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New products and prices coming soon

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by SaraCecilia, May 31, 2016.

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  1. knr_

    knr_

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    I don't think everyone agrees with your interpretation of the numbers, that's why.

    That isn't to say you are wrong, because you aren't (for yourself anyways), you have to look at the numbers the way they make the most sense to you as does everyone else.
     
  2. darkhog

    darkhog

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    @ugur, dude... get a blog.

    Seriously though, free to play... is not what Unity does. Though I agree that Plus tier is BS. Obviously something weren't working out with their model since they've changed it, but those changes are stupid to say the least. Why do I have to pay extra for platforms I don't intend to use? IMO tiered subscription model for Pro would work better.

    T1 $75 (same as it was before) You get features, but can only publish to desktop.
    T2 $75 like above, but you can export only to Android
    T3 $75 Only iOS export possible
    T4 $125 (current price) Android+iOS
    T5 $125 Desktop+Android
    T6 $125 Desktop+iOS
    T7 $160 All platforms

    Also I'd suggest raising revcap on Plus just a bit to like $125k so it has more value to developers and allow for slight modification of the splashscreen (not turning it off or complete replacement). Made With Unity would still be there, but unlike personal you also get to place your company's (or game's) logo in designated spot on the splash screen if you so desire.

    //edit: Obviously prices of tiers I am proposing are per month. Well, duh but thought it needed to be explained in case of some misunderstanding.
     
  3. darkhog

    darkhog

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    It's Helgasson. Also Riccitiello is former EA CEO (right around time when such "hits" as Dungeon Keeper Mobile and Simcity 2013 were released) so big fat DUH. Seriously called something like this would happen the day he was announced as the new CEO.
     
  4. SaraCecilia

    SaraCecilia

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    I've sent the question to the AS team and waiting for more information from them. Will know more then.
     
  5. thylaxene

    thylaxene

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    As I said before. As a professional freelancer who makes nearly 100% income from Unity work I'll probably end up paying the $125 a month or if the pay to own isn't ridiculous I go with that.

    However...

    Until they prove to me that U6 is back on track I will stick with U4/U5 dependent on client and give them no money. Sorry, for ArchViz I'm going to use UE4, U5 failed horribly on that front.

    Also if you pay anything for Unity... the splash screen GOES. Your think-tank needs to work out how to make that happen.

    Finally, should just offer two themes, light and dark, free.
     
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  6. SaraCecilia

    SaraCecilia

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    Thanks for your feedback and suggestions, this is also what I've gathered from reading through the posts. This thread was started which is asking what the target group is for Plus, as the reactions so far seem to be that users are not sure what they actually get out of Plus, but also it seems expectations for a mid-tier option is different from what we're offering. Discussions will continue internally, so this can become more clear for everyone in the community (discussions being around the target group, value for the price, and so forth.)
     
  7. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You know I have to wonder if anyone, especially those posting, actually read those humongous walls of text? :p
     
  8. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Hell to that, I have games to make.
     
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  9. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    "Ain't nobody got time for that"
     
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  10. GhulamJewel

    GhulamJewel

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    If you pay anything for unity I just hope the splash screen goes. Better to put that in games credits than on start up where you could place your own art that matches your game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
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  11. spraycanmansam

    spraycanmansam

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    I couldn't have said it better.
     
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  12. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    I'm too busy writing my own posts. ;)

    I do read long posts of the are well formatted, well reasoned, and engaging. But the OP has none of that.

    If someone can't use proper grammar, syntax and white space I immediately dismiss their post as worthless. After all, this is a forum for game devs.
     
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  13. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I read quickly, it is a weekend and I can't sleep again.

    But I usually need blank lines between paragraphs. Between ALL pairs of paragraphs.
    Otherwise I'll just get bored and scan through it instead of reading details.
     
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  14. tswalk

    tswalk

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    nopes
     
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  15. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    It definitely doesn't help when the chart lists things like the number of CCUs for the Multiplayer service but the actual page for the it mentions that you pay per gigabyte. I'm assuming that's what the little question mark icons are supposed to be for but you can't exactly click on them right now.
     
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  16. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    I'm with you on that. If someone can't be bothered to format their paragraphs I can't be bothered to read them.
     
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  17. quantumsheep

    quantumsheep

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    Well, I'm not paying for the engine because Unity gave free users all the features that were previously in Pro!
    You say I'm actually paying for the engine, that I *should* be paying for the engine, but the engine has been given away for free.

