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Next Mmorpg: experimental project

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by adre, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. adre

    adre

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    Hello guys,
    i'm Adre from LevenLab, a small creative agency in Rome.

    I decided to start my biggest adventure: i started working on a concept i have since 6 years.
    Being an hardcore gamer, i quitted playing online for the lack of decent mmorpgs to play, as i am totally unsatisfied with what the market offers, so i decided to write a "diary" with what i would actually wish a mmo has to be perfect, for me at least.

    Now i am starting the developement of that mmorpg, having now more than 7 years of experience in developing, and i will be using Unity because i am working a lot with it for other projects, and because it perfectly fits what i want to achieve.
    That MMORPG is named NEXT, and the next thing of the title is Age. Can't tell you more :)

    I am starting a devblog, and i invite you gamers to read it and partecipate because i really think the project behind Next is really innovative and totally experimental. Something we could not do 5 years ago.

    The blog is: http://nextmmorpg.wordpress.com

    T
    hanks for reading, and happy developing :)
    Adre


    UPDATE 1 - 23/8/2014
    First update to the blog, about camera and movement system.
    Hope you enjoy <3

    http://nextmmorpg.wordpress.com/2014/08/23/update-1-2/
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
    rakkarage likes this.
  2. CaoMengde777

    CaoMengde777

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    have you started writing the networking?? looks like you have a real nice scene there, time to start writing the networking LOL
     
  3. adre

    adre

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    No, because we're working on mechanics first.
    The scene is just made by placeholders and means nothing.

    With mechanics i mean not "walking" or "shooting". I mean much complex mechanics such terraforming, creating and destroying structures such buildings in realtime, etc. By that i am not saying i am unaware of the networking part. I already worked with photon server, but to do what we want to do we need a bigger team: is not a matter of syncing 100 players and make a chat server work.

    1th mechanics
    2th server
    ...
    10th visual
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  4. adre

    adre

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    A little update to the blog :)
    In these hot summer days i added new control and camera system designed for the purpose and few other things such time cycles, camera system for props between it and player, spells database...
    i'll show in the next days ;)


    http://nextmmorpg.wordpress.com/2014/08/23/update-1-2/
     
  5. thxfoo

    thxfoo

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    It is kind of problematic to start coding the mechanics on the client, because in the final game most of it will probably run on the server (otherwise cheaters will destroy your game in no time).
    And for a MMO the server will not run Unity.
     
  6. adre

    adre

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    Hello thxfoo,
    Yep, you're right about it. Is problematic in a side, easier for the other. Coding such massive amount of mechanics server side requires also a massive investment in time and money, that's why the playable alpha will be a demonstration of the mechanics, coded in unity and synced via server.
    Cheaters in a semi-closed alpha demo for funding i guess will be rare, but even if there will be, will be also clear that is a mostly clientside demo, while the final product will be cloud based.

    It will be a playable alpha to show for funding, because without funding would be impossible to achieve a goal for such project.
     
    princeWIGUAN likes this.
  7. princeWIGUAN

    princeWIGUAN

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    You got your point Adre.
    Game mechanics first.
    What kind of funding are you looking forward to?
    Kickstarter campaign?
     
  8. adre

    adre

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    Hello princeWIGUAN,
    cheers :)

    I am valuating between Indiegogo and Kickstarter. If the project will be on his feet and will be ready for a decent funding, the choice will be Kickstarter.

    Indiegogo at the moment requires an intensive daily press release to get visibility, and the chance to get funded is a bit smaller than KS, but they offer the flexible funding which can help anyway to get on run.

    A publisher / venture capital funding could be a next step, to enlarge much more the project and get more solid bases, but we're talking about something that could happen in 1 year or more if everything runs smoothly, a thing that hardly happen.

    I hope to gather at least a bit of fanbase and to enlarge the team for mid September, to start the hardcore dev stage, but of course is hard to draw attention in these days without any help from communities.
     
