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my UI extension got Rejected. Now what!!?? :P

Discussion in 'UGUI & TextMesh Pro' started by IzzySoft, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Hi All,

    I was hoping to get some help from others trying to publish UI stuff to the Asset Store.
    Was hoping to find the reasons behind my extension not PASSing. :p



    I thought it would Make It in the AssetStore, so I created a thread Here that described it a little more and showed a WebPlayer demo too, plus a video, or two.

    I'm targeting Desktops (and possibly WebPlayers, will see) for the moment.

    Also, here's a screenshot of the Preview Page as it could have looked. Was it offensive maybe? or the Metadata?

    What do you suppose the Asset Store Team (AS Team) found offensive, if it was that at all? :{

    I'm currently unemployed, working on this for a few months now, funds getting low, so I'd like to get this up there, without feeling like i'm at a birthday party, blindfolded, and trying to hit the Pinata! :/

    I feel like UI designers is my best bet to get to the bottom of such issues that might be stopping my extension from getting into the Asset Store, or just more appealing to the AS Team.

    Thanks all, Much Appreciated,
    Izzy.

    PS. dont forget to reply, even if you dont know why either, but want to know what Others might have discovered from their dealings with the AS Team, just bump to show your interest.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  2. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Not that version numbers necessarily mean anything, but "kissUI Beta 0.1.0.1" gives the impression of being a somewhat early and unfinished version. No idea if that's an accurate reflection of the product's actual state. I believe rejections without a specific reason are a polite way of saying "we just don't think this is good enough".

    --Eric
     
  3. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Thank you for the reply. :)

    I bet we will get some constructive feedback from others that failed, then Succeeded, and what they did to get Approved! :{

    Fingers Crossed. :p
     
  4. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Is there a need for a half naked lady as the cover girl? I mean what does this have to do with UI? There are plenty of youngsters playing with Unity, and Unity seems to be reasonably aware if them.

    But I would just email the asset store and ask for clarification. My recent rejection letter was much clearer.

    Out of curiosity, what does this do that Unity UI does not already do?
     
  5. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Subjective. Thats actually a Super Hero (see mask) that also has POWER. Instead of making the Super Hero a Male, it would look ODD with a KISS appearing next to him, which might be More off-putting to a few, so FEMALE it is. :)
    Comic Books show allot more! So, not very convinced there. :)

    Thank you. I just emailed Unity Support. Lets hope it reaches someone in good spirits. :)

    Honestly, I dont know too much about Unitys UI just yet. I've started working on this for well over a year now, and yes, thats well before v4.6. ;) (See More) I'm working on the Reference Manual atm.

    But just from a glance, I would say my UI might be more appealing to Designers who've created web pages using Tables and Margins and even Padding as part of their Layouts. That seems to stand out so far.

    And of course, using some Reflection to process User added Event Handler entries. See the 1st video for a glimpse. It seems Unity 4.6 does have something similar, but i'll have to look at it more to see where the similarities end.. to what kissUI has. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
  6. blizzy

    blizzy

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    My suggestion would be to take a serious in-depth look at Unity's new UI, and see if you can integrate into that to make it more powerful, rather than sidestepping it and creating your own universe.
     
  7. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Hehe.. should have told me 2 years ago. ;)
     
  8. blizzy

    blizzy

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    Right. I'm in an easy position to say what I did :D
     
  9. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    but seriously, even if i knew unity3D was making some sort of new UI back then, I don't think it would have swayed me from having fun making my own UI. Fun for me. :D
     
  10. blizzy

    blizzy

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    So, have you sent mail to the guys asking for clarification?
     
  11. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Still no reply. :{
     
  12. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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  13. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    YAY.. someone replied! :D

     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2015
    hopeful likes this.
  14. blizzy

    blizzy

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    Now that's way more helpful than some sort of empty rejection.
     
