A Unity ID allows you to buy and/or subscribe to Unity products and services, shop in the Asset Store and participate
in the Unity community.
Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Arowx, Jul 4, 2012.
Don't mind if I do.
Nope, it's entertaining but you shouldn't be too much surprised if things won't turn out the way you would like them to be.
We're indie developers. That statement is true every day you sit down to work. We're here because we move forward and maintain hope despite that fact.
Your assumptions are not quite right.
Many devs are talking about their lack of attention with developers, not answering emails, etc; but I don't know about that.
At least my emails the woman did answer, but she didn't have any "real" answers about anything.
The answers were just marketer's stuff; no real information.
So, I'd like this thing to be a success. I don't like Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo's policies and Ouya could be amazing IF they could actually make a system open to developers but closed to piracy. Though that won't happen.
The misinformation just screems to me that they are not planning on doing anything to protect developers from abusive use of their IP.
Because of that, if the system comes out, all we are going to see there are free ports of games that players need to buy on another platform if they want the full experience. Unless they have a good DRM for average joe, but that won't stop websites that publish pirated APKs just to have a few prints of adds.
If you really have faith on this thing, at least try to explain to your players that you are small and need food too;
Else they won't give a S*** about pirating your so many months of hard work.
Edit: I just saw the OnLive update... With OnLive on Ouya, the green grass for small indies is now pretty much vanished there too.
There's just no pleasing some people. First people are complaining that there will be no AAA titles on Ouya, now, with OnLive bringing games like Darksiders 2, you're complaining that indies will suffer in light of AAA competition.
Also, there's no reason to think that games will be unprotected on this thing. The system is open, not the library. Sure, you could probably download APKs from the internet, wire up your Ouya to your PC and play pirated versions of the games, but you can do the same thing with the XBox, were you so inclined.
For those who want to check out the latest update involving OnLive (and new images of their controller), you can see it here.
This thing has been long (the thread). This is my stance:
I have no resources to allocate to even thinking too much about this. This post is alredy over-budgeted time thinking about it.
If this thing actually comes out, I'll definitively look at it. IF.
I am not in the business of giving others money in without guarantee. I never pledge to anything in kickstarter anyways.
This will be android. Dont waste much time thinking specifically about it. If it becomes relevant, I'm sure Unity will make sure games work properly, so just work on your titles.
If the market will be "as open as google's" it will fail. Plain and simple: it will be full of mallware, garbage, and excrement. Finding any decent game will be a headache and the good games many never be seen by players.
I'm not holding my breath for this one, but I think the Kickstarter's success may make Samsung decide it's time to go head to head against Nintendo and Sony in the console arena.
Samsung? How random is that?...
I'd much rather see Steam make a console. Or, how about Dell fires up that Alienware brand and create the "Escape Pod" gaming console (so clever, aren't I?)
If you honestly think there's going to be a $200 price drop on the PS3, even when the next console comes out, you're dreaming. Even the Xbox only hit $99 when they were able to link it to a 2 year Live contract.
Ah yes. My apologies; its only dropping to $150.
Has Sony said this, or are they "unverified sources" that always predict wild price drops only for them to never materialize?
It's not about company preference, but realistic expectation.
Look at Samsung's track record. They copy everyone. If they think they can enter a market without much effort, they will.
Consoles are just there. A company with big manufacturing facilities can easily put together a box with a flavor of Android inside, and some app store. Samsung already has an infrastructure, Samsung Android devices come packed with their App Store in addition to Google Play's market. Such a console can piggy back easily on that. On top Samsung has been working on their own version of Game Center/Xbox Live and Siri. All these things can easily come together in a rather open and affordable setup box with Bluetooth controllers.
Steam has the software infrastructure, but no hardware development experience. That's not something you tackle in a few months. Dell/Alienware is the other way around. No infrastructure or software experience (other than the horrible bloat ware they add to Windows.)
Samsung is just perfectly positioned to pursue this, they already sort of have in Smart-TVs with an embedded OS and App store. They would rule if they just packed that in a box and a controller.
If you were conscious around the 80s, anyone with the capability to do so had a console. The market collapsed and didn’t get back together until Nintendo created a new model. That model had been seen impossible to replace for decades, also hard to compete with or enter. Today we finally are at a point where an all new digital distribution model can entirely replace the model introduced by Nintendo and cloned by Sega, Microsoft and Sony. Samsung is sitting on all the right pieces to deliver next week, if they wanted to rush something half-decent and competitive.
