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Feedback New Project creation feedback - tell us what you need!

Discussion in 'Editor & General Support' started by willgoldstone, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

    Unity Technologies

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    Hey all

    so we are looking to make some improvements to the New Project creation process (yeah.. plenty of room there!) and would love your feedback on it - please consider filling in this survey and any additional context we don’t cover there of course feel free to discuss in the thread.

    https://unitysoftware.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_4JDRrV17kOCzhSl

    Thanks, looking forward to hearing from you as always

    Will
     
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  2. Baste

    Baste

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    I'm copying my "Do you have any other feedback" text here since maybe it's something that's interesting for other people? idk. Answers would also be nice for the questions, I guess!

    So, creating new projects, the big picture:

    The vast majority of times I create a projects it's to create a bug report or to test something. There's years between each time we make a new project that's supposed to actually turn into a video game and that several people are going to work on. So to me, the important parts of project creation is:
    - It should be fast
    - It should be easy to replicate the version and exact package combination of a different project, so I can reproduce bugs more easily.

    The first one has regressed greatly over the years. New project in Unity 4.7 takes 5 seconds. New basic 3D template in Unity 2020.2 takes 45 seconds.
    The second one wasn't an issue back in the days, since there was no such thing. These days, it'd be great if we could use some other project as a template, giving us the same versions and settings. That'd help tremendously in my most common use of "create a new project".

    More nitty gritty details:
    - We're missing a template for 2D URP
    - Templates in general are not fine-grained enough. We should be able to specify which packages we want to start with, as well as if we want the example scenes or not. Maybe the templates could just be pre-selected choices in a more finegrained project creation menu?
    - The default template's packages has gotten better. Thank you for finally not automatically including adds in every single project ever made!
    - The Hub keeps just having the worst UX ever made. The "new" button picks some version, and has a dropdown on the button where you get to select the version you actually want. The version selection should just be a dropdown in the project creation menu.
    - Can you even do anything about any of this feedback? The Hub doesn't seem to get any changes or improvements implemented ever. There's a lot of "we're working on it" posts that are 2+ years old for features that still doesn't exist.
     
  3. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    hey @Baste great to hear from you as always - totally agreed on the points about spec and replicability. Naturally I am hoping the survey bears out the points we shared here, though naturally we design our surveys to remove bias as much as we can.

    Anyway, answering your other points -

    - We're missing a template for 2D URP

    this will come as URP matures for 2D for sure, its planned and we are continuing to evaluate it.

    - Templates in general are not fine-grained enough. We should be able to specify which packages we want to start with, as well as if we want the example scenes or not. Maybe the templates could just be pre-selected choices in a more finegrained project creation menu?

    this is what I and I know many users experience a lot, and its why we are asking pointed questions in the survey about control over what goes into a new project.

    - The default template's packages has gotten better. Thank you for finally not automatically including adds in every single project ever made!

    insert thumbs up

    - The Hub keeps just having the worst UX ever made. The "new" button picks some version, and has a dropdown on the button where you get to select the version you actually want. The version selection should just be a dropdown in the project creation menu.

    this was a longstanding architectural issue tbh, we have to show templates based on the editor version as templates belonged to a version of unity. Now in our v3 hub we will have a New button leading to the choice of editor atop the window so its super obvious and doesn't feel backwards but yeah, thats a hard agree from me (except for the worst UX ever bit, seems a little harsh).

    - Can you even do anything about any of this feedback? The Hub doesn't seem to get any changes or improvements implemented ever. There's a lot of "we're working on it" posts that are 2+ years old for features that still doesn't exist.

    Hub team, focus and management have changed a lot lately, no disrespect to our prior team - we just have more investment and focus on it now, so expect more.
     
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  4. joshcamas

    joshcamas

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    Having a button to instantly create a project in its own folder would be incredible, since 90% of the time I make a new project it's to do a bug report. Making it so slow to create a new project makes me avoid bug reports more and more xD
     
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  5. Walter_Hulsebos

    Walter_Hulsebos

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    Definitely being able to create your own templates.

