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'OUYA' Android Console for $99

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Arowx, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  2. ZeroByteDNA

    ZeroByteDNA

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    A chart from a year ago about the spread of broadband does not address the discussion of capping and throttling. There was no mention of decline in the least.

    http://stopthecap.com/ on the other hand...
     
  3. angrypenguin

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    Generally speaking the connections are spreading, yes. But as that happens the bandwidth being handled by some ISPs is increasing faster than they can upgrade infrastructure to deal with it, and in those cases the approach taken is often to cap or throttle downloads. In other words, people still have a fast link, but after they've downloaded a certain amount at full speed they get throttled back by up to 90% of the link speed.

    They still have a "fast connection", their ISP simply stops sending data at the full speed.

    I know it's different in other parts of the world, but here in Australia it's been standard practise since the rise of ADSL.
     
  4. ZeroByteDNA

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    The $4.15 is per 1...so it would be $87.15 for 21...

    Yeah, a few months back we had to upgrade - didn't increase our speed, but it helped us avoid the throttling during primetime and toward the end of the month.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  5. tatoforever

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    Yeah, i just saw that! Still pricey anyway! :rolleyes:
     
  6. khanstruct

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    I didn't get those numbers; the people who did the study did, and the source is listed on the image.
     
  7. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    I though for a moment it was the price per connection! I've corrected my original post. :rolleyes:
     
  8. kablammyman

    kablammyman

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  9. tatoforever

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    Back to the thread! XD
    OUYA, will alleviate the incredible fragmentation of the Android hardware. OUYA developers will be able to concentrate only on one device (If they are making exclusive games on it of course). Gamers that adopts OUYA are there only for gaming, not for gazillions lazy App that does nothing. OUYA will be only for games!
    Still thinking that it wont be a success? Rendezvous in two years! XD
     
  10. angrypenguin

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    How do you figure this? OUYA is just one fork of Android hardware. If you want to support Android in general it actually makes it worse, because it's first of all yet another set of Android hardware, and secondly one that has very different I/O to all of the others - there's a gamepad and a non-touch screen.

    If your game is designed purely around TV/gamepad play then it makes sense to target OUYA and no other Android devices, but then fragmentation isn't an issue in the first place. If you're targeting Android in general such that fragmentation is an issue, though, it actually makes it worse.
     
  11. tatoforever

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    I said if you are making an exclusive title to OUYA (a game for TV with gamepad you know), not to Android smartphones (touch devices), it will make sense as you don't have to target all Android devices...
    Clear now? :D
     
  12. ZeroByteDNA

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    So by further fragmenting the hardware, they will alleviate the issue of hardware fragmentation? What about when they come out with the Ouya 2 in less than six months? The Ouya 3 within a year?

    The thing is, the Ouya will not only be for games - folks will install other apps. I still think it could be a success as a OLPC-type desktop computer. I can see where they're trying to come from with the marketing...but it takes me back to, ahem, one of my favorite commercials:



    The Ouya...the wonder computer of 2013. A computer for under $100...

    ...because face it, the hardware is not "console" hardware nor will the OS be a "console" OS. It's tablet hardware with a phone/tablet OS.

    They could do so much more with it - it feels like they're trying to market a lie while ignoring the true potential.
     
  13. tatoforever

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    Well, I don't know about other types of Apps neither OUYA2/3. What they've said is OUYA, a gaming console (only for games).
     
  14. angrypenguin

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    Well sure, my point was that if you're making a game just for OUYA then Android fragmentation isn't a problem that needs fixing in the first place. And if it's not just for OUYA then it makes it worse.
     
  15. angrypenguin

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    Seriously? That sounds like a strong case of functional fixedness to me.

    There is absolutely no reason that any of that stuff can't be re-purposed perfectly well. As you say yourself, there's also plenty more it could actually be used for.

    As for "marketing a lie while ignoring the true potential"... you seem like a relatively business savvy person to me, so I'm really surprised that you see it this way. You're not looking past the tech specs, which are more or less entirely beside the point. An Xbox 360 and a PS3 have significantly more hardware than an OUYA, do you see those the same way?
     
