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Paypal warning! - do not use paypal for large transactions you will get ripped off!!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Chaoss, Jun 19, 2012.

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  1. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    ...AND you will lose your Paypal account

    I caved and purchase the Unity Pro 4 pre-order, I went through the store and then used Paypal (I always use Paypal for buying things online) and the transaction appeared to complete, got my license number all was good.... or so I thought. about an hour later I get an email from Paypal

    "Your account has been limited until we hear from you."

    Oh right, what ever I think, until I get a second email

    "36P322349G9037511 Payment Reversed" WTF this isn't right. I check my bank and the funds have been earmarked to go out, Checked the email it is the Unity transaction that has been reversed, yet my money is ear marked to go out of my bank (I can't use that money, in the UK money gets earmarked to leave the account its like its gone, but it still shows a balance, but the available balance shows as if the moneys gone).

    So I call Paypal, not only have they blacklisted my bank account and "I can never use that account on their systems again" but my money has been earmarked to leave my account (meaning it will vanish in a few days, bank can't do anything until it's gone) and my Paypal account is limited so I cannot send money to anyone, or withdraw the money.

    I have called Citizens Advice Bureau and they have written me up a legal notice to send to Paypal (I will go and collect it tomorrow) but apparently a lot of people have been having problems and Paypal has been illegally withholding money (Illegal in the UK anyway). So far people have gotten there money back after 6 months IF THEIR LUCKY.

    I am NOT pleased, that was money I could bearly afford to pay out, but I like Unity so much I decided to bite the bullet and go for it. I'd feel the dent in my bank account for a month and have to pay off the overdraft but meh, it's a one off purchase for (i hope) 2 years. Now I have no money and no Unity :mad:

    So if your thinking of purchasing a Unity license, or infact anything else I strongly advice you DO NOT use Paypal

    I am not some Paypal hater (of which I have just found out there are many) I always found Paypal to be useful, and saved my putting in my card details all the time. I've only once had someone get into my account and it was resolved within days and the money returned, this was a year ago. But now after this and after finding out what they've done to other people I'll never be using them again :mad:

    I don't even know what to do in regards to Unity now, I'm going to be stuck with the free version :mad:
     
  2. henry96

    henry96

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    OMG! I hope you'll be able to withdraw all ur balance soon.
     
  3. Khyrid

    Khyrid

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    I don't know how much power this "citizens advice bureau" has, but if that happened to me in the US I would be getting myself a lawyer. As this is happening to many people I would also consider a class action lawsuit.
     
  4. fanjules

    fanjules

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    I've been using PayPal for years without major problems, though there was a spate of reversals for my players a year ago or so. On that occasion it was the bank that saw the money going to PayPal and automatically assumed it was bad "OMG - paypal - panic!!". In the case of my players they saw the money going "out", and couldn't understand why PayPal had listed it as "reversed", despite them being in full communication with their bank and PayPal. Eventually what happened was that the money reappeared in their bank account and it was reversed, yet they were stuck without my game... so both buyer and seller (me) were left without any way to do business.

    Hopefully in your case it's just a mistake and it will eventually be resolved. As I say, I believe PayPal is fine as long as you only deal with PayPal, but since your bank was involved that's always where things seem to go downhill.

    I bought Unity Pro + Android Pro + iOS Pro all on PayPal, but I did so with funds that were already in my PayPal account, not with them having to be taken from a card or bank account first. Though I have to say this is the first time I've seen any problem with the money going via a bank account (presumably by direct debit) - my experience was limited to problems where the money is passed to PayPal via a credit card.
     
  5. Morning

    Morning

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    It's overall not advised to use paypal for large sums unless you're a business. It's not rare to hear paypal accounts getting blocked/limited after sending/receiving large amounts of money. Their support is weird too. Sometimes they will help but other times they will lock you out of the system.
     