Actualy I try to keep separated my opinion of a gamer from a developer's point of view...
Looks like it is not the case for most people posting in this topic.
As a gamer, I like OnLive. As small developer, I hate it.
It doesn't make sense for Samsung entering a low cost console market. So far they work different as a company. They only copy and then later on evolve when the first obstacles have been put away by others already and when the profit margins are still high.
Onlive makes this a bit enticing , combine this with CONFIRMED( not hacked on) netflix and hulu support, and I'll buy it when it comes out
Onlive needs REALLY strong internet though, hope they build in a Ethernet connection
Imagine if the UT-Roku Union were to expand... Roku Arcade and Roku Indie Games....
They already said they were adding Ethernet a while ago and there's an ethernet port on the current mockups...
In other words: they may copy the Apple TV, and add a stylus (or more appropiate, a gamepad.)
I just found out due to your post the Roku was able to install apps... I always thought it was an Apple-TV media streaming box.
This was in recent news as well, Big Fish + Cloud + Roku: http://seattletimes.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2018759086_casual_connect_big_fish.html
As for the Apple TV, I'm kind of surprised they haven't gone the route of an iOS device - so that rather than using AirPlay, you could actually fire up the Apple iSole...iSoul, lol. A marriage of sorts between the Mac Mini, Apple TV, iPad/iPhone...etc, etc. It seems a little silly to have the following setup:
Controller -> iPad -> Apple TV -> TV
Sure, you can hook your iPad/iPhone up to the TV - Apple want's $40 for that adapter (not even $10 for the cable to hook up an Android tablet).
I suppose that I'm just surprised there hasn't been more of push in that direction. Microsoft's doing this nifty thing with Windows 8 on ARM - where the talk's mainly about tablets. What about a Windows 8 ARM "console" / "smart TV appliance" sort of thing? How about the X-Box 540, eh? It's not a full-featured 720...but it taps part of the market.
I really do not see the potential for the Ouya as a console - I see it is a the stepping stone for smart TVs. For all those people that have a LCD/LED TV, but do not have a smart TV and do not have the money to upgrade to a smart TV... that's what I see in the Ouya - and - in other such devices.
I'm surprised that Apple and Microsoft are not pushing that angle more.
"Smart TVs" are overrated and overpriced. Using a TV for anything more than TV is cumbersome, no matter how many features they have packed into them. The ease of use and accessibility of something like the Ouya (or even features found on the PSN) are still worth their weight in gold.
Will these all, eventually be fully integrated into a single device? Sure. But that's a different topic altogether. The main reason for not doing this yet, I imagine, is that companies can still make more money by selling individual components rather than packaging them all into one super tv.
Not everybody has the money to go replace their TV like they do their phones... that's where smart TV appliances come into play. It's cheaper to replace one of those than to replace the TV.
As for a smart TV being cumbersome - um...they're no more cumbersome than using any device connected to the TV. If you had an Ouya built in to the TV, it would be less cumbersome than having the separate Ouya. Something may have a cumbersome UI, but anything could have a cumbersome UI. Even there, you're going to have different folks experience different things - because cumbersome is subjective.
As cloud services grow, I expect to see more smart TVs and "smart" devices in general. While it may be a wee while before the toaster has wifi and is connected to the internet... for other devices, it's not that far off: http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/TI-SimpleLink-WiFi-CC3000/
OnLive is coming.
But is that really a good thing? Did OnLive ever get past all the bandwidth issues that it was experiencing? It causes problems for many folks as their ISPs either cap or throttle.
They just gave out an onlive box at a Unity meetup last monday here in Seattle (along with 3 Unity 4 pro licenses). Said it works with Unity and the guy is local here. They were talking about getting him to give a presentation at a future meetup. Hadn't ever heard of it until then.
I can't remember if this was posted in here or not - saw it linked from a blog: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p9lY-o6V2U
Romero on Ouya...
OnLive on OUYA? sounds like a disaster. It's unreliable enough on a high-end PC with current internet technology.
He sounds like a major Apple fanboy, trying to play off Apple products like they have no flaws at all -_-
Wow, does he ever. It makes me wonder if a pattern is forming here. Are all the Ouya nay-sayers Apple users? Cuz Apple has always been the pioneer of gaming... :/
He was speaking at an Apple II convention. It came up as a question because of the references to the Apple II in some Ouya video...
edit: Oh, the video on the Ouya KS page...duh.
