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Oct 2019 Update on Project Tiny & roadmap

Discussion in 'Project Tiny' started by JC-Cimetiere, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

    Unity Technologies

    Joined:
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    Last week at Unite Copenhagen 2019 we presented an update on the Project Tiny Roadmap.
    Our session was recorded and you can watch it here, and you’ll find below a quick summary.

    Project Tiny’s goals to deliver “a highly-modular runtime to produce small, light, and fast games/experiences” hasn’t changed. However, some aspects have been adjusted based on your feedback and the roadmap has changed.

    Project Tiny is DOTS Runtime (Data Oriented Stack)
    Initial previews of Project Tiny embraced the Data Oriented approach but had its own specific implementation (including the use of TypeScript), which allowed us to experiment, challenge and validate some key assumptions. Over time Project Tiny evolved to fully rely on DOTS components and C#, forming the DOTS Runtime.



    A more unified authoring experience for Project Tiny
    As announced in the last post, we’ve aligned the authoring experience on the DOTS conversion workflow, which allows you to work with GameObjects as you already know it, while easily convert into optimal ECS-based data at runtime. This conversion pipeline is shared with the Unity/DOTS features approach.

    Check the demo here to learn more.


    Deployment targets will include mobile in addition to HTML5 and 3D is a must
    HTML5 and 2D are important, but for Project Tiny to be a complete solution we heard the feedback that targeting Mobile platforms and supporting 3D were must have features.

    Starting with the next preview we will bring support for iOS & Android in addition to HTML5, so you can target a wider range of scenarios like Mobile, Playable Ads and Instant social experiences.

    To clarify the focus for Project Tiny, our goal is to make Project Tiny the solution to produce hyper casual games whether 2D or 3D.



    What’s next?
    We are planning to deliver the next preview with 3D and support for iOS/Android/HTML5 in Q4 2019. It’s very likely that the next preview is 3D only, while full 2D support will be coming back later.

    Full support for 2D / 3D/ AR combined is targeted for 2020. We plan on delivering frequent previews adding features incrementally and refine the roadmap as we get feedback.

    If you haven’t started yet experimenting with Project Tiny, we recommend that you wait until the next preview before testing it. We are aware that the current Project Tiny package (preview-0.16.1) is broken with the latest beta and its dependencies, and we do not plan to fix this until the next preview.

    If you want to get a head start, the best is to get familiar with DOTS in general. Start here, and check the DOTS related sessions presented at the last Unite like Converting your game to DOTS and Converting Scene data to DOTS which are already available (the complete Unite Copenhagen playlist is here).

    If you are currently working with preview-0.16.1, keep in mind that content you’ve authored in current preview of Project Tiny will have to be reworked and C# code will also need some adjustments. There won’t be any automated upgrade to the next preview.

    Thanks again for your feedback and engagement!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  2. Manny_bit

    Manny_bit

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    Amazing job guys! Really appreciate the update! But why not first fully support 2D? Before moving on to 3D support and IOS/Android?
     
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  3. vincismurf

    vincismurf

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    Yeah I highly await the next release
     
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  4. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

    Unity Technologies

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    On why 2D likely not in the next preview: we're doing lots of work to take Unity current 2D feature set to DOTS, and so we took a step back to do it in the right order now that we changed and solidified the authoring approach based on DOTS conversion workflow.

    We are doing our best to bring 2D back as soon as possible.
    JC
     
  5. andyz

    andyz

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    Will it not be the focus for all future webgl/html content authored with Unity too?
    Because unless browser supporters (particularly apple/safari) change then memory and energy (cpu/gpu) costs are a bit high with normal Unity right now and a framework focused on optimising these things might provide solutions
     
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  6. GliderGuy

    GliderGuy

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    While 2D support being removed and pushed back until a future update isn't exactly awesome... 3D support is going to be a literal game changer for Project Tiny! Sure, I don't have any 3D games on my list that I want to make as of now, but I fully support the decisions Unity is making and the direction they are deciding to go (they are a lot smarter than me after all). Thank you Project Tiny Team for working so hard, and thank you JC-Cimetiere for keeping us updated on the forums while we wait! Your effort is much appreciated! <3
     
    NightOwl444, ex_dev and Manny_bit like this.
  7. Maras

    Maras

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    Thank you for the summary. While I was a bit sceptical about "GO to entities" approach, I have now full confidence that it is the right thing to do.

    How much effort will be put into web targets? I think Unity Tiny would be great in pushing the boundaries of HTML5 games forward. Right now most of the games are super simple. Mainly because the performance plummets with more complex games when on the web on a low-end device.
     
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  8. Ofreyre

    Ofreyre

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    I have been using Tiny preview-0.16.1 (C#) for some weeks and it already has good support for super casual games except for:
    • fbinstant sdk, facebook IAP and monetization
    • Networking
    Any plan to integrate fbinstant sdk, facebook IAP and monetization?
    Any plan for networking?

    I think that by giving support for these could let many people to publish games made with Tiny asap. Indeed I have finished a casual game, but I'm missing fb integration and monetization.

