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[NSFW] Hatred - A Mass Murder Simulator - Offended by the trailer? You're a hypocrite!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by I am da bawss, Oct 23, 2014.

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  1. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    <Video link deleted by hippocoder>


    Offended by the 'Hatred' trailer? You're a hypocrite (and that's a good thing)
    http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/22/hatred-game-trailer/


    The game has caused Epic to ask for their logo to be removed from the trailer (They are using Unreal Engine 4, lucky they didn't use Unity huh?) as with NYPD (I didn't know NYPD is trademarked).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2014
  2. BrandyStarbrite

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  3. RockoDyne

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    Twenty bucks says this makes national news if they ever shut up about ISIS. They are going to need something to complain about for the elections that isn't foreign policy.
     
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  4. makeshiftwings

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    I read about the game a while ago and have my own views on it, but as for this particular article... I don't think he knows what the word "hypocrite" means. It's not hypocritical to condemn murder but then kill someone in self-defense. "Murder" does not mean the same thing as "killing", and almost the entire world agrees that there is a difference, legally and morally, between murder and killing in self-defense. I also think he glosses over an obvious difference between an FPS and this game: In an FPS you are in combat, the adrenaline rush is supposed to come from fighting for your life: people are shooting at you and you are shooting back; it's competitive and difficult. In this game, you just walk up to unarmed people and kill them; there is no combat or competition; the only joy is supposed to come from getting to watch an animation of an innocent person getting killed for no reason.
     
  5. JamesLeeNZ

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    wowsers. thats taking super violent to the next level.
     
  6. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    For those who are squeamish and can't take the above trailer, here is another version:

    Mod note:
    <Video link deleted by hippocoder>
    People will have to search themselves if they're interested sorry.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2014
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  7. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    How is that taking super violent to the next level? You know there used to be a game called "Postal" right? They even made a movie out of it.
     
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  8. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Looks like some solid action but I don't see why anyone would complain about the violence in this over many other 3D games. 3D games have been bringing gorefests into our living rooms for a while now.
     
  9. JamesLeeNZ

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    never heard of it. watched some gameplay from postal 3... assume its the same as the older versions. was pretty mild in the violence stakes tbh. Manhunt was much more violent when I played that some years ago. Postal 3 barely even registers on the violence scale compared to this game/manhunt... perhaps it gets more violent later in the game.
     
  10. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    I think the majority who have problem with this is because of the narrative where the protagonist' sole intention is to kill innocent civilians - not as a mean to an end but as the sole reason for it.
     
  11. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    You have to remember the period it appeared in - the original Postal (isometric shooter) was released back in 1997 where the topic of violent video game was just starting and Columbine massacre hadn't happen. Postal 2 (the definitive version) was a FPS which was released in 2003 and the graphics was on par with the games that was released back then - at the cutting edge of game graphics. The violence level in Postal 2 was quite gory too - featuring decapitation (with sword or melee weapon), mutilation (of body parts) and burning, but that's not all, after you finish slaughtering the victims (all of them civilians) you can also pee on them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2014
  12. MrBrainMelter

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    It's been done before in a few places:

    1. Airport scene in Call of Duty 2.
    2. Postal series
    3. Super Columbine Massacre RPG
    4. GTA (kind of)

    But I've never seen it done to this level. Indeed quite disturbing ...
     
  13. NickHaldon

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    This is just wrong. This game is just undeniably wrong. The entire purpose of this game is skewed. What will this make the people who play it think? They'll think that its fine to go out and commit mass murder. Why should they not? Its not like people are telling them not to? There is nothing redeeming about this game, its all just evil.

    In the time where school shootings is becoming a huge threat, this should not be put out there. This wont help to decrease the amount of school shootings, it will just help to increase them. Kids will play this and wont be shown that it is bad, they will just naturally think its good since they were allowed to buy and play it.

    This will also be a threat to our Police Officers in the field. In the game there wont be something bad that happens if they kill a cop. This will teach them that they can kill cops and get away with it.

    On top of all this, its truly just plain mass murder. You are going out to kill as many innocent people in as many horrible ways as quick as you can. That's all there is to it.

    (At least in the airport scene you could skip it. Also, the player received a negative effect in the end. He was killed and it was clearly iterated on afterwards.)
     
