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New products and prices coming soon

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SaraCecilia, May 31, 2016.

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  1. elbows

    elbows

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    Oh I don't know, my experience with previous offers is that so long as you keep committing to 12 months at the end of every 12 month cycle, you are likely to hang on to the nice pricing, until such a time that Unity change the whole product pricing model/structure again (like happened today).

    Anything could happen in future but my main point is that there isn't anything I'm aware of to substantiate the claim that 'Later you'll be paying the full price'. Maybe it could happen but to make it sound like some certainty is unfair.

    The main thing I've learnt about Unitys attitudes towards subscriptions to date is that they really love the 12 month commitment stuff, and existing customers can get some nice pricing if they keep going along with that, but also face some heavy disincentives attached to going flexible.
     
  2. Zwilnik

    Zwilnik

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    Oh, and something else that would be a huge plus for Pro developers that the non-pros don't really need. I would love to be able to have a "don't use" optimisation option to ditch things like iAds, Unity Ads etc. libraries that still seem to make it into the Xcode build even though I've not used them in Unity. On mobile, space is everything and if you're not doing f2p stuff, it seems silly to still have all that overhead lumped in.
     
    quantumsheep likes this.
  3. orb

    orb

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    I half expect Unity 6 to announce the return of the Beast. Probably in version 6.6.6.

    Some are fine with it, but then I have a better argument for all-dark editors (already mentioned a few times earlier): Making editor tools means you have to adapt to two different looks. Which has the most users? Probably the free one, meaning Pro users are second-rate citizens when it comes to decent-looking editor extensions.
     
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  4. Zwilnik

    Zwilnik

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    That's what your Mac/PC's accessibility features are for. Set your screen to something more soothing and it helps for all your apps, not just the Unity editor :)
     
  5. mountblanc

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    I work as a programmer for a company on not unity related environments. In my spare time I am working with Unity to develop my Indie or if you prefer hobby project (As it seems Indie now days has a different meaning as 20 years ago) anyway I would love to buy the pro license if I had the money but can't. I would buy a Unity+ license for sure if it was without the splash screen.
    Like mentioned before the splash screen is hurting Unity itself by the low crap games that are pushed onto the stores quickly using a few assets just to get some quick sales using adverts.

    Most people don't know this but in the Amiga time there was an software program called AMOS where people could make their own Amiga games. It had a distinct Orange background while loading (it could be changed do but most didn't know that i assume) and a shortkey [Amiga + A] if i remember correctly) where people would realize the game was made using AMOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMOS_(programming_language)
    Even do it was in a time before Internet. Using a modem we logged in to BBS systems and believe me that AMOS games where not popular at all (even the good stuff) because of the bad name AMOS had by the crap that was put out. The same is happening now with Unity.

    So what I mean is that I would love to put my game out when it is finished without splash screen and I love to support Unity but my budget (and I bet of many others) only allows me to get the Unity+ version.

    So Unity, please remove it also for Unity+ and ill sign up in a heartbeat!
    If your worried people would not buy the PRO version if the Unity+ also does not have the splash screen than this would in turn mean you yourself don't think the Pro version has to offer what the price is standing for.

    Anyway that is my two cents.....
     
    quantumsheep likes this.
  6. J_P_

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    That's a good point -- hadn't thought of that. Why not have the splash screen on mobile act more like a notification? Temporary bar at the bottom or in the corner instead of taking up the entire view. So devs can leave room for it in their menu and it can look ok, but doesn't impact user experience negatively.

    (this could be optional if for some reason there are also advantages to the full screen splash screen on mobile)
     
    HeyItsLollie likes this.
  7. mdrotar

    mdrotar

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    Yes... but
    1. "Personal" wording was introduced in 5.0. The issue I described existed before 5.0. And even without the word "Personal" in the 5.4 splash screen, the core issue will still remain. Asset flippers will still have the same recognizable splash screen as game devs trying to make a solid game.
    2. The addition of the word "Personal" in 5.0 did only make things worse, which goes to show how poorly Unity is handling this. They're trying everything they can think of EXCEPT adding a middle tier that removes the splash screen. Why?
    Yes, and that's why people are expressing their dissatisfaction with the recent announcement. Do you see the reason for the complaints now?
     