Just one example. I was wondering about a pattern. For example; Zero, are you an Apple user?
Heh, that's kind of funny given my anti-Apple post history.
edit: I'm in with the bad hardware group. Ouya would have been great if it had come out earlier this year...not something planned for coming out next year.
That's not a no
I'm actually surprised that Apple would suggest that the Apple TV is somehow going to be competing in the living room/console arena.
Apple needs to stick with what they're good at... putting i's in front of words.
On one hand, I'm surprised that Apple hasn't gone there already - but then again, much like they're coming late to the game with a decent sized tablet - it won't be until some time next year before their Apple TV offers more than AirPlay and actually becomes the iBox - an iPad/iPhone without the screen. For all the innovation that people attribute to Apple, they tend to forget that Apple doesn't innovate - they outmarket the competition. They come late, they market, they get the kudos for innovation they didn't do...meh..
Nope, not an Apple user. Windows, Linux, and Android... though, I do still have an original 512mb Shuffle iPod - does that count?
With Skullcandy buds...
I bought a MacBook when I went back to school in 2006. I pawned it in 2009. I was always kind of cheesed because they had said at the time that the MacBooks were not going to get the Core2 Duo - just the MacBook Pros - but sure enough, not long after I got it...bam. Bastiches. Had figured it would be coming eventually, but not that fast...meh.
Hell, they did the same thing with the Shuffle...bastiches!
I'm counting on this IBox destroying Ouya if apple sees a market in this . A 200$ IBox would integrate with all the other IStuff
While Apple's integration is possibly the biggest competition to all of the Android/Google integration, I doubt Apple is any threat in the gaming market. They're simply too... uptight.
Imagine a Mac Mini hooked up to the TV with a touchpad controller. Oh wait, it can't play iOS games. Okay, how about an Apple TV? Nope, no luck there either. Wait, you can buy an iPad, iPod, or iPhone and use AirPlay - as long as you have the Apple TV and other iDevice.
So you can grab a $200 iPod Touch and the $100 Apple TV... $300. An iPad and an Apple TV for $500.
You can grab a refurb X-Box 360, PS3, and Wii for $400...total. Or new...$600.
You can get a cheap and small PC to run Windows or Linux for between $70-$250. A Mac Mini's going to cost you $350 (refurb) to $600+.
You can get an Android 4.0 tablet for $100. Less, if you do not want 4.0...
You can hook up your Android tablet with a miniHDMI port to your TV for around $7. The Apple adapter is $39.
Ouya's going to be $100.
I'm not sure that I'd say that Apple's uptight - I'd say they're out of their freaking minds when it comes to pricing.
As an aside, has there been any discussion about Canonical and Ouya...? Ubuntu for Android...Ouya Ubuntu?
Just seen Ouya's getting OnLive. This is gonna be good...
Apple is a threat to the gaming marktet today.
iOS gaming has hurt Nintendo and Sony greately. They still healthy, but they are wounded.
Just look around these forums. See how many are here mainly to develop mobile iOS games.
PS3/Wii and XBox are rather old pieces of hardware, and sold at a loss to make it up in the software licensing side.
Most the android hardware you list is being sold at rasor thin margins. It's an endless competition to the bottom to see who can make the cheapest devices, all the way cutting corners and quality, plus [many] never supporting the devices with updates.
Apple sells relatively expensive hardware, but they make a profit. That's sustainable business that allow them to actually support the products. I hate the fact that my 5 month old Galaxy Player will never see ICS or Jellybean unless I hack it in.
If Apple were to make an iOS based gaming box, it would outperform the Ouya in terms of developer revenue. The quality of games may be equivalent, and the Apple product would sell less units than the Ouya. It would look a lot like the mobile markets now.
If you look at the mobile market right now you will see that, while Android devices clearly outsell iOS devices, and that the Google Play store is quickly approaching the total number of downloads that the Apple app store claims, the developer revenue is much higher for iOS developers than Android developers (over 10 times : Apple 2011 paid over $3.4 Billion - Android Marketplace 2011 paid over $210 million (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/12/ios-revenues-vs-android/)).
This is the main reason that many developers still target iOS before Android. In general, while an iOS app may receive less downloads than the same Android App, for some reason the iOS version is more profitable to the developer.