  14. hippocoder

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    Hi,

    Yeah I was disturbed by the trailer & fully support epic's decision to remove the logo. It's a foul game that has no place masquerading as entertainment.

    The idea is you kill innocents in the most gruesome way possible and I don't call it a game, I call it a sicko simulator, and I see nothing good about it. Nothing at all.

    I think the developers are sick.

    I'm not offended, I'm disturbed and slightly upset having watched it, there's a big difference. It's probably the first time I'd call for a game being banned from online stores until it's cleaned up or given a point. It's just sickening.


    I decided to edit the OP and remove the sickening uncensored video. I'll allow the thread but remember, Unity is a place where people who aren't old enough for films of that graphic violence or sexual content frequent, so it's not allowed here.

    Surprising that it came to the point where I had to moderate a video of a game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  15. sphericPrawn

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    Postal 2 also let you jam a cat on the end of your gun's barrel to act as a silencer. It's definitely valid to compare the two games, but Postal seemed more like over-the-top shock-value to the point of being comical, while this one--partly due to the narrative--definitely strikes me as being significantly more dark.

    Cable news pundits and congressmen with a hair up their ass couldn't have asked for an easier target if they had commissioned it themselves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  16. Cynikal

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    Honestly, I applaud you [Dev] for stepping "out of the norm". Isn't that truly what games are all about? Or would you rather see the 500th Flappy Birds or Minecraft clone?

    Let's be honest...

    Grand Theft Auto, even from the very beginning... You could kill innocents. Except that game allows you to (in recent franchises) have sex with prostitutes. And that game is considered "good"?

    Everyone will have their own opinion on the game, and honestly, good. It will gain national coverage quickly for how "dark and heavy" it is. Which, to be honest, leads to brand recognition, and more importantly... Sales.

    Great job on the game, and the work you've done. I would actually look into buying it if it had a multiplayer aspect, and another form of gameplay other than "just kill everyone". It'd basically be like DayZ.... But...with humans.
     
  17. BeefSupreme

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    Yeah, this will be some bad press on Fox news.
     
  18. MrBrainMelter

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    Well that's the thing. At the beginning of almost every "macho" shooter game, there's some flimsy story that gives you an excuse to shoot tons of people to (yet again) save the world. Hell, by the end of those games my guns are so powerful I might as well be killing unarmed civilians. By hey, I earned those guns!

    Sometimes people will challenge this notion (Spec Ops: the Line, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail, etc)
     
  19. NickHaldon

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    Stepping out of the norm is only good if you know how far to step. This dev has overstepped by a mile. And yes I would much rather see the 1000th Flappy Bird clone (Which I hate) then this.

    Granted it will get a ton of recognition but is it the type of recognition that you want? All that the people will talk about is the mass murder aspect. Because that all there is to it.
     
  20. BeefSupreme

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    I agree. Society will only let you push them so far before they push back. And it's rather poor timing with recent events (ugh). I believe in freedom of speech, and I know it's most relevant when it applies to something you dislike, but that doesn't mean I have to like it either.
     
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  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I'm not really sorry, but I've removed vids. You're all capable of doing a search for the videos yourselves but minors frequent these forums and while blood is allowed, putting a shotgun in a crying woman's mouth begging and pressing the trigger is not. Given the realism of the visuals these days I'm treating it as I would treat someone posting a video of torture porn like Hostel on these forums.

    The censored version disrespects the viewer and also manages not to hide the graphic violence in a couple of places so I've pulled that too.

    So therefore graphic acts that go this far are crossing a line, while general games like GTA aren't.

    What is the line? well "we'll know it when we see it" - and we see it here.
     
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  22. Cynikal

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    To be fair though, this is nothing but one man's opinion, just as I have mine.

    He made a game. You do not like the style (understandably). I respect your opinion to fight this, as granted, I dislike plenty of games myself as I think they are either too dumbed up...or just plain stupid.
     
  23. NickHaldon

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    But that's a big difference though. You dislike games because they are either dumb or stupid, this game is both but it is also downright evil. Nothing redeeming can come from this. Only bad things. Either more school shootings or more cops getting killed. Its something that needs to be addressed.
     
  24. Cynikal

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    Honestly, yes. This game is deep/dark. However, once again, referencing GTA. [Assuming you've played it] I'm sure you've killed countless cops, ran over random people, stolen their cars, then ran them over, done drive bys on a Fagio(Scooter). And i'm sure you've laughed or enjoyed yourself.

