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New products and prices coming soon

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SaraCecilia, May 31, 2016.

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  1. ippdev

    ippdev

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    Cut the fat. Too many cooks have spoiled the broth. I see the Microsoft corporate code style creeping in. Some of the code crew are not game developers and are shoving their corporate coding paradigm down our collective throats. Can them and stick to the core of people that know what they are doing.
     
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  2. Pecek

    Pecek

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    To be fair some of us(actually a lot of us) suggested a small subscription\one time fee for the dark skin, I would be happy to pay for that($35 a month is a bit pricey for it tho, too bad UT don't let us choose what we want to buy - and as most of you, I wouldn't use the other features either), but the splash screen is really disappointing(I personally don't mind, but I get why people are upset about it).

    Overall I'm fine with the Plus plan, but as a solo, desktop only developer I would happily exchange about 80% of the extra features for a smaller price and the removal of the splash.Then again, I never had a perpetual license, only a subscription when the free didn't had every engine features, I probably would be raging as well if I already had a perpetual license.

    ..also am I the only one who won't switch to UE4 because of this? Reading through the comments definitely seems so.
     
  3. orb

    orb

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    Nope. But it's going to cause a lot more people to not go beyond Personal, judging from the posts so far.
     
  4. salgado18

    salgado18

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    I think you would benefit a lot from a Plus license without the splash, right?
     
  5. Der_Kevin

    Der_Kevin

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    This isnt a offending question:
    But for what do you all need the pro version? Are you all making 100.000$ with your game?
    Or is it the splash screen?

    I realy like the plus idea. Depends how the custom splash screen will lool like i will maybe spent the some $ a month but not before i did a releaseable game where people are actually see the mwu screen

    but the best news is: free stays free and all that matters to me since iam not using any of the unity services and have no problem with the splashscreen even if i think it could be more integrated into the game you are making. And iam sooo F***ing far away from making 100.000$
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  6. Obsurveyor

    Obsurveyor

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    I think the uproar of the splash screen is kind of obscuring something important: A lot of us bought Unity perpetual before Unity 5 when you had to, to unlock everything Unity had to offer besides a splash screen. Subscriptions are a poor value when you don't own anything at the end so I went on to Unity 5 perpetual to avoid that and continue supporting Unity. Based on this thread, I think a lot of people are like me.
     
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  7. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    The real problem that gets people with pitchforks going is the fact these things are sprung on them with no warning, and then no explanation. If that doesn't piss a normal rational person off who's invested in things, I'm not sure what would.
     
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  8. salgado18

    salgado18

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    The splash.

    In a near future I'll need all the power of Cloud Build I can get, but that's not a priority.

    HOWEVER, I'm alone and not making a game, so Unity Analytics, Multiplayer and Team License are of no use to me now. This is my current situation, but if I was doing a game, all of those would be very tempting indeed.
     
  9. Obsurveyor

    Obsurveyor

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    I'm not pissed off yet because we don't know what they're offering to existing customers yet, I'd say that's pretty rational. I'll be more disheartened than pissed if those are crap though.
     
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  10. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    That'san illusion, two years after, the next Unity version is out, and you will need it because of new top notch features , new improvments and all bugs corrections :rolleyes:

    So you don't earn any money on these two projects ?

    Their marketing strategy adapted to UE4 announcement, the new offering will suit some people i think that develop games on all mobile platforms, and you got the Pro version after two years subscription. There is some choice.
    For other people the new Pro price subscription is perhaps not as good as before.It will be to Unity to decide of the price change later or not depending on how it sells i think.

    lol
    I really like their dark theme, icons and interface, really, i find it lot more clear than Unity menus and white theme of the personnal edition.
     
  11. Der_Kevin

    Der_Kevin

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    Unity light theme looks like S***, true.
    But whoever did the icons for ue4 should get fired. Also the margins for the menu points. Everything is just so... Off!
    But yeah. Personal taste i guess :D
     
  12. Teila

    Teila

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    Mine isn't white! It is a nice gray. I like it so much better than Pro's dark skin. I tried the trial once back when free was very limited, and it bothered me. I guess we all have different preferences. I do think that it is rather silly to keep a skin behind a firewall, but I guess that is all they have anymore.
     