    I want to create my projects with a default-ish folder layout, the packages of my choice, and some assets (like Odin) pre-installed.

    I know it's possible right now, but it takes a lot of work and you should just be able to do it from inside Unity Hub in my opinion.
    And even if you make your own I haven't figured out how to exclude some of the default packages. Like Collab which I don't use.
    Custom Templates also reset for every minor version. If it's created in the Hub you could simply slap a warning sticker on it when there's a newer version of one of the packages verified or something... Instead of me having to copy the template for every version.

    Also being able to get custom project templates online, not just from Unity, but also via git URLs.
     
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  6. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    Glad this topic is open. :)

    Starting a new project is like receiving Ikea furniture and it doesn't make sense to do that manual labor every time.

    I agree with @TreeMSI, our custom templates should be online and stored on my account so they're always available. That's the kind of productivity feature I expect when paying for Pro/Plus.
     
  7. Nubnubbud

    Nubnubbud

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    We're missing a template for both URP and HDRP!

    and before you correct me, I don't think a concrete showroom or a five meter construction site are templates- they're demos, and tutorials, and really good demos (and terrible tutorials. come on, man, it's like an excited kid just threw all their notes at you.), but that doesn't make them useful. I'm not too good at the scripting side of things, I'm more of a level designer, but what struck me most about these templates- is that I have absolutely no clue what in these templates makes them HDRP, and that's a huge failure to deliver a clear message!

    Is the "VFXDefaultResources" something that will break things if I delete it? It sure sounds that way! Can I just delete all the assets and get going already?! Why do I have to load a pretty room with a bunch of fog and spotlights and dust then figure out how to not break things to make my game? I assume the packages are needed- but are they all needed? Are some just niche and taking up space, or is there one or three that will break everything?

    We need an HDRP template that is the bare minimum, and another with all the bells and whistles but both with no assets. Who cares about a fancy demo if the tutorial readme just links to a page that says "You can then use these examples as a reference when creating your own Scene in HDRP" and both give NO INFORMATION on actually starting an empty one, just some cursory info on converting an existing one?

    it's infuriating that I have been unable to find information on making a new HDRP project from scratch, or a list of what official packages are designed for it, as that would innately teach me what HDRP is capable of and how it differs from the others, not some butterflies over a planter in a concrete hallway.

    I love unity, but revealing a FREAKING FANTASTIC demo, then telling no one how to make one themselves, and not doing so for A YEAR after the release is just shooting yourself in the foot, and it's sad to watch. Unity probably lost a lot of new adopters by shoving an unexplained demo in their faces, and explaining it in a way only veterans would understand, while providing no template. I'm not a business major- I know how it works, you're not impressing me by making me sit through a fancy self-guided seminar each time I have a test project to try out.

    rant over.
    This rant funded through one(1) year of frustration by a small community of devs who are tired of being treated simultaneously as if they are tech-illiterate and the original fortran devs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
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  8. Baste

    Baste

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    You're completely right! A quick way to fix that would be for Unity to simply stuff everything that's not required into a "Demo assets (can be deleted)" folder.

    I'm pretty sure that the only assets you actually need to not delete (or at least keep 1 of) is the Assets/Settings/HDRP[X]Quality files, but that's in no way clear from just looking at the assets.
     
  9. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    I agree and and I'm also tired of this.

    Unity's execs tends to focus their effort on things that have trailer value and while I agree this is important for their business to get YouTube views and positive comments when compared to Unreal, they are totally missing their pro users demographic.

    If you look at the asset store best sellers, they all have something in common, and it's not coolness but productivity value because that's the only thing that bring us money. A new tool should allow you to provide new services or to work faster. That's it.

    We don't need templates designed by your ad department but templates designed by engineers for engineers.
     
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  10. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    I think there should be 2 presets. One so you can discover and test HDRP or whatever it is, and the other for just starting a new project. A commercial demo isn't default a template.
     
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  11. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Totally agree with the sentiments here and this is one of many reasons i am getting validation from you all with this survey. I want us to get to a place where any content is separate and optionally included - but here I go biasing with implementation details and I know our researchers will tell me off so I'll shh and leave you to tell me more of your needs folks.
     
