New Xenko Game Engine - Uses C# and Free Open Source

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now you know it. This topic is very useful for you.
copy any Unity game from your ios/android device to your PC.
use 7Zip (for example) to unpack it (right click on ipa/apk, then "extract")
then browse to \assets\bin\Data\Managed\
you'll see the set of .NET Assemblies
of course, ios/android couldn't run it directly, mono is tool for that
do you now understand how it works?

read this link http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/ne...s-c-and-free-open-source.270350/#post-1786684 feel free to re-read it again iif any difficulties

 

Those assemblies are still irrelevant because I am still talking about syntax, not APIs. And your "people think C# and .NET are the same, and that makes it true" argument does not get any better by repeating it over and over again.

 

Ok. Now I know it's definitely not a language barrier.

 

Sponsored by Xamarin, Mono is an open source implementation of Microsoft's .NET Framework based on the ECMA standards for C#and the Common Language Runtime. A growing family of solutions and an active and enthusiastic contributing community is helping position Mono to become the leading choice for development of cross platform applications.

http://www.mono-project.com/


.Net is a broad term. In the most general terminology to be considered .Net a language needs to support the Net Framework Class library. In a more specific definition it should also use the CLR to run the code.

So Unity Mono is .Net... just not the version we'd like to be using.

 

But that's mincing words, isn't it? I think I've made it clear that I was referring to the Microsoft .NET runtime with ".NET", and I exclusively used the long version at the start of the discussion, until I got sick of all the typing.

 

Okay guys, please. Chill out a bit or else the thread will get locked.

 

Wait until lawyers have taken a look at the license... there will probably be some posts about this on Gamasutra in the future if the engine is of any interest.

 

Apache and Node.JS are two examples from those given where the open source products are leaders. Most people have a better user experience with Chrome or Firefox than they do with IE.

 

This looks very raw and unfinished at this stage, but I have bookmarked it to look at in the future.

If you are after a FOSS Unity-like engine, Godot is a much better candidate to consider. Not too long until it has a v1 release, and is a great choice for 2d and 3d...especially if you like Python:

http://www.godotengine.org/wp/

Polycode is also shaping up nicely, albeit very slowly. Alas, still no official binaries released:

http://polycode.org/

 

Eventually Unity is going to have to adjust prices with all these new alternative engines coming on the market. For starters they could make iOS and Android free and Consoles extra-paid licences, because the way it is now just doesn't make any sense.

 

Hmm what? iOS and Android already have free versions. Consoles are already free cause Sony and MS pay the pro versions.

 

I mean bundling the $1500 mobile and team package as part of the $1500 Pro licence, since most Unity developers are porting to mobile, and collaboration is a given. Also I don't see why it should be extra for team since most developers are using external source control solutions anyway.

Unity really costs $3000, they should really cut the BS with democratizing game development if they are going to keep nicking and dimming their community.

That is without even mentioning all the asset store "Must Have" packages which can easily amount to another $2000.

There ought to be a disclaimer to new comers on the short-term and long-term costs of developing with Unity.

We are talking about $5000 per seat here, how is that democratizing game development? Who can honestly afford that?

 

When Unity started with the $1500/platform price point the closest comparable engine (which was an at-the-time old version of Unreal) was $250k per project. Now, as Ostwind rightly points out, you can get Unity on a bunch of platforms for free. How is that not democratising game development?

 

I don't know about the business models surrounding Apache and Node.JS, but Chrome and Firefox actually support my point. By embedding Google search into their search boxes, they are profitable. Ads would be a "catch" worth knowing about.

 

Wow, that video is just awful. Almost laughably so. If you are going make a video like that, which is primarily to show of visuals, you should have decent visuals. It looks like a parody.

The engine may be great, the visual abilities of the engine may be solid, but that video is purely an art fail.

 

I've seen much worse than that hanging about all over the place, sure it doesn't cause GRFX arousal like the UE4 tech demos but meh. It's alllreeet!

I'm intrigued, is this any better than the OpenTK game engine templates hanging about? You can make a Java implementation in a couple of months with GL and Java and it runs crazy fast!.

A lot of game engines about, but nowadays with all the renderer / implementation for .SDK templates hanging about, it's not exactly hard to do yourself. If that's what pickles your boat anyway.

 

Exactly.

What does the Paradox license even grant? The description on the license page itself is more explicit.

DT3 is starred and forked! Thx Ryiah

Not spamming but we like Godot, if we decide to leave Unity, if.

Now back to developing!

 

Building to IOS, Android and Consoles (If you are accepted into the console-providers programs) is possible for Free.

 

Thanks for sharing this. I researched a lot before deciding to try Unity and never found this. In fact, I found many sites listing game engines but this was absent. Anywho, I checked it out thinking this may be worth using and then I saw a GUI scene editor and such just like Unity and Gamemaker. I really don't care for the scene / GUI approach. Straight code would be much more to my liking. So, sticking with Unity still. Kind of getting used to it anyway.

