New Xenko Game Engine - Uses C# and Free Open Source

http://www.develop-online.net/tools-and-tech/inside-silicon-s-new-paradox-game-engine/0197949

http://paradox3d.net/

It seems that its still in alpha but so far looks like its going to disrupt Unity's market quite a bit.


edited by moderator:

 

I am laughing.
may be in few years it could compete with Unity
now it's nothing.
there are no unique features (ah, the only unique feature - you need Xamarin license to deploy your app for Android/iOS )
Unity has thousands video/text tutorials, thousands answers on every question you may imagine, thousands assests, hude community, it works on every mobile device on the market etc etc
paradox has "the killer feature:": the requirement to buy Xamarin license
thanks for good joke! post something, we'll laugh again

P.S. low FPS even on youtube's demo

 

For some people, it being FLOSS will be a huge advantage.

Also, I have this feeling Paradox Interactive might sue.

 

The animations in that video were just bad.

 

Why does everyone hate on a new engine?

 

Are you guys really bashing this game engine? I doubt that any of you could even get one particle on the screen. The people (or person) who made this did great. Since it's open source, it should be a great learning tool for new comers. Seriously, I think this looks awesome and I will definitely look into it.

 

Not everyone does.

 

I'm curious what their business model is. Their site claims that there are neither license fees nor royalties. Presumably they're making money somewhere on this, right?

(Yeah, I'm the guy who looks a gift horse in the mouth. No one just gives away a worthwhile horse.)

 

So... why is OpenOffice free, then? LaTeX? Ubuntu? Apache? MariaDB? Node.js? The Linux kernel? The BSD family?

 

I said a *worthwhile* horse.

I kid, but seriously, the user experience on those is dramatically inferior to their commercial counterparts.

 

Do you even code?
Using .NET is a huge advantage. Just a quick glance at the docs makes me .

 

May be true for OpenOffice and maybe even for most Linux distros in a standard user environment - but I guess most big web companies would really dispute your opinion about Linux compared to Windows, or Apache compared to IIS, or MariaDB / MySQL when compared to whatever Microsoft has in the database department.

Using .NET looks like an advantage at first glance, but it does limit the number of platforms you can deploy to massively. No Mac OS X for you, I guess.

 

Thanks for finding this! Now I gotta put testing out Unity's new gui on hold.

 

Yeah, I'm giving it a whirl right now as well.

So far, I like how the entire project is a Visual Studio solution. On the other hand, the UI and structure is way less intuitive than that of Unity.

 

Ah, found it in the interview:

So future features are what's going to cost you.

 

Awesome. I thought the video was quite impressive as well. Actually, I have never seen anything like this created in Unity? I am sure it could be done just saying I have never seen it.

 

Was gonna post that in reply to you. But it seems you have great detective skills too.

 

That isn't much of a demo for an engine. Looks more as if it was a render and they called it a demo.

I don't have much to say because well, video doesn't show much

 

Don't! Investigating the new UI, even with it's flaws, is time well spent.
Gigi

 

Ah, okay. If this is going to become commercial down the line, count me out.

Also, having to write code just to display a bunch of objects is not really what I was hoping for. If this were truly an open-source project, I could look over that and hope it would become improved later, but if that's just an advertising strategy for a later commercial closed-source project, nah.

There's still a lot missing until this is a product worth paying money for.

 

And that's why no horse-mouth should be safe from inspection.

 

Yeah, I came into this thread totally confused.

 

1) Unity uses C#, UE4 will use C# as well
2) feature set: something new in compare with Unity? nah
3) bugs - Unity/UE4 is much "mature". Do you want alpha-tester?
4) is it free?? NO, it doesn't. You must use Xamarin in order to get it on "mobile"
https://store.xamarin.com/
you must pay $25/month per developer per platform (free version is too limited).
iOS + Android = $50/month
forr example you could get great UE4 only for $20
5) perfomance problem: there is Low FPS even on demo-video
6)Unity thinks about il2cpp, paradox still uses Mono
7) they changed licensing (for Xamarin) http://forums.xamarin.com/discussion/9902/xamarin-license-is-not-perpetual-anymore/p1
what's next?
8) etc etc etc

Update:
paradox3d.net/download

Business License == $83 / month
is this a joke????

 

That video above doesn't show much tbh.

 

C# is not .NET.
Let me ask you again, do you even code?

I'm alpha/beta testing Unity's new gui as of now, so yes, I don't mind testing a new engine for free.

Your other points doesn't affect "me" right now so I will not debate them. I will weigh the cost to benefits when they actually charge for it.

 

Oh, I'm still messing around with it. My free time will be split.

First impressions of my 30 min with Paradox Game Engine 1.0.0-alpha09
Importing a simple model makes the Asset View crawl and my cpu fan spin up.
No scene editor!!
Not sure about the blender export scale. I had to scale my model to about 50 to make it a nice size.
You can build from Visual Studio.
Intellisense works! And with comments that are actually helpful!
They seem to be using their own version of WPF. Too bad they just don't use the real WPF, maybe speed?
Looking through the code samples. It looks to be a much better environment for coders.

Well thats what I got from my first use of the engine. Unity still owns the "get a quick prototype out." But this engine seems to have a lot of potential. I'll be keeping a close eye on this one.

 

alt.tszyu you are so funny.
"CLR via C#" was my "Bible" for many years

 

dvu, the point is: Unity uses Mono, and an outdated version of that as well. The engine soon to be known as The Engine Formerly Known As Paradox Engine uses the Microsoft .NET runtime, and an up-to-date version of that.

I have to say seeing the "async" keyword made me drool out of my mouth. I so want that in Unity.

 

There is no scene editor by the way. Not really competition yet.

 

Thanks. I try.

Excellent book!