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  8. SPIKY

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    So like other perpetual 5.x users, Unity is basically saying "Screw you, you don't get all 5 point updates like you thought you would when you bough the license"?

    Ofcourse this depends of the offering they'll make for the perpetual owners. Maybe a Plus or Pro subscription for a year or something for free?
     
    elias_t likes this.
  9. Zwilnik

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    I was on the original AMOS team and ran the AMOS Club. I know what you mean. One of the biggest selling points of the AMOS Compiler was that it let you turn your AMOS programs into 'proper' self contained apps that didn't have that AMOS startup. Plus it wasn't too tricky by then to tweak your compiled AMOS game to hide its AMOSity (Francois even let me play with the source code of AMOS to further tweak Jetstrike for instance ;) ).

    Even with all that, it was very hard to get above the "oh it's just a BASIC" game. Which is a similar problem to what older bloated Unity games used to have before Unity got more optimised and mobile devices and PCs got faster and bigger.
     
  10. jesusluvsyooh

    jesusluvsyooh

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    I've been reading all the posts on here and the main Unity blog post.
    So to sum it up:

    Plus version
    - Price cap raised from 100k to 200k
    - Your own splash screen option.
    (this would make many free users upgrade, and many who cannot afford pro version anymore to move to plus instead of free personal, and seems like the best business plan for money making for Unity and also beneficial for Devs)

    Pro version
    - Have option of two Pro versions. All modules, or one for a different price (eg just desktop)
    - More seats and not just 1, to cater for group of friends, schools, or very small studios. 2? 3?
     
  11. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    I agree however popularity should not be a cost factor and it should be tied more on development and maintain costs for the platforms.
     
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  12. elbows

    elbows

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    Certain potential PR or legal consequences from such a move will be avoided if they simply bring Unity 6 out around the date they've specified as the cutoff for perpetual 5 licence holders updates.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  13. mountblanc

    mountblanc

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    Its a bit off topic but Zwilnik thank you and off course Francois and the rest of the team for making AMOS.
    I bought AMOS and later AMOS pro and the compiler back in the day. I had a great time writing back then. I have the AMOS manual still somewhere as a reminder of that time!
     
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  14. J_P_

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    And mobile platforms undoubtedly take a lot more effort to maintain compatibility for. I bet I can still boot up Unity 3 and release a desktop app but Unity 3 can't do anything for iOS any more.

    It's not "popularity" it's whether or not there's a market for it. If there's no market for it, you can't charge for it (I mean, you can, but nobody will pay for it).
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  15. s-m-k

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    Still the ridiculous "haha, no black UI style for free users". I can't even imagine what kind of reasoning is behind making that trivial thing a pro feature.

    Not to mention that the pricing is pretty terrible itself. TBH, if the project I'm working on wasn't in a pretty advanced state (close to release), I wouldn't even consider using Unity (also I plan to abandon it for other reasons, but that's unrelated). Overall, good job.
     
  16. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Regarding the UI skin colour, I think it might be a nice thing to make entirely free for Unity 6 if only to stop the rest of the industry laughing at Unity for it. I mean, I don't know if I should be totally impressed by the fact the editor's colour can be sold, or shocked that it is charged for :)

    But it's a minor point, since I'm so impressed with the new area lights. Anyone else actually take a look at the tech coming?
     
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  17. spryx

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    So...to get this straight. Unity + Android Pro is now going to be $3000 instead of $1500.... :/
    But, I would get iOS Pro too....which I don't use.

    ...That is a pretty large increase. I think @ 3k, a lot of the existing pro users are going to find this one hard to swallow.
     
  18. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Unity + Android Pro was always $3000.

    If you weren't paying that, you were actually breaching the EULA before (you can't mix/match pro and personal). I'm not sure how it works where Desktop has no splash but you wanted splash for android though. Maybe that isn't breaching the EULA - perhaps someone can clarify for us.
     
  19. spryx

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    Not for upgrade pricing
     
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  20. laurentlavigne

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    That's a good idea: a Unity logo overlay. Something in the corner that is animated and looks good like the transformer logo.

