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New tool to replace maya ?

Discussion in 'External Tools' started by EducaSoft, Jun 5, 2009.

  1. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    Hi there

    I am looking for a tool to replace MAYA here.
    Not that I hate maya or so, but I spend 2000 euro on this tool at version 8.0 (complete) and it doesn't run anymore on vista the way it should.

    Therefore, Is there any alternative which is not that expensive and good enough for low poly modeling, texturing and basic rigging/skinning?

    I've seen Cheetah3D on their website, is that usable or are other 3d tools still needed ?

    Any help/tips are welcome

    Bart
     
  2. GusM

    GusM

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  3. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    Thanks, I'll check it out.

    I heard blender is nice but with difficult user interface. I don't know how much of that is true however :)
     
  4. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    Another vote for Blender. As for the interface, give it a day or so and I'm sure you'll adapt to it. If you run into issues, be sure to check out the Blender Artists forums: http://blenderartists.org/forum/
     
  5. Jessy

    Jessy

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    I always thought Blender had a pretty good UI. Better than Maya's, certainly. It works for me.
     
  6. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    Well I started it up and allready feel lost.

    Thats most probably of course because I'm used to maya.

    So ---> I think best is to search if I can find a damn good beginners tutorial :) for blender.
     
  7. Jessy

    Jessy

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    I like video tutorials.

    http://www.gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html
     
  8. Martin-Schultz

    Martin-Schultz

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    I'm using Cinema4D. Quite nice tool and runs on OS-X and Windows.
     
  9. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    Don't feel bad, that's how I feel when I look at Maya (or Max, or C4D, or Modo, or Cheetah or anything else). ;) It took me a couple days of dedicated effort to pick up Blender, but once I did I was a convert forever. I recommend you learn to use Blender with its default UI settings first. That way you'll be able to follow the tutorials more easily. But once you've gotten the hang of it, you can tweak and change the UI to almost anything you want. The link GusM posted is just one example, but there's no limit to what you can do. As I model, UV map, texture and render, I'm constantly rearranging the UI to what I'm doing. I can't do that in any other 3D app I've tried, and now that I'm used to working that way I can't ever see going back. I use Blender almost all day almost every day and I still haven't learned more than 10% of what it can do. Just the other day I needed to lay 2 km of pipe along the surface of a rough mountainous terrain. Took me a couple of tries (and a post at Blender Artists) to find a way to do it, but once I did it only took me a couple of seconds to do it. Would have taken me days to do it by hand. Awesome tool.
     
  10. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    I do intend to learn it indeed since I don't want to give another 2000 euro to Autodesk for a piece of software which isn't bad but which is old so fast that it can't even run reliably anymore on vista.
     
  11. emptythetill

    emptythetill

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    Maya 2008 runs fine on Vista, so I'm not sure why you'd want to turn to Blender. :?:
     
  12. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    Maybe because I "bought" version 8.0 complete and not 2008 and I don't want to give Autodesk 2000 euro again (no, can't upgrade from 8)
     
  13. f3rDz

    f3rDz

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    you can try the free softimage mod tool then customize the navigation to resemble it a la maya from the preference menu. you have to use the fbx exporter to be able to use it in unity though.
     
  14. islanddreamer

    islanddreamer

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    If Educasoft doesn't want to give Autodesk another 2000 euros for Maya, I doubt that he'd be interested in giving them $3000 for Softimage. (I'm so glad I got on the XSI bandwagon with version 6! I strongly recommend the software, but I agree that the new retail price is very tough to swallow.)
     
  15. f3rDz

    f3rDz

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    I was talking about the free mod tool. :) and that's available only if their game would be the non commercial type. :)
     
  16. neo

    neo

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    Cheetah 3D does have animation tools....and its a lot easier to learn than Blender, at least for me. I think it delivers more value for its cost than Blender, even though Blender is free.
     
  17. aaron parr

    aaron parr

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    Cheetah's animation system can be annoying if you are used to animation software with more tools available. The system basically consists of creating poses, setting them at key frames and then letting the software interpret between them.

