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New products and prices coming soon

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SaraCecilia, May 31, 2016.

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  1. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    I would think they are aiming to integrate cloud services so much into the system, that it wouldn't be "Unity" without it. Thats the direction I see, anyway.
     
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  2. tiggus

    tiggus

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    I'm not seeing that looking at what they have to offer. If you don't have a multiplayer game what use do you have for Unet services? If you don't do IAP or use a different analytics provider why do you need that piece? Cloud build - most don't have this need either.

    I think the problem is these are not enticing enough on their own so they are going with the bundle approach to try to subsidize them at the moment.
     
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  3. Teila

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    If they gave us storage space and version control on their cloud it would be nice. We just signed up for a service that will cost $20 a month for our team. Having something like that integrated could help defray the costs a bit. It is tough to find free storage when the sizes of your files get so large.
     
  4. tswalk

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    and then you are locked in to subscription forever to continue supplying updates for an app that may be dead or dieing... so why would you do that then? I don't see the point... you would then be better off getting the 'rent-to-own' version, probably paying 2x or 3x more over 3 years.. then what?.. you are stuck with a dead platform supporting a dead game.

    This whole issue has me really buggered.
     
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  5. Ippokratis

    Ippokratis

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    - 35$ per platform per month for upgrading
    - 75$ per platform per month for new subscribers
    - all platforms for 125$ per month
    - with respective tiers for services

    This is a more reasonable offering that respects existing Pro customers mentioned in the blog post...
    ... and gives them more choice regarding how to burn their cash ;)
     
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  6. moonjump

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    That sounds reasonable on the grounds for going subscription only, but not why Pro was set at a price point that was more expensive for all except mobile subscribers (seemingly a very small percentage of the paying users), and doesn't cover why Plus is so useless.

    There is a potential issue with pay-to-own not including fixes after the subscription period. It will end up with developers needing to start a new subscription period just to have a single OS breaking fix. If you allow single month subscriptions for anyone who has previously completed a pay-to-own term, it could work, but if you require a year minimum, I can see problems. I seem to remember some about single months under the outgoing system if they had previously subscribed for a year, although I am not certain on that.

    I am someone who was looking at switching engines, but held on as there were rumours of price changes. I haven't seen anything yet to change my mind, but the situation wouldn't have to be much different for me to stay. I haven't given Unity any money since iOS Indie (although I have given them value in terms of teaching Unity and giving talks on Unity to developer groups). For that to change I want something that offers me value for money. I proposed an option in post #1011 that is in reality not much different from the new situation. I think that would be good for Unity and it's customers, but there also other ways to achieve that.

    The new changes seem much better suited to Unity than the paying (and potentially paying) customers. That is not healthy for the future of the engine.
     
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  7. Teila

    Teila

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    It is pay to own. You own it after two years. So we only have to pay for two years, not forever. :) Read the new announcement.
     
  8. Ostwind

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    Note to everyone that UNET services are not free in any of the Unity editions as far as I understand it. You get few CCU for development/beta testing but running your game live costs in every edition.

    https://unity3d.com/services/multiplayer
     
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  9. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    Yes, indeed. Joachim's post really makes the whole thing more understandable.
    Thanks for the detailed clarification. And honestly the whole "release something when it's ready" is something that works for Unity. I also understand the problems with generating income to keep the company running.

    The only thing that needs to be addressed now is what happens with the people switching between Pro and Free in the future. Of even just between free and the other plans.

    Otherwise I will remain switching to free in my projects but feel much better with the reasoning.
    Hopefully the remaining things will be cleared up as well, soon. :)
     
  10. kburkhart84

    kburkhart84

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    I see the point about it being similar to Allegorithmic(I in fact DO subscribe to LIVE with them currently). But a big difference is that Allegorithmic still offers perpectual, the subscription with LIVE is pretty cheap, and the pay to own is a small percentage above the perpetual licensing. Unity on the other hand is no longer having perpetual, the subscription prices are out of sync, and the "tiers" they offer force things you don't want, and don't give what you are willing to pay for(at least going by above posted opinions.)
     
  11. Ostwind

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    If you stop subscribing then you lose new features and fixes after that point and depending on the used platforms it can be mandatory to keep subbing.
     
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  12. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Having everything under one roof would make it far easier for many Unity customers -- esp new ones who have never paid before -- to start right away with everything they need to make a modern game on all platforms. It would help grow the user base, as users who thinks "I want to make a MMORPG!" will find that Unity has 100% of the services they need to do exactly that.
     
  13. Ostwind

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    If you look at the services between all editions there is nothing that does that. Some could even say they are pretty generous offering a free tier on almost all services (or as a preview to hunger for more). But by default anything not asked for should not the paid for.
     