  6. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    If you earn into your paypal more than X then paypal think you're being fishy earning money dodgily without paying tax and other stuff. I understand why they limit your account and you can remove these limits if you supply paypal with proof of yourself, you need to send them bank notices, national insurance, passport images ect. I know because ive had a similar problem and it ended in paypal sending me solicter slips threatening to send me to court because of a problem on there side :) They're c***s if im honest, but there isn't many like them we can use so we have too.

    Owh did I mention, whatever money is in your account once they lock it THEY get to keep, they just bottle that money up and get interest on your earnings, great huh?
     
  7. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Thanks for the warning. But are you saying you tried to overdraft your account? (To me this means you would not have enough to cover the initial transaction)... I'm not sure I understand.

     
  8. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    Yeh we don't really have that over here, besides even If we did I now don't have the money to initiate a law suit anyway.

    I am extreamly annoyed, no Unity and no money, and to top it off no Paypal account which means no Ebay. All my subscriptions go through Paypal, so those will all bounce. I have my web host, dedi servers and the lot that use Paypal for subscriptions. I have to go through them all now and
    add my debit card manually and hope I don't miss any.

    My bank lets me overdraft to -£2000 and had an available balance of £1571.89 so yes, there was more than enough to clear it.

    I have called Paypal they are addiment that the fault is mine, I am now locked out of my Paypal account (well I can still log in but can't do anything, except funnily enough "receive money" isn't blocked, however "sending money" is. My bank MAY be able to help once the money has gone and they may be able to reverse it themselves but they are not sure until the money has left.

    Citizens Advice Bureau has quite a bit of power here, they can write letters, phone people, give advice, call people on your behalf, legal advice and offer free lawyers. The woman I spoke to said because Paypal is an American company it will be a lot harder to take action. She also said she has had 9 calls about Paypal just today from others with similar problems, she said if they were a UK based company they'd have had all there assets seized and have been closed down years ago for fraudulent withholding of money.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  9. Khyrid

    Khyrid

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    Did you talk to your bank? Did they tell you anything about the state of your money? You got to watch out for banks, they will try to fine you for all kinds of things. I had a secondary checking account with a balance of a few hundred dollars, I went to join the US Navy and because I didn't do anything with the account I was charged fees, like inactivity fees, I ended up with a negative balance which I refused to pay, I talked to a legal adviser in the navy and he resolved the issue but I ended up with a zero balance. Moral is, banks are sneaky, don't trust them. (massive run on sentence, don't care)
     
  10. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    Thankfully over here there are very VERY stringent laws governing banks and businesses, they must inform you IN WRITING if and when they are going to take any fees or money, I pay £10 a month for something called 'control' which prevents the bank from taking any fees or charges from bounced direct debits, overdraft charges or any other charges (we don't have inactivity charges here)
     
  11. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    Just one question though what happens on the Unity side of things? they already sent me a key and I activated it right away (the whole process took less than a minute, i was very impressed!). I closed Unity when I was informed of the reverse and haven't used it since. does it automatically revert to the free version?
     
  12. Khyrid

    Khyrid

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    I heard of paypal snafus like this before where a person gets the product and paypal reverses the transaction, the company usually demands a return of the product or they have to hash it out with paypal. You should contact a unity customer support representative. Better to be on the same side.
     
  13. GibTreaty

    GibTreaty

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    Paypal has a maximum backup limit that you can set and the highest it goes is $1,000 (at least for me). $1,500 would break that limit unless you had set the limit higher somehow. I've tried buying things and went past the limit by a little but it simply stopped that purchase and nothing bad really happened. Maybe you're in a different situation though because of the higher money amount? I hope you get this sorted out.
     
  14. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    I've had some issues with Paypal too. Someone tried to pay me once and they locked it up for no reason for like 2 weeks. The payment was being 'investigated'. When you email them and say WTF, then they just say, as we said sir, it's being investigated. WTF is there to investigate, someone is paying me for MY services with THEIR money.

    Also by the time I receive the money in my account from Paypal, and everyones had their cut, I lose like 8%, and it takes 7 whole working days to appear!! What a rip off!
     