I certainly would port a game to Ouya/Android. I just wouldn't go exclusive for Ouya, nor would I target it first. The incentive to do so just is not there. Ouya will survive as long as there are indie games being ported to it, which, with Unity, should not be a problem. It may in fact be the most prolific piece of gaming hardware next year. It just won't be the most profitable platform for developers in general.
So why not throw an egg in that basket? Just don't throw all or even most of your eggs in it.
I contacted the folks at Ouya, asking what (if any) were the benefits to building an Ouya exclusive title. Still haven't heard anything back.
However, at most, the benefits would be what? 90% profits rather than 70%? Free marketing maybe... but I agree, exclusivity on the Ouya wouldn't be wise at this point.
As for Apple "hurting" Nintendo and Sony in the gaming market... umm, no. Not even a little. They aren't even in the same demographic. And if you're using these forums as your evidence, you're preventing yourself from seeing a true picture.
Both Sony and Nintendo have basically acknowledged that Apple has hurt their business. Sony by airing ads attempting people to stop thinking about phones as "serious" gaming devices and return to the PSP, and Nintendo by simply saying that Apple has cheapened the market.
When I say "hurting" I don’t mean stealing customers, mind you. I mean just that: hurting. Consumes have started to want something very different, and expect a way lower price for casual entertainment. This is hurting the Nintendo game model (the model that was adopted by Sony and Microsoft with their consoles.)
Unless Apple shows any interest, it won’t be apple taking over the arena, though (so far Apple itself seems to treat gaming as an afterthought.) All it takes is for someone to make enough moderate success to spark the interest of big Asian manufacturers like Samsung, HTC, heck, maybe even Atari may decide to revisit the market! But the next wave of hardware from the current big boys will have to change to something less exclusive (although not as open as Android) or face going obsolete.
The "forums" point was just a quick reference that can be looked at rather fast. You want better point of reference? Listen to Epic Games, who have stated that Infinity Blade has been their more profitable game ever. The market is changing, and it was Apple that started it. This does not mean Apple will finish it, though.
The thing about the old game industry is just that its very hard to make a profit . Its far less risky to make 10 top notch IOS games, and hope one catches on , then to invest your entire studio in one game . I'm glad apple came along and changed the gaming industry . I have a PSP and a old DS, since I have a half way decent Android phone I feel Noooooo need to buy a vita or a 3DS . I'm actually waiting on the no-contract Iphone's to drop in price( although I'll keep the android phone since I'll still dev with it ).
What i'm guessing will happen is Apple has something like an IBox ready to go, or they might just implement some type of IPhone to Hdmi connector, combine that with the controller patent, and boom , Apple's in the living room
The HDMI connector is $39 (though, the new devices coming out have a different port - no?).
You can buy an Apple TV for $99 and use AirPlay with your iPod, iPhone, or iPad.
You can buy a Mac Mini, starting around $600 new...for Mac games.
As for their control/connect patent app, have to wonder if they'll ever put out a touch controller and an iOS VM so folks can play iOS games on their Macs.
I'd say no. It fits in with the isolation they have going on. To do what you want to do, you need to pick an item from Category A, Category B, and Category C...will that be Visa or MasterCard?
I have no clue what your point is on this one...
You can get third party HDMI adapters.
If you want to play your iOS games on the mac, you can also get some mac app that allows you to AirPlay stream into the mac. There are also some Windows apps for that.
All i was saying is that apple has the tech ready to go , IF they see a market for the Ouya
Apple is an arrogant company. They do things they want to do, they dont really seek markets that people show interest over.
It's more likely Samsung jumps in than Apple. If Apple enters the market, its something they been trying to put together for years, not a decision made out of anyone showing them there is a market. I think Apple has a path in mind for the Apple TV, but I think their plan is more along the lines of the Roku than a console. A "store" to download media streaming apps that may end up being called "channels" or "stations".
Either way I don't care. As long as some one jumps in and makes me a console with a more open market. And no: I dont want a Steam box. They are too picky about what they pick for distribution.
An Oyua like Ibox is REALLY close to an apple TV . Its the type of thing they could throw in at in any time .
Time will tell though .
Not really at any time. The Apple TV comes with one of the most horrible remote controlls in the planet, its bad for navigation as it is, would be absurd for gaming.
They cant really open up the Apple TV for gaming without shipping new hardware (controllers.)
theyd need to ship a new Apple TV anyway, heres John Romero who feels the same way