Now tell me. Is C# == .NET?

 

yes, of course :
1) C# is most popular language for .NET developers around the World ( I heard that some devs in some countries sometimes uses VB.NET but I never met them in my life ah, Javascript.NET became popular when Unity appears on the market )
2) C# is the language that uses almost all features of .NET platform
so, when we are saying ".NET" we means C#, when we are saying "C#" we means ".NET" I don't know any exception

potential to pay $83/month for things which are avaliable for free in Unity ? or for one payment ($20) in UE4? OMG World is going crazy

sssh, alt.tszyu is here

 

Unity's C# is NOT executed on the .NET runtime! Exclamation mark exclamation mark exclamation mark!

 

Wow...speechless.

 

Well. When people post on a forum dedicated mostly to programming, can they please in future pretend to have some form of intelligence or competence? It's getting tiring moderating clowns that bump into each other screeching gibberish made up stuff.

When posting, people should at least google if they're unsure on a fact. Disclaimer: This post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

 

yes, next knowledge you must get is: .NET runtime uses JIT-compiler that uses CIL (Common Intermediate Language) that were generated from C#-souces (in 99% of cases).
but don't load your brain
for purpose of game development (in Unity 3d) you need to know a little subset of C#, you don't need to know such strande words like JIT, CLR, CIL
the less cool features of any .NET language (C#, Managed C++, Visual Basic .NET, Visual J# .NET) you use -> less size of your mobile app (more cool features means more .NET assemblies will be included to your *ipa/*.apk)
so, .NET means C# if we are in game development's context

 

It looks okay, but this might be an engine to keep eyes on. I'm rather attached to Unity but I won't flounder to another one because of a video. When a game is made with the engine then I might consider it but I won't say it's bad.

 

Is that license even truly open source? I'm not very good at reading licenses, but it feels like they could terminate it at any time they wish. It certainly doesn't read like one of the normal open source licenses.

Personally if I were going to give an open source engine a whirl, I'd try this one that appeared on Reddit a while ago.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/2fbkzr/dt3_open_sourcing_my_game_engine_fourteen_years/

 

Unity does NOT use .NET! It uses Mono, which does NOT support a lot of features .NET does support (even in C#), which has worse performance than .NET does, and which also is very outdated by now.

Also, I know what JIT is. I know what CIL is. Stop trying to pretend you are some sort of genius by throwing around a bunch of abbreviations, because it does not work.

And you are still wrong and completely missing the point.

 

Also, if you are looking for a free game engine (as in free, libre, open-source software), try jMonkeyEngine.

 

you are the only person who missed the point.
The point is simple: for 99,9999% of game creators the phrase "Engine XXX supports .NET" means the only thing: they can use C# instead of C++ for scripting. They don't care about Mono, .NEt Runtime etc etc etc They care about" easy to script or not?".
while you are trying to look so smart (with your follower alt.tszyu) you lose the point.
Unity doesn't lose point. They don't try to increase perfomance by migrating to pure C++ (like Unreal Engine, Blueprints in 10x times slower than C++), UT thinks about il2cpp that increase perfomance, they understand the point about easy scripting.

 

Thanks for sharing this. Developed over 14 years but still all done by one person. Impressive!

 

But Paradox doesn't try to increase performance by switching to pure C++ either, they just use a better C# implementation than the one of Unity. And that also means that scripting gets easier because C# 5 has some really neat new features we don't get in Unity, because we're stuck with a pre-war version of Mono.

 

next point you lose with your alt.tszyu is user base. Unity is the only real cross-platform engine.It supports every popular platform and it supports it very well (in compare with other game engines). Bigger user base -> bigger potential revenue. Are you smart to understand that?
I laugh when once again I see the post : "new super engine, Unity will die" (something like this).Espessially when some engine requires almost $100/month for deploying for only two mobile platforms
consoles? - ah, forget for 1 year at least may be another $100/month and you'll be able to deploy to consoles
I am laughing when I see the Engine without scene editor (now 2014 year!!!)
I am laughing whe I see a demo-video with low FPS -> engine is not ready for commercial use. DEMO VIDEO!!! it looks strange ( UE4's demos look much better).
so, there are only two competitors on the market Unity3d and UE4.
Unity3d is best tool for mobile development (I tried another engines -> none compete with Unity, excellent support of mobile platforms -> I really love Unity for this), UE4 is best for PC/consoles (I really love UE4 for their editor, for their blueprints, for their graphics features )

 

Check out the engine I linked earlier. It supports Windows, Mac OS X, and should be easily ported to Linux. It also supports Android and iOS. So the only platforms left are those that very few people use and consoles.

 

I have already made that very point before. But quite obviously, you don't give a sh*t because you are the only intelligent person in this discussion.

 

1) Unity will be faster because of il2cpp
2) more cool features means more .NET assemblies will be included to your *ipa/*.apk. Size of Unity's app will be less than Paradox's app -> it's pretty critical for mobile devs. For real mobile development you don't need tons of cool C# features. It's not an Enterprise Development. A small subset of C# is the only requirement.

 

Point 2 is only true when referring to the API, which I wasn't. I was talking about the language syntax.

 

Yeah. I'm gonna assume English is not your first language, its not mine either, so you might not quite be making the points you think you are making.

I didn't know iOS and Android could run .NET assemblies, but then again, to you C# is .NET.

 

Unity currently includes a lot of extra cruft. It includes two physics engines in every build, for example, even if you're using one or neither of them. It includes a sprite rendering system, a particle system, legacy OnGUI assets, and on and on and on. It's impossible to get Unity-made apps below a certain size (somewhere around 10MB I think).

In some future release they are going to allow you to strip out systems you don't use, though. This is going to be especially vital for WebGL, where the player has to download the entire engine -in generated javascript- in order to play the game.