  15. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    Kool yeh I'll wait for them 2 email me as the email i got the receipt from is a noreply email . I just assumed it'd automatically revert Unity to the free edition seeing as it's a license and Unity checks online when you fire her up (or at least I assume that's what happens)
     
  16. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    I got that limit lifted, I sent Paypal all the documents, passport scans and stuff, everythings 100% cocha and above board, This is why I'm double pissed off.
     
  17. rab236

    rab236

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    I would assume you can use Unity without any internet access. Maybe Unity does check when there is internet access, though.
     
  18. Metron

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    I'm astonished about the situation... I pass ~2-3000 Euros every month through my Paypal account and never had any problems. Did they motivate their actions? Did they tell you WHAT you have actually done to get your account seized?
     
  19. Morning

    Morning

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    Unity should give this man a free license. At least for 3.5
     
  20. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Its because he hasn't validated his personal information and proved hes earning through paypal, Its a form of fraud (From paypals view). you might not actually be earning through paypal.
     
  21. rab236

    rab236

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    Well, he did validate his identity.


     
  22. khanstruct

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  23. Starsman Games

    Starsman Games

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    I think now you know how you become a PayPal hater. ;)

    I say: the key is activated. Contact Unity so they can contact PayPal too. If both parties are involved in the conversation it may be easier to resolve things.

    Should you ever decide to use PayPal again, don't ignore their warnings.

    I personally only use them in cases where the online merchant only accepts PayPal, even then I don't log into PayPal, just use them to pay with my credit card without logging in. I have no active PayPal account, don't trust them with direct access to my bank account for reasons you now have experienced.

    The age of PayPal is over, really. PayPal was extremely useful in the early days of the web, when we were not able to trust almost anyone. These days’ credit cards have grown much savvier and it's easier to know who you can trust with direct purchases. Mind you, I don’t do eBay.
     
  24. Adam-Buckner

    Adam-Buckner

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    You definitely need to be in contact with sales.

    Has PayPal actually *said* what you did wrong?

    Scary...
     
  25. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    I only use paypal for quick small payments.

    I would never accept a large sum from paypal because once you give the person the item they can dispute it and paypal defaults to returning their money. Guaranteed!

    A long time ago, 6 years+, I moved across country and sold a couple grand worth of my possessions which ended up in the paypal acct. After moving I forgot my paypal login and was never able to get ahold of paypal. I contacted them and it said it could take 2 weeks, which came and went,I never heard back from them, not in writing, not by phone. I could only ever get a call center. Miraculously, 6+ weeks later, after drinking and partying one night, I just randomly remembered, ran over to the computer and was able to login and transfer the money.
     
  26. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    I'd talk to your bank - try to get them to stop the money leaving your account - and to sales@unity3d.com to let them know what's going on.
     
  27. stimarco

    stimarco

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    Intriguing. Shame they only operate in the US.
     
  28. khanstruct

    khanstruct

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    Ah yes. I forgot about that. Sorry. It is a very nice alternative ($0.25 per transaction)

    @Chaoss, it concerns me that many folks have asked if you overdrew your account (insufficient funds) or if PayPal has told you why you were blacklisted, and you seem to be dodging the question. I'm not trying to be offensive, but if they've given you a reason, it would benefit others to know the things to avoid to prevent this from happening to them.
     
  29. Khyrid

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    From my dealing with paypal and what I've heard of them i doubt there was any sufficient reason, they are just dumb people.
     
  30. keithsoulasa

    keithsoulasa

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    THIS
    Paypal likes to accept shaddy payments then steal money from the seller when somthing goes wrong
    Ebay is also a good way to get robbed
     
  31. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    Sorry i've not been around (went out). I asked her for a reason but she wouldn't tell me, I called them again before I got onto the PC, and this time I got an Indian guy with really bad English. But he also wouldn't tell me the reason, I asked to speak to the supervisor and he said he can't give me a reason but it's something to do with a random security check. When I asked him what I needed to do to fix my account he said he can't tell me that it should be on my Paypal resolution center.... is it... no it's bloody not, there's some standard "do this... do that" with ticks next to every one. You can bet I'll not be using Paypal again!

