term goal is to be a better programmer and the gameplay demo is very good for bettering my programming skills. However, when it comes to creating art and building the rest of the levels I don't know how long that will realistically take or whether I'll have the time to do a decent job in the timeframe given.

    Since I'm assuming most people here are only working a few hours on their project every day, I'll try to do that for the duration of the challenge and see if I can keep up.
     
  11. Billy4184

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    I just have to say, there seem to be more 'mentors' than horses at this racetrack, is that really a good thing? From some of the people here I'm not really certain whether they are taking part or hanging around to offer help. It might be a good idea to do a headcount of people who are actually doing the challenge, i.e., 'like this post if you will be taking part'
     
  12. frosted

    frosted

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    I'm down to participate in whatever way works.
     
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  13. Deleted User

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    Well ultimately it doesn't matter what point you're at in your game (bar finished), in some cases it can just be thought of as a re-draft or a checklist / challenge process. So I actually thought there would be more people contributing, which is surprising? Maybe there just aren't that many people doing our sorts of games? Usually Vet's like to get involved in something tasty so not sure.

    It does actually take time to run a challenge like this, harder than I thought.

    Anywho, I'll keep it going. We've only covered the first week, I'll keep it running. I'll get my draft out for Monday(ish)..
     
  14. Billy4184

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    To be honest, I think the issue is the amount of commitment and the long time-frame. The challenge probably sounds good but most people are probably working full-time and have that big personal project eating up their spare time. So they just take a look and think that it doesn't fit anywhere into their schedule. So all they could possibly do is enter their pet project into the competition.

    Which will never happen. People probably see associating that personal masterpiece (which of course is already started, is at some undetermined but advanced stage of development and somehow doesn't fit the criteria) into any sort of challenge or competition as a bit of a negative thing. They want the limelight on their project and don't want it to be a runner-up to anyone else. It is like asking Da Vinci to enter the Mona Lisa into a local art competition.

    My advice is the same as before. Simplify the competition, break it into small chunks, make it something people can get done quickly and without having to invest too much resources into. Make it something that people could realistically call 'practice'. I would go with the first month gameplay demo only as it is the most likely for people to end up achieving. All that effort it takes for the other stuff like high quality art and level creation is something that many people probably outsource and/or find to be a grind (like me) and are things that you would only want to do for something you were absolutely invested in (i.e., that big personal project that doesn't fit into this sort of competition).

    Last thing is momentum. Looking at 6 months of hard labour is not something someone does lightly, and it would definitely make it easier if the commitment at the start was relatively small.
     
  15. Deleted User

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    It'll never happen for these types of games, if were looking for a small chunk framework for beginners then GIGI's challenges would be far more suitable as it pretty much covers a lot of the concepts anyway. It wasn't the point to double up on his efforts, also I'm not sure how it can be chunked up so it's reasonable.. The time line is actually relatively short.

    What were essentially doing is a concept of an 18 Month - 3 Year game, from start to finish.. Going through what it's actually like to go from start to an end goal / or just discussing it.

    Honestly I do understand that many who can do this, probably either won't participate because they're using there own engine or another engine, are too busy to even look at the forums and / or perfectly content with how things are going and don't need to. If people are concerned about their own masterpiece there's a problem, no games are ever "finished" in the eyes of developers or masterpieces until a wide market deems it so.

    As always, I just wanted to share the adventure and see if anyone else wanted to go in it with me. We could have some good chats about certain components and see what comes out of the other end. The structured approach was nothing more than a request IMO I'd presume if you're even attempting to do a game in this vein, you have the necessary experience to guide yourself through most of the process anyway. Or GIGI's challenges are probably again the better course of action..

    Albeit I'm always willing to assist..

    I suppose ultimately I wasn't looking to do this in the format of a challenge, more of a design collaboration.!
     
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  16. frosted

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    I think it might actually be worthwhile to look at a slightly different angle. It might be a bit unrealistic for people to begin a project that potentially spans 6+ months specifically to join in.

    Instead, perhaps something more of an open ended design collaboration / game clinic. Where people can join in wherever they are in the project, as they wish. Maybe have some outline for what exactly someone needs to bring at a given milestone, to help give it more structure.
     
  17. Billy4184

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    Well I just think people would be hesitant to jump into something that sounds like commitment. Most devs including me are probably aware how on/off commitment can be, especially with regards to a large project, and don't want to let themselves in for something they aren't sure they can finish.