    Barry100, Prodigga and Vaupell like this.
  15. Ostwind

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    I agree that the version number seems random and the girl picture has nothing to do with the asset than being an click bait? :rolleyes:

    BTW I don't think it's a good idea to spread email discussions in the forums with all the info.
     
  16. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Thanks for trying to help me. ;)

    Clickbait? Honestly, was it rejected because someone doesn't like seeing a female superhero with Power? Doubtfull. Powerful User, is what i'm conveying, if they use this plugin. ;)

    I blocked out names if that's what you're concerned about. No one will be scrutinized at Unity's support.

    Come on people... It feels like you're reaching for straws... :p
    Anyone can try the Plugin, its freely available from Here.

    Can you think of there being anything more specific that stands out as Rejection'able?
    Anything? :(
     
  17. blizzy

    blizzy

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    I'd just go on fixing the issues mentioned to you, then just resubmit. If the picture was offending in any way, they should have told you.
     
  18. Ostwind

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    No, I saw the rejection mails before I commented :). The first guess was just that there were too many things wrong combined and someone hit the reject without specifying reason (since no single template wouldn't fit ;)). There is already 2 (subjective) mentions about the girl and version number. The package contents and documentation improvements were already said by support. Thats at least 3-4 things together.
     
    Dantus likes this.
  19. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    You're probably right. TY.
     
  20. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    I'll keep working on the documentation, but I'm still making changes as its in Beta, so I rather not have to keep rewriting it again and again, if at all possible. :) The Docs are easy to update as it's in a Wiki'ish format. I Could write up a Getting Started PDF, but that's not the same thing I presume. I did included a ReadMe.txt with the .unityPackage that describes what it is and a link to a Getting Started video.

    ShaderForge was in the Same state when the AssetStore allowed it to be put up there.. so this asset shouldn't be rejected either.
     
  21. blizzy

    blizzy

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    Rules change. I don't think there's much fun to be had arguing about them, that's time better spent making your asset better :)
     
  22. Kiwasi

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    You also need a strong point of difference from the built in UI tools.
     
  23. IzzySoft

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    Points of Difference. Googling now. :)

    "The Points of Difference (PODs) are then the specific attributes of your brand that differ from your competitors."

    Hehe... Yea.. I'll make a list After i've added the rest of my features, when nearing a Stable release version.

    Plus, I havent used ANY of the other UI's, besides the unity immediate mode gui.
    I'm trying Not to be influenced by them and actually make something that I would Want to use, and not make something thats just Different from the rest. Thats very important to me.
    1st GOOD, and if by chance it has some different features, Awesome. ;)
     
  24. Senshi

    Senshi

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    A little off-topic, but this is a really bad idea for multiple reasons. For one, knowing your competition is very important, as it can point out strengths and weaknesses in other products. Perhaps UI X has a really strong way of handling anchors, but lacks in scalability. But then UI Y solves that problem in a way that has potential, but could be done better (by you). Also, it's nice to have an answer when somebody asks you: "Why should I use your product over Unity's?". "I don't know" really does not give me any confidence or motivation to try it out whatsoever.

    Most importantly though, if you never tried any other UIs, how do you know you're not reinventing the wheel? You've been working on this for a couple of months already, right? It would suck majorly if after all that work it turns out all you really wanted was a simple modification or extenion of the built-in system, which would've only taken you three weeks e.g., while also being compatible with eveyone else's existing projects.

    Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I would really, really urge you to reconsider this position ASAP.
     
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  25. IzzySoft

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    Haha.. Thats actually a double edged sword. If I learn what the others can do, I would have to emulate them and Then make it better... all i did then is make it easy for them to Add the same functionality they they were missing and we both now have the Exact same features. Each of us bumps down the price week after week, till its Almost free, or just FREE!
    FAIL! :(

    No. No. That is not the best approach. I understand you want me to emulate Microsoft and copy what others do and try to make it a little better, but in this regard I rather have a unique product that reflects my style, even if it never places at the top. That's a secondary concern. It's more important to me that my UI touches the hearts of a select few, than just feeling Ok to the majority. :)