    It's a bloody joke! WHERE'S MY MONEY :mad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myZU2DZoD9w
     
  32. khanstruct

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    Thought that link was going here. :)
     
  33. Morning

    Morning

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    "Can't do" is a common answer when it comes to paypal support. Shame really as their service is great... until you're limited.
     
  34. Chaoss

    Chaoss

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    I know right, I've never heard that phrase being used anywhere else apart from Paypal
     
  35. NomadKing

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    The paypal resolution center is a joke. It took 3 attempts and a phone call for them to accept some proof documents because their system hadn't actually flagged them as being uploaded or in need of checking. Keep at them, I hope you get this sorted :)
     
  36. Morning

    Morning

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    Yes, be persistent. I heard it helps when nothing gets done the first time. They have to at least give a valid reason or an explanation.
     
  37. keithsoulasa

    keithsoulasa

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    No they don't , they can hold your money for how long they want
     
  38. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    In regard to something mentioned earlier, it's not because PayPal (main) nor eBay are based in the US that the CAB would have issues doing anything - it's because PayPal Europe is based out of Luxembourg.

    "PayPal Europe is duly licensed as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended (hereinafter the “Law”) and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg.

    Since the service provided by PayPal Europe is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, customers of PayPal Europe are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des Dépôts Luxembourg (AGDL)."
    - https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/mentions_eu-outside

    Just reading that would give me pause in using PayPal in Europe...
     
  39. welby

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    Does Unity accept a check/ or money order in the mail? :p

    I have never had a problem with Paypal, though I only use them as a gateway to pay with a CC if the site makes me login to it, which I find an annoying intermediate step.

    That said,..your story sufficiently scares me. What non-internet alternatives we got? Can we simply call Customer Support and buy Unity4 over the phone?

    Technolgies making the easy easier and the harder harder!

    :p
     
  40. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    just supporting the op here, paypal has burned us in the past too. We always keep money out of paypal where possible.

    Paypal locked my account and kept my money because I failed to login with the wrong password. After going through all their support channels the advice was to contact the supreme court or such bull.

    Since then I use another bank account and a new account but I will never trust those scamming bastards ever again. So any paypal I do use, gets moved out ASAP.

    Never did get my money back. They probably do this quite regularly with impunity. I hear it so much online, and now this post only further proves it to me.


    Let me assure you, paypal's business practises are only tolerated for their convenience. They are NOT a good company.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  41. echtolion

    echtolion

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    I remember when Paypal locked Notch's account when Minecraft became big and it took him a very long time to get unlocked, he had a very large amount of money tied up.

    I hear a lot of bad things from them.
     
  42. lilymontoute

    lilymontoute

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    Same here.

    PayPal limited my account for a few months due to something similar. I had to call in multiple times, provide identification and even business formation documents (and then provide these again since they were having "problems" with their system), and wait another month before everything was resolved. I also move funds out of PayPal immediately after I receive them.

    They spend millions each year lobbying in the US and other countries in order to not be considered a financial institution. And the big reason that they do this is so that they are not subject to the same forms of regulation when it comes to handling your money, and what they can and can't do with your account.
     
  43. kingcharizard

    kingcharizard

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    I've never had a problem with paypal then again I never moved much money through paypal. I used prepaid debit cards to handle large transactions. But the paragraph above seems really fishy its like the 4th time someone wrote the same thing in this thread.. paypal seem to me like they try to scam you and rip you off and never provide a reason for things being "Your fault" they lock you out and try to keep your money and apparently if you cant afford a lawyer your screwed.. :( seems I need a new way to receive money from others
     
