New products and prices coming soon

With teams those sizes, you expect to make a profit or at least break even at some point, right?

I've seen average developer salary bandied about of $57,000, so I'll go with that. I'll leave out other ancillary costs and assume you can get by on the common modifier (who needs marketing anyways).

Salary: $57,000 * 1.2 (common overhead multiplier around where I'm from) = $68,400/year.
Total Personnel Costs over 2 years: $68,400 * 2 years * 30 = $4,104,000
Cost of Unity as a percentage of personnel costs: $90,000 / $4,104,000 = 2.2%
Cost of Unreal as a percentage of personnel costs:
$4,104,000 - $24,000 = $4,080,000 (first 3K per quarter is free)
$4,080,000 * 0.05 = $204,000 in royalties to Epic
$204,000 / $4,104,000 = 4.97%

Let's take the worst case of you being a new company with no revenue. As a new company you will need to eat costs until your first title is out. Let's call that 2 years for simplicity's sake. So, the first two years, yes, Unreal is attractive. But, as a startup, I wouldn't be paying for pro to start with, I'd buy pro right before release. So it's kind of a wash at the beginning.

Any other scenario where your company is making enough to just survive is going to see an ROI using Unity within a year and your save 2.77% each year thereafter.

A lot of assumptions, not everyone's situation falls into my example, please check my math. I wrote this mainly to point out that just dropping costs is like saying, "I like butter!". It means nothing out of a real world context and looking at costs without taking minimum necessary income into consideration means nothing. You can't base decisions on one variable in an equation.

Having said that (and to deflect the all seeing eye of Hippo), here are my abbreviated thoughts on it all:
Personal: Great, nothing much different here, thanks for the free tool Unity.
Plus: Meh, I'd pay for a dark skin (me old eyes, you know), but not $35/mo. Services, meh, if they end up being important, I'd probably fork out for Pro anyways.
Pro: Desktop is taking a price hike, mobile's getting a better deal. Should have been more honest and just said, 'hey, we want to simplify our billing, we need to make a bit more to support Unity properly, we'll ease you desktop folks in over the next couple years.' Change is hard. Be transparent. Do it right. (The feels like spin, if this was honest and transparent, then I worry).

It's disappointing that they handle pricing changes so poorly. Why would you rush to announce at a conference without everything mostly figured out and have the information available, or a good FAQ? How can they not now by now that that just breeds confusion and distrust? Hey, you know what, I'm available for pricing/marketing consulting, drop me a line, let's talk.

 

Good point. But, you still need to make payroll, so given the long tail trend in sales you will still pay a good chunk in royalties. My example and numbers are not perfect, but I think it helps to show that if you are in it for the long haul, the pricing of the engines is at best neutral.

 

Was it? I deleted the post because I felt like my math (I always sucked at it) and reasoning were way off.

 

I agree with @Ryiah

I've always seen feedback in most forms as a good thing, it shows people are still passionate and / or interested in a product. It's when it gets to the point of indifference software developers are in trouble.

As @hippocoder said, there's tons of great feedback here. Vote with your wallets, with the amount of great options out there in the short term it might "Sting... Ray?" a little but in the long term only Unity will suffer via their decisions.

I do hope you awesome dev's hear some feedback soon though!.

 

I doubt that Unity will make any noticeable changes to their subscription plans as a results of all the feedback. Not now. I think it will be at least GDC next year when we could expect changes, if any. Until then, I'd recommend everyone with a perpetual license to hold off from upgrading to subscription. Vote with your wallet.

 

I think it's probably time for Unity to start focusing on the engine, we as users want to hear about how our games will run better and if there are nice new features. We don't want to be alarmed and pressured and confused. We want to make games.

Price increase, subscription, blog drama, Unite, bugs, constant monetization etc, all at the same time erode customer confidence and probably erode respect too. I've done my bit, I've supported Unity best I possibly can as I don't do half measures. I really believe I can make a difference, and in return maybe that difference will help all of us.

But this is just too many things at once, and the users have shown they are upset. Time to address this and focus on things that mean a lot: like us making games. This isn't like those other times when the community got upset but forgave. This time it feels disrespectful and not very well planned. I know it's not the intention but the whole thing has rubbed me up the wrong way. I'm pretty professional though and I would like to give Unity a great opportunity here to address each and every concern about it, so I and the users are waiting. Don't let us wait too long

 

Spot on!.. "Bows to the almighty Hippo"..

 

I agree, but man, the timing of this announcement was...just awful. Announcing at a time the entire company is busy and can not adequately respond to concerns... That said, I agree with the price hike, I purchased a perpetual license in the 4x days. Even then, Unity was expensive, but I can understand increasing the price with additional features added.