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  13. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    We're all used to working around bugs in Unity. It's a fact of life with an engine. Moving to newer releases may fix some but there are always more introduced in the process. At least with older releases people have known ways to work around them. With the latest ones that won't always be the case.

    Improvements and top notch features can be nice at times but other times they feel like a step backwards. Just look at the problems people are having with Enlighten as a good example. Or SpeedTree. At least with Mecanim they didn't foolishly rip out the previous solution before verifying it actually worked well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  14. ForceVFX

    ForceVFX

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    As not to incur such reactions in the future, I have one suggestion: Focus Groups, under nda.
    P-
     
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  15. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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    Hey! I'm a bit confused and haven't found a solid answer. It looks like, according to the roadmap (http://unity3d.com/migration-roadmap), that as someone who paid the $$ up front for Unity 5 + the add-ons, I'm going to have to start paying a subscription fee?

    Is that true? Like -- if it is, who do I complain to??? :D
     
  16. thylaxene

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    Makes you wonder how they got it so wrong? Or are we the whining minority posting here? ;-)
     
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  17. BIG-BUG

    BIG-BUG

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  18. JohnSmith1915

    JohnSmith1915

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    The sad part is that this move want more money from Pro users but is very possible that many pro users dont pay the new prices and downgrade to Personal license or migrate to other engine, at end Unity lost.
     
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  19. DocLogic

    DocLogic

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    I'm one of these people. Was paying for two pro licenses. Once I saw this announcement, it made me realize that I had no idea why I was using pro, and will definitely be downgrading. The biggest bummer is the splash screen, but I'm already over that.
     
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  20. Kiwasi

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    As yet there is no solid answer. But the general tone seems to be that new perpetual licenses will be removed in favor of subscriptions. Existing perpetual licenses get to run out through Unity 5.
     
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  21. Lockethane

    Lockethane

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    As a programmer in a small development team that does simulations, splash screens are probably the most important difference from free. I know Unity is trying to value add for the tiers, but as a primarily desktop developer things like the courseware and services shouldn't feel like there are being forced on users when we need the splash screen. Also maybe change the name of performance profiling, it can cause confusion with the performance profiler.
     
  22. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    Hippo, you are much bringing the people's minds to a precise point with many of your posts, here. :)


    Also the rent-to-own details are sort of weird as well (pieced together from here).
    I have to subscribe to Pro to own it eventually. Other plans cannot be owned any more. Also I have to commit and cannot cancel. So ... payment by installments for the full Pro version only, basically?
    I don't like that so much, honestly. :-/

    (Also the new prices are apparently in effect now but the store page doesn't even reflect it yet.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  23. tiggus

    tiggus

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    In the announcement post that was linked:
     
  24. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Everybody was making math to look at how it impact their budget. I was wondering what the math tells us about unity itself?

    First it's notable to look at how the market evolve around unity. There is 3 phases:

    1. at the beginning the hobby market was small and the indie revolution was only beginning and mobile where appearing. All their tier offering where all paid (400$ min). To do video games you either need a publisher or have aggressive deal with an aggregator. Unity doing 3D games didn't quite fit that market, it was mostly PC gaming that support those games.

    2. indie and mobile took off, but the market hasn't yet the big success and company. Big news happen into social, unity is not really fit for that market, but now you can export to mobile. They go free with the lowest tier.

    3. the mobile market has boomed and indie have proven themselves, many millionaire have emerged from these markets and things start to consolidate with steam greenlight, AAA talent flight to indie and big company dominating mobile. Unity make all features free and start services to help in a crowd market. Big company like ubi soft and blizzard start using unity too.

    Now let assume that unity have a cost of 8000$ per employee (arbitrary number) and have 900 employee. Their burn rate is 7 200 000$ month, I don't think it's accurate but it gives some heuristics. They need under that heuristics:
    1. 57 600 subscribers at 125$ month to break even
    2. 205 714 subscribers at 35$
    3. 96 000 at 75$

    They boast millions of users, 1. represent roughly 0.6% needed of that base while 2. would be 20%, it's a whale type of business plan, it's F2p text books.