    I can release a game with the free edition just fine.
    I can release a game with the pro edition just fine.

    I use the engine in both versions, but only pay for one.

    The only actual differences between the two releases would be the pro edition version would have no splash.

    So yeah, I'm just paying for the splash screen removal is the way I see it.

    The price of Unity is $0 right now if you go for the personal edition, because I can release a game with Unity for free :)

    But there are always car analogies, eh? ;)

    My analogy would be:

    Unity has given me a free car. Hurrah! Fully functional. Takes me from a to b. I'm very happy with it! Vroom vroom!

    But it has a Unity licence plate.

    I would like my own licence plate.

    Unity offers to sell me a custom licence plate if I go pro, but that model car has a tape deck and furry seats and a child seat.

    I'm only interested in the licence plate, and the rest is useless to me. So the cost comes down to that of just upgrading that one component I want.

    (though I quite like the idea of furry seats. And the tape deck is very retro! But I digest...)

    I actually agree with you in most part here. They made the pro features of the engine 'free'. They devalued the main product. So yes, the splash is the only thing of value left (to a lot of people!).
    I didn't do that. Unity did. It's all well and good saying I'm paying for the engine, but as I said further up, I can still release a game without paying for the engine with the free version.

    I can still drive my car.

    I'd just like to change the licence plate!

    QS =D

    P.S. - On a side note, and most sincerely, you're doing a grand job here hippo - thanks :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
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  18. G-Mika

    G-Mika

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    If I wan't Unity only to build on desktop platforms, it will cost me about 2X the price (3000$+ instead of 1500$) for a 2+ years cycle.

    This is a huge price increase for us and I can understand why some people are not happy.
     
  19. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    But you now got royalties for all games or apps you will make using UE4.

    The personnal version should allow your logo company with a botom "made with Unity" plus a small Unity logo.
    I really enjoy UE4 black theme interface, That's sad how Unity looks outdated because it even don't have a customisable theme like many today software :rolleyes:
     
  20. VicToMeyeZR

    VicToMeyeZR

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    Its not about being cheap. You realize its actually cheaper if you had been buying IOS and Android? So the only people being "cheap", is those who have all those addons... The rest of are trying to not be ripped off for being forced to buy the racing transmission and rear end on our family van.
     
  21. the_motionblur

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    I wonder what people would say if Unity went back to the days where the engine was limited and paying actually unlocked features like realtime shadows, reflections or building to a plattform like Android and iOS.

    As I said: For me personally it will probably mean that I will actually pay less (meaning: nothing) for nearly the same features I have now. The only thing Unity is missing in the free version for me is now the dark UI and having the theoretical option to change the splash screen, which I don't use anyways.

    I still dislike the way it was made public and the way we still don't know more details.
    What will the pay-to-own plan include?
    How much will it be?
    What's up with the multiplayer limitation thingie?
    What is the actual difference between the analytics plans?
    Will Unity at some point be subscription based only?
    Will Level 11 be switched for that "Asset Store packages" deal (and does that really make a difference)?

    I really want to support Unity for the engine they provide but with the current plans I just don't see any necessity to do so any more. Leasing is always a thing I avoid as much as possible (still not on Adobe CC and won't be as long as I can help it, using Modo and ZBrush instead of Autodesk Software ...) so with the current plan stucture I just won't because I don't need to. And that strangely doesn't even make me as happy as it probably should. Is that weird?
     
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  22. orb

    orb

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    And what the heck does more optimisation mean?
     
  23. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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    But it's not cheaper even for them! If you had perpetual license, bought all addons and been upgrading the cost is gonna be doubled now. Only ones who might benefit from this who are new pro users or people who have been on the subscription plan already but I assume majority of the old community has been upgrading their perpetual licenses for years.
     
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  24. Ostwind

    Ostwind

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  25. ugur

    ugur

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    Regarding those moaning about the length of the posts: Well, those piled up over the blogs and other channels and despite being very long, are actually somewhat of a summary of the views laid out by hundreds of comments and emails by the community on the pricing/licensing changes over the last few days.