  12. Nubnubbud

    Nubnubbud

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    well, if I was to make a very specific request on the topic, it would be... a set of them:
    • simply put, a template browser when making a project. treat all templates the same, or at least similar, and have a brief description on each.
    • the version selector should be on the project creation screen.
    • the projects list should be front and center, and the main part of the unity hub. the learn, community, and especially install tabs are good, but they shouldn't cover it.
    • the way preferences uses the same side menu is a little confusing
    • overall, it looks nice, and is clear and easy to browse, save for the notes above
    • Packages can be SUPER important to getting started on the right path. the package editor in the actual unity editor would benefit from being more visible to new users and easier to find.
    here, I'll make a realfast mockup of some things that can clear things up:
    unityhub1.png unityhub2.png
    there we go. If I was to change stuff about the UI itself, it'd be this. Visual space is precious in a little go-between/assistant app like this, and there's not enough information about things to actually fill it out if you make it bigger- so make it use the space in a more satisfying way.
    most is just little things, like that you can only see a few tutorials at a time, but I changed up most everything about the project creation menu, to make it more straightforward, and hopefully we'll be able to make and share templates sometime soon. (not sure if you can already, but if you can, it should definitely be a primary function of the template screen.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  13. Walter_Hulsebos

    Walter_Hulsebos

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    Having the ability to sort by tags in the Unity Hub makes a lot of sense to me.
    Especially with custom templates.

    So you'd be able to select the tag "2D" and all the 2D templates would show up.
    You might have templates like these:
    • Mobile 2D
    • URP 2D (Current experimental one)
    • Standard 2D Side Scroller template
    • Standard top-down 2D game.
    Hell, go crazy and add things like one with 2D vehicles, you have the Wheel Joint 2D's, use them!
    The first three exist, I see no reason for there to be more (specific) ones!
    Right now things like that are hidden away on GitHub, that's cool and all but beginners, the ones who need these things the most, probably don't know how to use git.

    It's also a massive problem with discoverability, people just don't know they exist.
    And even if they know about Unity's GitHub page, it's just one massive list with all sorts of demos, samples, experimental tools, and more. Not exactly fun to wade through if you're looking for something specific.

    You don't know what Unity Version they work for, installing them is a pain (Having to use GIT LFS for the FPS Project for one).
    They also too-often don't have pictures so you have no idea what's in them until you install it or look up if some YouTuber has a showcase of it - because the only public thing Unity often has about them is some obscure Twitter Post by the creator.

    Sorry about my rant, but there are so many cool demos and templates made by passionate team members, and Unity doesn't give those the exposure they deserve - the Unity Hub seems perfect for that, it's just not utilized enough.
     
  14. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    I agree and I would add that this is also true for professionals. We may be comfortable with a Git repo but Unity should keep in mind that we are working on company time. We need things to be easy and fast to use too, event if this is not for the same reason.

    Few years ago, during a keynote, Unity presented a nice feature allowing to use a VR headset in editor. It was very promising and I was looking for it but I never tried it. I vaguely heard it was somewhere on a Git repo but I couldn't risk to waste an afternoon struggling to install something that may never work. Despite being an excellent idea and ready for beta testing, Unity never released it. I wonder if the reason was that nobody tried it and Unity assumed we weren't interested.

    We were interested, but the feature wasn't available enough to be worth our time. What a waste of an opportunity for both Unity and us users.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  15. willgoldstone

    willgoldstone

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    Excellent point Marc I can only agree with you. There are more reasons for EditorVR being benched that are internal and more dull but effectively its an excellent point and likewise agreed with both of you that most people, myself included don't want to go searching through github in hope someone did a good job of describing their content.
     
  16. Walter_Hulsebos

    Walter_Hulsebos

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    Sorry to necro, but this was the only place I could think of that's kind of relevant, but will we be able to create custom or edit Feature sets?

    Doesn't say anything about it in the docs, but it would be great for modular presets for people that have their own UnityPackages.

    Unity - Manual: Feature sets (unity3d.com)
     
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