  9. calmcarrots

    calmcarrots

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    Thats real nice but...
    1. Wrong forum
    2. Wrong forum
    3. Wrong forum
    4. Probably the wrong forum
     
  10. adre

    adre

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    Moved in WIP section.
     
  11. fastlife1995

    fastlife1995

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    Best of luck! From what I can see from this thread, the probability of you actually finishing the game is extremely small, but don't give up. I would advice you to make one or more other small networked projects so you get the hang of networking. No need to rush into it. My op is that mechanics made client-side will have to be redone sooner or later, might as well do them right the first time.
     
  12. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    What games has your team published previously?

    Backers won't touch you with a 10-foot pole if your team doesn't show off quality titles that have been released previously.
     
  13. Izitmee

    Izitmee

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    Not true: a seriously good project and a well done Kickstarter/Indiegogo page can bring successful funding even for devs that have no previous experience, and I saw it happening many times. That said, surely a portfolio is a helpful bonus.
     
  14. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    For a game of this scope I disagree. For smaller games perhaps, but for a full blown MMO, I'd like to know which projects have been backed where the dev team had no previous experience and the project was funded sufficiently to complete it from scratch.
     
    AndrewGrayGames likes this.
  15. princeWIGUAN

    princeWIGUAN

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    Valid argument there.
    I've done some research around the boundary of Kickstarter and IndieGoGo.
    Most the games successfully funded there is not an MMO.
     
  16. Izitmee

    Izitmee

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    Scope is indeed a good point. Also considering that both Kickstarter and Indiegogo have become increasingly harder places to gain funds (thanks to sneaky/incompetent devs popping the dream bubble).
     
  17. adre

    adre

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    I released games for public administration ( edutainment, bot desktop and mobile) and for some companies in my country, but of course no AAA games and were all orders from costumers, as there are no chances here since country funding for the gaming industry is par to nothing ( and i am not a billionare, unluckly ).
    Despite that, i guess you are right, and the reason is not because of the massive size of the projects presented, but due the poor innovation of the latest mmos in the market: latest products are offering pretty much the same mechanics offered by EverQuest, a product of 10+ years ago. Add to this that "wow clone" became in the last 7 years a common joke, pointing that any mmorpg shipped since wow, is pretty much like wow.
    And this is in part true ( ok, i am a warr/priest/mage, i have to cap my levels and get new gear, then i will kill big enemies waiting for an expansion to start it over. Add [Random Lore 90% fantasy])
    Would you be interested in backing a portable CD reader with a cool design and bluetooth connection? I guess no. That's the case of the poor backing success: old product with fancy eye-candy, and this fancy eye-candy is where the industries are investing more, instead of researching.

    Cutting out of the list all the Wow clones that are around, the list of the innovating products is really poor: we can count Darkfall which has a really poor development but had a huge attention for the innovative approach to the genere, maybe the last released ArcheAge which also has some innovative themepark/sandbox style, but is a korean farming clone in the end. Other products are or poorly coded so barely unplayable and mainly based on Pay2Win mechanics ( freemiums, east products ) or are a 95% clone with a mixture of what the market already offer ( GW2, ESO, etc ).

    The reason why i think a product made by an "unknow" team could success, is because backing is based on two things:
    - Faith in the team: that is easy to get when you show your dev progress in the past 6 months, instead of spawning up from nowhere asking for 600k and showing a beautiful CG video on a detailed presentation of what you COULD achieve.
    - Desire to have the product: i believe what i want to achieve is what the market requires, what mmorpg players want to play. That comes from an extended experience of 14years from the player point of view.

    This said, backing success is 1% without an attention drawn on the project.
     
  18. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    "Blah, blah, blah ... NEXTGEN MMO ... Blah, blah, blah" ... Two years from now, my son will tell you the same thing he tells me, 'Kid wasn't ready. Kid got wrecked. Kid should've prepared.'

    Actions speak louder than words, whether spoken or typed. Go ahead, prove me wrong!