    Then the parts on stability/reliability issues over the past few 5.x versions and the parts on differentiation of features for the engine subscription options and talk on the general business model and focus of services goes on about larger issues piling up even over years, so yes, it is long =( =)
    And yeah, i could have probably edited it down some more, but then, yes, i had to get back to coding at some point, too =)
    If you don't read it, cool by me, if you do, i promise there is some value to it =)

    The super brief summary is stability and reliability has to be improved and pricing of offers has to be reduced to what most who payed up to now feel reasonable with and for the future UT has to reconsider how to differentiate features for different pricing options and if to push free to play business as main focus for unity content (and hence it's services etc offerings) or other options.
     
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  26. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    My problem is that I think Unity is currently in a terrible state, with issues still around from the 5.0 beta, major issues by the way.

    And I thought we were sort of on the same page with Unity themselves. The price hike shows me something else though.

    That's my problem with Unity. The price hike and focus on new services is communicating to me that they think their engine is working wonderfully. Maybe their lightmapping producing "meh" results after working against it for hours is as intended. Maybe they think the whole mess they made with linear and gamma is as intended. Maybe they feel proud about their outdated terrain, the horrible animation editor, the slow performing UI that they haven't really touched since 4.x and all those other features that they sort of implemented and then left them alone. They must think all those things work great, because otherwise I can't imagine how they would even dare think of raising prices.

    Also forgive me if I don't look forward to porting my whole project (which is stuck to 4.x because of showstopper issues of 5.x) to Unreal. Decisions are not simple like that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
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  27. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Please keep thread relevant and on topic. I liked the comments I had to delete :/ but I know from experience it's a derail tangent. Have to in order to respect other people's comments. If need to complain to me please PM :)
     
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  28. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    All hail formatting of paragraphs!
     
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  29. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    It is a tad long for a "summary".

    Here's what your post looked like to me after scanning through them:
    "I don't like the thing unity is doing. Unity should do other thing, because reasons. I'm sure that my proposed thing is better than unity's thing."

    Now, did I miss anything? There were couple of similar posts, and after brief scan through your Three Great Walls of Text I haven't pinpointed anything significantly different.
     
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  30. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    You mostly nailed the first post. There is also a fair bit of free user bashing. I feel like that deserves a mention in the summary.

    The second and third posts are actually pretty different. Something like "The freemium model for mobile games sucks". Which might have some truth too it. But I hardly see how its Unity's problem, or what it has to do with the first post.
     
  31. ugur

    ugur

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    No, it's not about free user bashing. That part is about thinking of different ways to differentiate the product tiers that make sense to most users. Once given all engine features in all pricing tiers and the main differentiator left in there which is important to many is splashscreen or not, that is not good differentiation for a higher pricing tier, hence why many moaning about that.

    Regarding the posts on the issues of the freemium model:
    the reason i brought that up in this overall discussion and what it has to do with it and Unity: Unity Tech of course has to and does consider what are the big things right now and in the future and hence what to focus on and what to offer the users in engine features and services.
    Obviously it was thought of free to play with iAPs and or (reward) ads being a big thing and hence several of the features/ services introduced by Unity over the last year are focussed on making and trying to maximize profit on free to play stuff.
    At Unite Europe, a good portion of the keynote was spent on talking about such services focussed on free to play pushing and highlighting success case studies of free to play model users.
    When you look at the new pricing options, the main attempt to push them as positive for users was a) mentioning it now included all platforms and b) it includes all these services, of which a good part is mostly useful for free to play model stuff.

    So yeah, it felt like it made sense to evaluate free to play and think about how healthy it is right now and for the future in general and also to consider how healthy it is when Unity in Engine and Service features/offerings and at Conferences and other Promo/community outreach is pushing that model so heavily.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  32. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Sorry guys, needed to merge it. Makes it easier for Unity to find data and it was the same subject.
     
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  33. ZJP

    ZJP

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    I'm stuck to 4.x because a diffrence of 200-250fps lost in Unity 5 in the same project. I can understand your concern. :(

    Back to the actual subject, as i said previously, regardless of the approach, the 100% desktop developers are not favored by this new plan and wait for a response ... more favorable.
     
  34. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Seriously? You merged in the posts complaining about the walls of text? :p
     
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  35. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    I am currently a Unity 5 Pro user. I have the desktop license only. I paid $1500 for the perpetual license. This new pricing structure ($1500/year) is a huge price increase.