  14. the_motionblur

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    Which you don't have to use, though. You can set up or rent own servers if you feel like it.
    Multiplayer is actually a service that sounds very useful, though. Maintaining servers and matching players can be pretty cumbersome for small developers, I think.
     
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  15. Ostwind

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    Yeah was just trying to point out that even the listed services are not that great or mandatory and does not include multiplayer at all which many might think is included and they need it. Cloud build is nice but it's something you need and teams might already have setup similar previously with teamcity/jenkins etc. Analytics are also very optional and given analytic points are per project so not too limited. There is no word about Unity IAP (had advanced tier at one point forfraud check etc?), and for Collab + hosting?
     
  16. salgado18

    salgado18

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    If a game is dead or dying, why support it?
    Also, at that point, you would be developing another, right?

    I see this point a lot here, but a dead game doesn't need updates.

    On the other hand, a new game, without revenue, does.
     
  17. Ostwind

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    If you drop a support on game and the game is left in some way bad shape then it will bad rep for your other games. Can sometimes be seen at Steam review or forums sometimes when people "attack" there and rage for devs abandoning games.
     
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  18. Teila

    Teila

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    That is true with a perpetual license too. I would have to keep buying it. :) But..if I choose to freeze the game, it shouldn't be an issue. If we make money, we can resubscribe. If not, we won't be paying forever.
     
  19. Ostwind

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    With perpetual it's different as we have received critical fixes even after the official support has ended, I think 3.x received fixes long time after it's support ended and now 4.x that officially ended last year still received fixes last week. However with the new subscription I can't see this happening because people will have their subscriptions end at different times. This meas there will be people with almost every version out there and to backport hotfixes to all of em is an impossible task.

    This is how it works many of the other apps with subscriptions, as soon as you cancel you lose access to fixes too. The difference is that they usually allow monthly subscriptions so it's not a big problem. With Unity it's different as allowing monthly would allow people to cherry pick upgrades few times per year with greatly reduced income for UT. Plus edition probably had monthly sub available for greater cost cause it had no custom splash (monthly would allow cherry picking for splash, sub for month when releasing a version to have it without splash).
     
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  20. Teila

    Teila

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    Yeah, I see that.

    However, they all end sooner or later. At least it gives you an option.
     
  21. ShilohGames

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    The "Pay to own" option is vastly more expense than the previous perpetual licenses and major version upgrades, though. With perpetual licenses, Pro cost $1500 up front plus $750 for a major version upgrade (which used to be every 3-4 years). The new Pro subscription is $1500 per year. Even with the "Pay to own" option, this is still a massive price increase compared to the previous Pro perpetual licenses.
     
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  22. zenGarden

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    Still you can forget Lumberyard, it is not taking off, it is too complicated, too big Apis making more than 30Go install, it stays complicated today far from Unity easy learn and start making a game. They still don't have FBX animations and blendshapes import.

    I also prefer that.
    Still imagine when you own the Pro version, a new features is out let's say a really fast SVOGI lightening system or some new open world features and tools , or a new terrain system top notch, what will you do ?
     
  23. Teila

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    If our game is already out and has been for a while, I would just think about the next game we will make. :) Why would I replace the entire terrain or the lighting in an already released game that players are comfortable playing?

    My concern would be bug fixes and adding content, which we should be okay using the license we would already own. :) There comes a time when the game has to just freeze.

    There are always new games! Or Edition 2!
     
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  24. zenGarden

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    What if a Windows or DirectX update makes the 3D engine some update to continue working on Windows or a new Windows and DirectX versions ? I don't know if this hapened in the past ?
     
  25. Ippokratis

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    Then you should purchase the subscription, if you consider this as a valuable investment.
    Different suits for different people.
     
  26. ArthurT

    ArthurT

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    There's one tiny bit of info of which I'm still unsure about, does "Make it your own" really mean you can only customize but not remove the splash screen for Pro?
     
  27. BIG-BUG

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    According to the new blog post, it seems there won't be a Unity 6 release in the near future. This means the 3rd of March 2017 will be indeed a hard cut-off date for updates and fixes for current perpetual licence holders.
    Hopefully Unity does not leave us with a broken version then :oops:

    Unity's con against their customers comes together now...

    [EDIT] Didn't see that information that critical patches will be still provided after the cut-off date. Hopefully this includes fixing of broken features as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  28. mdrotar

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    Is this conflicting information? First we heard in this thread:

    But the blog post says:

    So if I have a 5.X perpetual license, and I don't start paying $125/mo starting March 2017, do I still get the fixes/patches going forward? If so, how is that going to work? Is Unity 5.X going branch on March 2017 for the perpetual Pro users so they get a feature freeze but can still get bug fixes?
     