    PD: Also I can't compile to AsmJS with jobs in my project, although I could for dotnet.
     
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  9. RealMTG

    RealMTG

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    Great to see progress moving along but also quite sad to see 2D being put on hold. It was what I was personally most interested in.
    But I also wonder, will standalones be supported? Seeing as you can apparently debug on Windows in a standalone build, it would seem very odd not to support it. I can't see it mentioned anywhere either, hence why I need to ask.
    I would love to make 2D games, both for web and desktop with Tiny. To me the entirety of Unity feels overkill for the kind of games I want to create.
     
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  10. gamayun

    gamayun

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    Great work Unity team! Can't wait to use the next package. Q4 seems sooooo long to me :)
     
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  11. nonameoky

    nonameoky

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    We are planning to deliver the next preview with 3D and support for iOS/Android/HTML5 in Q4 2019. It’s very likely that the next preview is 3D only, while full 2D support will be coming back later.!!!!!!!!!!!!

    :eek::(:(:(:(:(:(:( so long to me...
     
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  12. nonameoky

    nonameoky

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    Project Tiny 1.0!! please!!!!!!!! thank you!!
     
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  13. Thaina

    Thaina

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    Thanks for the very valuable warning and suggestions. This is what we really needed. We want to know the correct roadmap to decide should we wait and what we should do while waiting

    This is crucial that we should not play with the preview for now and should just start with DOTS instead
     
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  14. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

    Unity Technologies

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    On platforms support (HTML5/WebGL, desktop) related questions:
    We will focus on making Project Tiny fully optimized for HTML5/WebGL (no canvas) scenarios, including "Mobile Web". As said in my initial post Playable Ads and Instant games are still very much a target we will support. For desktop (standalone) runtime, we currently have Project Tiny builds working on desktop (windows/mac for now) mostly for the purpose of debugging and fast iteration. We will prioritize getting mobile (iOS/Android) platforms ready for production first, and then work on the desktop builds production support.

    On questions related to Facebook Instant games support:
    While we will make sure our HTML5/WebGL build support standards required by Facebook Instant games, you will still need to do the extra packaging work and API mapping to deploy to their platform. We will enable integrating external SDKs in general but likely we won't provide a "Publish to Facebook" one-click button initially.
     
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  15. Manny_bit

    Manny_bit

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    Why will you guys not support Canvas anymore?
     
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  16. andyz

    andyz

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    Don't know what that is - no canvas, mobile web.
    For ads/insta-play?
    Not sure how big a deal that is compared to working webgl for desktop and mobile if browser support
     
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  17. Ofreyre

    Ofreyre

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    Great news! Just been capable of easily integrate FB SDK to produce commercial casual games will be awesome. I think this will bust DOTS embracement.
     
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  18. eabelard

    eabelard

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    Webgl is a better long term future proof path. The HTML5 canvas has two render context 2d which was the original version and then webgl.

    the webgl context is a close representation of OpenGL ES 2.0, which includes shaders, 2d shapes and other core 3D features. Webgl’s 2d render is faster then the 2d context so using the canvas context is a waste and not possible without extra plugins.

    And as a bonus, webgl 2 is on its way and is backwards compatible with webgl 1.
     
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  19. DoctorShinobi

    DoctorShinobi

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    Hasn't WebGL2 been out for a while now?
     
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  20. eabelard

    eabelard

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    The tech has been ready but only Firefox and Chrome fully support webgl 2 and Open GL 3.0. Edge and Safari don't support it and require enabling experimental features. Take a look at these examples of webgl 2 features. I hope this helps.

    http://webglsamples.org/WebGL2Samples/#glsl_flat_smooth_interpolators
    browser_webgl_support_edithson_abelard.png
     
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  21. Kiori

    Kiori

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    For the record, I believe webgl 2 is not "on it's way". It's been here for a while and Apple has made a point of ignoring it in their anti-web policy. The next supported api will likely be webGPU. Till then it's webgl and canvas2d, of the two, canvas is lighter and built into browsers. But WebGl makes sense for a cross-platform solution, from a product stand-point.
     
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  22. artemio_morales

    artemio_morales

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    Great to see all the progress being made with Tiny!

    Any ideas on when you might be offering integration with Timeline? I'm really excited about the possibility of making interactive, lightweight 2d films for web.

    Did some experiments earlier in the year and I think Timeline for Tiny could be really powerful!
     
    NightOwl444 likes this.
  23. Thaina

    Thaina

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    It's now the time to ignore apple and just build for android. If no game build to apple their system will just collapsed. It should be times for destroy this company that hindering everyone's future
     
    NightOwl444 likes this.
  24. leoln2000

    leoln2000

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    I'm looking forward to the access of the 3D module, which has been waiting for a long time.
     
    NightOwl444 likes this.
  25. JJJohan

    JJJohan

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    Are there any long-term plans for Project Tiny to be more accessible for non-game projects? It looks like a great use case for using Unity as a very lightweight renderer to visualise assets but the fact the majority of the typical .NET library is unavailable makes it nigh-impossible to use existing third party libraries for supporting various data formats. Currently I'm using Unity's regular WebGL build target but it's quite heavy.