    Previously, the $1500 perpetual license was for a major version of Unity that lasted 3-4 years. With Unity 5, the cycle was shortened to 2 years. That alone was effectively a major price increase for all Pro users.

    At least with previous major version releases, Unity offered an upgrade discount. So to go from Unity 4 Pro to Unity 5 Pro, an upgrade user would only pay $750. I was expecting the same thing to go between Unity 5 Pro and Unity 6 Pro. Even with the release cycle shortened to 2 years, I was still ok with paying the $750 upgrade price at some point. That would have averaged out to $375 per year for me to keep Unity Pro upgraded. I was fine with that. I am not fine paying $1500 per year for the new subscription, though. Unity has effectively quadrupled my yearly cost to keep Unity Pro updated!

    Furthermore, the more I look at the new pricing, the more it feels like everybody is getting a price increase. Unity is bundling the mobile add-ons into the $125/month Pro subscription, which would have normally been $225/month, so Pro mobile developers who were already on a subscription plan will be getting a better price. But that is the only use case getting a discount.

    By contrast, Pro mobile developers on a perpetual license will actually be getting a price increase. Pro mobile developers on a perpetual license originally had to pay $4500 up front and then $2250 to upgrade every 3-4 years. On a 3-4 years upgrade cycle, Pro mobile developers on perpetual licenses were paying $563-$750 per year to stay current. On a 2 year upgrade cycle, those developers would have paid $1125 per year to stay current. With the new pricing model, those developers are going to pay $1500 per year for a subscription.

    With this most recent announcement from Unity, it is obvious that I won't be given the option to pay an upgrade price for my perpetual license, because Unity wants to force everybody onto subscription based licenses. Unity is telling me to pay 4 times as much money per year to keep Unity Pro updated. I am unwilling to do that. If that is my only option, then I will continue using my existing Unity 5 Pro perpetual license as long as it is feasible and then switch to a different engine instead of upgrading to Unity 6 Pro.
     
  36. quantumsheep

    quantumsheep

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    I'd also like to add a few positives if I might?

    As a potential new pro purchaser, I think I'd be getting a relatively better deal with all the platforms merged into one package. I think that part's right, so nice one.

    Previously, when I considered pro (as a subscription) it was looking like $150pm for an iOS and PC/Mac licence, which was just too much for me, personally.

    It's now $125pm for all platforms. My initial thought was 'cool' (and it still is - like I said, nice move) but I'm still not able to justify that kind of expense for (as I've mentioned numerous times now) just one feature that's important to me.

    However, it's not a great deal if you're only making desktop games, and current licence holders have a point when the price is quite a bit more than what they previously paid e.g. current perpetual licence holders and their discounted update cost.

    But for someone looking to make mobile and PC games and looking to buy pro for the first time, it seems more reasonable (if you can afford/justify the cost).

    Cheers,

    QS =D
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
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  37. Leoo

    Leoo

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  38. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    For mobile Unity rules, but for a desktop project i use UE4, it has a better interface and better theme makes you working in a more enoyable environment than Unity Personnal, you feel more productive in some way, i don't think people will drop 35$ per month only to get black theme really.
     
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  39. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Yes, if you compare the existing subscription plan with mobile add-ons to the new subscription plan, then there is a cost savings for mobile developers. But if you were a mobile developer on a perpetual license, the new subscription plan is actually a cost increase compared to the previous perpetual license upgrades.
     
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  40. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    I agree that nearly nobody is going to pay $35 per month just to get a dark skinned editor. That is a silly "feature" to stick behind a paywall. Unity should put the dark skinned editor into every plan including free/personal, simply because it makes their own product look better.
     
  41. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    This is not looking better , but you will be more inclined to use lot more the editor, it results i use lot more often UE4 than Unity personnal edition as i enjoy more UE4 modern editor. Unity will need some editor rework some day also.

     
  42. the_motionblur

    the_motionblur

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    No they shouldn't because people actually want it and it doesn't matter nearly as much as some make it out to be. It's a thing that is absolutely cosmetic in nature and doesn't have any impact on game creation or publishing whatsoever (yeah "eye strain" and such ... nonsense). But it is a feature that is wanted by many. So yeah. From Unity's point of view it should stay in the pay-fot-it tier. Absolutely. And I actually support it despite not having the dark skin myself from next year on, probably. ;)
     
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  43. salgado18

    salgado18

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    Yay, car analogy! We all love them, don't we? :D

    I think it's almost that, but not quite.