The advantage to mobile developers (existing pro) is not so advantageous IMHO, unless you are a new user buying a license for Unity + (Android || iOS). For upgrade pricing it is even worse (Although, to be fair, we don't really know what upgrade pricing will be). I think that given the current situation, they will make the offer for pro upgrades somewhat attractive. Desktop only pro users are really getting the short end here.

If they are going forward with a price increase (and I think it is safe to assume that at this point), I would like more stability. and mobile baking (gamma) fixed...as I've been complaining about it before the 5.0 release.

 

The splash screen in personal edition of unity has a really bad reputation among players .See this video, starting from 1:07

Unfortunately a long list of crap games are associated to unity engine. The solution to reverse this is simple, show only the splash screen when the player open game the third time. The player open the game 1/2 times to test, if it's crap probably will be unistalled, the player never see the splash screen. If open's the game the third time probably likes the game, the splash screen of unity is show and associated positively.
(Google translate help)

 

Most businesses (and projects) fail, so while you may *expect* to make a profit, most don't.

 

So that statement would support royalties.

 

I've been using Unity since 3.x and this right here is why my Team is switching to Unreal. I like Unity as a game engine but the new pricing model, the SJW type blog posts, and the fact we target standalone/Web has caused us to switch after our current game. If the pay to own (not pre-pay for subscription) is good enough we may stick with Unity.

Edit:
I do appreciate the moderators trying to defend UT as non-biased as they have been but as hippocoder pointed out, there's too much too fast that's going on.

 

Correct.

 

ugur: I think this might be the longest forum posts I have ever seen. Maybe this thread would be more effectively with a concise shortened version of the posts and maybe just a quick link to the much longer article to read online.

 

Not a fan of the splash screen, but don't really see it as that big a deal.

I would think your game would not end up being panned by these guys if it's good. Do they pan a game just because it has the splash screen? If not, then the customer will have already bought the game before knowing it was built with Unity Personal Edition. I would hope most would at least play it for a bit before asking for a refund.

 

And yet Unity keeps the splash screen thing as one of the most important features of the pro license...

 

My point being, you go into it planning to make a profit/stay afloat. The cost of the engine is in the single digit percentile when compared to just salaries, regardless of your choice.

So, yes, if you are starting out, Unreal is slightly cheaper/safer. If you already have a revenue stream then Unity will give you a couple percentage points on the profit side.

You also need to look at the productivity of the tools also. I haven't used Unreal so I can't really talk to which is more productive on average. There's also bringing newbies up to speed, the available pool of candidates, etc.

 

They gave away the farm. So, I kinda get that this is the last carrot they have to tempt a lot of us to Pro. At least since the services stuff wasn't around, not that that will convert many. I just don't see it being as big a problem that it's being made out to be.

As has been said, they are not very good at communicating and that is causing a lot of FUD.

 

Pro, Plus or Poor? I do not like the idea of creating the third class by pushing the prize up.

Yes, i think was better to call the plus version "PRO" and push pro prize down form 75 and the pro $125 call it "PRO Plus" or Pro Studio.

If Pro cost 50% more then can grow up to 250u$d in 2019 and 500$ in 2020 in an infinite elevation (Software) singularity... And this is needed for making a new better Unity product much bigger and powerful. So is better to make the same product cheaper (Pro) and make a new product with new branding and new prize (Pro Studio).

In a constant simple way that everybody can understand...

...and fanny.

• $0 Indea (or $16 as optional donation ones in while if you wish)
• $32 Indea Plus
• $64 Pro (the actual pro) or the mobile you target.
• $128 Pro Plus (the Jun pro that includes multiplataforms)
• $256 Pro Studio <--- Just cost more, that is all. and 100 extra feedback votes
• $512 .... Vip for the Boss<--- do not give you that much but guarantee Unity grow up (a separate forum.)
• And if unity needs more cash can add more in this list. (or a limite edition)

And users will pay what they can in relationship of there thinking culture and how much they can do.

Is for Desktop PC as optional as other engine do. Plus the actual image is not so exiting for the player point of view, so there is space to improve.

 

Wait. what? Would someone fill me in? /off-topic

 

Mobile should not cost any more than desktop does. Some would even say it should cost less cause majority of the improvements and development seems to go desktop related stuff.

 

I think he is refering to this: http://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/06/02/do-you-want-to-make-your-studio-more-diverse/

@AlanMattano: May i ask why you always design your posts in blue and non-default font?

 

Thank you!

 

Haha, I was about to quote the same line and follow with a "wtf??" but then realized I didn't really feel like even going there.

 

I think that this tweet https://twitter.com/unity3d/status/738391323200348160?lang=en is a good argument regarding the needth of combating misogyny and promoting diversity.
SJW. Right.
I miss the period when Taumel was the most radical voice in these forums.

