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[Official] Particle System [Shuriken] Improvements

Discussion in 'General Graphics' started by bibbinator, May 26, 2014.

  1. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    Yeah, here: https://forum.unity.com/threads/world-space-trail-textures.1107392/#post-7637740

    Maybe there would be a way to implement something to cope with simple use cases. I'm not sure. I'll have a think about it. Thanks for the feedback!
     
  2. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    Ok, I know I'm asking for things all the time, but can we also have an option to add a random offset on the X and Y UV coordinate per trail / ribbon? Since Trails/Ribbons don't accept Custom Data there's just no way to have a randomised offset. It all just looks very repetitive (which is fine in some cases, but in most cases is not).
    image_2022-07-25_130616893.png
     
  3. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    Would it possible to get Sorting Fudge for trails? It seems to be only available for Billboards and Meshes but not for Trails.
    image_2022-09-06_112134711.png
     
  4. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    :D

    I'll add it to our roadmap but we are trying to avoid messing with the Particle System code other than for bug fixes.
    (sorry for the slow reply - I was away for a while!)

    Yes this is a mistake in the UI code that hides various fields. for what it's worth, you could set this via script and it should work. I'll fix the UI code so it doesn't get hidden.
     
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  5. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    I hope you had a good time off!

    I know, I know, but one can only hope good chap Richard can squeeze in a feature or two here and there for us VFX folks destined to work with Shuriken :rolleyes:

    Oh, would it also be possible to get "Apply Active Color Space" and "Visualise Pivot" toggles visible for Trails too? :D
     
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  6. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    Apply Active Color Space should apply to trails too imo. That would be worth making a bug report for.

    What would that look like?

    :D
     
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  7. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    It does work as it should but I often only render trails and set Render Mode:None and this makes the "apply active color space" tickbox disappear from the UI. I have to change Render Mode back to somthing else than None to make the tickbox visible.

    This is the same for visualise pivot. It works as I would expect it to work with ribbons and trails but the tickbox simply doesn't show up when Render Mode is set to None.
     
  8. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    Ah sorry I see what you mean - just that the UI disappears in the same way. I will make it always show those too then, thanks!
     
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  9. Archanor

    Archanor

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    Is your focus still only on the VFX graph? Do you have any further plans for Shuriken (or things you'd personally add or improve on with the system) ?

    Also I was wondering about some terminology- how come it's called 'Rotation over Lifetime' when it functions more like 'Rotation (Degrees) per second'? That also makes me think it would be useful having a option to rotate it exactly a set amount of degrees over a particles lifetime- especially if you have a random lifetime between two constants.
     
  10. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    VFX Graph has a proper team working on it, whereas Shuriken just has me a bit of the time, so all I can do is fix a few bugs mostly. This is because the high level unity vision is that more and more projects will be able to use vfx graph in the future. (And will choose to) Admittedly that means that team may have to close the feature gaps at some point. I wonder - do teams choose to still use the particle system, or is it only used because they work on platforms where vfx graph isn’t supported? Or in the “old” built-in renderer, of course.. or because re-using art content that was made in Shuriken? Does anyone use it just because they think it’s better?

    Personally, there are still things I would add if we were doing feature work for it (a good event system to let you hook into particle births and deaths, springs to mind! I always wanted to add that)

    I thought the rotation module did work “over lifetime” I.e if you use a curve, the curve sets the rotation through the life of the particle. But I may be totally misremembering this and probably you’re right :) but anyway I suppose whatever the names are, everything will stay just as it is. It does sound useful to have both modes you are describing though, for sure.
     
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  11. bgolus

    bgolus

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    I can tell you from my experience that we used Shuriken because the URP wasn't ready for prime time in the time frame where changing render pipelines was viable. In some ways still isn't ready.
     
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  12. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    We use Shuriken because when we started on VFX for the project little over a year ago, VFX graph wasn't compatible with URP to a satisfactory level and it has had dubious support for mobile devices (we aim PC + mobile). So Shuriken was the only available option really. On top of that, the messaging at that time was VFX graph would be for high-end compute mobile devices only, which in our case was too limiting. We want to release on high-end mobiles but not all of them have compute capabilities as of today. I've seen that VFX graph will be able to run on the CPU at some point tho.

    Now we already have a massive library of VFX made with Shuriken so even if VFX graph would support URP and non-compute mobiles (or we decide to only support mobile compute), we wouldn't want to end up supporting two different particle systems. We'd love to transition at some point but damn, this might be too much work for us. Maybe if there was a VFX Graph supplied by Unity that replicates all Shuriken modules so that we don't have to set it all up from scratch?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2022
  13. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    As far as I'm aware, that is a long way out.

    I heard talk some time ago internally about providing some "sub-graphs" for VFX Graph that attempted to replicate each Shuriken module. I think initially intended as a way of making it easier for users to transition/learn the new tool. I guess a stretch goal would be to be able to use it to auto-upgrade Shuriken content, too. I'm not sure if any of this is being worked on though.
     
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  14. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    This would be a great way of helping teams like mine to transition to the new shiny tool. Our team could certainly re-create all the features we've been using in Shuriken, but the up-front time cost is quite high and development never sleeps!
     
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  15. Archanor

    Archanor

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    I've been working on particle assets just about every day for the Asset Store the last 8 years, so Shuriken is just burnt into my brain. I like the compact list view of all the modules and it's very fast and easy to work with it. I can't give much feedback on VFX Graph yet, but it seems similar to Shader Graph where my problem is that I forget the names of the modules I need to search for.

    I would love to support my shuriken VFX for all 3 pipelines, but there are minor differences that makes it more difficult, e.g. in HDRP there is no 'Standard Particle Shader' - which would be super useful, considering the amount of useful packs that are available on the Asset Store.

    From what I've read, I believe both Shuriken and VFX Graph has their strengths and weaknesses, so I don't see why they can't both be valid choices for the different pipelines.
     
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  16. michalpiatek

    michalpiatek

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    VFX Graph is more modern and adjusted to modern hardware architecture. It can take in way more data types, simulate more particles and has much more flexible behaviours set. At the end of the day, more suited for any VFX task. When CPU simulation pass will be introduced there will be very little reasons to stay with Shuriken, apart from having it run on legacy or ongoing projects. The only thing you'd loose with VFX graph is the UI layout, which I believe will be possible to re-introduce with clever param organisation and some custom editor scripting.
     
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  17. Moonjump

    Moonjump

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    I have not touched VFX graph yet, but looking at images, it appears to use visual coding, so I hate it already. I though the user interface of Shuriken was a step down from the legacy particle system because of those fiddly little windows playing around with lines in tiny boxes. This looks another step down.