    Other than this shortcoming, I can not recommend Cheetah enough. Its interface is intuitive and very well organized. You don't need to know what you are doing in order to figure it out quickly and get results. The rendering engine is very good quality. And while you don't have every tool you can imagine for modeling and texturing, the tools offered are more than adequate for creating game assets. The materials system will be upgraded this year. Screen shots of this update are impressive.

    I recommend downloading the trial and trying it. If you are willing to get over the UI hump with Blender, admittedly it has much much more functionality. But thats why I keep it up to date on my hard drive in case I need what it offers.
     
  18. n0mad

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    Cinema 4D is about 800 $ ;)
     
  19. Jessy

    Jessy

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    For what it's worth, I have tried several versions of Cheetah, and always found it confusing and difficult to deal with. On the flip side, I found Blender to be much more logical and easy to learn. (That may be partially because Blender can do a lot more than Cheetah, which means I didn't need to dig for information on how to perform a task, only to find that the software was incapable of said task, as much.)

    I'm very much a Mac person, too, and despite Cheetah advertising this...

    ...I don't agree. I'm not suggesting that Blender is at all well-integrated with OS X, because it is actually really crappy in that department, but the things I love about OS X (which are largely workflow and efficiency-related), I feel, are better reflected in Blender than they are in Cheetah.
     
  20. melmonkey

    melmonkey

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    Here is a vote against XSI, if it means anything to you. That tool is the worst I have used out of the big three. Crashes all the time, stops exporting for no real reason, kills scene files and model files with no way of recovering them.......Uggh.

    You mileage may vary. Take it with a grain of salt. I hate XSI.
     
  21. islanddreamer

    islanddreamer

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    Hmmm. I've never seen those kinds of issues with Softimage.
     
  22. rik338

    rik338

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    or just try to put windows xp on it or a other one because 2000 euro isn´t nothing :wink:
     
  23. holmeren

    holmeren

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    C4D!
    Im about to switch from Max
     
  24. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    Funny how these threads always turn into a "my 3D app is better than your 3D app" debate. I keep promising myself I won't get sucked into another thread like this, but somehow I always do. :D
     
  25. kattkieru

    kattkieru

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    Cinema 4D is very nice, and very friendly. However, the $8-900 price tag does not include the character animation system -- you have to order the XL bundle for that, which will run you $1800. (Or the price of the base + just the Mocca 3 module, which would be a bit cheaper.) It plays well with Unity and is pretty stable. You also get the benefit of a 3D painting system that's like touching the hem of the robes of a religious icon.

    Cheetah is cool, cheap, and powerful for what you pay, but I always feel like I'm hitting limits when I use it. I've thought to buy it multiple times, tried the demo, then run into one or another limit that bothered me enough to stop me from plunking down the cash. Still, if you're less picky than me you can do much worse. It's a solid program with a competent developer.

    Blender is always my recommendation of choice. At this point there are very few things it can't help you do, and it's the only thing that's been mentioned in this thread that offers a sculpting tool set that can also help you create normal maps for 3D game engines. Don't feel bad about the UI -- the first time I used Blender ( 1.8 ) I threw up my hands in disgust and didn't return for six months. Then I went back, and started learning it in earnest. I've been using it for over five or six years now, I think, and I even work it into projects when I work at studios. It's the best modeling and UVing tool on the market. As far as game animation goes, it's good enough for most situations (although as much as I love it, I'm feeling chafed by its constraint system; it's nowhere near as powerful as Maya), and the best part is it'll always be there for you. If you learn Blender today, you won't have to worry that it doesn't run on Windows 9. I'm sure there'll be a build ready for download.

    If you are going to go the Blender route, I highly recommend the books by Tony Mullen, as he's an excellent writer and covers a lot of stuff. However, for beginnings I'd try to walk through as much of the Blender Noob to Pro stuff on the Wiki. It looks bad but gets you through the basics.

    If you still can't get over the UI, wait a few months for 2.5 to hit. It's still in the early stages but the new UI shows promise.