    The game the dev is making, is obviously not for everyone. We can ALL agree to that. Your "school shootings/more cops getting killed" is not the direct cause of a video game. It's because someone felt the need to do it. Now, if the game said "Thanks for playing! Now go shoot up a school and kill 15 cops for Real World Immortality" that'd be completely different.

    I have played games where my character can fly. Does that mean I go and jump off a skyscraper to see if I can?
    Considering I was a Rifleman for the United States Marine Corp, I also knew that you can't generally take 20 rounds into the chest before you go down that games like COD/Battlefield/Others like to show.

    I think we can both agree, to disagree.

    Enjoy your day!
     
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  25. MrBrainMelter

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    Nothing new here. It's a bread and butter gameplay mechanic in the GTA series (GTA V sold $800 million in one day). Hell, even Hillary Clinton was more concerned with Hot Coffee over shooting cops.
     
  26. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    There is a classic counter-argument to this - that people who can't differentiate fantasy from reality will invariably commit mass murder anyway. Or they shouldn't play the game in first place. Remember! Video game don't kill people! Bullets kill people!
     
  27. SteveJ

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    What bothers me most about this sort of rubbish is when the creator thinks that they're genuinely making some sort of meaningful statement:

    "By the game? That we should not bend under political correctness propaganda which we can see everywhere right now. We live in the free world, with freedom of speech and artistic expression and we should use it in any way we want, otherwise we'll be falling under SJWs [Social Justice Warriors] regime. Some reactions for this trailer are a great example of this. Fortunately there are many people who understand us and are standing on our side."

    What a complete dick.

    And unfortunately, all the attention that it's getting (including us talking about it right now) is probably exactly what the developers want. They're just looking to get their 15 minutes of fame through any means necessary.
     
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  28. kaiyum

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    hatred : the psycho simulator
    ohh, who is developer, these guys are freaks! :eek::eek: If you want to kill, kill some murderer-rapist-terrorist, why innocents? If in any case developers have honest intention then they failed to bring it on to people. It will not go well.
     
  29. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah I agree people kill people, but there's kind of a limit. The article says you're hypocritical for killing with a point but disliking this game. I disagree. I don't think it's hypocritical if you're a well-adjusted sane human being and here's why:

    - most people here dream of saving the greater good
    but hatred dreams of slaughtering the greater good

    - most people here would probably want to protect everyday folk from evil
    but hatred makes you the evil

    I could go on, but killing with a point matters, and it's not hypocritical. In games where you kill, it's not really the violence, but the entire psychological battle: you are fighting the forces of evil, its grim, its rough, it's a simulation of a life on the front lines, protecting people at home, or in any case - you're killing nonhumans, monsters etc, ultimately it's survival.

    Hatred doesn't do the survival aspect, it instead robs the innocent of life. There's a big difference here and if people can't see that difference, then it's probably time to step back from the internet and walk out of your front door and at least try and adjust yourself to being a sociable and normal human being.

    Be really careful if you can't tell the difference or figure out why this game is wrong. You need to look after your mental well being.
     
  30. SteveJ

    SteveJ

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    There are far too many people that justify depravity with "art" and "free speech" though. Just slapping an art label on anything you produce doesn't excuse you from exercising decency. In my opinion, at least...
     
  31. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    Agree, I think if people can't tell fantasy from reality they shouldn't play the game.
    It is like this game called "Birdly":

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/birdly-a-virtual-reality-bird-simulator-with-oculus-rift.275600/

    Is it the game's fault if you play this game (which seeks for maximum realism - they even have wind and smell generator built-in plus full body feedback) and decided to jump off a building?
     
  32. MrBrainMelter

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    Hmmm. I wonder how they'll handle children in the game. In Fallout, you can't kill kids. In the Sims 4, you can't drop them into a pool anymore like you could in the Sims 3. In GTA, there are no kids on the streets.

    I wonder if those were conscious decisions by the devs, or if it was ultimately a problem with the feds. It's one thing to go into a grocery store and kill adults. It's another to go into a school and kill kids.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  33. Genjin

    Genjin

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    In the original Fallout games you could kill kids. But anyway this game looks nice, it's pretty much a inofficial Postal 1 remake. Really it's almost identical. I enjoyed the hell out of both Postal games when they came out, I'm looking forward to have fun with this game too and in a few years - like with postal - no one will see the big deal about this game anymore either. I don't really see the problem, with games like GTA or Postal we're just bullying virtual characters, something we'd never do in real life. There is something satisfying in that, like remember the old Black & White Games? Surely everyone threw around his people a lot, threw rocks on them and so on and laughed. Games like Postal or this one are that same kind of deal.
     