    It's obvious why their pricing make sense relative to the market, they can live from fewer users relatively for just a small increase in price and have a stable income flow. The fact there is more big company using unity make it viable as the price is cheap relative to their size, the price would have almost no impact given their ROI.

    The PLUS tier make sense because it would help increase and incubate potential higher tiers, because, though they need less of them, it lead to substantial profit margin when they are more of them. It make sense again since they would have, through the services, frequent relation with these type of business partner and wannabe.

    The latter point is maybe what pushed mid tiers and desktop into a blind spot, they don't have frequent relation by nature (no use for analytics and services), hence why they ended up screwed.
     
  25. tiggus

    tiggus

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    Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone address this concern and I think it is a big one unless I am missing something. Is it true you cannot patch/modify a project that was made in Pro with Personal? If so like Juntaou is saying you are stuck with this high monthly payment just to provide support for your old titles that are probably not making money anymore. What is the answer to this?

    I support some iOS titles that I made currently with 4.x Pro, with this subscription only model I would be out of luck unless I subscribe for a year at a time? Doesn't seem right.
     
  26. tswalk

    tswalk

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    you close your doors, and start a new business... game over man.
     
  27. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    My understanding is that your 5.x and older perpetual licenses will still be valid. Anything beyond March, 2017 is what you'll need a subscription for. If you never migrate those games to a newer release of Unity you should be just fine.
     
  28. Master-Frog

    Master-Frog

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    So, the money you have paid already is good for the rest of the Unity 5.x development cycle, but when they switch to Unity 6.x they're gonna want more money... and it's really not more complicated than that.

    In case anyone feels like getting a little miffed about it, consider that GameMaker did the same thing to those of us who purchased the license for $20 bucks or so when it switched over to GameMaker: Studio, then they started wanting lot and lots of money.

    Keep in your little head the idea that these products are valuable, even if you're not using them to make good money, that doesn't mean that is the case for everyone out there.

    Lastly, you guys have really helped out UT by supporting them and their product and together, you are helping them make a highly competitive product that is only getting better. The upside is also the downside, as in a double-edged sword... the better the product gets, the more in-demand it becomes, the more pricey it will get.

    Just make more money with Unity 5 so you can afford 6 when it comes out all you pro devs. ;)

    Edit: I think Unity 5 is F***ing amazing, personally. I can't afford the price tag right now, but I do believe it is worth paying money for if you're in the business of making games. It's just the cost of doing business.
     
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  29. giorgos_gs

    giorgos_gs

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    I have also bought 5x with ios and android and now I am wondering if Unity removes splash screen from plus will I be able to continue my Pro projects using the new Plus licenses? Because I have read in the past that projects that are made with Pro cannot be updated with free? Does this rule goes to Plus too? I hope not.
     
  30. gurayg

    gurayg

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    Yes, but I bought license for all 5.X. Something was promised to me.
    It is like you paid in advance for a starter, main course and a dessert and they ask you to pay again for the dessert.
    Unity should have balanced between new services/platforms and finish what they promised for 5.X
    They choose to add more services/platforms. Fine.
    But cutting what was promised to me and asking me to pay again is not fine.
    Why don't they wait until end of 5.X for the subscription only model?
    Why don't they ask for small pro sub price and let everyone choose their service/platform on top of that.
    All platform/services can again be 125$/m in total but this time no forcing anyone into buying what they don't need.
    edit:Grammer
     
  31. knr_

    knr_

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    Good rundown. The only thing I see missing is the paid support in addition to the subscriptions.
     
  32. gurayg

    gurayg

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    I hope this is right. Because Unity faq does not mention all 5.X cycle but gives a date. Looking how fast Unity as a company is, I can say it is hard for them to deliver everything they've promised. I'd be happy to proven otherwise though.

