[OPINION] A Fair Quote?

I have recently spoke with a few artists about having a complete single room level designed from head to toe for my demo reel. What I am wondering is what you guys would either expect to pay, or expect to be paid as an artist. I am just trying to see if what I am about to pay is within a fair ballpark for what I am going to be getting, because it is quite steep.

The level I am having designed is a single room with 3 floors. The first floor is comprised of 6 highly detailed peices of machinery; 4 hydro-electric generators and 2 large reactors. Both the generators and reactors will be copies after he designs the first one. The space of the first floor will be relatively open so I can test out several dynamics I am putting together. The 2nd floor will be more or less a catwalk but slightly wider. There will be 6 fluid-containing devices/tube that will be feeding into the hydro-gens. In the central area of the 2nd floor the catwalk will lead to the rooms main control room for operating the machinery. The control room will have an advanced computer system designed to allow be to upload Scaleform style interactive UI elements on a hover display. And the last space will be a crawl area under the main level. I want to test out the dynamics of crawling in tight spaces so I came up with a way to do that by needing to crawl under the floor to fix broken wiring on the reactors underside.

Everything in the level will use the best shaders possible that the artist can create and all textures , both static and animated will be made by him as well. All the models and props will be custom as he has already done all the concept drawings for me to show where he wants to take it.

So based on all that, as a designer or an artist, what would you expect to pay or be payed. Also it is going to take roughly 5-6 weeks to complete if that factors in.

EDIT: This will be done in his spare time, not as a full time job, as that seems to be what people are thinking.

 

It is in negotiation.

 

The contract is about to be finalized and drawn up, I just wanted the communities opinion.

 

It seems highly detailed, as you said, but there isn't a humongous amount to be made. It's one room with repeating objects. I put $1000 - $1500.

 

What do you think an artist should be paid an hour? Multiply that by 40 hours a week for six weeks.

$5/hr? $1200.
$20/hr? $4800.
$40/hr? $9600.

You made $2500 your top price. That's $10.42 an hour, about minimum wage.

 

Oh 5x6 weeks, 40 hours a week
2500 / 200 = 12.5
2500 / 240 = 10.4

Oh good luck with that.

 

I guess I should have stated this earlier; This will not be his full time job, but rather his side project that only a small portion of his time is spent on. That is the reason I was quote 5-6 weeks. So the assumption that I am paying him minimum wage is not accurate in this case. This is why I was asking the objective opinion for you guys though. I wanted to see what a project like this might normally cost.

 

Que? Ok, whatever...

$2500/(6 weeks x 20 hours a week) = $20.83 an hour.

That is approximately what a 2nd year apprentice plumber or electrician makes in a major city.

 

I think maybe it may be misunderstood here that this is not the only money the guy is receiveing, he already has a full-time job as an artist. This is a project he took on because he wanted the experience of building this type of level outside his work for his portfolio as well, which has played a factor into the quote I was given. Even at the estimate above of $20.83/hr, that is only slightly below what the average wage is for a 3d artist in my city as cited by Glassdoor. Being an indie developer, I think he is full well aware that the project in it's current state of not going to spend $20000 for a room. Plus I do believe he is trying to build up a lasting relationship with the team to hopefully be granted to further work on the project once our prototyping has been completed.

 

?

Every time there is some new info that we have absolutely no way of knowing.

It doesn't change anything. Compare whatever you want to pay him to a job with a similar amount of training and education and decide if you are getting a good deal.

 

Trust me, I do see where you are going. I fully understand we are all here doing what we do because we love it and want to make money doing it. The only reason I posted the numbers the way I did was because of the price that was decided and quoted by the artist, not the amount of money I was trying to only get away with paying him.

 

I agree. Other stuff he may or may not be doing to make money is irrelevant. Is what you're going to get from him worth to you what he's asking for? And can you get the same thing elsewhere for less? Of the answers are "yes" and "no", respectively, then it's a no-brainer.

 

I don't see how part time or full time changes it. While it may seem like it is taking a while to complete, the only reason for it is the fact he only works on it in his spare time. So for the people that think he is making a low wage, that is far from the truth. I was asking more what you think the total package should roughly run based on your experiences. He obviously feels the price is well worth it because he is the one that quoted me the price.

 

The elapsed time is of course irrelevant - the actual time he takes is important. How many hours is he intending to take to complete the work?

Normally you would expect a discount as it is a part time job and additional extra income/delivered over an extended period of time. Some artists might decide there was significant value to having this stuff in their portfolio and offer a discount for that.

The classic problems of developments like this are an incompetent artist taking 3x the amount of time it should take to do something and charging you for that time (or vice versa with a programmer) - an experienced artist won't be learning as they go and can frequently be much cheaper as they will just do the job, inspire the developer and not be stuck in rework.

Bottom line - it's hours taken minus hours of the artist learning level design skills to an acceptable level. Impossible to predict what the right price is without detailed knowledge of the artist and the project... Isn't that always the problem with budgets

 

If this guy has years of experience and you see that his portfolio is pro, you should be paying well over $2,500.

 

Thank you for the feedback and I do respect your opinion. As stated the only reason he is getting any certain amount is because of what he decided was fair and he wanted for his time with the job.

 

This is what he is doing and basing his price off of. The total package.

 

I wouldnt waste my time on anything less than 2500. I wouldnt consider myself pro but I have worked for awhile in the industry at companies and contracting. Everyone's price is going to be different, but if you are paying too cheap then really look at the freelancer's work to make sure there is consistency in their portfolio. I cant tell you how many times I will lose a client to a cheaper contractor but they come back regretting it. Usually experienced artist run higher but they will get the technical details right, not just the aesthetics.

