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Assets [Outdated thread] Map Magic

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by Wright, Jul 29, 2015.

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Vote for the plugin name:

Poll closed Feb 25, 2016.
  1. Map Magic

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. Map Magic Editor

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. Magic: Map Editor

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  4. Magic: Map Designer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Magic Editor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Magic: Land Editor

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  7. Land Magic

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  8. Terrain Magic

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Level Magic

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. MagicLand

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
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  1. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Cool! I've been implementing my own solution for this, it's something we definitely need in our map creation. Could you possibly describe what this system will look like?

    I also have a few more suggestions. Sorry to spam you with these!
    • Perhaps we shouldn't store a version of the MapMagic node tree in the level. Currently it seems to be serialized in the level in the MapMagic object? It would be better I think to always store the node tree in a ScriptableObject, like we do already with saving/loading, and then the MapMagic GameObject in the level only needs to have a reference to the scriptable object. I think this has a few advantages - it allows for much easier version control by decoupling the level and the node tree, and it removes the 1:1 logical mapping between node tree and level which is currently hacky to get around.
    • There is currently only the option to load additively, which makes loading and saving for versioning a frustrating experience. I suggest different options for Load and Load Additive, where Load creates an entirely new Node Canvas.
    • In your code, you seem to following a very inefficient pattern when you want to get all the generators of a certain type. You iterate through every generator, every time, to build up an array. It would be much faster and much better practice for the GeneratorAsset to keep a dictionary of lists, with the generator type being the key, and just maintain this list as you add/remove generators.
    • I've implemented portal categories, which come in really handy when you have 15+ portals in your tree. What this means is that I can call a portal "Height Generation/Final Height", and it will show up in the selection menu under the category "Height Generation".
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  2. Wright

    Wright

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    I've made a short video showing how biomes will work. Shortly it mixes two independent graphs together using the biome masks. For the one biome I use a demo scene data, and for the other I create it right in a node (it could be saved later) - I'm using kind of desert here. Then I connect noise to demo biome, and inverted noise - to the the desert one. Then I show that the mask can be any map, not only the noise generator.
     
    KaZZacH and Rodolfo-Rubens like this.
  3. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    That looks really cool, Wright. Do you have any idea when 1.5 might be released?

    Also, seeing whole graphs as inputs in a biome gave me an idea - could we do something like creating a Heights input into a tree that takes the Heights output of another tree? So we could do something like

    Base terrain generation rules > Split into biomes

    ...as completely separate trees. That would be awesome!

    Also, I've found that as my node tree gets bigger and bigger that Unity is becoming more and more unresponsive. It turned out to be due to Unity's woeful Undo system. It might be good to add in an option to disable Undo?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  4. ChezDoodles

    ChezDoodles

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    The biomes looks amazing!
    I understand that version 1.5 will require you to use a unified set of terrain textures across the merged biomes - but do you currently have a plan for the future to dynamically build sets for terrain textures for each terrain tile - so you can have really diverse mega-terrains with many different biomes..?
     
  5. kilik128

    kilik128

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    Little think's for mobile can generate infinite on one axis only for scrolling game
     
  6. Wright

    Wright

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    In v1.5 only those splat prototypes will be applied on terrain that are actually used. If all of the splat map pixels are zero it will be ignored for the terrain to save the terrain rendering performance.
     
  7. ChezDoodles

    ChezDoodles

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    So... over a large terrain (say 100x100 terrain tiles) I could theoretically have 50 biomes each generating a bunch of splatmaps - but as long as no more than the number of supported splat textures (4/8/12/etc) are actually being used in each terrain tile (i.e. one or more splat map pixels) - it should all be just fine?
     
  8. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Awesome. I think this is especially important with trees, as the way the Unity Terrain handles tree billboards is really silly. Too many trees mean extremely pixelated billboards.
     
  9. Wright

    Wright

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    That's right. But I just have to warn you that each biome take it's own generate time, so using 50 biomes with resource intensive generators (I'm speaking mostly about erosion) can make terrain generate really slow.