    From Unity FAQ http://unity3d.com/unity/faq/4520/
     
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  33. MrEsquire

    MrEsquire

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  34. infinitypbr

    infinitypbr

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  35. Player7

    Player7

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    Is nothing wrong with unity editor gui style.. light/dark -its consistent and tight (though after a while of using it minimal start looking more like lame in lack of functionality for certain areas)... its just missing a S*** tons of features and options that should be built in. In comparison UE has some slick design, mixed with poor areas.. like oversized toolbar icons, that you can actually make smaller but then its like ugly small. So it's both rough in some areas and slick (dev console, blueprints, material editor, cinematics etc areas are designed well)... the fact it actually has a ton of options for things makes me happy, it should have popout menus like maya, wouldn't be surprised if that happens.. the pace of development and community contributions helps.. things like an asset store can kinda kill that or in the case of Unity become so reliant on it they don't have to.

    Even that screenshot shows UE4 plugins being actually categorized by type with option to directly enable/disable.. the same in Unity for imported assets, involves faffing around moving entire plugin folders outside of the Asset folder or back in.. its been a mess for too long, because there isn't even any damn way to disable a folder/script directly in the project interface.. I mean in the last ~8months of using unity I have started to see how things are here and where its going, it looks like the writing is on the wall.. Far too many areas of the editor been left upto the community to improve. Too much stuff that needs sorting out and development progress on that front is disapointing..
     
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  36. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    You forget one point, the Asset Store, this is a big revenue market for Unity.
    If it wasn't a really bgi market Unity would have already made a new terrain system, a shader editor, a Probuilder like tool, advanced shaders and vertex painter for example.
    Anyway for a majority of people Personnal edition with Asset Store is still a way to go if splash screen doesn't bother you.

    I aslo find the editor outdated in many areas, it is lot of years since it never upgraded.
    Anyway you can still make games, but some re organisation and new icons, or less menus would be good.
    If you look at UE4 terrain panels you will see how easy it is to find what you need and navigate.
     
  37. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    You get what you paid for. A perpetual ProLicense of Unity5 throughout the complete development cycle (until March 2017). After that still a few years critical patches for fixing crucial bugs. What is taken fom you, there?

    For the subscription: Pay 3 years (or 2 years if you're already pro owner) and the software is yours to develop on even if you don't pay any further. So currently a maximum of 4500$/license.

    Probably you won't get patches after that, though.
    Don't know if it means that you have to commit to another 12 months after that, either.


    The whole thing is kinda confusing the way it's created. And even nearly a week later it still bugs me.

    I restate that I think Allegorithmic are doing it super right:
    1. Each major version costs money - a very, VERY reasonable amount (especially seeing how good their quality and patch/feature cycle is).
    2. You can buy perpetual at once or subscribe.
    3. If you are an indie (easy terms < 100.000$ turnover / year) the cheaper version is enough. Otherwise you have to buy the significantly more expensive one because you actually do have money.
    4. If you want to rent/lease any of the software you can do so on a monthly basis.
    5. If you have reached a slightly higher price with the subsription than by immediate licensing it's yours to keep up until next major release (roughy 1.5 - 2 year cycle currently).

    6. Bonus: Subscriptions for the Database of Substance libraries can also be leased as an indie (until owned) or bought commercially.


    Unity certainly know that system very well and I think they might not even have any problem adapting to it if it wasn't for the Unreal Engine as the main competitor which is available for free. So my assumption would be that this is why Unity need to keep up in some way while still maintaining their now global business and employees, services and such.

    Then there was the last outcry when Unity wanted to increase prices on their software. Don't know how many of you remember but Unity backpedaled which again resulted in certainly a lot less income than hoped for.

    I assume this is their try to change pricing to make it more accessible and fair across the board. Cheaper/free for the small ones, affordable for the enthusiasts and semi-pros and high priced with an option to keep for the high income people.
    As this thread shows this also seems to regroup the Userbase quite a bit. At least judging by the replys in this thread. For me for example: I was a Pro user who was happy with his PC Pro perpetual license even though I didn't really need Pro. From March 2017 on I will be a free user because I surely don't want to commit to a 2 year payment plan. I don't need the services, either. None of the lower tiers gives me anything I actually need or want. None of the lower tiers gives me a perpetual license, either. Any why should it? Most of it is services - the engine itself is free perpetually if I don't have a 100k turnover per year.
    And yet still it feels wrong.