    I know, that doesn't make business sense, but that's who I am. Artistic side of me. :(
    I guess I'm designing this to mostly appeal to Designers 1st. I want them to find it very Enjoyable to not only create a nice interface, but also find if very Enjoyable Making Them too. I better stop or i'll sound a like an art snob. ;D
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
  26. Senshi

    Senshi

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    Why do you have to emulate whatever you find? You can go a whole 'nother route if you so wish, but you'll still need to know what's out there. Let's say you were making a game engine for instance. If you don't know how Unity, UDK and Source do things and what they offer, you can't really make a good competitor. If nothing else, you'll need to know what makes your product superior. But also, they can insprire you. Maybe UDK has a great visual scripting experience, but Unity's Component system is just super easy to use, and Source's way of dealing with particles - brilliant![1] So you can then incorporate - not emulate - those strengths into your unique design. Maybe your engine will be entirely node-based, with dynamic Node Slots (Components) or something.

    And yes, products improve by looking at the competition, but not so directly. Just look at how many UI solutions already exist today. Most of them will have the same set of core features, but not all of them have the exact same feature-set, in part because feature X might make sense for addon X's workflow, but not for addon Y's.

    That's not what I'm saying at all. But for all you know you might be building an inferior version of the new UI system which already does most of what you want. Writing a single "TextSlider" or "LimititedCheckboxGroup" component would then have been easier, faster and more cost-effective than writing an entire UI solution from the ground up.

    As for wanting people to find your product enjoyable; unless you have some paradigm-shifting ideas, that will require some amount of familiarity and recognition. With every UI package I use I expect there to be an "Image" class for example. If you suddenly then call them "Pictures", I would be momentarily lost and frustrated. If every UI solution lets me add "normal", "hover" and "down" states with ease, but yours wouldn't, I would feel frustrated.

    Steam got away with their "flower" input design[2], because it's brilliant and easy-to-use. Prior to that though, almost everyone used some form of QWERTY or T9 emulation, because it was proven to work and familiar.

    Now of course, if you're just doing this because you wanted to make a UI system for the heck of it, then by all means! I just got the impression that you hoped/ expected this to become a widely-bought product a la NGUI, hence my advice.

    If you are hoping to make a living off of this though, I'm afraid you really will have to "supress" your artistic side just a little bit. This isn't like making an artpiece where you want to avoid outside influences as much as possible (and even then you might want to look up some references), this is more like making a commercial commission for someone who already has an OC that you need to take note of.

    Just my $0.02. =) Best of luck!

    [1] This is made up; I have no idea if those engines handle those things nicely
    [2] http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ynanc1qocy1jpg/original.jpg
     
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  27. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Hmmm... Just like cars? ;D
    I do admit, someday.. Feature-Sets might be looked at, but I'm not ready for that. I have many more of my own ideas that i'm working on still. :) Eventually, many will be copying my work, not the other way. ;D

    Even with the Asset Store not accepting my plugin, I still don't feel like it was a waste of time. A few years ago I had this overwhelming need to learn about 3D, but life got in the way. I Finally got the chance to fulfill my needs, so I've actually hit one of my life goals. :)

    My UI plugin is still in beta, but super stable. So, I wanted to reach the 1st phase before reaching out to other developers. Its a long road to completion, if it ever gets complete. I was led to believe that the Asset Store would accept any plugin that was functional/stable, even if it didn't have every feature the competitors did, so I was a little bit surprised with the rejection response from the Asset Store.

    I'm not expecting to get any funds out of this plugin as it is. Perhaps once it reaches Version 1.0 ;)
    Until then, all i wanted was some feedback while furthering the feature-set that I'm planning.
    I love the feedback you've given me, even if some of it I cannot use yet. ;)
    I very much appreciate it. Thanks.
     
    Senshi likes this.
  28. AndreasU

    AndreasU

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    You should fix the issues the support guy told you about and resubmit it. It's not the end of your asset to get rejected once.
     