    Those are my two cents. Remember in the end that it's not about what's the best software, but what's best for you and your budget. As far as budget goes nothing can beat Blender, but the UI isn't for everyone.
     
  26. f3rDz

    f3rDz

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    how about wings3D for your modeling and motionbuilder for your animation.
     
  27. JTinGA

    JTinGA

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    I understand your frustration with having purchased Maya 8, having it not work well on the latest OS's, and being outside of the upgrade window therefore needing to buy a full version.

    Aside from the tool debate that this has turned into, I think which type of tools are best suited for you largely depends on two things: A - Your budget B - what you plan to do with it, do you want to make a product, sell a service, get a job, or are you a hobbyist?

    - Joe
     
  28. maxfax2009

    maxfax2009

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    Get modo now before price goes up

    http://www.luxology.com/

    So fast and the UV system rocks.

    Look at the new 401 which comes out in about 1-2 weeks.

    modo is so ace.


    CINEMA 4D = 995.00 with NO hair or NO BodyPaint 3D, NO Advanced Render 3 (more like 3,000 +)

    Where modo is $895.00 - with hair, fur, Advanced Render, Animation, paint and lots more!


    PLUS:

    "New purchases of modo now include a free
    upgrade to modo 401 (a $395 value!)" = from Lux web site


    totally up to you - but should test drive modo :) and see what you think :)
     
  29. chiefarchon

    chiefarchon

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    If you are willing to spend money then I recomend Cinema 4D as it has a very simmilar workflow to maya. but is way way cheeper.

    Its also on special offer right now.

    Even with the basic version you also get Badypaint which is awsome.

    its also modular so you can start with the basic program and then go on to getting the other modules later.

    Ive used it for years and swear by it.

    :D

    ps

    If you go to buy it you should mention that you are a Maya user and you will get a hefty discount for switching over (I know I did mwahaha)

    http://www.maxon.net/
     
  30. chiefarchon

    chiefarchon

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    Wrong!!!!!

    Cinema 4D is on 50% discount at the moment and you can get all sorts of things for it including the hair module. In fact there are a number of different configurations that you can get it in and some do contain things like the hair module.
     
  31. Wadoman

    Wadoman

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Cinema4D only 50% off if you crossgrade from an existing license of an approved software package.
    Example: to buy Cinema4D at 50% off you have to have license copy of max, Maya etc.
    To buy Bodypaint 3D at 50% off you need to have a licences copy of Mudbox or zbrush.

    This what I got from the email ad and site.
     
  32. Deleted User

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    Bodypaint is inside Cinema4d R11 :wink:

    So i think you can buy Zbrush and crossgrade to Cinema4d+ Bodypaint

    Correct me if it's wrong.
     
  33. chiefarchon

    chiefarchon

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    yes but the orriginal post did say that the poster already had Maya, which definitely counts :p
     
  34. chiefarchon

    chiefarchon

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    I can't speak for earlier versions but even the basic version of C4D has included the full version of bodypaint since version 10. And in my oppinion that makes it super value right there!
     
  35. Wadoman

    Wadoman

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    Ok I just read the original post. Why wouldn't he just upgrade Maya to the most recent version instead of buy and learning a completely new software? It costs $2000 to upgrade to Maya 2009 complete and I think like $900 to upgrade to Maya 2008 complete. It's better then losing all that time learning something new and hoping you like it.
     
  36. chiefarchon

    chiefarchon

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    yeah... that does sound wierd! I'd phone a salesperson from Maxon first if you dont already have Zbrush...

    But if that's true... sounds like a RESULT to me :p
     
  37. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    From ZBrush/Mudbox you can only sidegrade to Bodypaint/C4D basic as Mudbox/ZBrush are rather specialized painting software..
    I'd recommend C4D XL bundle for game content because you can render AO/GI (texture baking) and have all the chatracter tools. According to Maxon yet contrary to a thread on these boards joints still don't work properly, though.

    You can sidegrade from about any of the other larger complete 3D suites, though. So from Maya it is possible to sidegrade to C4D XL.
    If you want hair you need to buy that plugin, too or the comeplete Studio bundle.
     
