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New Project for 2023 - What are the must have asset store assets....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Amon, Nov 19, 2022.

  1. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Absolutely not. Your first criteria should be looking at if those files are DLLs or if they're source files to ensure extensibility and modification.

    This sounds like a failure of project management more than it does a failure of ASE. What do you mean you "couldn't patch the game for a month?" ASE produces bog standard Unity shaders and, if need be, you can edit the shader files themselves in any IDE. The node structure won't update, but it's hardly impossible to manage. The only thing ASE does that isn't Unity standard is provide a node graph for editing.

    As you mention, this isn't the tool's fault, but instead another failure of project management.

    Four people spent a week trying to fix a ramp? Or a hole? You're giving really nebulous descriptions of problems here about a tool I and many, many others have used across many projects at many different scales. Also, if people working on the project forget how to do offline bakes, that's another failure of management, this time in internal training.

    Odin's chief features are that it improves workflow elsewhere, more than making up for a very minor increase in domain reload times.

    You don't. If you actually looked into how DOTween's files were structured, you'd start to see how ridiculous your statement was. In the DOTween directory, you'll quickly see that 16 files are .cs and 6 are DLLs. The bulk of the files in there are things that the editor features rely on like icons and other image files. Additionally, DOTween covers more use cases than simple A to B curves. If you did not realize this at the time, this is another failure of project management because of an inability to properly evaluate a tool.

    Again, this a failure of project management. If it's taking that long to rip out and replace, you didn't properly abstract your save functionality away from the asset.

    I have used multiple hierarchy assets and they all function pretty much the same way. None of these things are expensive to render in the slightest and I've not once had them come close to halving editor fps.

    Okay so I'll be the first to admit that ProBuilder is an awful piece of garbage but it literally says it's a prototyping tool in its description.

    I'm sorry but the vast majority of what's being described here really sounds a lot more like you've failed to account for abstraction and scalability in your project, especially when you start making complaints about the size of things like DOTween. It also sounds like you've incorporated assets in the past without properly evaluating their use case beforehand.
     
  2. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    Hmmm... looks interesting... but it's last update was in October 2021.
    Did they deprecate it in favour of UIToolKit becoming the new UI meta?

    From someone who's worked on the same project for 12 years, my go to assets are...

    InControl
    NGUI
    Bakery
    Editor Console Pro
    SR Debugger (although it is outdated and has some issues, I would love to see someone else make a modern version of this with UIToolKit)
     
  3. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    As a long time Noesis user, I have to advice against using them. When I last imported, their heavy reliance on the old input system meant that it was an uphill battle to get any code to work. That said, most of the functionality (aside from the ability to use external IDEs for UI authoring) have been mostly implemented in UIToolkit at this point.
     
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  4. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    Thanks for the feedback, I would anyway never purchase a critical asset like a UI system if it hadn't been updated in over a year.
     
  5. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Odin and DOTweet.

    Speaking of which Odin Inspector is frequently mentioned but there is an Odin Validator too which you can use to check for mistakes that would have otherwise slipped through the cracks like missing references.

    https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/utilities/odin-validator-227861
     
    spiney199 likes this.
  6. spiney199

    spiney199

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    This shouldn't be the case if you're using the pre-compiled version of Odin. If you download it as source, sure, but I only have Odin downloaded as source in one project so I can poke around the code.
     
  7. SteveJ

    SteveJ

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    With all that cash, I strongly recommend you buy copies of all my games. They will teach you valuable lessons in how NOT to design video games. 9 out of 10 Steam reviewers can't be wrong.
     
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  8. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Documentation, for one. The new input system isn't as bad as it seems at first, but the introductory docs assumed a certain scenario and were pretty opaque outside of that, leading many to assume it's far more complicated to use than it really is (specifically, to integrate where the old system is in use).

    There are also some odd, counter-intuitive design decisions.

    Also, there were some bugs which hung around for ages. Input is pretty fundamental to a game engine, so letting bugs hang around always ft pretty iffy.