  29. IzzySoft

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    I can't complete the Reference Manual for quite a while, and will need to change as the plugins features change. I wonder if a QuickStart guide is what Support was referencing. Thats doable.

    Cover page for the PDF:


    I'm just finishing up some changes (before I resubmit) to the kissImage Pass Through feature.


    Figure 1. Raycast in red is default. Green is 2nd raycast, if user chose the Pass Through kissImage option.

    Basically, a Catch All Image over a number of smaller images that can handle Focus Change, Mouse Wheel scrolling, or any number of other events.. that you want handled by just one set of Handlers. So, in a way, its possible to be pressing, dragging, etc... more than one kissImage located underneath, at the same time, if that's what you want.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  30. Senshi

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    Then I misunderstood, my apologies. =) I'm all for making stuff just for the experience and learning, so carry on then! 0/ Best of luck with your project and your next submission!

    Cheers!
     
  31. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    I just resubmitted with getting started PDF, see here.

     
  32. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Still waiting. :/
     
  33. blizzy

    blizzy

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    Last I heard is that expected waiting time for approval is 14 days.
     
  34. IzzySoft

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    Ohh, there it was. :p

    Darn, I added all this stuff Support mentioned. *head scratches* :[
    Any other suggestions? Plz! :p
     
  35. blizzy

    blizzy

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    You could always ask why.
     
  36. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    No I wont ask Support.
    I want an answer from the Asset Store team now. How to do it is what i want to know. :{
    Is there a way to get a Checklist of things that my asset Failed to Pass on?
    I want that checklist. :<
     
  37. RakeshPrakesh

    RakeshPrakesh

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    Based on your video I don't see anything that couldn't have just been implemented as an extension to the new UI, which would have been a way better idea.

    In the past it made sense to develop new UI systems, but the new Unity UI is simply great, and unless you plan to write something completely different there's basically no point in making it.

    Ultimately, even if you had great marketing material, tutorials, got accepted, etc, I doubt you'd be able to sell many copies, and Unity doesn't want to clutter their store with stuff that won't sell. So I personally think it would be a waste of time continuing to develop this as a commercial venture.

    You can keep pestering them for specifics of course, but most companies would avoid doing so to avoid any legal issues. From what I've seen they do give you specifics if there's only a few small issues, but the responses you've got so far pretty much indicate you're far from the mark.
     
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  38. IzzySoft

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    This was started way before Unity 4.6, the new UI for Unity.

    Passion Project... still would have done it. I cannot follow that advice, contradicts my stance. Don't bother repeating it.

    I will keep trying to find out any details, and keep working on it still, and resubmitting every few milestones. I really like how kissUI is progressing... and I haven't even started on the Theming portion yet.

    Man oh Man, now i'm psyche'd even more, and want to make kissUI even nicer. :)

    Thanks for the feedback, its appreciated... even if I cant use it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  39. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Yeah, but its being approved post 4.6. As I mentioned before, you need to have some clear difference or point of advantage over the 4.6 UI. Otherwise no one is going to purchase your product.

    Have you even checked out the 4.6 UI yet?
     
  40. IzzySoft

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    I saw a video or two of it from YouTube. Looks Ok.

    Hmm.. kissUI tries to use allot fewer components, but for Unity UI, as you start to make a multi level deep windows in Unity UI, it might get very slow. (i have not tested it, just an educated guess)
    I made a WebPlayer Demo of a Windows Desktop (click Here to see it) that shows how good kissUI can run even though there are many kiss Objects in the hierarchy.
     
  41. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    You can still sell it by making a thread in the assets forum. It doesn't necessarily need to be on asset store. I like some of the ideas you have but think the UI is a bit too colourful.

    If I am honest, I do not think this is going to be a must-have product for most people. There is nothing wrong with your work, it's just it doesn't provide enough of a difference over unity's built in UI.
     