    On a side note, did you guys notice how each Unite now has the same visual, do you remember, a few years ago when each Unite had its own visuals, and they looked very cool and showcased a new feature?
    I remember anticipating the next one just to see what cool graphics they would show and trying to figure out the cool new stuff they added - what a treat!
     
  21. Brity

    Brity

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    no we are too busy playing with our calculators :p
     
  22. MrEsquire

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    Its like having a Black Amex card or a Silver Credit Card.. is this some wealth status?
    Im rich so I have Unity Dark edition!!
     
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  23. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I think one of the problems Unity is having with suggestions like this is brand association, for example if Unity's brand is next to someone's logo of a unicorn humping, then that's kind of a no-go.
     
  24. J_P_

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    Is that really too different than seeing the unity logo before seeing something awful?

    I wasn't thinking just a logo though -- could say "Made with Unity" so it doesn't imply some sort of publisher relation. As long as it doesn't take up entire view, could still give it its own background to box it in and separate it from the rest of the app.
     
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  25. Brity

    Brity

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    hmm well i was replying to his comment about area lights... no too busy looking at our calculators... in other words f..ck the lights, it's more important that i can afford unity pro... blablabla

    but I dont think it has anything to do with status, its about if someone prefers using it (i do prefer darkskin) will that help tempt them into upgrading.

    The same with having unity logo. I dont think its about unity benefiting much from us advertising them, it's more about does it bother us enough that it would tempt us to upgrade.
     
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  26. kB11

    kB11

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    Sorry, I don't have time to read every single post, I simply checked the posts from Unity employees and didn't see an answer to my question:

    What happens if I make a game using the Personal Edition and make over 100k for a single year (afterwards I make less than 100k). How long do I have to subscribe to Unity Pro? Is it enough to subscribe for a year and go back to using the Personal Edition afterwards if I don't make enough money anymore?
     
  27. mountblanc

    mountblanc

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    On twitter Unity gave a link to this forum to communicate with Unity about the new prices. However the only official feedback on the subject from unity itself can be found here:
    http://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/05/31/new-products-and-prices/
    with some interesting feedback like:
    So it seems we are barking up the wrong tree.
     
  28. Teila

    Teila

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    You guys that ranted and raved about how much you needed a black UI scheme are the ones who made it a "thing". lol

    They realized that the skin and the logo were the biggest reasons people bought pro, especially after Unity Free became Unity Personal and was fully featured.

    I still remember the rants and raves and it is still happening. You let Unity know that you would pay for those two things, regardless of the fact that you got very little else with the Pro license.
     
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  29. MrEsquire

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    Yeh of course those things are 100 percent true and agree with you.
    They do need to do something, just these features are I feel wrong ones to do.
    Could have disabled something within the Editor, or limited Editor functionality.
     
  30. hippocoder

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    You only fall into a particular category while using unity and for future releases, so say you were <100k, released a title... that's fine even if that title earned you 50 million. You don't pay a thing. But at this point if you want to continue developing or releasing, you need to cough up some cash. So basically if you go above, don't develop, then fall below again, you're still safe (if the total at end of year <100k). But if you go above, and want to develop, you have to pay. But 3k out for 100k in? that's fair :p
     
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  31. MrEsquire

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    This is not 100 percent true, I remember they provided a number of reasons to upgrade to Unity 5 Pro before it was out and before they made changes to the structure and I remember as a mobile developer that these where just small extras, they made it a big deal in the last revamp they did!
     
  32. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    A lot more than 5-8 other platforms combined that have several times more of features enabled? I would disagree on that even though I know how much iOS has caused work for them :)

    The key point here was kinda related how much research and development stuff has gone on the desktop stuff while still keeping the same costs even with all the platforms and features added. Even if OSX or Linux are part of the minority they have to have everything supported and fixed on those platforms too. Then all the WebGL, VR, DX12, etc. that are still under work.
     
  33. Brity

    Brity

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    well i can speak for myself Teila and i can tell you that when I purchased pro it wasnt just for the darkskin, however I do prefer darkskin :)

    besides the various reasons someone would purchase pro, there is something that is more important than this little feature or that.. it's Unity's survival.