    Gigi
     
  19. fastlife1995

    fastlife1995

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    I completely disagree with that statement. I think investors might look away because of the sheer size of the project, rather than focus on the new mechanics. Investors don't give a damn about features, and neither should they. Their only concern is whether a project will bring money back to the table, and innovation and new "MMO-revolutionizing never-seen-before kickass uber-cool" features will surely go straight over their heads.
     
  20. Devil_Inside

    Devil_Inside

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    Don't want to sound negative, but everyone who starts making a "nextgen mmorpg" thinks they're making the next big innovative nextgen game with cool never-before-seen features...
    Also, the fact that you're going to develop the game without proper networking in mind, just for the kickstarter campaign, tells me you're never gonna have it finished. You'll get the kickstarter money and that's when the development will cease.
     
  21. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Or they might see "next-generation mechanics" and immediately think "untried, untested, very risky".
     
  22. Izitmee

    Izitmee

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    Your son tells you "Kid wasn't ready. Kid got wrecked. Kid should've prepared"? In what context? *_*

    Decades of politicians being elected thanks to their empty words prove you wrong :D Sorry I know that phrase is in good faith, but I couldn't resist being silly.
     
    adre likes this.
  23. adre

    adre

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    @Gigiwoo , what more than opening a dev blog (which is already open) with the developing updates should i do to "prove you wrong" ?
    Did maybe i say "oh i have a next gen mmo in mind tomorrow i will open a kickstarter so i can make money and i will do the best mmorpg with your son in your bedroom while eating biscuits" ?

    I said i will do my best to keep updated the blog with the dev process, which may require 6-7 months at least to have a reasonable product. In case i will succeed having it ready, i will try to fund it.

    Is this so strange? Did i ever said i don't know where to start, or asked where to find tutorials to make pacman clone so i can do a mmorpg all alone in my free time, with my right hand occupied playing pokemons?

    No, again, i announced i will keep updated my blog, with a developing process of my project, updated both in the marketing strategy, than in the dev side. If you are interested, i would be pleased. If you're not, is not a problem at all, mate.

    Also, about Next Generation @Ryiah, @Devil_Inside and @Gigiwoo , i never said NEXTGEN, the name is NEXT because stands for Next Age (lore), and this is evidence that you just read the title or you were a bit distracted :)
    If i ever used the definition "NEXT GEN" please tell where because is a terrible error, since is more like PAST GEN, as what i want to do is recreate the freedom of choice had with Ultima Online, just with new technologies and possibilities given by better calculation power.

    @fastlife1995 is not about features infact, is about the genere of the product that i am talking about. Market is fed up of products playing the same over and over, communities wants more freedom than a single player game with online connection to see people around without achievable variants of gameplay.
    MMORPG market now works like this: selling a box with 1 month of subscription free, they spend billions in marketing to promote this without even showing gameplay but just hyping the product, people buy, people is unsatisfied because is the same product they bought last month with another name, and in 6 months that mmorpg turns f2p with ingame store as business model. That's what is working right now business side, but that is what is not working player side because contents are crapshit clones.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  24. sandboxgod

    sandboxgod

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    Took a look at the site but didn't see any screenshots or anything. I'm taking a break from backing game projects myself in any case. I am probably only going to back comic books for next few yrs because they do a great job of at least delivering me my products.
     
  25. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You may not have called it that, but your statement in the opening post was that you "really think the project behind Next is really innovative and totally experimental. Something we could not do 5 years ago".

    That to me reads as "next generation".
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  26. adre

    adre

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    @sandboxgod there are 2 screenshots and a video of 4 mins... ( if you browse here http://nextmmorpg.wordpress.com i am pretty sure you wont fail opening the first article "Video Update of the Week #1" ) :9 and i am here not asking for backing, but to promote the dev blog which has just opened 1 week ago, and find eventually fans and devs to cooperate with.