  16. ZeroByteDNA

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    There's a difference between hardware and an OS designed to be a console...and retasking hardware/OS to call it a console.

    I can throw together a PC, trim the OS of other apps, and just install games on it...doesn't make it a console. It's a PC being used to play games. The reason that consoles can play the games as well as they do is because they've been designed from the ground up to do so.

    The Ouya...? Again, it's tablet hardware with a mobile OS. Their calling it a console would be no different than my hooking up a tablet to the TV and saying it's a console. Because outside of the screen, that's basically what they've done. It's a weaker version of Sony's new forthcoming Xperia tablet.

    When I say they're ignoring the potential, I'm saying by focusing on calling it a console (when imo it's not) and ignoring everything else it could be doing...they're ignoring the potential. It's an Andorid desktop - where you should be able to play your favorite Android games, but you should also be able to tap into many of your other Android apps and also do that basic productivity stuff. I see a greater potential in what they could be doing with the Ouya, than what they're marketing it as...a $100 game console. It's a $100 desktop PC.

    Hence the references to the OLPC (which Behar was involved in) - they've got a laptop, they're working on the tablet, but where's the desktop? Oh wait, it's been remarketed as a console instead?

    I was downplaying the hardware it has in that sense (I have downplayed it in the sense of the comparable hardware that will be available at the time of its release), I'm baffled that they're downplaying what they could be doing by simply marketing it as a console.

    Somebody's looking to buy an Apple TV, a Roku, etc...oh wait, what's this Ouya thing? Ohhh...damn nifty.
    Somebody's looking to buy a computer for their kids or their parents...hrmmm, Mac...Windows...look at those prices, the complexity...oh wait, what's this Ouya thing? Ohhh...damn nifty.
    Want a little computer for the kitchen? How about the Ouya? Kid going off to college and the budget's tight - they're not really in a program requiring a computer but having something would help? How about the Ouya?

    Gaming? Ouya's got that!
    Social? Ouya's got that!
    Music, TV, Movies, Videos...? Ouya's got that!
    Productivity? Ouya's got that!

    With the increase in cloud computing, SaaS, and all the rest...the Ouya's primed to tap that - even running Android (and as I said, if they worked with Ubuntu...BAZINGA!).

    For under $100...BAZINGA!

    Would it replace my desktop? Not a chance in Hell, lol... but it could replace my gf's. I could picture it replacing my dad's easily. I see a lot of potential in the Ouya...which I see them ignoring while marketing a lie - it's no more a console than any device you could connect to a TV and use a game controller.

    It's a computer for 2013...under $100. I think they're missing the opportunity that it presents. Apple can't touch it. Microsoft can't touch it. Nettop mini PCs tend to run $250+.

    Look at the prices of the Trim-Slice: http://trimslice.com/web/models
    Tegra 2...running Android 4.0? You're looking at $200-340+.
     
  17. angrypenguin

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    But they're not "ignoring potential", they're focussing on the desires of their target audience. Trying to be all things to all people is a tried and tested path to failure. Nobody will give a toss about a cheap PC which poorly* addresses a whole bunch of needs they don't have**, but a cheap gaming device is a whole other story.

    And again I ask, why is this any less of a console than a PS3 or a 360? Both of those devices could also do everything you list, except for the fact that the designers choose not to allow them. Hell, the PS3 did do all of those things and the support got removed in a firmware update.

    What is a single reason that Android with a custom UI can't be as good as any other console's OS as far as the user is concerned?

    And furthermore, what's to say that these guys won't start addressing all of that stuff with the OUYA 2 or 3, once they're a little more established? Gamers are a pretty passionate market, and a solid one to build initial support on top of. People who want to just browse the 'net or process word docs... not so much. There's nothing to stop these guys expanding once they have a beach head, but even if they're planning to there's good reason for them not to spruik it just yet - why muddy the waters with their initial wave of core supporters?

    "Play Minecraft! Also create and share spreadsheets!" Mixed message, much?