    I'm not trying to be critical at all of developers' attitudes, I just think that for many people their big personal project is their 'baby' and the idea of submitting it into a competition for the objective assessment of other people is not easy for them to do. These projects are always 1 month away from being ready for the eyes of the world, and the idea is so original that everyone will instantly clone it and undermine the project. Just the way it is and I certainly feel those vibes myself sometimes, although I'm trying to become more objective and 'business oriented' lately.

    To succeed I think you have to find a way to abstract the competition into some sort of learning class or practice rather than a place for people to expose their pet projects and problems to everyone.

    Something that just came to me: why don't you hold short competitions on specific things such as:
    • Developing a 30 second tech demo to the best of your ability;
    • Developing a combat character controller with a range of specific animations;
    • Developing a small environment with a day/night cycle;
    • Developing a simple procedural generation terrain system;
    • etc
    In short, attack some reasonably advanced topic in a short timeframe and in a practice/competition setting.
     
  18. Deleted User

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    I get ya, simply put I don't have time for it.. After all I do have a game to ship of my own which has just recently been vetted and approved by all involved so that's me tied for the next many moons.
     
  19. MartasX

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    Just for clarity I'm the other Shadow ;)
    I'm still in as well. I'm not sure if I will be able to follow the "dead lines" but wanna give it a shot.

    I have to say that I was a little bit disappointed by @ShadowK post but on another side this "Challenge" is not suppose to be Unity101 so I don't see any problem if he using different engine.

    I'm finishing my GDD at the moment and starting working on the prototype. Hopefully in next few weeks I'll have something to show/play.
     
  20. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

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    So, this is to say you're a shadow of a shadow?

    ...I'll see myself out.
     
  21. MartasX

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    I would prefer shadow the first :D
     
  22. frosted

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    I'm not sure who you had in mind. But if it was me, that's absolutely not the case.

    I could still use play testers, feedback and assistance. I just don't know if it's appropriate for me to try to use this thread to provide that stuff. I'm kind of selfish, I just want to leverage this as a tool to improve my game.

    But I didn't want to discourage others from joining up, since my project has been in the works for a while and it wouldn't be an even starting position. So I guess only half selfish.
     
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  23. Billy4184

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    Not at all, you posted a lot of great stuff about your project. I was referring to why more people hadn't joined. It is just a general thing that I've noticed, and I hear it often as a reason why devs fail to get early feedback/do proper marketing, just this mentality of 'knowing' that they are sitting on the next great thing in gaming, afraid to share info early as they feel that others will rush to copy it, and think that all they have to do is unleash the game onto the world and everyone will just buy it. It seems to me this is a reason why it would be hard for people to enter their pet projects into a competition.

    I know I've felt it before, and recently I've made a strong effort to change my mentality and realize that there is very little worth in the idea and everything in the execution. That's one of the reasons I joined the thread, because I felt that it was a good way to prove to myself that I wanted to take criticism and make a game that worked rather than live in my own world where my game was always great.
     
  24. Deleted User

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    Well I moved over about 8 months ago now, all our prototypes and bit's n' pieces have been moved. So as much as I enjoyed using Unity it's pointless to even have on my PC now..

    But it's not like I'm a Unity Noob, I did spend three years with it when I was making games in my spare time. Plus I've been working on games / engines for over a decade so again. I'm sure I have something to offer somewhere..
     
  25. MartasX

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    I probably didn't make that clear in my post but this is exactly what I meant :rolleyes:
     
  26. Tsukubane

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    Might be a little late to ask but how to create a plan for game?
     
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  27. Deleted User

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    What a game design document? Planning really, you list out EVERY component from head to tale with an estimated time frame. You'll adjust the design doc as you do a phase 1 prototype + addition, you then fit that into the games allotted time frame. You can calculate roughly the amount of time it'll take tasks to do for a complete product..

    Once phase 1 prototype is completed, you have a rigid document that you stick to. No scope creep or anything of the sort, then you enter the laborious phase of add and repeat until the game fits together.
     
  28. frosted

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    As a side note - how are peoples projects coming along?

    Even if this thread isn't getting a lot of love, I'm pretty certain that people are still working on stuff.
     
  29. Billy4184

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    I'm making mobile games and freelancing as an artist. Not afraid to say that I extended myself a bit too much there, it was always possible but if I'm going to eat ... I'll probably work on it here and there and maybe at some point knuckle down for a few months to get it done.
     
  30. Deleted User

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    Yup, putting a city together.. It's a lot of work :D. But it's coming together nicely.
     
  31. Tsukubane

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    What part of the challenge should we be at?