    Nevertheless I'll probably play around with it for a few game projects as well as it looks quite promising.
     
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  26. Manny_bit

    Manny_bit

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    Exactly, if you like to build web games for iPhones, Canvas2D it the only nice way. WebGL is not supported ;(
     
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  27. DoctorShinobi

    DoctorShinobi

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    Not going to happen. Apple's market share is too large to be ignored. If not releasing on IOS means you could be losing millions of dollars then people will not comply to this boycott because it's a bad financial move.
    This is especially true since Apple not supporting WebGL2 isn't immoral enough for companies to justify boycotting Apple.
     
    NightOwl444 likes this.
  28. yossi_horowitz_artie

    yossi_horowitz_artie

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    WebGL 1 definitely works on iOS Safari.
     
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  29. yossi_horowitz_artie

    yossi_horowitz_artie

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    Unfortunately, I believe that the availability of the typical .NET library is one of the main things that MAKES the regular WebGL build target so heavy. I think it might be quite literally impossible for Unity to deliver what you're asking for, even though they no doubt would very much want to.
     
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  30. jGate99

    jGate99

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    @JC-Cimetiere
    Is project Tiny going to use UI Elements for UI?
    Thanks
     
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  31. ex_dev

    ex_dev

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    Jan 16, 2017
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    Is there any way to access the previous package with an older version of Unity? and the next preview would not have 2D support? Why to do this? Not really sure about the move because most of the simple content is going to be 2D anyways. Very disappointed about this.
     
    NightOwl444 likes this.
  32. m12ion

    m12ion

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    we want webGPU, or move toward to babylon
     
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  33. Belcherman

    Belcherman

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    FACEBOOK INSTANTS GAMES:
    I to would like more on how to make games that will be released on Facebook Instant. There seems to be very little about it if you google around and even less when googling tiny unity / facebook instant. I know how to use Unity so would be cool if we could have some type of sticky tutorial on a basic game setup and publish.
     
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  34. Warped

    Warped

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    Hi! I can't find Tiny Project in Package Manager! Tryed different Unity versions, different platforms, preview packages but no result!

    http://prntscr.com/ptavw1
     
    ChessMax likes this.
  35. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

    Unity Technologies

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  36. Warped

    Warped

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    Thanks. But why you fully removed Tiny? Why didn't return previous release?
    Is it possible to get previous versions?
     
  37. Juandapp

    Juandapp

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    Thank you. How's that preview going? When does it come out?
     
  38. JC-Cimetiere

    JC-Cimetiere

    Unity Technologies

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    yes it's still possible to get previous version, by manually adding the following line in the /Packages/manifest.json file in your project folder:
    "com.unity.tiny": "0.16.1-preview"

    Be sure to read this thread first:
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/whe...ckage-cant-find-it-in-package-manager.761381/
     
  39. KurtGokhan

    KurtGokhan

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    @JC-Cimetiere The build has "The Turkish I Problem". It can't find some files because it changes "i" in the file path to "ı". It worked when I switched the language to english.
     
    Nyanpas likes this.
  40. yuvaldrory

    yuvaldrory

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    @JC-Cimetiere any updates on the release date of the new Tiny Beta?
    a month has passed since Unite Copenhagen, is it coming soon? can we expect on Q4?
     
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  41. Nyanpas

    Nyanpas

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    I am also curious to test the Tiny 3D. Hopefully it can make my test puzzler a lot better for the webbernettes.
     
  42. Rallix

    Rallix

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    Can't say I'm exactly happy with the roadmap…Simple 2D HTML5 games is "the" reason I became interested in Project Tiny. However, with the clarification above, I understand the reasons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  43. HECer

    HECer

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    Cannot find Project Tiny package in Unity 2019.12.f1
     
  44. DiegoWw

    DiegoWw

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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
  45. Chetan_Ingle

    Chetan_Ingle

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    Can we use Unity's new Input System in Unity Tiny? And is there any other way to access the D-Pad in the Unity Tiny projects?
     
  46. awesome-alex

    awesome-alex

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    Hello @JC-Cimetiere,
    Is there any new roadmap, KaiOS need new games I want to use Unity but time is running.
     
  47. ZeN12

    ZeN12

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    Hi, at Unite Copenhagen (Oct 7, 2019) was announced approximate release date of new preview package (in 2-3 months). Are there any new updates on new preview release (3d support)? Or maybe there is a close beta by invite?

    Second question is related to unity license. In free version, in "traditional" project, there was force to use splash screen ("Made with unity"). In DOTS/Tiny project (preview-0.16.1) there wasn't any splash screen. Do you consider to add splash screen for DOTS/Tiny project?

    Third question is related about Unity services, does Unity services still relevant for DOTS/Tiny project? For example crash reports or Analytics?

    I would like to help testing or provide feedback for new preview. If you are interested in my "QA Testing" please contact me.

    Thanks
     
  48. vincismurf

    vincismurf

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    Will Tiny be available the day 2019.3 comes out? I am planning on spending the holidays building tiny projects.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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