 

Yeah, we're sticking with Unity for now...
...unless they are acquired by a less than desirable suitor and the tool or business model changes to something we don't like. We'll see.

Actually like the workflow, did take some getting used to coming from Irrlicht and Ogre.

Cheers

 

It wasn't released to the public until February 2014 when it was put under an MIT license. If your search date matches your join date, it was still entirely in-house at the time.

 

I think they made that video with Daz3D Pro 4.6 LOL! They should have showed more of the actual tools in the video.

 

I don't know if ya'll realise or if it's already been stated but this is actually being made by a AAA company known for making some of the best post processing in the industry... (Notably used in the final fantasy next gen demo)

 

Wow, I see a lot of jealousy in this thread! lol

For those that didn't actually give the Paradox documentation a good reading before shooting it down you may wanna go back and check it out...

I'm not sure exactly what features are being suggested that Unity has that Paradox doesn't but I'd like to point out some extremely enticing features that, well, show the kind of muscle Paradox is about to flex.

The entire engine is designed to be capable of being extended in any which way a developer would choose. Some have been quick to point out dynamic shadows but that's not even the tip of the iceberg. The entire shader API is designed to be abstracted away from a specific implementation. It supports not only pre-compiled shaders, but dynamic composition supporting friendly multiple inheritance using their own shader language called Pdxsl. The engine then compiles the shader to the target graphics platforms supported shaders (HLSL, GLSL and GLSL ES).

The engine is not tied to DirectX as OpenGL and OpenGL ES are included as well. The Xamarin license catch is a bit of a pain at the moment if targeting Android or iOS but hey, who knows what the future holds in that regards considering the other planned platform supports on the road map.

As for performance, you've got nothing to worry about. I've spent countless hours combing over the SharpDX source and it's performance is top-notch, including it's 3d math types/routines. The reason I mention this is because the creator of SharpDX is an important member of Paradox's team (among many, not to cut anyone short) and I do remember reading in his blog that they have their own optimized clean build of a DirectX wrapper in-house. Should also mention that SharpDX plans to support SIMD as soon as it is stable in the new RyuJIT and you can bet on it that Paradox will be doing the same.

On that note, the Paradox physics implementation of bullet is also making use of native SIMD already! With 3D physics being one of the larger performance bomb shells in any engine, this is a huge step.

The UI implementation is fully extensible and already comes loaded with a bunch of nice and extensible UI control types that resemble WPF controls in design pattern (which is a nice, well-rounded feature).

There's no limitations on what you can plug-in or how you choose to plug-in. You can wrap anything you want and implement it, native or not.

The serialization implementation offered in it is very fast, but the option is there for using your own serialization implementation if you choose.

I haven't benchmarked the two to compare but scripting in Paradox should be quite a bit faster being that it doesn't try to implement a "coroutine" type directly, but rather makes use of async Task calls, giving the same type of yield instruction possibilities as Unity but without the wrapper object overhead. It's a bit different from what you're used to in Unity but it gives a much simpler approach. That combined with use of the DLR should make for some very interesting possibilities.

There's a nice little micro-threading api included that I have yet to play with in depth.

Oh and another nice thing I noticed while inspecting a project in the object browser: no mono build dependencies. Since I target windows mostly, i love that I won't be compiling with a lesser optimized mono compiler.

I've never seen the internals of Unity so I can't say for sure that they aren't doing the following as well, but in Paradox, rather than simply having "managers" there are optimized "sub-managers" called processors that make the management of objects more fine-grained and speedy similar to the way I've seen in large scale MMO architecture talks. I should mention also that these processor types are not static and sealed like in some engines *cough* meaning if you are working on a serious project, you have the option of distributing these processors across threads, or even across machines for the largest of scale projects! Very very nice.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out some of the very attractive features Paradox has that are only matched by a few engines out there (Unity not being one of them) so that some of the haters may give it a fair shake and the respect it deserves. The super sexy shader and effects system really catches my eye but above all else, the fact that Paradox offers the potential for even the largest of AAA projects has made me add it to my dev toolbox. All this and it's still only in beta! You might wanna do the same while the options there as it may not be free beyond version 1x...

 

Just incase anyone is wondering a bit about the developers themselves (Silicon Studio) here's some fun stuff to check out on their site.
http://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/en/
They're kind of a big deal lol You should see their other products. If their Orochi 3 engine is any indication of the direction Paradox will head, c# game dev is in for a real treat!
Their japanese version of the site lists many more of their products as well (including the mouth-watering Orochi 3 engine and the editor that definitely rivals UDK at its best).
http://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/
To be honest, I didn't even fully realize just how evolved Silicon Studio was. If the release pro version of Paradox comes even close to as fully featured as their other engines, I'm in.

 

I've seen it before, if they implement Yebis and Mizuchi into Paradox then they win the OMG GRFX award.

 

lol I know right? Even remotely close and I'll be happy

 

I don't have to read the documentation to know the biggest limitation for Paradox is platform support. I like Unity for its mobile platform support. While Paradox might be free to use, you still have to factor in the cost of a Xaramin license if want to target non-Windows mobile platforms.