    * I say "poorly" because it could only address 90% of those needs by relying on software designed for use on tablets, when it's not going to be used like a tablet.

    ** I say they don't have those needs because, if they do, they've already addressed them with a PC or a tablet anyway. The fact that this is cheap is irrelevant, because they're not going to purchase a second, redundant and inferior solution.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  18. ZeroByteDNA

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    Target Audience...by using the term console? Here are the top 10 games YTD by console:

    Wii
    1. Just Dance 3
    2. Mario Kart Wii
    3. Wii Sports Resort
    4. Just Dance 2
    5. Zumba Fitness
    6. New Super Mario Bros. Wii
    7. Wii Fit Plus
    8. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
    9. Wii Party
    10. Mario Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games

    Xbox 360
    1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
    2. Kinect Adventures!
    3. Battlefield 3
    4. Gears of War 3
    5. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    6. FIFA Soccer 12
    7. Assassin's Creed: Revelations
    8. Call of Duty: Black Ops
    9. Batman: Arkham City
    10. Madden NFL 12

    PS3
    1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
    2. FIFA Soccer 12
    3. Battlefield 3
    4. Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception
    5. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
    6. Assassin's Creed: Revelations
    7. Batman: Arkham City
    8. Call of Duty: Black Ops
    9. LittleBigPlanet 2
    10. L.A. Noire

    So how exactly is the Ouya targeting those players?

    What about over at Google Play? What are the top ten free games? Free, because that's a key selling point for the Ouya, no?

    1. Angry Birds Space
    2. Angry Birds
    3. Ant Smasher Free
    4. Logo Quiz
    5. Fruit Ninja Free
    6. Temple Run
    7. Angry Birds Seasons
    8. Pool Master Pro
    9. Draw Something Free
    10. Angry Birds Rio

    So one looks at those first three lists and then the fourth. They appear to be two different crowds, no? Different audiences.

    But wait, you can't compare the games from the first three lists and that fourth list - it's not a fair comparison, right? The target audience is console gamers, no? Well, that's what console gamers are buying. Should we look at paid games over on Google Play? Well, no - because again, Ouya's pushing the F2P aspect. So we shouldn't look at paid games.

    Oh, okay - we'll look at paid games: Angry Birds Space Premium, Where's My Water?, Where's My Perry?, Draw Something, Minecraft - Pocket Edition, World of Goo, Cut the Rope, Doodle Jump, Dead Space, and VGBA...a GameBoy emulator.

    Well, Dead Space...kind of fits in with the PS3/Xbox 360 stuff... and if you look around, you can find more like that.

    Of course, "stuff like that" does not look as good as the "stuff" - so why would the console gamer play "stuff like that" rather than just playing that "stuff"...? Why would they pick up an Ouya if they already have their collection of consoles?

    Okay, so maybe the Ouya's targeted at console gamers that are not console gamers...er, people that do not own a console that want a console. Perhaps it's targeted at those future console gamers on a budget, folks that do not want to buy a refurb from GameStop or buy used games... so it's the cheap console for the new console gamer. Is it a stepping stone console? Is it a beginner console? Will they be satisfied with that?

    Maybe it's targeted at folks that play games on their phones and tablets...so they can play them on a console - on their TV. Well, no - that doesn't really make sense. They can get a controller and a cable to hook up their phones and tablets. Well, maybe hooking that cable up from time to time is just too annoying for them...so they'll spend $100 to avoid having to do that every now and again. Every now and again, mind you - because they can always play the game on their phone or tablet.

    So in considering their target audience...well, the Ouya seems pretty damn useless.

    Everything that you've suggested as a reason why they would not market the Ouya as an Android desktop...applies to marketing it as an Android console.

    There's a reason that I included the commercial for the Vic 20. It's very apropos to the discussion. The Ouya could do more. That was part of the successful marketing of the Vic 20. It's also part of the marketing for Android/iOs/Blackberry/WP7.x/etc smartphones over regular bar/slider/etc phones. It's also part of the marketing for tablets over eReaders.