    When I pay for pro + upgrades i feel that I have helped support this company for their hard work and want them to continue to expand and improve this engine. without money it will all end.. no more unity pro ... no more unity free.
    no more Unity Team!! But if it becomes too expensive then I have no choice but to use unity free and slap on the shades :cool:
     
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  34. MrEsquire

    MrEsquire

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    I would not shed a tear;

    BlackBerry - RIP (no need to support it, less resources needed)
    Flash - RIP (no need to support it, less resources needed)
    PSP Vita - RIP (no need to support it, less resources needed)
    Windows Mobile - NEXT RIP (no need to support it, less resources needed)
    SamsungTV/Tizen,Saming (Low users, less support needed)

    So with some of these major platforms out of play or going to sooner later be.
    So l would assume less workload..
    Leaving iOS and Android only two really money makers
     
  35. VicToMeyeZR

    VicToMeyeZR

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    So Adobe - $50/month for 12 months. The software you get, used to cost $10,000+
    Unity - $125/month for 12 months. The software you get was $4500.. Hmmmmm..

    Why no a simple Pro version. All pro features, none of the crap. Desktop only, no VR, no mobile, no smart TV crap. Just straight PC, MAC, Linux. $50/month?

    If you go with this pricing model, you WILL lose me as a customer. Not only for the engine, but also the Asset store. And please do look at what I have spent there.
     
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  36. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    It was commented officially in here too and to me it seemed like a quick rescue idea for all the rage and I assume was never part of the original plan due the way it could affect various things.
     
  37. mountblanc

    mountblanc

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    ah then I need a new pair of glasses. Guess I get some sleep anyway been reading forums for 2+ hours that I normally would have spend on my Unity Project ;-)
     
  38. fffMalzbier

    fffMalzbier

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    To make it short... not happy about the way to going to get.
     
  39. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    Yep. For Windows Mobile support I think it was always partly sponsored by Microsoft in some way. Windows Universal support is not however disappearing and is the future for Windows phones. It's just unknown who will continue making em if even MS killed its own production for em.
     
  40. JoeRegular

    JoeRegular

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    Here's the link to contact the sales department : Contact Us

    And here's the message I sent them (everyone else feel free to inquire the same or slightly modify it):
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  41. ArthurT

    ArthurT

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    It's a shame that the licensing concerns have gotten to everyone so far that the area lights have been burried deep under, so deep that Unity didn't even get to release the full Adam demo footage on YouTube. Or release the project files and tools. Have those been planned at all or have been postponed for the reasons above?

    For one, I can sympathize on people not wanting to invest into anything until everyone is pleased with the new licensing plans, even if it might seem hard to do. The fact of the matter is right now Unity is at groundbreaking point for PC development, being on par with modern engines, but right now it also suffers from huge deal breakings is planning to go with Pro willingly or unwillingly.
     
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  42. elbows

    elbows

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    I started a thread about the area lights in the general graphics forum. It didn't get any responses last time I checked.

    I have been looking forward to Unite Europe for the tech, and I was very happy to get the area lights code today - I knew we would hear/see more about it but wasn't sure if we'd get any code.

    Anyway licensing plans and the response to them have nothing to do with when they release other videos or share code.

    In regards to tech such as the volumetric lights in the adam demo, I expected to hear more about it this week, but I did not necessarily expect to get the code (although it would obviously be great if even a few parts of the system could be shared straight away). In particular I always noted the language used on the Adam Demo page on unity website, which I believe was along the lines of 'expect to have these in your hands after Unite Europe'.

    Given that there is a talk on Thursday morning at Unite Europe about the making of the Adam Demo, I am anticipating at least some more info then. I am not there, so I am reliant on whatever gets said/published online.
     
  43. Undead

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    So, in a nutshell, perpetual licences as they are now are dead...
    So it's a choice of paying $125 a month for pro which over the usual 2 year life cycle of each major engine version = $3000 or a downgrade to unity personal.

    To be honest I'd rather have just payed them another $600 + tax for a 6.x perpetual licence for desktop / web instead of being forced to pay for a subscriptions which includes deployment formats I have no interest in o_O

    After almost 8 years with unity it's time to move on I think :(

    Downloading Unreal Engine
     
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  44. Wild-Factor

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    If you do video game, you know how powerful a skin is..
     
