NEW GENRE

I think theres too many people copying each others ideas and slightly changing the concept a bit but keeping the game more or less the same, I think we should think of a new genre and build on that?

Any ideas for new genres?

 

By "build on that," don't you just mean copying each others ideas and slightly changing the concept?

 

I'd certainly like to see more adult-based themes. And not talking about just violence. Candies and rainbows have seen so much overkill (there is ov course the exception with Charlie and Candy Mountain LOL).

But seriously, the only more or less adult themed games seem to be JRPGs. Ugh. So if you are fishing for genres - that would be what would make me happy to see more of. Grit, darkness, deception, torture and all the non-PG elements that go with that.

Other genres/themes/core elements that I personally think would add an interesting element to the gaming scene:

• Folk lore/traditional stories (Africa, Europe)
• Religion-based (NOT offensive, but supportive of it - and yes, would be niche)
• Fun educational (sorry, but so many children education games suck horribly)
• More strategy/colony sims like dwarf fortress (incredible how difficult it is for any game to measure up to DF!!!)

So yeah...my biased views

 

@shaderop nope no copying allowed

 

Keep in mind that new is not universally definable, and you can make something seem new to other people when it doesn't seem new to you. Something you consider new will seem like a rehash to somebody.

 

Snow shovelling simulator. Its hard because anything you can think of is already done.

 

The 3 Keyboard's Game Genre:

Connect 3 keyboards to your computer, and then you have to guess what keys to hit in order to progress in game. Also there is no images or sound, only a vibrator attached somewhere on your body as feedback (not on your ding dong, you pervert!).

So thats kinda new?

 

That, but with electric shocks instead of vibration. Studies have shown that electric shock treatment can be very effective at changing behaviour.

 

Perhaps one should look to real life for inspiration. There is a game to be found in anything. For example, Papers, Please made an awesome game out of checking immigration papers. Here are a few games I can think of from the topic of airplanes:

Airplane Builder - A sandbox game where you design airplanes while balancing for speed, performance, and fuel efficiency.
The Lost Planes - An epic and narrative game where you search for the incredible flying vehicles of a bygone civilization. Each one you find brings you closer to solving a mystery.
Flight Attendant - A silly game where you have to go around trying to keep passengers happy.

 

I think to `inspire` a new genre is only something you can do if you have a very creative, original game, the likes of which has never been seen in the way you've done it, such that people WANT to copy it and clone it. So you're asking about trying not to copy each other and to be more original, but the only way it's going to become a genre is to get lots of people to copy what you do and create spinoffs from it. So if you're in the business of 'making a new genre', you're also talking out of both sides of your mouth because then you're also in the business of 'making more people copy each other'. You're just talking mainly about being the FIRST to seemingly do something that inspires a lot of copying.

 

Shovel Knight got there first.

 

It's not true that 'anything you can think of is already done'. True, a lot has already been done, but there will always still be innovation and creativity that comes up with advances not seen before. Sometimes progress in technology gives rise to possibilities that simply couldn't be done before.... could you imagine minecraft working on an zx spectrum?

 

But minecraft was a copy of some other game. Cheater - you have to evade your spouse and get to rendezvous without her noticing, and the longer you keep the affair going the more points you get.

 

Ok so every game that every existed in a computer is a copy of the previous ones, because they're all based on the same binary digits 0 and 1. How's that?

 

What if I create a processor that's base 3 instead? Sure, it's inefficient...but it's original!*

*: And will have a development community of probably a single gangly nerd, who'll demand a Sword Art Online MMORPG. Thus, we come full circle.

 

Eventually we are going to have to. While binary is easy to build, its going to hit physical limitations eventually. In which case we may all need to switch to an analogue mode of computing.

Or not. I'm no expert on computer science.

 

So instead of a boolean representing False, and True

We have a troolean representing False, True, and Who Cares?

 

So basically like a dating sim? I get the feeling Japan has got that one covered.