    Rewired is a little clunky, but straightforward and pain free. Easy to see why it's prefferred by many.
     
    Ryiah likes this.
  9. useraccount1

    useraccount1

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    Looks like they still update it. Version 3.1.6 was released on 18 Nov 2022.

    That's not true. UI toolkit still lacks many basic features you would expect to use in your UI, and some have been broken for years (like the text shadow). Even the developers recommend not using it for runtime UI. Also, it still has several performance issues, and the developers behind it made very little progress in the last few years.
     
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  10. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    It also has a broader range of support for obscure devices, is less buggy (as mentioned above), and -- importantly -- the developer responds quickly. You'll usually get a reply the same day and bug fixes within days. With a Unity package like the Input System, you'll submit a support ticket, wait as long as a couple of weeks for a first-line engineer to reproduce the issue before kicking it up to the developers, and then they'll either mark the issue as "won't fix" or schedule it for some future release.
     
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  11. EricFFG

    EricFFG

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    There were definitely some project management failures, yet we were very conservative with assets for the most part and quite strict on minimal usage. If you look at this thread, people go shopping for 20 assets like picking from a candy store. Everyone here will do project management mistakes, especially people which have shopping lists of assets before even starting a project.

    The point is that the longer you go and the bigger your project becomes, the higher the chance that these things will explode. If you do smaller non commercially released projects with not high ambitions most of the things will probably not surface, but that is the danger of the assets, their flaws are unnoticeable until they suddenly arent. Hierarchy no problem with 1000 objects in scene? One year later your scene is 30k transforms now and you lose 20 fps from a hierarchy asset. This is the case with many many things.

    With Unity its bad enough that you are at the will of them and have no access to source code unless with a high cost, having to delete your lighting because some guy now you bought an asset from is now in a warzone, or an another guy supposed to fix an error which corrupts any compiled shader being sick for weeks or getting laid off, or 10 of your post effects breaking because unity added DLSS and they dont scale correctly etc - all these things can and will happen if you make yourself reliant on third parties of which you have zero control over. I'm not saying never get assets, but you need to be very careful with them. Some things you can fix, some things you can not and then you are quickly infront of a roadblock or deep pit of work at the worst possible time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022 at 3:03 PM
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  12. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    You clearly weren't if somebody was able to drop in an entire audio asset that didn't fit your project.

    Again, no. Things like Odin, Easy Save, ASE? All these things are used in every single project I make. They come with a recommendation because they're largely workflow tools that dramatically improve development speeds. Things like Dialogue System For Unity are practically a given if you're making a game that's going to have branching dialogue and variable tracking related to that.

    There are plenty of things, including asset use, that you should consider before starting a project. A sale is a good time to actually commit to those purchases.

    If you have 30k transforms in your hierarchy, the performance loss isn't coming from icons and folders unless you've failed to consider how to use them in the first place. I tested just now in a project I have that has 24,500 GameObjects in the hierarchy (one of my ECS vs MonoBehaviour evaluation benchmarking projects) with Hierarchy+, Enhanced Hierarchy 2, and QHierarchy, which I bought specifically for this test.

    There was no meaningful change to performance. This specific project usually hits about 75fps, and I was getting 71-81fps. Completely normal ranges.

    None of the things you've listed here are things that are the fault of assets and are instead you railing against things like not having source access to Unity or assets. The thing is, however, I even covered that earlier when it came to assets:

    On top of that, a lot of your complaints don't fit into many of the examples you listed in the first place. What it sounds like is that you're suffering from a lot of scalability issues, but scalability issues that exist internal to your project's development.
     
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  13. PutridEx

    PutridEx

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    To be fair ASE didn't support HDRP 2021 for a long time, for a while it went months (I think over a year) without updates, until recently when the developer finally got back to working on his assets and adding support for new SRP versions. (2021, 2022). Amplify author is now only one person, the main developer, everyone else has left.

    I assume that's what eric meant by not being able to compile ASE for 2021.3. It didn't support HDRP 2021 for a while.