    Tree types that are not used on the terrain will be cut off too, as well as the objects and grass types.
     
  10. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Great to hear.

    So I had a question with this custom generator I'm writing. I call it an Additive Portal, the purpose of which is to be able to just provide a string key, dump whatever I want into this string additively, and then get it out wherever I want as an output. So basically a portal with an arbitrary amount of inputs. It's been really great for building up complex masks. However, I can't seem to figure out how to make it so that when something changes in a node tree that ends in a Additive Portal in, it invalidates and recalculates the corresponding Out portals.

    You can see the source here: https://github.com/cowtrix/mapmagicfilters/blob/master/AdditivePortal.cs

    There may be some code that doesn't compile and you'll have to comment out, just from some features I've added, and they're all pretty self explanatory. Any idea where I'm going wrong here? I'm pretty sure I'm not understanding the purpose of GenerateRecursive properly, or something like that.

    Also, ETA on the 1.5 version? The beta won't work for me as you ask that no professional work be done with it, and I'm using MM for professional work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  11. ChezDoodles

    ChezDoodles

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    Right - it was just an exaggeration :)

    On the other side - would it make sense to evaluate masks BEFORE the nodes (the actual operations) are executed - I would assume that especially with multiple biomes, this could cause a huge performance increase.
     
  12. Wright

    Wright

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    cowtrix, portals use a simple one in - one out system, I guess making them use several inputs is not an easy task. Maye it will require some hacks to make it work. Why don't you just use blend generator + portal?

    v1.5 is in beta2 stage, and I've got suspiciously few bug reports. If it goes on like this I will submit it in a week.

    ChezDoodles, I have that optimization in my mind, but I decided to make one thing at a time. Firstly I want to do an initial biomes feature, then I'll deal with such an optimizations.
     
    Crossway likes this.
  13. Hakazaba

    Hakazaba

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    Hey, i would like a little bit of help in coding a new generator. I'm trying to make some generators to help with changes over massive scales which change based on the coordinates of the actual terrain sections. How would i access the terrain section coordinates from within a generator?

    I'm planning on effectively making a cone or pyramid generator with the tip at 0,0 and with the edges in a square of 50 terrain sections from there. To do this normally with a simple shape generator. At a large scale eats far too much memory to be useful.

    The reason that I'm interested in doing this, is I'm creating a world map with map magic, It's important that no islands are generated around the edge of the map.

    I'm actually planning three different generators that will hopefully be mostly idendical. One that fits the whole world into two or three terrain sections, One that provides an over world when viewing it closely, and another main game play one that will provide the close detail and objects. Maintaining a reasonable generation time for these levels is important, while also respecting the height of islands and position of other natural features in relation to that scale. It would be nice if there was a generator that only scaled everything in itself, though i have a feeling that would be very inefficient.
     
  14. Crossway

    Crossway

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    Sorry I don't know anything about coding, where should I place this script? how it works?
     
  15. betaFlux

    betaFlux

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    Hi Denis,

    I have some pre-purchase questions.

    Is there or will there ever be support for the A* Pathfinding Project, especially when it comes to infinite terrain? I.e. some API functionality to help with generating grids on new loaded terrain.

    And

    does your Voxel Land work with Map Magic, so you can manipulate the terrain built with Map Magic without the need to code complicated bridges between those two?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  16. Wright

    Wright

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    Hakazaba, to get the terrain coordinates you can use the chunk.coord.x and chunk.coord.z values. Multiplied by MapMagic.instance.resolution these values can give the actual map offset, and by MapMagic.instance.terrainSize - the position of the terrain chunk in scene.

    But if you are going to make a just a cone generator I'd like to recommend you wait a couple of days until the v1.5 will pass Unity review, it has the simple form generator performance improved greatly when using large scales.