    Bonus conspiracy/tinfoil-hat stuff for all the Pro-Unreal peeps ;)
    How many of you guys/gals knew that Unreal isn't as independent as most probably think. Nearly half of Epic Games and thus the Unreal engine is owned by Chinese company Tencent Holdings Limited (48.4% to be precise)? One of two companies which might be running China's new "credit score system" (depending on how accurate the sources of the article are).
    Unity is still c̶o̶m̶p̶l̶e̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ relatively independent and I hope it stays that way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  38. Ippokratis

    Ippokratis

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  39. MS80

    MS80

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    Really bad news! With the new prices competition is over for Unity.
    There are better options out there, it's time to slowly migrate to another engine, or stick with 5.x :(

    In my situation the new pricing model is insane, from 750$ per Update (perpetual 2 year cycle) to 1500$ per year = 400% ?!? For a crappy subscription? Are they crazy?? I do not need any of the new services, developing for desktop and spending lot of bucks at the asset store.

    It seems Unity choose the autodesk way of making money!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  40. gurayg

    gurayg

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    Naming missing features and getting into "if Unity is stable?" will most likely take this out of topic. Please excuse me while I try to explain without getting into those.

    I can't clearly predict, if Unity will be able to finish the V5 dev cycle by that time but I hope they do.
    What I've written was based on Unity's current speed and their published roadmap.
    I can understand if they can not deliver %100 of their roadmap but what will be cut out (if they have to) is important.

    I'd be much happier if I could see:
    "perpetual licences will get all Unity versions until V6" in the FAQ
    instead there is that date.
     
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  41. Ippokratis

    Ippokratis

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    It's complicated.
    For people like me, Pro is too expensive and Plus doesn't cut it.
    For Unity ( I guess that ) giving more features to Plus would tempt companies to prefer it over Pro, subsiding profit substantially.

    @the_motionblur don't take me wrong, I just highlight the fact that Unity, like every other decent Game Engine out there has its investors that have a word in the Board, which is perfectly reasonable. I type wearing my tinfoil-hat all the time :)
     
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  42. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    We know it from long time, it was event said on official UE4 prensentation, you are very late.
    Tencent is backing up Epic, so Epic can stay afloat about money, they won't encounter money problems and can safely continue expanding UE4.
    Unlike Unity that must take car of how they spend their money income because there is no company behind to help if a difficult situation would appear.

    Buying a Pro license is good as major Unity version last at least 3 years and more.
    If you are a starting indie small company, paying 1500$ for five people for example to get rid of Unity "personnal edition" logo is not possible. While UE4 allows you to start with 0$ to pay and you have only one UE4 Logo, only the pro logo exist.
    You forget all money you'll have to invest in the Asset Store with the Personnal edition and Pro version as Unity lacks too much features unlike UE4 that has already all tools and features and continue bringing new ones each release.

    There is no perfect solution for all people, each of us has different needs and money goals, Unity new pricing will suit some people and not suit some others and won't impact people happy with Personnal edition.

    What matters is Unity to stay on track and keep Pro users satisfied with the new system or change the pricing if this would not suit the majority of Pro users.
     
  43. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    @Ippokratis don't worry. Tencent as a really major shareholder really is somewhat concerning for me. My statement was deliberately tinfoily, though. I know companies have shareholders but it's the mix and amount that makes or breaks it for me.
    Also some people may not realize how much bigger than just a company making a software to fool around with this whole system really is.
    I do admit that I didn't know or bother to research who Unity's shareholders were, though.

    The date is there because this is when the Unity5 Dev cycle will end. The things on the Roadmap have always been subject to change and potentially being cut out. If you didn't know that: sorry to tell you but that could happen even without the price changes. Those have nothing to do with features and current version numbers, yet.
    Stability falls into the "will be supported for crucial bugfixes beyond that date" category. Which Unity stated they will provide even long after the 5.x cycle has officially ended. May 2017 is "just" feature cutoff date.
     
  44. Master-Frog

    Master-Frog

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    Unity personal has all of the features... unless you are running a business with an office and employees, the only reason you're going to pay for Unity is a color scheme and removing a rather cool-looking splash screen. Honestly, it's all so trivial.
     