  42. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    I figured a few people might not like using the same colors as I do, so users can change them from the preferences.
    Not a big deal. ;)


    It will take about 3 years for me to make it better than Unity's UI... since I'm taking it slow and steady.

    Honestly, I don't care if its better than Unity's UI, because I'm holding kissUI to my own standards. I'll rework the design many times if it means I think its better. I know its still early to be sold, so thats why its in Beta. I just wanted allot of user feedback as I continue to work on it. And ShaderForge was able to do that brilliantly. Thats what I want as well. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  43. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    I don't think you are going to get a checklist of things to fix. I downloaded it and gave it quick try. to be clear, my feedback is intended to help you better understand what possibly Unity is seeing, but more importantly what a potential user would see. It is not meant to be harsh. Since you haven’t checked other UI systems, hopefully this will help. But you should really look at what the standards are.

    Presentation:
    There are a lot of problems here. As others pointed out, the superhero girl is just unprofessional, and unrelated to a ui tool. The docs border on unreadable due to lack of visual focus and clarity. It may not seem important, but this is a UI tool, strong design/presentation/clarity is expected. If the developer doesn’t show a good grasp of information presentation, it would be hard to assume the tool would.

    That also extends to the examples. The button one looks like a 10 year old mySpace page, the desktop one uses OS skins, and the num pad one is needed as that is an existing tool that doesn't need to be built, especially since it clones the appearance of iOS. In short, the examples do you no favors. No one is going look at them and see something they want, and more importantly, something that would be helpful developing their game. None of the examples are game related. If you are selling a tool to game builders, you should be showing examples that apply.

    The docs site is extremely incomplete and filled with empty pages and dummy text. Considering that your package only contains a dll, and no source, your docs NEED to have a complete API. There is none.

    Additionally, much of the UI for the tool is unreadable with the dark skin.

    Ease of use:
    Virtually everything is much more complex than any existing UI solution. Your Getting Started doc is 12 pages to make a dialog, and that doesn't even cover any functionality. Something to bear in mind is that a lot of Unity users are new to games and development in general. Your tool doesn’t need to be simple, but it at least should be intuitive.

    Some of the flow and terms you use are different than the standard solutions.

    Consider this, Unity is a game engine. As such UI tends to be pretty simple, more often than not, you need buttons. Not always, but pretty core. A good test for any UI tool is how easily you can add a button to the screen and have it do something. Your system doesn't even have a "button" metaphor. Sure you can create buttons by adding states/interactions to images, but that isn't intuitive.

    Look at the uGUI, you just right click on the hierarchy and select UI>Button, and you have a button. Same with nGUI. You should consider that as an optimal target, that is what users are going to expect.

    The usage flow is very abstract, and very easy to break. There should be more integrity checks (or more intuitive flow), clicking on the controls just adds an element wherever you have selected, whether it works there or not. It is really easy to generate errors. Ultimately the editor UI is just walls and walls of controls, all of equal visual importance. From a UX standpoint, it ends up all just being noise.

    Scripting:
    Can I create elements via script? The docs don't have an API. Can I create elements dynamically? What about populating content like lists, scroll panels, etc. You use reflection to send messages from the gameobjects, but is there an event system that I can leverage via code? If any of this exists, it isn't clear or documented.

    Structure/Functionality:
    A lot of problems here. Missing some basic functionality, like sliders, text entry, and other widgets. It works outside the normal Unity workflow doesn't leverage existing tools or methodology. For example if I create a button (type element), and want to use it again, I would normally just duplicate it or make a prefab. Trying to create a prefab and then reinsert it breaks it, as does duplication, and generates errors. How do I duplicate a button? How do I animate panels? If this is possible, it isn’t clear.

    Mobile:
    If I build your buttons demo to my device, the layout is completely different, and the buttons don't work properly. They either aren't clickable or clicking anywhere activates the focused button. And the dropdown doesn't work at all. Not working on mobile is a big problem. Cross platform is key reason people use unity.