    Crossway, you need to assign it to the generated terrain object (along with terrain and terrain collider components) and then press "Export" checkbox. It works as a kind of button and will open up terrain data save dialog, so all you have left to do is to select a file name.

    PS Make sure that Scene Veiw is displayed and ExportTerrainData gizmos are enabled.

    betaFlux, A* Pathfinding Project states that it can generate navmeshes dynamically:
    But I'm not aware if anyone is using it alongside MapMagic.
    BTW Apex Path boasts dynamic pathfinding. Some users claim that they are using Apex Path on infinite terrain.

    I plan to make Voxeland code refactoring and integrate it with MapMagic, it will be my current epic right after I'll deal with the biomes feature. Actually I've already started it, but still cannot say an ETA.
     
    antoripa likes this.
  17. Vortavasail

    Vortavasail

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    looking at the tutorial video there i heard comment about generating water, but did not show because of missing shader.
    Is there a guide or generator for making water somewhere ?
     
  18. Crossway

    Crossway

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    I have this error after compiling this code.

    error CS0136: A local variable named `terrain' cannot be declared in this scope because it would give a different meaning to `terrain', which is already used in a `parent or current' scope to denote something else
     
  19. Wright

    Wright

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    Crossway, did you download the script using the given link or created the new one and paste the code?

    Vortavasail, to create water I've used a third party asset named AQUAS-Lite. It has all the necessary shaders included along with the docs and tutorials of how they could be used.
     
  20. Vortavasail

    Vortavasail

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    i'm kind of lost with that response.

    what i'm asking is there a way to generate water planes along the shore lines.


    or make a pool of water in land mass well i can use scatter for that. but to generate oscans between land mas is what i'm missing.
     
  21. DamirS

    DamirS

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    Aug 28, 2013
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    Hello,

    bought that Package and love it.
    Now i have an Error. The Standard Terrain Shader is giving me holes in mey mesh when splatting ?! The Standard Diffuse and Specular not.
    Any ideas ?

    Unity 5.4p2
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Wright

    Wright

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    Terrain opacity with the standard shader! That is really unusual, does the same happens when you manually assign these textures to the terrain?
     
  23. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Will the next epic be to make a system like no man sky? :p

    Also how does the system handle the spawning of POI, I mean how does he adapt the terrain below the POI? in no man sky they seems to pick the current height, then flatten the whole terrain at the same level of that point around a radius with decaying edges.

    I'm only mad no man sky did what I always wanted to do, colored space! :mad: I was certain that an evolution beyond te military/nasa aesthetics would be striking, they did it :oops:
     
  24. DamirS

    DamirS

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    Funny Thing - setting the Textures to
    Yes ... its the same Error. So no fault of MM ;)
    This must be a Bug with Alpha Channel creation or File Format handling in Unity. When i manually set an Image Format nonalpha like DXT1 or 24Bit its totally fine.

    Cheers
     
  25. Wright

    Wright

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    You can do literally the same with the MM's Flatten Generator - it will make a terrain around a target object (or a virtual target object) flat in a certain radius blending with a certain fallof.

    To my shame I have not looked into No Man's Sky - mainly because of the negative reviews combined with such a high price. Right now I have a clear plans what should I do in MM, and to draw inspiration from No Man's Sky for the new features I'd better wait for the Steam sales.

    The odd thing is that I'm using clear 5.4f3, but could not reproduce the bug no matter I try. Maybe they added a terrain opacity feature in the patch, but the release notes does not mention any new feature at all, just the fixes.
     
    Hellhound_01 likes this.
  26. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    There is no shame, No man sky do nothing special, it's just a planetary voxel landscape that is procedurally generated, using the inflated cube model, with seamless transition from space to planet. It does the typical stuff except don't have multiple biomes per planets, and I'm still trying to figures out a way to populate cave like they do. They seems to have a mostly real time art directed procedural algorithm that have polish parameters like we haven't seen yet, they mostly lack consideration about generating circulation path, but that's most people out there ...