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  29. darkhog

    darkhog

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    How about this: You make Unity fully free, splash and all and make us subscribe to services we want to use (no free Cloud Build, analytics, multiplayer, etc.). This way you'll get money for your work maintaining these and users would sub to services they need. This would seem less than extortion and more like *ahem* (drum rolls please) providing actual service to your users.
     
  30. Obsurveyor

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    We'll get critical patches, just like it says. If you want examples, look at the current 4.x updates that go out like the one last week. It's sounding like 5 is going to be their transition version away from those kinds of updates to subscription only. So at some point, the updates will stop for 5.x and then the only updates will come from the subscription.
     
  31. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    I have to admit though, the new splash screen in 5.4.0b20 is really bad. It's bright white and stays on a bright white screen while loading the game. A choice between a bright and dark Unity splashscreen would be nice. The fullbright white hurts the eyes of gamers sitting in dark rooms (which will be quite many depending on the kind of game. E.g. people tend to dim the lights before playing dark horror games).
     
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  32. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    So instead of Unity X and Unity X.x cycle we have now STABLE and BETA?
     
  33. mdrotar

    mdrotar

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    Do you know this or are you just saying this? At what point will updates stop for 5.X? Why not just call the version releasing in March 2017 Unity 6, and continue patching 5.X like they did with 4.6?
     
  34. Obsurveyor

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    It's all guessing of course, thus the lack of definitives. However, it's how I've seen products transition to subscription. Adobe went from yearly naming at the start of their subscription and then just embraced the CC name and stopped that. If they want a clean break from the "Unity [version]" they'll just call it "Unity" and that's it. It doesn't make sense to call out the version if they're not going to "release" versions anymore and it's just a constant stream from the subscription. As far as when updates will stop for 5.x? Keep an eye on when they stop for 4.x, that's about the best idea you'll get.
     
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  35. orb

    orb

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    No more major version chasing is good news. It feels like every major company tries to force out a major release with questionable upgrades every year, rather than using the old method: Name a product a major version if it feels substantially different.

    Now let's see what the Plus situation turns out like. Hopefully they can come up with a solution that makes it worth considering.
     
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  36. ShilohGames

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    Technically speaking, Unity would still need to use a version number with builds and updates. In March 2017, they can either continue using versions like 5.x or switch to 6.x. Their marketing can simply say "Unity" instead of "Unity 5", but there would still need to be some version tracking in place so they can communicate updates/fixes/improvements to game developers using Unity.
     
  37. orb

    orb

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    Unity 5 is just their X :)
     
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  38. landon912

    landon912

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    Then suddenly iOS changes their store rules. Well, now you have to subscribe again(a minimum of a year!) just to get that critical update. :(
     
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  39. Deleted User

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    That only makes sense if you have a support contract therefore increasing the cost, because you've got to remember six months / a year or two of that subscription will be needed to make the game in the first place. You'll probably have to support the game for at least a year or two after release date.. Especially if you want to do DLC's etc.

    You may come to release a DLC and someone reports a bug, if you don't have a support contract you may be waiting another three months before it gets fixed. It can turn out long and messy.!
     
  40. Teila

    Teila

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    We will use PE to make the game and won't buy unless we make the 100k limit. So most likely we won't ever need to buy pro. :) But..just in case...we can buy pro for two years for updates and added content. That will be after release of the game...probably well after, if ever.
     
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  41. zenGarden

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    I thinl it would be a great idea, pay for services you need only and pay for platforms only you need.
     
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  42. angrypenguin

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    I'm really, really happy that someone is finally responding to all this in a significant way! Also, the reasoning you're giving there is all great stuff to hear. It sucks that the major release model wasn't working for you and I'm really happy that you're moving to something you think will be better for everyone. That context alone already makes this whole thing feel a lot nicer.

    To put that in context, all of the emphasis before this new post was on the pricing, and didn't even hint at the non-financial side of any of this. So we all did some basic math and for many of us that painted a very different picture than the one Unity was trying to convince us of. It was... jarring.

    If you genuinely believe this can help you provide a better product and service then I think that's a great thing. Price bumps suck, but at least it's a part of a greater change that will helpfully mane things better all around. And, the Personal version is still there, and that rocks like crazy!