 

And that's before you get to the eroge variants...

 

You could look at existing games and extract a new genre that is basically just a focused piece of the original genre. Or simply look at lost genres from the past. I enjoyed RTS games such as Warcraft 1 and 2. The Tower Defense genre never existed at least not like we see now. I mean sure there was Rampart back 20 years or more ago. But the modern Tower Defense games came from WOW I think. When players created maps for units to kind of run a gauntlet. However, TD games also seem like someone took an RTS and streamlined it to focus only on unit creation and placement then watch the battles. No need to manage resources such as gathering wood, ore etc and no need to create buildings.

So... either view would be a viable option. Looking at modern popular games and extracting only the fun piece (where fun is what you enjoy the most) or looking for games that defined a new genre long ago but never caught on. Probably an idea before its time.

 

Starcraft, then Warcraft 3. Unsure if TD existed before Starcraft, but by the gods i won't let WC3 take away the credit from Starcraft! That's where my game dev roots spawn from, good ol' Starcraft.

I've got you Starcraft *hugs*. Go away WC3! Git! You dirty thunder stealer you!

There really is no "new genre". If you'd like you could look at it from an artistic stand point:
" Michelangelo claimed that his job was to free the human form trapped inside the block."
Is that not what game designers do? We find and distill experiences by removing the surrounding experiences.
Think about it, all a game really is, is a set of limitations causing a focus on an experience that already existed.

 

I think @Aiursrage2k was referring to Infiniminer, which Notch actually based Minecraft on:

And don't forget Dota/LoL arenas, and WoW, too. So that's three game types (tower defense, arenas/lane pusher, and MMO) from the pickings of Warcraft. (I wrote "game types," not "new genre." I'll bow out of the "nothing's new" discussion.) I wonder what other game types can be scavenged from it. I think this is a great point,@GarBenjamin. People often explore how we can combine two ideas, but Warcraft shows that peeling away ideas is just as useful.

 

Yeah thats why its not easy coming up with a new idea. All the moba games were actually based off of Aeon of strife a starcraft 1 map. Spelunky was actually based off of spelunker an old atari game

 

Looks like it comes down to needing a novel and interesting approach on existing rather than trying to break your head over coming up with something new. How many of us did not play every single Sierra adventure quests just because we loved it? It did not have to be new or groundbreaking - just interesting. Every once in a while someone has a fascinating new approach (e,g, Clockwork Empires), but it has been a while since I have seen something unique.

 

It is a fun topic but I don't think a new genre is really needed. There are tons of different game types that seem to get little attention from game developers. It doesn't take much creative effort to come up with more than another Flappy Bird clone.

Sports games, for example, seem to be overlooked by Indy devs a lot. If you don't want to work on the AI of a big team game then make it multi-player only. Or simplify in other ways. There is no reason a person could not make a one-on-one basketball game for example. Maybe play Around the World or Horse. Maybe a 3 to 5 on a side football game. Perhaps a backyard football so players would expect amateurs not pros. Or throw in droids instead of humans. Maybe give them special abilities. Or rabbits vs skunks for a comical approach or whatever.

I feel there are tons of games that have never been made mainly because people keep making the same games over and over and over with a different name. There are thousands (at least) of games that have not been made or at least not known. It's just that for some reason people make FPS #1,974 looking and playing very much like all of the others. Or they make RPGs and MMORPGs in the same manner. Why not have an RPG focused on vikings or indians or pirates or whatever. Maybe Ants. Spiders. All of these games and more are waiting for someone to stop making Flappy Bird clone infinity and make them instead.

 

It is easier to copy than to originate, for sure.. to originate in a whole new way is an act of artistic expression... faced with an empty piece of paper or a void, and having something come out from inside you that was not there before.... can be extremely difficult. But if someone makes a game and releases it, now you have a really easy model to copy and `model` your game on. You don't even have to make many decisions to do that, and indeed most people don't, they don't even ask why the designer did what they did, they just do the same or similar, and end up staying inside the same box. I think it's because people stay inside the box that it produces a genre. So to make a new genre, or to begin one, I think you have to really be asking WHY, and you have to step outside of the box and be radically different, or do something in a very different way.