 

My point is that Unity is a technology company and that they should focus on developing a game engine and posting related news instead of trying to get on the diversity train. On my team, if you qualify for a position then you're on, if not then you're passed over regardless of race or gender. Once you try to mix politics and social views into a community, you cause division and distraction from the more important topics on hand.

 

The truth is they have in fact announced the new product in the keynote at Unite Europe 2016... that is the next product line-up and offerings. The features are announced, and it is time to decide to buy-in or not.

Unfortunately, I see nothing that motivates me to do so. The promises made for 5.x launch and what we have today are a far miss.

I'm sorry, but that time has expired as it all should have been resolved long before the next release and announced changes.

As a Pro licensee and independent contractor, they have put me in a position that I do not like and I really have no choice but to hold my current license and begin planning a transition. The offerings are not suitable with an asking price cost nearly 500%...

 

Just wanted to chime in and voice my disappointed opinion purely for the sake of showing Unity who they are hurting with this decision.

My baseball card style description:
I am a 33 year old software engineer who loves software development and especially game design, but spends most of my time at a salaried job(Which I'm very happy with!), rather than bringing all of amazing(Amazing to me at least!) ideas to life. I'm married to a wonderfully patient and supportive wife who let's me take risks to fulfill my creative itch. I'm a father of 3 kids who always want me to make them something awesome just for them... which I do... Because even if it sucks they are too young to realize it sucks. I use Unity at work for some projects, and at home I use it to do a little freelance work on the side and enter game competitions. That is me and here is how this hurts me.

1) The past:
I am a Unity 4/5 pro user. The license for 5 pro was actually given to me for free by one of the big 3 consoles for use on their system so technically I don't own 5 as I decided against developing for that specific platform at this time. Currently I'm only interested in doing desktop development so all the added benefits from getting the mobile licenses don't help me. Also consoles licenses were already free because once you became a registered developer most if not all of the platforms would get you a license for free. So all in all this change just makes life a lot more expensive for me. When I bought 4 pro I was under the impression that I would be able to purchase it for $1500 then upgrade about every 2 years for $750. I thought that to be a great deal so I invested. So for me what cost $2250(Had I paid to upgrade to 5 already.) would have cost me, during that same 4 year period for 4 and 5 life cycles, $6000. I'm mainly a hobbiest but also use it for game competitions and free lance work. During which period I've made around $4k(Just from my solo adventures, this doesn't count using it for different work projects.). I've been happy with that because again it's mainly been fun hobby stuff that I've done on the side from my real job. So for me I've paid for the cost of all my investments plus gotten a little extra. Totally worth it. Under the new scheme I would have been in the hole $2k. Would have stopped a long time ago because... losing money sucks.

2) The present:
I love Unity and preach it where ever I go. I am responsible for many indie developers, small teams, and large government projects switching to Unity. Unity has made thousands of dollars directly from me enthusiastically spreading the good word. I think Unity is great. However, before it was like an unconditional love(Not always a perfect love, but no relationship is perfect .). Regardless of the project I was like "Hey Unity would be perfect for that!". Now especially when its smaller groups and individuals there is definitely going to have to be a very strong conditional warning with it. Large teams? Sure go ahead and gouge them. But us little guys? Why are you making it harder for me to keep loving you? I know people have said just use plus, but wtf? Plus is a joke! $35 dollars for some extra analytics that I probably will want, but won't use because that's over $400 a year. Again that is ridiculous to me because it is right back to the exact same price as the basic version of Unity used to be for their basic licenses back in the day... only actually double that because this is an annual fee. I converted so many indies to Unity when you first announced that 5 was free for what was pretty much the pro version of the engine. Use free now because they are the same then once your game is ready you can pay to upgrade to pro for a one time fee! This feels like a long con and a total bait & switch. I get it that if you need desktop AND ios AND android there can be some good short term value(Over a long period of time it is still way more expensive.), but for a desktop/console team this became insanely more expensive.

3) The future:
One of the biggest kickers for me is this: When I get around to finally releasing one of my amazing games on steam or whatever there will never be a time when I can stop being a professional subscriber(Again plus is stupid.). I am the type of dev that will continue supporting a product, even if it wasn't a commercial success, for as long as I can. But doing that means that as long as I'm supporting a product I have to keep paying $125 a month. Even if the game is not making any money I have to keep forking over cash just to support the few people who did buy the game! Fortunately for me everything I do, I'm sure, will be a huge financial success so paying the $125 a month will not be an issue. However statistically speaking most people in my same position not make crazy good money and will either stop supporting their game or just lose the money.

Looking at my future products Unity just makes less sense for me personally than it did a couple weeks ago. At my work place where its not my personal cash being spent? Sure keep using it because Unity is great! I know people are going to chime in and say 'Just use free then stupid!', and I will. However I can't do my fun side contracting with the free or plus version, and I don't make enough to even break even with the pro version. I will hopefully release a full game some day that will make me tons of money, but using Unity is just flat out a greater risk than it was with the old model. So I have to make the realistic decision to continue using Unity in my personal life.