    My question about the cliffhanger still stands, though. Why leave the perpetual option as "tune in next month to find out more"? You had to know that removing perpetual licenses would have a negative impact, why not deal with it right there and then? And why wasn't all of that non-financial stuff included in the initial announcement? If you'd started with that stuff - "We'd like to let everyone know in advance that Unity will be moving to a subscription-only model with new pricing. Here's why we're doing it..." - and then explained the new pricing then it would have had a nice lead in and put us in mind of how it'll make things better rather than leading us straight to the math of the matter and, for many of us, "hang on, this is way more expensive!"

    Does this mean that Unity isn't planning to ever release a "Unity 6", or that Unity 6 will just be some milestone point on the current Unity roadmap? I dearly hope it is the latter, because there's already wires crossed with purchasers of Unity 5 Pro perpetual licenses (you've seen plenty of people here talk about how they were promised access to the whole 5.x branch).

    And, to be honest, I'd have thought that you'd align a major business model change - that's what this is - with your next major release anyway, even if the license change is the main difference for that release. If nothing else it would probably be a far more acceptable transition for customers.
     
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  43. Ryiah

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    At first this was the path I thought they were planning to go, but I'm just not convinced that it would work now. Solutions like Ads, Analytics, and Multiplayer might be good if you're targeting many of the platforms Unity supports but individually those platforms already have solutions for each one in place and they're often completely free.

    How many people are going to target many platforms with each game they release?
     
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  44. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    I also have a question about the pay-to-own as it has been described. If I subscribe for two years, then stop for a while, and then re-subscribe, what are the terms? If I just need a Unity update to do some maintenance on a project do I need to commit to a whole year again, or can I just get a month?

    Edit: I mean, those details are really important. Without updates to keep it current and compatible Unity's utility for certain platforms plummets rapidly. It's all well and good to say "you can keep the latest version if you stop after 2 years", but that's not realistically an option on some platforms unless you also quit game development.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
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  45. the_motionblur

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    Unity said this. They said themselves - after 5 ends critical patches will still be issued just like there was a fix/patch for 4.7 just recently (2 weeks?). I don't know where it was posted but it was said officially.

    Regarding the pay to own option: If I commit to the pay to own plan. After the time period - will critical patches still be available (like with 4.x/5.x now)?

    And another thing I was wondering: Woudn't it just be possible to offer a "pay once for owning the software (lower price than monthly, maybe?) and recieve updates for (x) months.". There are people who just don't want to pay each month. Or maybe get a discount for paying upfront (which you have to do with Pro with a mandatory 12 month commitment anyways).
     
  46. tswalk

    tswalk

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    he clearly says "no" in the blog post.
     
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  47. tswalk

    tswalk

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    Indeed, I figured they had 2 years to deliver on the promises and promotions made of 5.x before 6.x came about.. and now a change mid-stream is really a kick in my balls.
     
  48. spraycanmansam

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    I generally keep quiet about these types of things and see how they play out, but there's a few things that bugged me with the authors reply to a comment in the blog:
    I don't like it when people speak for a group. I don't find the $125 month an "easy" decision. As good an engine as Unity can be, I find it a particularly hard pill to swallow with the current state of Unity. A substantial price hike only adds salt to the wound at this point.

    I completely understand and appreciate the reasoning behind the new pricing and development model, but Unity has begun to feel like 'Early Access' Unity with bugs and all, which is not what you want from a professional grade tool that your business relies on. This is the reason we've been watching Unreal with genuine interest but hadn't considered it for our projects. Early on it was changing and being updated so drastically that it needed some time to stabilise into a reliable business tool. It's almost there. If Unity starts to go down a similar path with a "here's what we have now that works" model, then there's not much separating them and Unreal is far more impressive out of the box. Unfortunately with changes like these it seems Unity is making it an easier decision for users to switch to engine 'x', or consider switching - not exactly what Unity wants.

    If the genuine intent is that developers pay for the licence based on revenue, then in reality everyone should have access to the fully featured Pro version (dark skin, no splash and all) and only pay if and when they exceed the revenue caps. Don't mess around with useless carrots Unity.
     
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  49. RD

    RD

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    Supply chain partners are VERY likely to hurt each other badly when they make 'service interrupting strategy designs'.

    Maintenance updates ending abruptly when the Unity subscriptions are terminated will damage Unity shareholder value and Unity brand image. Unity apps will quickly stop working when app maintenance updates cannot be done because Unity maintenance updates cannot be done because Unity subscription has ended... What is the inevitable result as again and again and again END consumers see so many Unity apps are broken, quickly break, or are supported for only a short time?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
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  50. karl_jones

    karl_jones

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    In 5.4 release free users will be able to choose light or dark splashscreen and the personal edition text will be gone. Plus will get a semi customizable splash screen, we hope to provide more details on this in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
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