    Performance:
    This is probably the single biggest issue. The performance is completely unacceptable. Your button demo alone has hits at 400+ draw calls! Honestly, I am not even sure how to generate that many draw calls for a handful of buttons. The others are over 200 as well. Profiling it, the resources are way out of line for something like this. And the more you interact, the more the resources increase over time. There are some serious issues with memory use and leakage. Additionally the button demo clocks in a 45% of my CPU on device.

    ----
    The most important question you have to ask yourself is : What value does this provide the user? I couldn’t find anything that isn't already in Unity, in fact a lot of critical missing elements. As far as features, if you don't provide something that doesn't exist (or a better way to do it), it doesn't have value.

    Again, not trying to harsh, just providing an assessment. You clearly have done a lot of work, and have done a lot of complex things with the editor. I know you said you haven't looked at other UI tools, but you really need to, especially the built in one. As that is what you are competing against. What you would need to do to make this a valuable tool isn't trivial.

    To summarize, kissUI has a very incomplete set of features that users require, and only a fraction what is already in Unity. The flow is very non-intuitive, overly complex and doesn't leverage expected Unity flow and features (prefabs, etc). It isn't cross platform compatible, and the performance is unacceptable to say the least. And it really doesn't highlight anything that would make it useful for games. In short, it not only has no advantage to the builtin system, it is actually detrimental to developing games. Unity would be doing a great disservice to users making this available in asset store.

    Take a good long look at the UnityUi (and others), and find some areas where you can leverage your skill set to improve existing elements or add new features. The built in UI is very good, but lots of areas for extension and improvement.

    Given the knowledge and skills you have built up working on this tool, you could create some great additions.

    Best of luck.
    ZG
     
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  44. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Thank you for downloading and giving it a try. ;)

    Yep, its in early Beta, but very stable. Docs and the such will be added as time allows.

    I didn't want to add a Premade Button just yet, but it will be included once i'm happy with the feature of dragging a Hierarchy kiss object onto the kissUI Controls panel/window.

    So.. there will be an area where objects can be dragged from the hierarchy and dropped, and that would create your own Button, Listview, TreeView, Dialogs, Windows... etc...
    Side Note: i think in this release version, i was testing how this would work and made the Text button (in the kiss Controls window) accept a kiss object dragged and dropped onto it, from the Hierarchy. It just prints a Debug .Log entry. Nothing more atm. ;)

    Unity Pro's Dark theme? Not supported yet. I dont have money for Pro.. so it will have to wait... a long time. At least FREE users can have more fun now. :) If Unity allows Asset Store developers, even the devs w/ only Personal edition, to use the Dark skin, then i'll jump right on it. But that's Unity's decision, to change their policy. :[

    As far as performance, even without making a Unity UI version of the Windows Desktop demo example, I can tell it would be much slower, and very difficult, and it would make me want to pull the rest of my hair out if i tried. (thats me just guessing) :< No way you can make it faster than kissUI can, without gimping the experience.

    Thank you for your feedback. I do appreciate it very much. And I'll take most of your suggestions to heart.
    But, I'm not backing off. I like designing tools, and UI's are one area that interests me. ;)

    Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  45. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    That was a pretty intense checklist you provided!
     
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  46. RakeshPrakesh

    RakeshPrakesh

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    You need to do a reality check mate. If you're unemployed and your funds are running low then this isn't the way to fix this. Developing a UI system that doesn't even well implement the things in the current popular UIs do is about as far from what ShaderForge did as you can get.

    You clearly have programming skill, as your editor integration is among the best I've seen. So I think it would be a way better idea to port some of your time saving ideas to the new Unity UI and just release an extension. You could probably do this in a few weeks if you tried hard enough, whereas your project right now just looks like a massive time sink with no potential for a sensible return.

    All your replies so far show that you don't really know when to quit, which is frankly dumb for someone in a situation like you describe. I hope you see the forest before it's too late...
     
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  47. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    No worries. I'll go back to work. 9 to 5. Make some dough. Make sure to spend it wiser. Buy more stuff from the 99 cents store. ;D

    Yea.. kissUI doesn't have all the things I want, Yet! But I think the Hardest part is over, well mostly.