  45. Wild-Factor

    Wild-Factor

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    Between a Unity logo, followed by a unicorn, and a unity logo near a unicorn, there is not a big difference.
    That's why Unity logo = crapy quality. Even when unity logog is not near yours, it's still get the reputation of what follows after.
     
  46. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah of course, like all the other Unites, it will take a couple of days to sort out, as the staff are busy with Unite. I've been told they'll do all the yewtewbs and stuff.
     
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  47. landon912

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    I think there is so much frustration because UT has had no direction, communication, or serious development advancements for the last few years. These little things can awake the inner frustration with UT. Who now comes off as increasingly petty with each iteration of their licensing.

    Seriously, people may think this is just some fringe issue, yet it shows the immense internal issues going on within the last 5 years. Unity is slow to react to it's community and developing technologies(besides half useless platforms). Unity has made mistake after mistake this cycle and hasn't communicated about their status.

    Issues:
    • Slow as snails technical development
    • Enlighten Disaster
    • Flash, Tizen, Vita, Smart TVs, WiiU (Has a single project even been deployed to these platforms??)
    • Collaboration is a useless watered-down source control system.
    • Complete and utter blackbox to communicate with; only really active employees have came from the community before being hired. At our nearby friend, I can get a technical reply from a dev within two days, always.
    • Input isn't even close to being ready, after what? A decade of complaints.
    • High-Level multiplayer is in shambles
    • No Visual Shader Editor(A request for over a decade)
    • No Visual Script Editor(A request for over a decade)
    • No foliage system
    • No built-in open world support
    • The worst terrain editor I've ever used
    • No source code
    • Old particle system(still not GPU accelerated? Really?)
    • Mecanim is crap to interact with through code
    • No cinematic system
    • Awful built in navigation and AI
    • All around outdated graphics pipeline
    • *Add your own here*
    To bring it back onto topic, why should a small team choose to stay with Unity when they can go next door and have all this done for them, with no upfront cost or risk, and simply pay a portion of their most likely meager earnings? Unity here has petty fees for a dark skin and splash screen, really? That's basically a game development micro-transaction. Hmm, not surprising is it?

    UT should be giving reasons for the small band team to stay, not pissing half of them off. Oh well, for many this seems to be the final blow. This amazing community and documentation is what kept me here for so long. When I still worked in this industry, we used Unity at work for 4 years; I fought for months to keep the next project in Unity; seems I was the one that was wrong. Nobody wants to invest in a company that is sluggish and ignores it's customers.

    /rant
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  48. Paradoks

    Paradoks

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    Funny to see that @hippocoder is answering instead of unity team on that topic :D
    So lets ping because i would like an answer - @aliceingameland @SaraCecilia @Matthew Schell

    I am making a game using uNet, I am stuck on my developpement because since 3-4 month the webGL export is completely broken, i also need to use the lightmapper in my project, that is also totaly broken.

    Lets say now that i get the $125 subscription, what if because of Unity bugs i can't ship the game ?
    There are so many bugs in the actual version of unity, and i know you guys are working hard to fix them all, but will i have to pay for a tool that i still can't make money with ?

    Simple question.
     
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  49. kB11

    kB11

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    I agree it is fair for us to pay if Unity enables us to make over 100k in a year. I am simply still a bit confused about how the new licensing terms will work, exactly.

    So,
    • If I make a game that earns more than 100k and stop all development, I don't pay.
    • If I make a game that earns over 100k in year 1, don't develop anything in year 2, I can develop something in year 3 without paying (because I didn't make over 100k in the previous year (2)).
    • If I make over 100k in year 1, buy Pro in year 2 (for a year) and make less than 100k in year 2, I don't have to keep being subscribed to Pro in year 3, even if I keep developing using Unity.
    Did I get this right?

    (The last situation is the one that I expect to be the most likely of those 3, obviously.)
     
  50. pango

    pango

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    And what about a sort of custom splash screen for plus, having just unity logo plus our logo side by side, saying like, "hey look, our team is in partnership with unity, we're such a big company, wow, much fame"?
     
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