    I have pet peeve in that they could have save performance because they don't need .25/.50m voxel resolution (I would use 2/4m, which make it great for circulation), which mean they lack big mountains and big low frequency landmark and have too much hi frequency variations that is not useful (also I would push same data into individual voxel objects instead of adding them directly to the base terrain). Object also lack variation in the middle frequency variation (like trees) which would add a lot of visual flair at literally no cost (in fact one lauded mod do just that).

    Here is my overall rough breakdown of their real time generation:
    A. Voxel phases (maybe using dual contouring)
    1. generate 2d fbm heightmap
    2. add generated 3d perlin worm for overhang and interesting features
    3. carve (substract) cave with 3d perlin worm

    4. spawn (add) planet signature shapes with one random superformula stamp or other 3d math formula
    5. spawn (add) mineral vein shapes
    6. spawn POI terrain adjustment base on coordinate heightmap, flatten terrain around a radius, spawn POI structure on top

    B. Objects phase
    7. spawn vegetation
    8. spawn decoration and resources
    9. spawn animal

    You can pick them up watching video and image. Gameplay is bare bone survival stuff to keep you busy.

    So if you implement a voxel map magic, the next EPIC step is to make it compatible with planet generation (ie non flat oriented terrain with Y up). :D
     
  27. andrewex1

    andrewex1

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    I purchased your plugin yesterday and am really enjoying using it. I am having a issue where the terrains are not welding properly as seen in the image blow.


     
  28. Obsurveyor

    Obsurveyor

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    Wright and neoshaman like this.
  29. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Yeah I have seen it, it was sure at time of writing lol (that's where I picked the inflated cube).
     
  30. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Check the transform scale of the map magic object and its parents, and set it to (1,1,1)

    @Wright : any update on 1.5?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  31. reocwolf

    reocwolf

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    Hi, so I'm new to Map Magic and I'm using the Island Tutorial Demo scene to check out the nodes and how it works etc. But when it generates, the terrain goes almost flat. Any Idea why? IDK if its the island height map that its missing?
     
  32. Wright

    Wright

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    andrewex1, if the scale, like cowtrix said, is okay then please send me the scene to mail@denispahunov.ru

    It's pending Unity review. It will take some time, maybe up to 5 business days.

    reocwolf, does the other demo scene (that is named literally - DemoScene) work fine?
     
  33. Kusras

    Kusras

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    Hi Wright, I found again one little disturbing problem. unity grass output does not have checker for billboard - you set it by default to false everytime mm recalculate. And I have a fern, which looks bad from sharop angles (is not so dense as other grass so it is visible) and it is way much better to have it as billboard and need to set it manually to billboard after each time i touch graph editor. Could you please add this option to mm? Thanks.

    And note could you add one special usefull thing for grasses? Default colours for new added type? When youi use photo grass you need white color and I am angry when I have to set 40th grass from green to white again (not your fault I understand that unity has green by default, but it is driving me mad, that green color :D) And I believe most of us is not using grayscale grass
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  34. Mirace

    Mirace

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    Hello Wright! And thank you for creating such nice tool ,I bought it today!

    I would like to know procedure if i want to design my map borders by hand on external software ( like in photoshop ) and then apply that map design to MM and create hills and stuff.

    Thank you in advance !
     
  35. Wright

    Wright

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    New version, 1.5 is out.

    Change log:
    - Biome support: now you can mix different unrelated graphs in one, blending them with the biomes masks.
    - New serialization algorithm (fixed lag on connections change and generator remove, fixed nodes disappearing on changing data file outside Unity)
    - New simplified way of placing objects on the terrain height: instead of using the floor generator you can simply enable the checkbox in objects output.
    - Allowance to create multiple output generators in a single graph (in this case height output is applying additive). Now a large list of object or tree outputs could be split in several generators.
    - Editor GUI improvements:
    - the single "Generate" button is now split in two: Force Generate All and Generate Changed. The first one rebuilds terrain from scratch, the other one generates only changed generators when the Instant Generate is turned off;
    - Focus button can quickly pan the graph window to the center of the generators - it could be very useful when switching between biomes;
    - Current zoom value is displayed in top right corner. Clicking on it will return the default zoom.​
    - Custom camera objects with tags to generate terrain around;
    - Improved performance of a Raw, Texture and Simple Form generators when using a large scale.