  44. Dreamora

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    I've used paypal for years for my freelance work and in top months pushed through 5 figure USD amounts, all in all a 6 figure amount the past years combined and didn't have a single problem.
    Its interesting also that I only here these stories from UK and US users, nobody else, so I would consider it a problem of paypal US which operates the US and UK platform. Not a problem of the paypal as used by everyone else which operates outside the US legal suicide ground where paypal is forced to be overprotective to be not target of legal actions due to allowing you supporting 'dubios' individuals
     
  45. RefinedGames

    RefinedGames

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    For some reason fraudulent activity is triggered with every Unity license purchase I've made using my Visa CC. I'm not kidding. I have to call the CC every time to allow the purchase to go through. They even prevent me from making any purchases until I call and clear. I rarely have problems like this, but it is 3 for 3 now with the Unity License purchase. Strange. I wonder if there is a correlation to this issue.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  46. stimarco

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    Some banks require you explicitly tell them to allow online purchases. Could that be the issue?

    Personally, having had to deal with the British banking system for decades, I'm amazed anyone puts up with it.
     
  47. jashan

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    PayPal is evil. The world knows since they closed down WikiLeaks. It's really time people move over to digital currencies like Bitcoin. After the "crazy weeks" last year where Bitcoin first went up to $30 and then down to $7 and finally down to $2, it's now pretty stable around $5, slowly rising up again.

    It's obviously "future technology" but it's the kind of technology that is needed to become independent of banks and other shady organizations like PayPal or the CC corporations.

    The best thing any of us can do is support payments with Bitcoin. It may be a bit of a hassle and it may not bring in the big masses of cash, yet (because the Bitcoin user base still doesn't have critical mass) - but the more things people can use Bitcoin for, the higher the adoption rate eventually will become. No one would have thought PayPal would become so big early on ... the difference between Bitcoin and PayPal is: No centralized institution that could be "evil".

    Problem solved ;-)
     
  48. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    Bitcoin is as secure as storing cash in your drawer at work.
    It got hacked and compromised several times this year with a sum of several million USD stolen from the system through the fact that 'not centralized' means 'noobs exist in its system too'

    That paypal would become huge was clear since day 1.
    Its like western union just with 10% lower fees and an even faster transaction speed

    The wikileaks step might have seemed evil but under law enforcement even you would shut up and close down such accounts if the alternative is that your service will be taken down. wikileaks got crushed globally under massive pressure from the #1 censorship country known as the USA. Bear with it or support those that try to get that corrupt lobbyist government down.
     
  49. jashan

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    Regarding security, Bitcoin is indeed kind of like cash: If you put lots of it into your drawer at work - yeah, that might get you screwed. However, if you put it into a safe (i.e. take the necessary precautions to prevent people from getting your private keys), well ... it's as safe as your safe. The problem isn't with Bitcoin just like the issue with cash in your example isn't with cash itself - but with where you put the cash. If you have your Bitcoin wallet unprotected on an unprotected computer, it's like putting your cash wallet on the street.

    That's what I meant with "future technology" - it's not for the faint of heart, not for the naive, and not for people who are scared of technology. Yet. But that will eventually change. It's just a matter of time. From that perspective, the hacks and compromises were really helpful: This showed potential problems and got people thinking about solutions.

    So, from my perspective, things will become better and better with Bitcoin - while things are getting worse and worse with banks, CC corporations and PayPal.

    I think it would be awesome if I could pay Unity 5 with Bitcoin ;-)
     
  50. RingOfStorms

    RingOfStorms

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    So I read up and I am split on paypal, I haven't had any money really flowing though it so I can't say much, but after reading what I have read today, not sure if I ever want to.

    I was just wondering how https://www.merchantinc.com/ has been to any of you that have used it. It does have almost to good ot be true rates of like 1.99% on web/mobile/phone - so it leads me to believe there may be something sketchy somewhere in there.

    If you got nay other alternatives to paypal that you have used it would be cool to post them here with your experiences.

    Edit: not sure about Merchant inc, it looks like you have to pay a 7.95 monthly fee no matter what, while paypal offers the standard 0 a month, with an option to upgrade to advanced or pro. So...
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
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