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Nice out of memory crash

Discussion in 'Developer Preview Archive' started by Demostenes, Feb 18, 2012.

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  1. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    I ve just tried to open one of my scenes (3.5 final):

    http://www.dropmocks.com/mBghpf

    Nice crash dump, it seems you made some extended crash log.

    I happened after loading this scene from some other scene. When starting with clean Unity, it went OK. 16GB ram, Win7. Unity and memory leaks, it is going worse and worse...

    Edit:

    This one happened during play mode:

    http://forum.mymmo.cz/demo/scene2.jpg

    So this is that claimed "Unity quality"? This wasnt happening on 3.4. This clearly shows, that you are NOT TESTING ON MORE HEAVY SCENES.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  2. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    We are leaving asset server, because it is non-functional crap and Unity team is not able to do anything with it (not able to sync big projects, many times reported bugs without any reaction, etc...).

    So I ve tried to turn on metafiles for external version control support:

    http://forum.mymmo.cz/demo/scene3.jpg

    WTF???

    I am not able to start my project again, it is doing reimport of everything and crashing out of memory.

    Unity 3.5 should be step to able to do big games in Unity, by so far it is step back. Everything is crashing out of memory once having big project. 3.4 was 100x more stable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  3. Joachim_Ante

    Joachim_Ante

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    Please file a bug report and include the entire project folder. Best would be if you include it 3.4 form so we can reproduce the full 3.5 upgrade scenario.

    We have indeed done a lot of testing with large project folders internally and on the beta list. But of course different projects use different functionality, so that doesn't mean there are no bugs in specific cases.
     
  4. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    As I told one of your team members, our project is now 25GB and there is lots of licenced content bought outside of Unity store, so sending it is licence violation. I have to speak to our team membems about their attitude to this.

    But replication of these problems is simple. Make projects with few thousands meshes, materials, textures (I can give you exact numbers including textures type, etc...) and prepare scenes with lots of objects. Just opening/playing will very often cause out of memory crash. You can simulate that metafiles crash + asset server client crashes too. No problem at all, anybody with big project have problems with asset server. Btw, recently I noticed, that converting normal map from 1024 to 4096 causes very often out of memory crash too.

    You have for sure some debug version with extended logging, or other diagnostic tools, so no problem for us to run any tests for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  5. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    Did it ever cross your mind that using third party extensions/add ons can cause your problems? As for "licensed content", you're sending this to Unity Tech. - it's not like they are going to use it for anything else but trying to replicate your problems. Unity Tech. is not going to look into your problem unless you send them your project - it's that simple.
     
  6. cannon

    cannon

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    Actually, if he can't send the licensed content, he should get his guys to make placeholder content that can be sent to UT.

    All the AAA professional studios my company has worked with have their own in house art team even if they outsource some art, as licensing third party assets really won't give you a consistent art style, so I'm assuming he has at least a proper art team for making test assets.

    If it's simply a matter of quantity, he can just take one FBX file that he has redistribution rights for and copy it over 1000 times and see if his crashes are reproducible with that.

    Repro steps are what gets programmers fixing things. Otherwise we're half inclined to just mark unreproducible bug reports with "WORKSFORME" and go on to the next bug.
     
  7. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    So again, my world building projects contains only 2 scripts. Real coding is done in separate project. And it is crashing on standard Unity funcionality like converting normal map, enabling meta files, etc...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  8. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    This is not how it works in serious business. Usual approach is this: If you experience crash, you have to replicate it clean on version of product (without any customizations). If you are, it is instantly considered bug and now it is on supplyer to find and fix it. It is not serious to move ALL testing and bug tracking on customer. Since we use out of box Unity for our world building (with two small scripts for camera layer culling and LOD), it is without question. Other important note is, that on 3.4 these crashes never happen.
     
  9. cannon

    cannon

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    That's what I was suggesting; you replicate it on a clean version of the product, and you send the repro steps to the supplier. They will do the bug tracking and testing, however the initial repro steps are specified by the bug reporter. I had the impression that you couldn't send your repro steps due to licensing, and I was just suggesting replacing the assets with something that you can give to them.

    This is just a suggestion to help you get them to fix the bugs that affect you.
     
  10. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    I would bet, that majority of issues is caused just by lots of files (thousands of textures, materials, meshes...). Unity asset browser had always problems with memory leaks. Same with the assets server, it was never tested for huge project, so when you are doing first sync, it goes out of memory. We are not only one, who is experiencing this. I can provide exact number of jpg, dds, tga, meshes, materials etc...what we have in project.

    Sending our project will solve nothing, because this will happen again and again, until they prepare heavy project of their own, because their current testing projects are obviously insufficient now. Actually making of test data require some know-how and it is continuos work. You are still modifying them according to latest experience. I was cooperating with many companies (solving bugs) and result was always same, they had forgotten something in their test scenarios/data. So correct solution is to find why their test data are not sufficient, instead of sending projects again and again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  11. GuyTidhar

    GuyTidhar

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    No serious business can send his project without getting a signed NDA by whom ever gets it.

    This is the fact of life in IT.