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  34. JovanD

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    Edgelord, the game!
    Game made by edgelords for edgelords.
    Fact that people are complaining about it is only gonna make it sweeter for people playing it.
     
  35. MrBrainMelter

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    It might start out that way, but it doesn't always end that way. For instance, when playing Civilization V, I want to make my nation survive and thrive. But if I'm in the mood, I'll dominate the world and wipe everyone else out, even though I don't really NEED to in order to win the game. I guess I'm just deranged in the head ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  36. kaiyum

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    Do something crazy>make attention>auto advertisement>more profit........... ;);)
     
  37. sphericPrawn

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    As disgusting and wrong and this game is, in my opinion, art (whatever its purpose, intention, or legitimacy) should never be blamed as being responsible for a crazy persons actions. Charles Manson used a freaking Beatles song to justify his cult's actions. I'm definitely not a psychology major, but I think a crazy person will find a reason or inspiration regardless of how specific it is or is not.
     
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  38. zombiegorilla

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    I believe his point is valid.
    Bear in mind, the developer is not saying that killing with point is the same as murder. His claim is that someone who finds games like GTA (and a crap ton of other games that are the same or worse) acceptable, and are offended by the violence in Hatred is hypocritical. I would agree.

    In GTA (and similar) you kill, torture, murder, randomly kill, and you are criminal in first place. (GTA is tame compared to others). But still, that is the point of the game. The character(s) aren't innocent people fighting for their lives, they are criminals and murders. But more importantly, YOU as a human player aren't a victim of circumstance either. You chose to play a game knowing full well you were playing a murderer and that a good chunk of the game is to kill other humans. You aren't fighting for your life in circumstances out of your control, you bought a video game, hit start and began the virtual slaughter. The only difference is the narrative created by a writer.

    Consider this... take Hatred, and craft a completely VO and backstory with the same gameplay. Once you remove the cut scenes, dialog and backstory, the actual mechanical gameplay is no different. You use a variety of weapons to kill digital humans. Whether they are attacking your character, a rival gang, opposite side in a war, someone you are paid to kill, or just in the way of your car or in line in front of you at the convenience store, if they are human shaped and don't negatively impact your score, they are fair game.

    We know the games we play are games, fictional and created by writers. So I would agree, if someone finds GTA acceptable (killing rivals, by-passers, etc in a meth'd up rage ability), but finds Hatred
    unacceptable (killing people because he is just nuts) that seems pretty hypocritical. I mean really, if someone is seriously opposed to virtual violence, don't play either. It is pretty weak to draw distinction between the fictional backstory of fictional characters. If someone buys COD, they are buying it with the intention of gunning down humans. But it's cool, the textures on them clearly indicate that they are opposed to my way of life.

    That is the hypocrisy that the developer is addressing is not about everyone or simply a dislike, or even that it goes over line for some people. It's that is hypocritical to be morally offended by one and not the other. Both games you play a sociopathic, criminal with the primary goal of killing. Yes, there is clearly a difference in volume and method. But is there a magic number that makes a difference? If you kill 20 innocent bystanders is that morally acceptable? But 21+, that is suddenly wrong? Stabbing them in the face with a knife is worse than running them over because you are running from the cops after killing a bunch of your rivals? Your actions in the game still create virtual widows and orphans.

    Clearly everyone has their own internal markers as to what is disgusting, enjoyable and too far down a path that affects what they will find fun and want to play. This game (and the tons of other games as bad or worse) will probably be too far to enjoy or feel comfortable playing for most people. But that is not the same as attributing a moral absolute and then applying it inconsistently. That is definition of hypocrisy.

    That said, yea, it is a totally disgusting game and concept. (as are all that are similar). I can't imagine working on a game like that. But like some of the other posts, I believe that freedom of expression critical. Drawing lines or creating limitations leads to very bad scenarios for everyone.