-Dane

 

10k sounds fair. Perhaps 20k.

 

Also think 10-20k.

 

As long as his name isn't JoshSG1 then you're golden with that price!

 

A good rule for estimating this sort of thing, other than, you know, nailing down the exact requirements, is to make sure the scale you're using is logarithmic.

For example, you know it's not $10. Or $100. It could be $1000 but that is unlikely. So now you're up to $10,000 as your guess, but you definitely know it's not $100,000. At this point you either hunker down around the low part of the formula ($5-$30k) or you need to figure out if it's closer to, say, $70,000. At which point you need to just bump your estimate up to $100,000.

Also keep in mind that anyone with any real skill in this industry is going to command at least $100k per year, give or take. Plus benefits. Plus overhead.

 

Actually no. I have talked to a few veterans of the industry - producing some of the best quality and best value art I've seen - and for all of them their hourly freelance rate was substantially lower than $100k/year. That said, they tend to get hired off by huge internationals before long.

From the sounds of this level I'd be expecting to pay a lot - at least $5k and possibly the $10k+ some people mentioned depending on the artists and level of detail required.

That said, if the artist can do it in 5*20 = 100 hours, and is doing it partly as a portfolio piece then the $2500 doesn't sound too bad for both parties. I'd hazard a guess to say it might take a bit longer, or there's some compromise on quality [or very smart tricks by the artist], so I'd have a contingency plan in that situation.

 

Over $2500 (judging on how many hours I think a job like that would take, to a decent or greater level of quality). If he is very skilled and experienced, then well over that amount.

Would be helpful to provide a link to this person's portfolio if they have one so we can get a better idea of their skills.

 

We also have it built in to sell the asset once it has been made and displayed in the demo, and he is to receive a majority share in the profits it generates. I see that the general consensus is it should definitely be above $2500, and I respect that, but as I stated, he took this on because he found it valuable to add to his portfolio, and I have thoroughly reviewed the quality of his work. I am much more at ease about it as well because this is what he does for his day job as well.

 

I think if you put it in this context:

He's going to produce a high quality scene worth say $5k [based on his time estimates], but I'm getting a 50% discount in return for profit share usage as a portfolio piece he wants to do.

It's not a bad deal. As a programmer I'd be happy to make a similar deal with someone if I believed in the project, had spare time to burn etc. Hell, even without the discount I've seen pretty fantastic artists work at similar rates - and by being part time you're paying him for time that would otherwise be wasted.

 

To be honest we don't have enough info to be able to assign an accurate value. If I were to give your description to one of the artists at work and ask them to do something for that cost I'd think they could come up with something pretty decent. Of course, my idea of "decent" could be quite different to yours, and that impacts how much it would cost. They'd also want to know about target platform, any performance metrics they need to keep in mind, any special scene structure or technical approach stuff, and so on so that they know enough to actually do the job properly and in a way that'll work for its intended purpose, and again they'll impact the potential cost.

I certainly can't agree with some of the higher figures quoted here, though. Even if it's fully custom and "AAA" quality, I can't imagine what the artist could possibly do to spend $20,000 worth of time at any reasonable rate of pay without wasting most of it. To put that into context, that's in the ballpark of 4 to 6 months worth of pay for a professional 3D artist in my part of the world.

From the sounds of it, I'd say that the given price is a pretty reasonable on for both parties. You get what you want for a price you're willing to pay, and he's doing work he's comfortable with for a price he's comfortable with.

 

I could not agree more. While the room he is designing is only going to be a single room, yes with some highly detailed object, but it will mostly will be just copy paste and move things around to make it all look a bit more organic. And considering it is being done in his spare time at only a few hours a week, I cant see some of the outlandish prices people think should be commended for this. I would think that the artists who responded to my initial request in the first place would probably have a god understand that, as far as I know, no indie game studio is going to have such high figures to hand over for just a single demo room.

 

Wait, what, "this will use the best shaders possible and yada yada", which means you want an artist to create high poly models to create good normal and AO bakes in for 3 rooms worth of machinery and textures, animated textures and every texture map under the sun created... and you want it done in 5-6 weeks of the artist's spare time and you want to pay them at most $2.5k to do it?

You'll get one of those things, if you're lucky.

You'd better knock the quality you're after on the head if you want it done in that time with that pay.

You'd better up the payscale if you want that quality and that time.

You'd better up the timescale and the pay if you want it done to that quality.


To put this in context, I once did a contract for 2 levels worth of tiling textures with normal and spec maps for £2k (about $3.25 - 3.5k) done in my "spare time" and I got totally screwed on that deal. The amount of work involved was far more than the pay was worth. You're asking for a lot more than that for less money.

Also, that's not "spare time", if you're paying him to make stuff that is work time - don't think an artist would choose to do your work for crappy pay in his spare time.

I'd want $10k for that and that'd include the fee for your attitude towards the artist

 

I'd like to know how you get businesses for work for 6 months for $10k? Where I live the going rate for costing people is $500-1000 per day, per person.

That's funny, actually I know someone who adds on an additional "awkward customer fee".

 

Honestly it's worth doing. I've been screwed over so much by awkward clients.

I always ensure that I have strict limits on revisions and iterations laid out in the contract, too, and that any more than the specified amount of revisions will cost extra.

 

This is all great feedback I am glad I asked. Yes he is working for less then what most of you believe he should be, but our contract has been built around the fact that he is essentially being funded to create an asset which will be sold on the asset store, of which, he retains the majority of the profits from it. That asset will however be first used in our demo video to showcase what it is we are trying to accomplish with this project,

As for the attitude comment however, I do not think it is fair to assume I have had a bad attitude with anyone I have dealt with thus far. He is the one who provided the terms for the contract, not myself.