 

Well it sure has been like watching a trainwreck at Unity express this week, all kinds of dismal .. and that last screeching(preaching) sjw blaahg post sure was insightful, they seemed to have wiped out all the critical 'bad think' comments.

I can't say its going to be smooth sailing ahead looks like a storms a coming and I'm dug into using this unstable wreck.. it looked so nice and easy boarding it back last year, think I'll be swimming on over to unreal island this summer

 

The idea of justifying the cost because its percentile relative to the total cost of hiring an additional employee is in the single digits is dangerous as a businessman or woman - and its not just slightly cheaper, its A LOT cheaper on the development side and reduces the risk to the developers.

Consequently, I haven't looked at Unreal until this week and I have to say I'm quite impressed as to how easy it is to switch over. They have a page that illustrates the correlations and differences that makes it quite easy.

Additionally, if you would like to tweak the engine to fit your team you have the source. I have to say, over the past few days, that plus the fact that no matter how big your team is the cost to develop is $0 for the tech and a very reasonable 5% on profit past $3k (seriously, if someone is going to complain about forking over $30k for every $600k in revenue they generate they have issues) is making a very strong case for our team to switch.

 

Short term, but not long term if the company survives. Risk and reward, everyone has there tolerance for risk, I get it.

Stop tempting me. Hopefully one day I'll have the free time to check it out!

Totally agree, you definitely have to look at all of the variables when choosing.

 

Gotcha, so Unity is for big companies and Unreal for small indies.

I'm having a blast with unreal as well (it has this one feature, where you bake lightmaps and they actually look good!). Maybe the loss of trust in Unity was for the best.

 

wait, what... i'm still in reality right?

 

Is there another conclusion that you can draw from what he said?

(and I was being sarcastic)

 

Uh, no. Depends on your tolerance for risk, how confident you are in your product selling well, and having the capital to get you through development.

Also, as I said before you need not purchase Unity Pro until you are near ready to release, unless you really really need those Pro services and even then you can integrate them at the end. So, it is free until then which reduces the cost even more initially.

 

Dang it, I thought so, but can't resist when the smilies are missing.

 

As opposed to Unreal which asks you for 0 dollars?

Also, if you are a legal entity (say, a small indie team), you CAN'T start with personal and switch to Pro. (at least that's how it was with the previous terms, not sure if something changed)

 

All that? I think I'll add my chapter to that and call it Exit Us. LOL, ciao.

 

(and I was being supportively sarcastic)

 

(glad we got all that figured out then )

 

well.. this is the last word I have on this subject/thread and my approach to all of this.

Out of everything I've read so far, I have a few options so things look up and I can:

1) begin planning an alternate business model using a different engine
2) continue to use my 5.x license for what it is worth and will be after 3/2017
3) wait to see what the rent-to-own offer for existing Pro licensees will be and then resolve my verdict to fully invest in option #1 or not.

I have to thank Unity for motivating me to option #1, I knew there would be a day and I guess that day is today.

 

Unreal is for big companies too. Acquiring a custom license is fairly straightforward from what I've heard.

 

But you are right;
Usually any game will sell on Steam at first 2 weeks, after that it's pretty much dead; unless you can push many updates all the time like Dota2 and other huge games as service.

 

Wait, what? Glad no one else reacted but I kinda want to know, why bring youtube/twitter drama here?

EDIT: Ok, there was some kind of glitch, now I see there were similar reactions to mine before

 

Switching has always been allowed as far as I know, just can't use both at the same time. Notice the word 'simultaneously' in the terms.

"You may not combine or integrate Licensee Content that you develop with Unity Personal simultaneously with any Licensee Content that you develop with Unity Pro or any Unity Pro Add-On Products."

 

Because as I posted earlier, UT needs to stick to development related posts and not http://blogs.unity3d.com/2016/06/02/do-you-want-to-make-your-studio-more-diverse/

Social issues do not belong on the forums or blog nor does trying to make a statement about it.

 

And yet here you are, calling it SJW and "the diversity train", etc. We get it, you don't want diversity. Cool. Ok, can we talk about the new Unity announcement?

 

So you can't read, got it. /end off topic


One thing I would like to know is if Unity would be up for selling the services separately and drop the price of the subscription.

 

I didn't really read it beyond the title right now but who cares, it's just a blog post.

 

As I stated before, the costs are so close as to not really be a factor when choosing in most cases, your mileage may vary.

Why this dogmatic attachment to price when I've shown it is not a factor in most cases? If it does in your case, then great go with Unreal, but that doesn't change the numbers.