    Scene and data upgrade procedure: despite of the new serializer v1.5 can load the scenes saved with previous versions. However some manual changes could be required:
    - All of the portal names should be re-entered. All of the portal connections remain unchanged.
    - Output layers names should be re-entered too;
    - Floor generators does not work anymore and should be removed;
    - Now to place object on terrain "Relative Height" should be enabled in Tree or Object Output generator;
    - "Use Multiple Cameras" now replaced with an tagged objects. If you want to spawn terrain around several cameras assign them some tag and turn "Spawn Around Tagged" feature on in General Settings;
    - And as usual it's better to replace all of the legacy generators with the new analogs.

    Kusras, you can change the grass output layer Mode value to Grass Billboard - this will do the trick.
    I'm taking the default Unity colors for grass, but you are right, I don't like them either - they are too saturated.

    Mirace, thanks! What do you mean under the borders? Are you trying to keep the terrain edges fixed changing only it's central part? Or you are just trying to mix external map with procedural terrain the way shown here?
     
  36. Kusras

    Kusras

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    Eh i was a lazy :D I thought that mode is only grass/mesh and did not open it... this make that trick, thanks. Sorry that i am sometimes writting about stuff you did.

    I uploaded to a newer version got like 20errors that you moved some scripts to other folder leading to duplicate scripts and their namespaces. After I deleted dupllications an error occured: ProceduralDataHolder.cs(8,33) the nested type chunk does not exist in the type Mapmagic.MapMagic. Followed by error with UnityEngine.GUI makes scene window unable to render

    Solved: removed MapMagic from MapMagic.Chunk

    Note MM did not lost references to terrain as I wrote at first time, just raw inputs paths.... so it is working :)

    Note2 : Documentation is not up to the date. Wanted to find why blob+clean up does not solve this problem, and these generators are not there. I want to delete objects which are too close to each others. I can play with seeds or anything to get rid off that, but always there is at least one couple so near to each other and with sound it makes artifacts in sound. (for better understand that sound is water shore sound)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  37. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Good stuff Wright, working on upgrading now.

    One confusion I've hit straight away with the Biomes - the export option now saves out a .nodes file, but a Biome generator will only take the old GeneratorAsset ScriptableObject. How do we now export a node tree for use in a Biome?

    Why do we now have the two different things - .nodes files and GeneratorAssets, which seem to be pretty much the same. I can see you're doing it to do your own serialization - but why? What problems did you have with the old serialization?

    Edit: on further investigation it seems that old GeneratorAssets do not load at all. So are they now obsolete? I was under the impression this was supposed to be backwards compatible?

    Edit2: Well I'm assuming they are not obsolete, because biomes are integrated so heavily with them and can still save and use them, and biomes are a new feature...
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  38. Hexaedre

    Hexaedre

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    Hi,

    I am using World Machine and Terrain Composer, but I plan to use Map Magic instead.
    I started to play with MM and was very happy, until I realise the Y-spin limitation for the objects/trees rotation.

    The request has already been made by cowtrix and I want to know if you plan to add rotations and scales in all 3 axis ?
    If not, saddly I will probably have to reconsider the use of MM...

    Except for that, MM is really a great asset.

    Also, cowtrix successfully created a good looking Warp node, it would be very nice to have it in MM.

    That would be absolutely amazing. Did you achieved that ? Would you share it to Wright so maybe he can implement it in MM ?
     
  39. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    Hey Hexaedre, yes I've successfully extended MM to support both arbitrary scale and rotation. If you're a coder, it's a pretty trivial change to do yourself. It isn't a complex change, it's just a difference in design. The Warp generator and others are available in my repo (as well as custom partial classes for many MM classes).