  45. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    With all the stuff that is currently on the roadmap or broken/beta in the engine I can't see even half of em being done by the listed Unity 5 "expiry date" with the pace they have done things. I guess mono upgrade or new gc for example are new stuff and probably only in Unity 6...

    What currently worries me even more aside from the price hike is the fact how almost everyone (including me) hates the changes and makes people move away from Unity. Even if I could somehow justify myself to continue with Unity for a few more years with the new costs I'm not sure how UT as a company is doing after loss of many customers. Will they start cutting off features and make the development be even more slow than it currently is so I will get even less for my investment? or even worse they will be bought by someone making even more drastic changes to pricing and other stuff or chopping the company to pieces (services, etc.).

    Dumbest thing was to announce the price changes without having all the details available or a backup plan. The FAQ was almost empty for a couple of days and some of the answers there are still vague. Perpetual license owners have no idea what it is going to cost or if there is any discounts so we have to assume it's the announced price with 200-500% cost increase. Also it seems Plus edition was cobbled together without any marketing research since no one seems to understand who would get it? and the "possible" semi-customizable splash screen for it sounds like rushed rescue idea to calm down the angry mob.

    Every single day there is no info available for existing customers it does more damage to Unity. People seek out for other solutions and try out other engines which they might never checked out before without this mess. Most likely some or many of them will now change to other engines even if the prices would remain the same as before or there would be discounts cause they might notice the other stuff suits better for them price- or workflow-wise.

    Like it was said in the official blog post comments, "Right now you guys are the best sales team Epic ever had."
     
  46. Obsurveyor

    Obsurveyor

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Posts:
    276
    They promised the .NET upgrade for 5 a long time ago, even before it was released.
     
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  47. gurayg

    gurayg

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Posts:
    226
    Looks like nothing other then that date is known for certain then.
    It is highly unlikely to happen but is it OK if Unity decides that they'll focus on more services and platforms and that's all for 5 series but just fixes. Just because it is not "set to stone" roadmap.

    All parts take some risk in these situations.
    I took one when I paid by looking at a public roadmap that might not be there %100 but given UT being a big and strong company, I trusted and hoped most of the that list would be there.

    Unity skipped a version which made me think/criticize their strategy (resources being focused in other areas)
    or maybe I'm a minority in this Democracy and should do something else after that set date.
    That I don't know yet.
     
  48. Ostwind

    Ostwind

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Posts:
    2,784
    Have they officially promised it anywhere or will it be just like UI system, nested prefabs, etc.? :p

    If you checked the Unite roadmap session they will upgrade compiler in 5.5 which probably means end of the year. Then after compiler comes runtime, profiler and gc... wonder how fast things will happen

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/yes-unity-5-5-new-compiler-and-gc.408313/
     
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  49. chingwa

    chingwa

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Posts:
    3,389
    Yes they are crazy. With these price changes they are either scaring away paid customers to other engines, or they are converting paying customers into non-paying customers.

    I was happily a pro perpetual customer even though I really didn't need anything that Pro had to offer since the Unity 5 reorganization. I wanted to support Unity, and the upgrade pricing was always reasonable to my mind. But there's no way I'm going to pay +500% for the same features. It's insanity.

    I would be tempted to move into the plus tier IF it had the same features as the current pro version (meaning getting rid of the splash screen... are you listening Unity?). But in the current form I would be paying more money for fewer features. That's not going to happen. So personal edition here I come.

    At this point I'm just repeating myself. Just because of frustration. Tomorrow is Monday, do we want to lay down bets that we'll get any answers to any of our questions? I'm skeptical that we will... which is more insanity on top of the existing insanity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  50. moonjump

    moonjump

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Posts:
    2,316
    The opposite is usually true in the digital domain. More customers means a smaller part of the income of each sale is required to cover operating costs. Prices can then be reduced to entice even more people in.

    Costs do rise with more sales in the physical world, but not at the same rate, and things are cheaper to make in volume.

    Popular products only get more pricy when demand can outstrips supply, which isn't possible for a digital product unless artificial limits are in place, which is not the case for Unity.
     
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