  38. sama-van

    sama-van

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    You could try Gmax, it's free! This is a free version of 3dsmax but I don't really know the connection with Unity after that...

    http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax

    Finally I will follow some people arround saying "Upgrade and keep maya".

    If you already paid for Maya and doesn't work on Vista, let download a cracked verison on internet and problem is resolved.
    Maya 2008 works very well on Vista just download it.

    You paid 2000 euros... it's crazy!!! you don't have to be worry!
     
  39. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    Suggesting someone download and use an illegally hacked piece of software on a software developers forum isn't a particular smart thing to do. Especially if you're posting in another thread that you're looking for work. Congratulations, you've just added yourself to my "never do business with this person" list. :roll:
     
  40. sama-van

    sama-van

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    Nop you don't understand, Maya is supposed to be ok on Vista.
    The current problem is Autodesk problem actually.

    And don't be worry I don't have any problem with Maya licence. :D I will be happy to work with you :mrgreen:

    And the guy already spent 2000 euros!!!
     
  41. bigkahuna

    bigkahuna

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    No, you don't understand. Nothing justifies "stealing" software, and suggesting that it might be ok for any reason is a clear indication of your ethical attitude. And to post it on a software developers' forum? Hmm... :roll:

    There are lots of other, legal and ethical solutions to this poster's dilemma that other people have suggested, including switching to a cheaper / free application that he can afford, or even just downgrade his operating system back to XP.
     
  42. RHD

    RHD

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    Wow, I wish I thought $2000 wasn't a LOT of money, especially for software you've no guarantee will work on the latest Windows OS and for which you'll get no help or refund if it doesn't.
     
  43. Wadoman

    Wadoman

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    $2000 is a lot of money. My point is that if he is used to Maya(one of the top industry apps) then why not upgrade to at least 2008 for $900 so he can be right back on track without taking a step down and getting lost in a new software.

    Of course 2008 will work on vista.

    .......just buy blender
     
  44. RHD

    RHD

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    It's way past time some better 3D software came on the market that AutoDesk didn't buy and over price.

    Here's hoping.
     
  45. Per

    Per

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    Actually not true, C4D core comes with plenty of CA tools all the joints, IK and the rest, a full CA animation system. MOCCA is for the most part just more esoteric additions to the CA pipeline with the notable exception of Morphs/Blendshapes being in MOCCA rather than the core.

    To me the Unity interface itself feels closer to C4D than to the other options listed so far, which could be a plus in terms of workflow, however I'm only starting out to test Unity at the moment so I can't really comment on how strong a bridge or good the workflow is between the apps as compared with Maya or the others.
     
  46. sama-van

    sama-van

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    2000 euro = 2807$ US....

    About me it's arround one month of salary work... When I have a work
    :D
     
  47. RHD

    RHD

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    I actually don't find the C4D interface all that easy to use. I'd like to because it works on a Mac, but I don't. Plus I just did a an animation of a door opening and Unity managed somehow to totally scramble it. The door opened the wrong way and jerked back and forwards about 5 degrees in Unity. When I reopened the file back in C4D it was now corrupted so it did the same thing there.

    I'm a bit stuck now as to how to proceed.
     
  48. sama-van

    sama-van

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    I got a flashback tonight :D

    I bought this book some month ago :
    http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/4797347376/


    This is a very good tutorial about Low poly character modeling.
    And all the book is explaining modeling technic on this program :


    http://www.metaseq.net/metaseq/download.html

    Metasequoia is first a Japanese program but lot of independant people in Japan are working with this program (for creating Doujin) and sometime result is near of crazyness!
    When you start the program you can choose English language

    Anyway, this program is free, very light,there is a SDK, and you can export your 3D as *.obj or *.3ds file, etc... (FBX and Collada are not supported)

    Anyway,
    here are some exemple of work created with this program :

     
  49. RHD

    RHD

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  50. Alec

    Alec

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    I use Silo for modeling, sweet workflow and works well when I rig and animate in blender.