    Features. The number of features at a certain price point. Value.

    A $100 Android console doesn't have much value. A $100 Android desktop does.

    How about this example - suppose you went into an Apple Store and they had the following:
    $100 iPod
    $100 iPad
    $100 iPhone

    Which one offers the most value?

    Wait, wait, wait...those are different devices. Not a fair comparison at all. True. So how about this then...

    They're selling an iPhone for $100. BUT...they're not calling it an iPhone. They're calling it an iPod. They're not talking about any of the features of the iPhone...they're just talking about the features that it shares with an iPod. Maybe they're selling an iPad for $100, but they're only marketing the iPod shared features. It's an iPad, but they're selling it as an iPod.

    Would they sell more iPhones if they sold it as an iPhone instead of an iPod?
    Would they sell more iPads if they sold it as an iPad instead of an iPod?

    So why is the Ouya being marketed as an Android console instead of an Android desktop? Why would somebody suggest marketing it as such...that's like saying Apple should sell their iPhones and iPads as if they were iPods... c'mon.
     
  19. ZeroByteDNA

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  20. taumel

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    I'm not convinced, only the Bieber-Box will bring back my best gaming experiences in the living room on my shiny TV.

    Btw. are you sure you've adjusted the magnetic deflection of your electron beam properly?
     
  21. ZeroByteDNA

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    I showed the gf that video. She enjoyed it as well. At first she was laughing at Bieber trying to be a man when he looks like he's 12 and then she laughed again as Madsen beat the crap out of him. It's his only video I've ever watched, but him leaning on the hood of the car and spitting blood made it worthwhile listening through/watching the garbage up to that point...ahem, I do not condone actual physical violence against him - but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy him getting his fictional ass kicked. :)
     
  22. kablammyman

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  23. khanstruct

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    Here's a list of the games that are currently planned for the Ouya.
     
  24. taumel

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    @ZeroByteDNA
    Regarding this subject i feel like we're a bit like



    Now i could write something about that 'list', listening to internet music on your TV or what Carmack said about the Ouya but i need to get my medicine.
     
  25. keithsoulasa

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    I'm still waiting on this , I want an option to install apps from the normal Android market, it will be useful for Spotify , Netfilx, Hulu, etc . Like ZeroDNA keeps saying this could be much more then just a game system . Imagine how many people would like to use a bluetooth keyboard and write some basic emails, keep facebook, ect from their Oyua .
     
  26. ZeroByteDNA

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    Even they're saying it now. :)

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407973,00.asp

    @Taumel, I don't know about that - but did you see what Forbes had to say comparing the Ouya and Rift?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...s-rift-kickstarter-is-a-better-bet-than-ouya/
     
  27. keithsoulasa

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    If i had a job right now , I would of already dropped 100$ on Oyua , just because for 100$ its worth taking a shot .
     
  28. keithsoulasa

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    Even though I don't think the games are going to be all that hot , I want a living room Box for music and movies ,
     
  29. ZeroByteDNA

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    There are quite a few choices for that.

    Logitech, Netgear, Western Digital, Sony, Roku, Vizio, D-Link, Samsung, Hauppauge, UEBO, Apple, ZyXel, and the list goes on... many of them also go beyond just media like audio/video - they have all sorts of apps, games, connected to various services, etc.
     
  30. ej2009

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    Raspberry Pi will support Android 4, it already runs XBMC with HD via HDMI, only costs $25 ($35 with ethernet port).

    http://www.raspberrypi.org/
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  31. keithsoulasa

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    Actually i've looked into more powerful micro PC's and i'll just have to compare them when Oyua comes out . Right now Oyua is the most powerful at 100$ or less
     
  32. taumel

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    @ZeroByteDNA
    Nice read.
     
  33. kablammyman

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  34. AmazingRuss

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    Can you name an indie-accessible platform for which that isn't true?

    That's just part of the business, and until Sony MS and Nintendo allow us onto their better defended platforms, that's how it's gonna stay.
     