    @Ryiah is innovative and experimental, the project, as i am creating a platform for cooperation with the team, since as stated on the site, everyone with proven decent skills can cooperate in the project and being active part of it just like me. Probably is innovative also the game, but just because someone forgot about old games eventually.

    Thanks for answers, btw :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  27. fastlife1995

    fastlife1995

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    Aye, I agree. But how are you going to get an investment if you have clashing business models and player content systems with no portfolio or prior success attributed to your name? I agree that players are looking for something fresh, as I am too, but being without money and no way to get it is not the way to give the players what they need. What I'd recommend is focus on smaller networking projects and try to monetize them. Who knows? Maybe in a couple of years you'll have the personal finances you need to make your experimental MMO.
     
  28. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    Where do you want to be 10 months from now? Trying to improve your craft is admirable. However, to prove me wrong, you need to FINISH something. And unfortunately, you've chosen the single hardest topic, in all of games - something which is almost certainly beyond your ability. And, my admonishment is that you remember that deliberate practice involves topics which are ALMOST beyond your ability. As hard as the sunk-cost fallacy is to bear, I recommend abandoning your MMO and go finish a trivial product in 12 weeks. Instead of a 100% likelihood of failure, you have a 100% guarantee to learn a lot. And you'll have a real product, plus a cool story, that is worth sharing!

    I offer this advice, as someone who used to be where you are. When my wife called my bluff, I scrapped 10s of thousands of lines of code, server scripts, and prototypes, and fell-back to simpler efforts. Now, I have 6 products on the market, and a 7th as soon as Apple approves it. That's 200,000+ customers, 1400 5-star reviews, and real income. Cool story bro :).

    Gigi
     
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  29. Gigiwoo

    Gigiwoo

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    Son, wife, and occasionally my daughter. We try to follow the growth mindset, so failure is just a step on the path to success. Unless we're playing Hearthstone, and then failure ... is just failure ;).

    Gigi
     
  30. Izitmee

    Izitmee

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    Nono you're being too negative! Failure in Hearthstone still gives you XP and sometimes even manages to fulfill some quest objectives! Don't ruin my Hearthstone failure dream! ;)

    I don't get what the growth mindset has to do with the Kid that got wrecked. Who is this kid? What did he do? It looks like he challenged your son to a wrestling contest and your son piledrived him into oblivion, then came to you and said "Kid wasn't ready. Kid got wrecked. Kid should've prepared". Tell us more :D
     
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  31. thxfoo

    thxfoo

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    I would not fund it, because screens and videos do show you can create a single player game, or one with 64 players. But creating a MMO is very different. So the videos do not prove that you could create the server infrastructure and code needed. And that is the hard part about a MMO.
    But you are lucky that most backers probably do not have coder background and so maybe miss that knowledge.
    So good luck
     
    jp122 likes this.
  32. adre

    adre

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    I'm not gonna bake it if i wont have a server team in 2015. And i guess is perfectly clear to everyone on this forum that is not in any human capabilities to create a server infrastructure for an mmo all alone while also working on the client side.

    But anyway, ok, thanks for feedback
     
  33. npsf3000

    npsf3000

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    Not everyone, I think it's perfectly viable to create MMO server infrastructure in say days and weeks, rather than months or years.

    Of course, it does depend on what features you need, and what technology you use. Keep it simple and scalable, and don't tackle the hard problems unnecessarily (e.g. collision resolution is still hard, though I'm working on it).
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  34. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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  35. adre

    adre

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    As said, depends on features and the level of accuracy and security required. Setting sockets and syncs for hits and positions is not hard, depends what server has to deal with.

    Btw nice link title, gonna read as soon i'll be at home <33
     
  36. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Indeed the gameplay is fairly simple. I dug up an interview with the developer on TenTonHammer dated 2010. At the time the game had three servers with each server having a capacity of 3,000 players though peak was typically around 1,500 to 2,000. It was also getting a million unique players per month.

    http://www.tentonhammer.com/sherwood-dungeon/interview
     
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