    Until the last few weeks with many updates improving and adding SRP support for these versions.
    Amplify Imposters still doesn't support 2021/2022 HDRP, been a while since the last update, but recently he mentioned plans to update it after ASE.
     
  14. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I addressed this as well:

    At the same time though, this still ends up being poor project management. If you haven't checked to make sure upgrading the SRP you're using won't cause issues, you're setting yourself up to fail. Additionally, this is the exact sort of thing that version control (which is being used, as mentioned in the section about Easy Save) can account for.

    The more you look at the whole story in the post, the more this really does become project issues, not asset ones.
     
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  15. lmbarns

    lmbarns

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    Personally MeshBaker ends up in my projects. Like combining materials/textures of objects so they can be properly batched by Unity, combining meshes, even combining skinned meshes for custom characters systems like UMA.
     
  16. Meltdown

    Meltdown

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    Where do you see that? This is all I see in the asset store...

    upload_2022-11-25_9-7-1.png
     
  17. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Just for completeness sake, you could try what happens if you swap one object repeatedly between two parents by script (like every other frame or so). Unity uses the canvas concept for its UI after all. Therefore the hierarchy will only be redrawn when it is "marked dirty" aka when a change occured.
     
  18. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    No asset store stuff. (but if you get some, and it is for stuff that is used in game and not editor tools, dlls are a no-no, as was already said)

    Just use FMOD Studio (check their licensing first) instead of Unity's built in audio stuff (which are based on ancient FMOD), if you plan on doing something even the slightest bit more complicated with audio.
     
  19. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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  20. EricFFG

    EricFFG

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    This sounds like you did not have a real production project of slightly larger scale yet in Unity.

    Unity LTS is a constant struggle of forced updates because of unity things not working.
    This complexity grows much higher the more assets you have which often will break on updates.
    For Amplify, Unity broke a thing somehow which broke something for Amplify, which they could not patch us as one guy was sick etc et and then suddenly you are screwed as all your shaders can't be compiled again with ASE meaning you can't do any changes. Yes Amplify provided me years of good value and its was a great buy for the previous years but now it has to go and its many hours of work.

    Best example is that we are now forced to go for 2022 non LTS because Xbox literally dosn't accept games without DirectX12 anymore and it is still experimental on LTS. Guess how many things will break doing a switch to 2022.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022 at 3:29 PM
  21. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    This is the "clearly you don't own an air fryer" of Unity dev posts. I've worked on projects of multiple varying scales across multiple different platforms. I know how to work in and around the engine.
     
  22. EricFFG

    EricFFG

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    Then you should know about the current and perpetual state of unity and unity updates or you were not the one fixing them.

    ...aand today we have to rollback Unity version again, because the Unity LTS version we had to upgrade to, (because Unity crashed at every second CTRL+Z input), now likely causes a black shadow atlas issue with players, so we are back to a previous version and have to live without CTRL-Z for a while. Or some asset interacts badly sometimes with DLSS because all assets were written before DLSS existed, who knows, we didn't write them so we have no clue and have to guess. Lets see what is broken again afterwards.
     
  23. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Okay? Good for you. This is a thread about an asset store sale, not your personal gripes and project issues.
     
  24. EricFFG

    EricFFG

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    Its called an anecdote
    As to why mindlessy shopping for assets is a really bad idea and you should be as minimal in asset usage as possible to not be constantly dragged down later on with all the baggage you shopped on.

    Edit: Don't want to drag this out, all important has been said
    Yes the very thread is advocating for shopping sprees of assets before even the project starts, just be mindful with your purchases, profile the performance and delete right away what you don't need. And don't use Bolt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022 at 6:39 PM
  25. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Literally nobody is advocating "mindlessly shopping for assets."
     
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  26. Max-om

    Max-om

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    Let's get back on track

    UMotion Pro is on sale, it's a nice asset if you want to edit asset store animations in unity. It has IK support and you can alter animations with minimal effort
     
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