    And saying: "This is just a suggestion to help you get them to fix the bugs that affect you." is mob-tactics. I don't recall unity ever going there and I doubt their democratizing gaming view would sit well with this notion. Do remember that in your sentence you are referring to "bugs". Bugs in a product you have purchased and planned a whole lot of business strategy upon. The "you" in "affect you" can easily become yourself one day, so don't be so quick to judge.

    3.5 should have the wonderful unity guys rethink how do they release a version and how do they publish a new web player.
     
  12. cannon

    cannon

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    All I said was create a repro project that you can send, if you can't send what you have due to licensing issues.

    They went through a couple hundred bugfixes in the last release; they prioritize those that they can replicate, and that means repro projects.
    They have a bug queue, all I'm giving are suggestions for you to get closer to the front of the queue, so you can get the bugs you want fixed, fixed first.
     
  13. GuyTidhar

    GuyTidhar

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    In our case, as I am sure in many others, the big deal is not the art but the code and idea so obviously I can not put a code replacement...
     
  14. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Indeed. And actually in lots of cases it is not possible. I was in role of customer and supplyer and in both cases it was not possible to send data even if supplyer signed 20 NDAs. So what supplyer had to do? Send various debugging tools and cooperate a lot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  15. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    So you reccommend us to waste days and days of work to prepare some dummny distro? Prepare 3000 dummy models and 7000 dummy textures? Once I did it to prepare some bug for Unity and it cost me one day of my work to prepare small scene with no licenced data and replicating the bug. In this case bug is caused by size of project, so it is 1000x more work. Do you have an idea, how much does it cost? If you want number, licencing another engine would be probably cheaper.

    You all guys are thinking like time has no value. Do this for unity, do that for unity, do 5000 workarounds, no problem. But you all forgetting, that in company it is not working like this, you have to pay people and so each action like this cost lots of money.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  16. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    You are trying to come up with every kind of excuse as to why you can't send in your project or even repro project. I guess you will have to continue to spam the forum with useless threads and arguments.

    If you don't want help or follow procedures that will ultimately help you, I suggest you quit complaining.
     
  17. cannon

    cannon

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    Isolating causes of errors is a daily fact of development too.
    It's use cases that kill Unity, not game ideas.

    Even with code, it's not the game itself that will kill Unity but just a specific use case, and repro projects with use cases can be made without the game idea being present.
     
  18. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Have you ever done serious business in your life? It doesnt seem so. You are pushing me to violate licence! This is serious behaviour? Unity team should really consider, who will speak in their name, because I really doubt, that this kind of unseriousness is picture, they want to build.

    Correct behaviour is to offer me signing of NDA and let us decide, if we want/can sign it. If you want to be really usefull at least for once, prepare this process inside of company.

    2Unity team: Do you really think, that his guy is good voice of your company?

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  19. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    You have to be kidding me? You didn't just say that did you? The address is publicly available so I suggest you look for it yourself. Do you want me to take you by the hand?
     
  20. cannon

    cannon

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    I know how much these things cost; we charge clients by the man-hour and pay suppliers the same.
    With business, there are always tradeoffs.

    Is it cheaper to live with the bug than try and fix it?
    Is it cheaper to create a workaround?
    Is it cheaper to start over now and switch engines?

    Btw, unless there's something specific about the models, making 3000 dummy models takes one dummy model and 12 copy pastes. 7000 textures, around 14 copy-pastes. Even if the models and textures need to be unique, a competent programmer can make you export scripts for Maya and Photoshop to automatically create them for you in less than a day.
     
  21. Demostenes

    Demostenes

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    Exactly this is work which should be done by Unity, not us. I am paying customer, not tester. I will provide all information I can, I am even willing to run some debug tools, etc, but I will not do their work.
     
  22. cannon

    cannon

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    It's entirely possible that they already have, and that the way they do it works for them.

    It's possible that they automatically, but unintentionally organize their projects differently from yours so that their test cases with lots of assets work.

    It's also possible that Unity was never intended to handle assets organized the way you do it, but instead the same functionality can be handled with a different method for asset organization.

    The point is, yours is a real use case that crashes. Either they have a method of organizing projects differently that would work, or your hitting a bug that they need to see to fix.

    I remember another bug in the preview thread; a user complained that his project was slower in 3.5, he sent his repro case, and Unity mentioned that a bug fix rendered some his code redundant. It's possible they'll have a better suggestion for how you can organize your assets, have a workaround, or you've hit a bug they can fix.
     
  23. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    So let me get this straight. You are not willing to send in your 25GB project (for whatever reasons - which sounds fishy to me right there). You can't make a repro case either which shouldn't really be too hard by simple duplicating meshes, textures etc as you said yourself. You also can't look up Unity Tech. address yourself and you can't contact them yourself via email to take it to the next step?

    You sound like you can't really do a whole lot of anything by yourself at this point. If you are a paying customer (which I personally start to question at this point) then why don't you contact sales/customer service or can't you write the email yourself either... you probably expect for UT to write you first right?

    This whole thread and topic is ridiculous. Closed.
     
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