Xaramin's license is $25/mo for up to five employees. It becomes $83/mo if you have more.

 

If you read up on Paradox and the interviews with the team leads you'll find that the whole concept of the engine revolves around mobile development and is their primary focus. Desktop support is their secondary motive. It's only free to use for 1.x because it's to introduce the engine to the world market. The engine itself's feature set is equivalent to the DirectX feature set brought to mobile. Keep in mind it is still under development and major features are being held back for v2.x+ and licensing will feature a range of commercial and opensource options. I'd bet something will be worked out with Xamarin by that point, considering the attention their going to get from the engine.

Check this article out, it's the devs talking about the engine's goals and target market:
http://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/en/news/media/pdf/2014/develop_sep2014.pdf

And in the end, if it costs a bit for xamarin support, guess it's still a better deal than a Unity Pro license.

 

Are you a Paradox Evangelist? I only ask because it appears you just joined the forums here (Unity3D forums) to talk about Paradox.

Or are you a Unity3D user who just happened to join the forums to talk about Paradox because you are checking out other options?

 

The latter lol: Checking out other options. Unity is powerful in it's own right but it's too constrictive and lacks the kind of extensability it could/should have and I'm not just referring to the free version. Maybe it's a modernization/legacy comparison but after playing with paradox, while there's some things that need to be rounded out and obviously some features that users are gonna have to wait a little bit for, the ground work seems far superior to Unity so far. It's apples to oranges in some ways but with all the negative feedback from people that didn't even actually look into it, it's only fair to have a review from someone that did.

 

Only if you need Unity Pro.

 

Am I missing something or does this game engine lack a scene editor? I cant find it and they seem to do everything through script in their samples.

 

This morning they have announced a roadmap, part of which includes a scene editor.

 

That would be a great thing in my opinion. These GUI things Scene Editors and such you get used to them eventually but in the beginning, for me at least, I was like what in heck is all of this junk? I want to program a game not drag objects around like working in Blender.

 

I suppose it depends on what kind of game you're making. For most projects, being able to place items in a scene using an editor is probably faster than doing it through script. If it's a procedural level then it's another matter.

 

I didn't look at it. Competition is great, though. I think it will be a couple years before anybody can seriously compete with what unity does for indies. I thought this was a joke thread, at first. Unity has the right place, right time advantage and it's the first to offer so much (community and education is part of what you get) for so little. It will make unity better the more ideas others have, since unity can incorporate things rather quickly and the community seems to adopt new things quickly.

 

Do you mean "anyone new"? Because engines like UE4 already compete. (I think they fall short in ways that are important to me, but to say they don't compete is just flat wrong)

 

Viral GPLv3 licensing

"...if you use Paradox built from sources (either unmodified or modified), you must publish source of your game, as well as any changes to Paradox that you might have done (as per GPLv3 license)."

Provisional binary licensing

Paradox binary release (as distributed on our website, with unmodified signed assemblies) is under the "Paradox 1.x version" License Agreement.

It allows you to create games and distribute them freely and royalty-free, as long as you use the signed binary runtime.

https://github.com/SiliconStudio/paradox/blob/master/LICENSE.md

 

Maybe not quite a few years, it's starting to look very promising TBH plus it's an open source C# engine you can customise until the cows come home. Personally I really like it..:

But err, looks like a crossbreed of Unity and UE4.

http://paradox3d.net/blog/gdc-2015-scene-editor-new-rendering

 

The Democratization of Game Engine Editors.

 

Seems rather to be the "freedom (release)" of Game Enignes Editors.

 

@ZJP

OMG, the GFX are awesome in that photo. What engine did you use? I'm guessing CryEngine because it's outdoors n' stuff.

 

Canon Render Engine V9.45b

 

Quite a Paradox, isn't it? Though I don't mind as long as it combines best aspects of both and not the worst ones.

 

You have to be kidding me... That thing doesn't even have a scene editor! I hope they'll fix it in future.

 

Some concepts from Visual Studio too.

 

For the moment, this is all a big too-do about nothing. Since the engine hasn't actually been released yet, all speculation is moot until users actually get their hands on it. And as it has been pointed out numerous times, rendering power != game quality. How you use your tools is far more important than the potential power of those tools.

That said, I certainly have no objection to another engine option being open-sourced. Good for the fine folks at Paradox for sharing their creation with the world at large. Also, I am inclined to be friendly toward any project that Silicon studios is involved with. Their rendering tech was behind the excellent 3D Dot Game Heroes. And I like me some 3D Dot Game Heroes. Having an updated version of that rendering tech added to an open-source project sounds like a good time to me.

Still going to keep using Unity, though.

 

http://paradox3d.net/download

 

Ah! They're even further along than I thought! Already providing public access to the alpha.

Still going to stick with Unity. But I wouldn't be averse to taking their editor for a spin, and see if there is potential for a little tool development/porting.