    I am unable to share my whole extended MM though, unfortunately, as I do not have redistribution rights (also it's getting very integrated with Hurtworld code), so it's kind of like I'm giving you half a jigsaw puzzle and you'll have to fill in the rest yourself.
     
  40. Wright

    Wright

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    cowtrix, import and export options just store the whole graph, groups or single generators in an XML-like format. Since it is not the full data they could not be used as a biome - that's why they have have a different extension.

    The data for the biome could be created by pressing "Save" button next to data slot in General Settings.

    Maybe I should make a file format selection when exporting the whole graph to prevent such a confusion.

    Hexaedre, here is a way to align objects to the terrain normals:
     
  41. jjsonick

    jjsonick

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    *moved to more recent thread*
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  42. malkere

    malkere

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    I think this should have been in your new thread! moving it now
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  43. cowtrix

    cowtrix

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    What do you mean by this? How is a GeneratorsAsset ScriptableObject not enough information to be used as a biome - what information isn't there?

    This makes me very sad. MapMagic appears to be going down a much more restrictive path with biomes than I originally thought it would, and I do not really understand why. Why can we not make shared assets for biomes? If I define somewhere in my project what a "desert" is, it seems under this architecture that I can only do this in a single scene, and if I then change what a desert is I must manually apply these changes to every level where a desert occurs. This makes MM pretty much unusable out of the box for games that don't take place in one big level.

    Also, could you please elaborate why you moved to this different serialization? What will break if I move it back to the old one? As it now seems I now must rewrite a lot of this code.
     
  44. Wright

    Wright

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  45. antoripa

    antoripa

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    Hi,
    I have few question :
    1) Can the generator spawns POI ( as specific building, or enemies spawns ) in the runtime mode ( I mean when terrains are created during playing for infinite world ) ?
    2) Is there any process, even manually, to create river or lakes ?
    3) what are the asset included to build terrain ?
    4) Is there any apporach to create villages spawining it ?
     
  46. Wright

    Wright

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    Hi :)

    You can spawn any prefab you like (including a house or enemy npc) using the Object Output Generator. And you can set up the nodes before the generator to place an objects in some desired places of interest.

    Well, talking about rivers - no. Unless you will literally will manually paint the rivers on the pinned terrains.
    And the lakes could be created in the lowlands, using the shore generator and object output to place water planes.

    All the assets seen in demo scene and island tutorial are included - except AQUAS-Lite free water shader and the standard post-processing effects.
    And if you mean what terrain engine is used by MMWG - it uses the standard Unity terrains, so no special asset is required to use them.

    You can create villages spawning houses around some central (maybe virtual) object. There is no way to build village roads, streets, pavements, etc., but some rural small hamlets could actually be created.
     
  47. antoripa

    antoripa

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Posts:
    1,163
    Hi,
    thanks for your answer. I already use AQUAS ( the full version ) so that is fine.
    I have another question. Can I spawn objects according to the color of the texture on the terrain ?
     
  48. SSL7

    SSL7

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Posts:
    347
    Hello everyone,

    I bought this asset and all is fine, but i m a little worried about the end result. What i mean is that i m trying to make a huge world like the demo (10x10 terrains) but i dont find the way i will make the final build with all these terrains included.

    When i enable all terrains they dont update unless i go near, and when i disable the near camera generator unity stucks..

    What is the procedure to build a final project with such a huge map?

    Thank you.
     
  49. Wright

    Wright

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Posts:
    2,266
    Hi. You don't need to enable (I guess pin) all of the terrains to include them in build. It is common to pin just some of them where you have a villages or any other custom adjustments. The other terrains are not displayed, but they will appear once you start the game - and this will happen both in editor playmode and in a game build.
     
  50. Crossway

    Crossway

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Posts:
    507
    My map is big but now I have this error with the last version of Map Magic and Unity 5.4.1f1

     
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