 

This discussion is interesting, but let me outline where I see copying verses genres first before tackling the "new" issue(s). Genres are not created by a single development act, per se, they are, by definition a template of game design principals that have be used by a number of games, typically because of a broad or niche market appeal that has led to consistently (commercially) successful titles. As opposed to game types, like casual, educational or "hard core", that delineate overall game design focus. Genres are typically defined by a core gameplay mechanic (although some have a small subset of core mechanics, like RTS), coupled with standard (player expected) elements, including user interaction (controls), sub-gameplay mechanics, and even graphic / art / music standards.

Genres are extended by introducing (or reducing) gameplay mechanics (or in some cases themes). Once a game is a proven player "hit" and the mechanics, user experience, and other elements are used (consistently) enough in a variety of other games, sub-genres are born. Tower Defense for example.

Using this definition, you cannot copy a Genre, a Genre becomes defined by the number of titles that adhere to the standard, and are defined in turn defined by the most popular "iconic" titles within that genre. C&C and Warcraft in the RTS Genre for example (I'm picking on RTS for consistency).

Copying games is used loosely in this industry. There are what I call "pure copies", usually called clones. That duplicate a popular (usually) game from complete mechanics right down to art and sound, with only minor differences (cloning fade ). Many people consider reusing core mechanics of popular games copying... I'm not there personally. Creating a net new gameplay mechanic is quite difficult, particularly one that players will like (don't get me wrong, there are hundreds of thousands of attempts at new mechanics that fail for many many reasons, from technical limitations to player resistance).

Now, with that rambling rant as context...

I don't think you can copy a genre... that's what a genre is, a template. Most of the core "top level" genres out there today are pretty generic, and tough to change within the confines of current technology, particularly consumer technology. Creating a sub-genre is as "easy" as coming up with a novel twist on any existing genre (or combining 2 or more... with our without a twist). Here's the catch... it will not be a genre until 1) players love it and 2) others use the model enough to establish a standard. Until then ... feel free to submit your game to every "innovative" game contest the internet has to offer. Then there will be one of 3 outcomes:

1) players love it, but it's d*mned hard to duplicate or innovate... you'll be a celebrated artistic genius, but no genre will emerge
2) players love it, others create everything from pure clones to truly genre expanding titles, and you'll make some money and likely show up in a game industry documentary 20-30 yrs from now (unless you dominate your genre, then you'll be a god )
3) players don't like it. it's pretty much over at this point. You might be branded a creative genius. However, in my experience "starving artist" sounds much cooler when it's said in ridiculously expensive art gallery by millionaires 200 yrs after your death that it will ever be to live through. But that's just me... feel free to "suffer for your art"

I'd welcome a new genre, gameplay mechanic, or any other awesome new innovative approach to game making. I personally spend most of my time working on exploring gameplay mechanics, and new ways to approach them (including combining, reversing, etc...). For me, that's where innovation is right now. That said, the new VR and holographic interfaces are begging for some truly new game genres. I'd look there for the best opportunities.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Galen

 

Interesting discussion.

Uneducated post to follow -

Has there been any God games developed/designed for the Oculus?
I could see a game like Populous (or what Molyneux originally wanted Populous to be) being very interesting on the Oculus - where you, as the deity, could physically/mentally/spiritually/magically interact with the game world and the inhabitants of the world.

I believe there is always room for improvement and innovation for game genres. Especially the smaller genres which have solid small core mechanics. Leaves a lot of room for innovation.

 

It's considered rude to hijack threads and derail them. If you want to know that, start a new topic.

 

So instead of adding to the conversation, as I did with my post which is relevant to the topic, you posted solely to derail the conversation?
I agree that is considered rude.

Any input about the OP?