    Unity gave you a free, fully funcional car. It has everything you need to drive confortably, including a tape deck, and child seats, and so on. Everything.

    But the car has a large sticker on the side, saying "Made by Unity". It's just a sticker over the paint, but it's there. And you can only remove it if you subscribe to a pack of services with Unity, which include one free car wash per week, monthly preventive maintenance, discounts in accessories, membership on a car club, and an exclusive darker dashboard. But you must subscribe, otherwise even the dashboard will be taken away!

    Now, they are offering Plus: you get one car wash per month, maintenance every six months, discounts in accessories, and an account on the car club forum. You pay monthly, but you can't take away the sticker.

    The thing is: some people don't mind the sticker (I wouldn't normally), but some people just can't use them (sales people, for example). And the only way to remove it is by subscribing to a services package that you can do it yourself for free (like washing your car), you don't need (discounts in accessories), or has no apparent value (membership in a car club). Yes, you do get a special dashboard color, but is it worth the monthly cost?

    Unity, really, you need to evaluate better the value of your products. They DO have value, but the price must match this value for us.
     
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  44. Parallaxe

    Parallaxe

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    I have talked to some Unity people at Unite 2016 and raised similar questions like you. Here are the answers that I got. Not sure if these answers are already carved in stone (given the discussions currently going on wrt the new pricing tiers) but that's what they told me at Unite 2016:

    Content-/Feature-wise? Same as the original subscription.

    Pay-to-own on the Pro level would require you to subscribe for two years. After that the software is yours (with no further major version upgrades, asset store packages etc., of course).

    With the new pricing model it's already "subscription based only". Unless you see the "pay-to-own" option as an option for perpetual.

    It seems that the asset store packages will replace Level 11, but details are not available yet.

    Again, insert a big disclaimer here. In the discussions that I had it seemed as if some details are not yet finalized. E.g. the upgrade plans for existing subscription/perpetual users. Nevertheless, hope it helps.
     
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  45. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Ouch. That is a big price hike compared to the current perpetual licensing and upgrade options. It is nice to know there is an option to sort of own a license, but it is clearly a price hike compared to the previous perpetual licensing.

    For example, it used to be $1500 to buy a perpetual license and $750 to upgrade that license to the next major version. Now (based on the pay-to-own subscription), it would be $3000 to pay-to-own plus $3000 to pay-to-own the next major version.

    I feel like all of us Pro users with perpetual licenses are getting thrown under the bus.
     
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  46. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Gee... thanks a lot. </sarcasm... deep sarcasm... in case it wasn't blatantly obvious>
     
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  47. Parallaxe

    Parallaxe

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    Yes, initially I had the same thoughts (I'm also a Pro Perpetual user). But I will wait for their upgrade offers before I judge. Call me naive, but I still believe that they will have a fair offer for us Pro Perpetual users. We'll see :)
     
  48. Der_Kevin

    Der_Kevin

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    Please no! The unreal ui is awful! Weird and non consistent iconographie. They have no red line in their editor ui and it seams like 100 designers worked on that at the same time. The unity ui is minimal and clean. Keep it how it is
     
  49. moonjump

    moonjump

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    The Unity FAQ says 3 years unless you are an existing perpetual licence holder, where you also have a 2 year option.

    http://unity3d.com/unity/faq/4520/
     
  50. ippdev

    ippdev

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    And?? Like I don't know that? I do alot of work for clients that are not charging for their app, such as a SuperCar showroom for a car dealer selling cars to middle eastern royalty. Or archviz for real estate developers that do not charge their clientele for the app so it doesn't affect me at all. The two games I do have to release with Unity, one will not be released until the terrain issues and SpeedTree can give me more than 60FPS. I have been waiting months for something to budge. AZnd they have the nerve to want to charge subscription after i bought Pro from 2.x to 4.x on multiple platforms. This crap with 5.x has killed me financially and I have not been able to justify a pro purchase over eating and keeping a roof, lights and internet on as well as vehicle maintenance and insurance, pet food. I live a very sparing life currently. They act like we are rolling in dough and the economy is rocking. May be for Ricotello. This guys arrogance in bringing his despised EA practices to Unity is appalling. Fire his ass or the engine will die a slow, miserable death.
     
    katoun, elias_t, tswalk and 5 others like this.
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