    Whether the developer is genuinely trying to make a statement, or just banking on controversy to get sales ultimately doesn't matter. It is possible that good things can come from this. It is possible that it could draw more attention to the trend of violence in games by showing the far end of the spectrum and create a backlash/disinterest in them. Or it could have no impact at all. It shines a light on the topic at any rate.
     
  39. I am da bawss

    I am da bawss

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    The argument wasn't about "art". Its about entertainment. And people find it "fun" to shoot and kill other people.

    Now, if you really get into it, the morality of killing in war (whether civilians or not - although it is almost always the civilians who were the majority of the victims in war) vs killing innocent civilian in peace time is a blurred line - when a state can designate an whole area as FREE FIRE ZONE which condemns everyone in the area (including civilians) as "enemy combatant" and can be shoot on sight - both are immoral except one is sanctioned by the state while the other is not.


    I think it is hypocritical to say this game is distasteful and deprived when the market are filled with games that are similar and share similar value.
     
  40. Dabeh

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    Games like these are made to ruffle up feathers on purpose; it's free attention and marketing. I don't find it offensive but it isn't my cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  41. Deleted User

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    I see it as a better Postal 1.
     
  42. thxfoo

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    I kind of agree with the article. I kind of played state of emergency like an amok game. And I like games where you are the bad guy. And in many games you are just a mass murderer and the plot excuse for it is very weak. Many games are just mass murder simulations.

    But this is still a new level, partly because of the realism and motivation. But it is smart from them, they get publicity worth double digit millions if they play it right. They will make a sh*t ton of money.

    Would be cool if they at least create a very dramatic end where the protagonist realizes what he did and somehow including the suffering of the victim families and injured victims. Or deconstructing the "hero" with a cut scene after each level, building the picture of a weak looser idiot who cannot deal with life even people wanted to help him and creating empathy for the victims. But sadly they probably go for maximum publicity so I don't expect any twist...
     
  43. LaneFox

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    Did not watch the trailer because it sounds like something I dont want to see, but from the sound of things it is pretty awful and my feelings in line with the quote.

    I don't think I even want to be part of the conversation about this, so many people are going to 'engineer' this and compare it to existing things in gaming and thats silly on so many levels aside from the fact that yes, a lot of [mainstream] games are overboard these days.
     
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  44. Nanako

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    This isn't a game, it's just a propaganda tool. It's getting far too much attention from the sort of media who would normally just ignore this. It is crappy, edgy, and pointless violence that serves only two purposes:

    1. To grab headlines and make sales on hype
    2. To serve in the future as a scapegoat for censorship and more weapon control laws.

    Mark my words, something is very wrong here.
     
  45. reentrant

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    Why do the protagonists in games these days always look like wannabe rock stars from some crappy indie band that posts selfies to Instagram all day?

    But seriously, people should relax. In the real world, an angry freak looking like that character wouldn't even make it past his front door.
     
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  46. spraycanmansam

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    I find it disturbing that there are people that are trying to justify or explain away senseless killing as entertainment or something of any worth.

    Whether you actually enjoy playing something like this or not - that's a whole other barrel of messed up monkeys... but it's ridiculous to try and justify there being any reason for things like this to exist.
     
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  47. andmm

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    There is nothing to justify...

    How is this any different than GTA? or that airport level from Call of Duty? or State of Emergency? Postal? I'm sorry but this has been done numerous times before so it's nothing new. Just because it "looks real" now we have an issue? Cmon.

    People are oversensitive nowadays....
     
  48. high-octane

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    Video game violence is the least of humanity's problem and really points to a symptom of an ill society, not the cause. What I find disturbing is that we in the West are complicit in our governments' senseless and unrestrained killings of unarmed civilians, women and children in foreign lands, and that we treat the news of peoples' deaths, whether warranted or not, as some type of entertainment. It's rather hypocritical to want to say "certain things" shouldn't exist yet remain silent and complicit when worse things happens in many parts of the world outside our comfortable sheltered existence, often due to the unwanted intervention of our countries' governments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  49. Rajmahal

    Rajmahal

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Posts:
    2,101
    Seems to be just murder porn in a video game format. Sickens the soul really ... worst thiing is that the media coverage will probably make this a hit. :(
     
    tango209 likes this.
  50. Kryger

    Kryger

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Posts:
    169
    Murder porn indeed but it is the psychology of people who play this which allows and even demands for it. Can't fight human nature.
     
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