  35. TehWut

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    I'm still not sure. With 8 million it's hard to say they can't do *something* with it despite all the negatives it's getting.

    Although the fact that "galaga is confirmed for OUYA" gets me just as excited as falsely stating that "Skyrim / black ops could come to OUYA"
     
  36. taumel

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    It doesn't matter if they sell 50k or 100k, the interesting multiplication factor is in a different league and the issues remain but if Namco ports Pac-Man-CE, this could easily be the best game for the Ouya.
     
  37. Starsman Games

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    iOS. Also happens to be the most profitiable indie friendly platform out there (correlation does not mean causation, though).

    Jailbreaking iPhones is not as easy as it sounds. The average joe never does it. Its actually easy to accidentally un-jailbreak a phone by just connecting it to a computer that is set up to sync. (I known people that had iPhones they paid to jailbreak accidentally upgrade to the latest version, losing the jailbreak.)
     
  38. mu-kow

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    Jailbreaking an iPhone is extremely easy. And even if you don't know how to do it, you can usually find someone who does.

    It takes all of 10 minutes.

    Wii (softmod) on the other hand takes hours.

    I've done several of both.
     
  39. n0mad

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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  40. ZeroByteDNA

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    It's tough to find much gaming news about it of late, with everything being about all the media partnerships: http://xbmc.org/

    Supporting four players though - that'll make develop somewhat interesting and also likely lean more toward exclusivity...
     
  41. ZeroByteDNA

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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  42. PrimeDerektive

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  43. ZeroByteDNA

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    Um... one month? I wouldn't call that preferential treatment. I would call that pre-order #1 and pre-order #2.

    Those that have "partnered" with Ouya on the other hand - the various services, they're going to have time to develop and prepare for those two pre-order groups. Those that pre-ordered and are part of pre-order group #1....er, I mean those that backed Ouya, are going to get a month to develop and prepare for those that are part of pre-order group #2, er... those that pre-ordered.

    I'm leaning toward if I had backed it, I would have been pissed only having a month.

    And... I quoted the cost wrong, not having checked the KS page in a wee while. I'll edit my post above to fix it; but here's that preferential treatment in regard to cost:

    KS Backer: $95 Ouya + $20 Shipping = $115.
    Pre-Order: $99 Ouya + $10 Shipping = $109.

    They paid $6 more to get their Ouya a month before the pre-order guys.
     
  44. afastrunner

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    KS $20 shipping was only for international.

    Real prices:

    Domestic:
    KS = 95$ or 99$ depending on if you were an early bird.
    Pre-Order (http://www.ouya.tv/buyouya/) = 109$

    International:
    KS = 115$ or 119$
    Pre-Order (http://www.ouya.tv/buyouya/) = 119$

    So worse case you a late KS international purchase is the same price as international pre-order but you get it 1 month sooner.
     
  45. mu-kow

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    If you pledged $699, you get your OUYA in December :)
     
  46. ZeroByteDNA

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    Thank you for that correction... that handles the $6 aspect of pre-order #1 and pre-order #2...

    And there you have some time before the two pre-orders. Thanks. :)

    edit: It's been too long since I got my eyes checked...getting old sucks. :(
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  47. angrypenguin

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    As someone who backed, I don't want people who pre-order to have to arbitrarily wait just so I feel good about myself having something first, when they're the very people I want to be selling my game to...

    I want everyone to have one of these things ASAP. I didn't kick 'em 'cause I want something first, I kicked 'em 'cause I want the platform to be a success.
     
  48. Ayrik

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    It will just be a prototype box, who knows if it will even look remotely similar. My experience is usually they're just huge, ugly boxes, but this could be different since all the hardware is pretty standard and not specialized like a normal console.
     
  49. mgear

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    hmm...
    pre-order price is same as in the kickstarter,
    http://www.ouya.tv/buyouya/

    (would had been nicer if kickstarters would had gotten atleast a few $ better price..)
     
  50. MarigoldFleur

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    Only if you're shipping out of the US, in the US it costs $10 more. On top of that, people on Kickstarter are getting their consoles a month earlier.
     
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