    Wow... I've alway thought of myself as an individual who might see the larger picture before allot of others, and procrastinate on the details. I dont think you understand my motivations, or the kind of person I am, and the things I value. This is more than just making a buck. If money was all i wanted, No way would I waste a minute of my time making a Unity3D Asset like this. Time/Effort/Research/etc... wouldn't yield a good enough of a return.

    This is about Love, of working on something that I truly enjoy, that makes me feel good about myself. And how it might make others feel when they use something I made.

    I was going to use an Overdramatized example of "Take No Prisoners" because it cost too much to feed them (and other expenses), but it's what makes society feel good about themselves.
    Yes I know... I got a chance to watch a few WWII movies just recently. ;) Sowwy! :<
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  48. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    I'm a tool maker as well so I understand the desire to keep doing it. ;)

    Bear in mind, my feedback is based on what I saw in the version you posted, and in response to the topic question. It's much more of an Alpha than a Beta. Hopefully you can understand now why the store rejected it. The asset store is for release versions, not for works in progress. Give it a shot again when feature complete and the problems are fixed.

    As for the performance, ugui is orders of magnitudes more performant. The cpu usage and draws on your demos are higher than small or medium games. I don't if there is a bug, or a design issue, but it is nearly unusable at that level. It may seem like it runs ok on a PC, but once you put it on a game or mobile, it is a huge hit. Open up the profiler or stats, then check a similar set in ugui/ngui/ongui. You'll see a dramatic difference. 200+ draw call is unacceptable, for those demos it should be 5-10 tops. Lower in ngui.

    The desktop demo is pretty straight forward in ugui, you have to write a couple of small methods for the scaling, but nothing complex. But the main thing is that those elements are unusual for game needs. It's not really a good measure or selling point.

    For the dark skin, just don't use custom colors for the elements if dark skin is detected, it'll work fine.

    If I might make a suggestion, given your ability to build complex editor tools, you consider focusing the tool on constructing the more common complex game UI elements, like inventory systems, skill trees, things of that nature. Those are things that people always want and are not trivial to build in current systems.

    Good luck!
     
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  49. IzzySoft

    IzzySoft

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    Yes... allot of what you mentioned is spot on. Well, I cant say i'm in-sync with your Flow assessment though. ;)
    I really like this approach, even if its different than what every other UI has, as you noted. And I hope likeminded people find this approach more satisfying, even if you didn't. ;)

    Only Image and Text work when making a prefab atm. Didnt get very far, but creating an Image with Text as a child, and Dragging the Image to the Project panel creates a Prefab. Then that prefab can be used as a template. Just select a Parent Container from the Hierarchy panel, then drag the prefab from the Project panel into the Hierarchy... TaDaaaa!!! The Image and Text get added and even exist as independent instances automatically, so you can change them without having to stress about any other Images and Text being affected. Which I know.. is Not what Prefabs Excel at, but its doable. ;)

    Performance for mobile isn't done. Using the Desktop Demos also isnt fair to anyone.
    I've done Some work on using Single Plane for Images that are always a Constant Size, that doesn't need to be resizable at runtime.

    And of course its magnitudes faster, but its not ready for unveiling.
    My goal is to allow the Designer/Developer to use the best approach. (for a target platform)*

    As far as the Desktop Demo being done by other GUI being better.... I just.. I can't... No... from the handful of Youtube videos i've seen, I'm hard pressed to believe they can provide the same functionality and be as simple to create. I'm just not sold. One of my goals is to make it possible for corporations to build business applications, like fully working spreadsheet applications with many of the bells and whistles, with kissUI.
    Note: I even stated a few times this version was targeted at Desktop Apps.. Win/Mac*/Linux*/WebPlayer. I'd have to scroll back some, but i remember mentioning that.

    Yes, I know Unity3D wasn't made for those types of applications, but that's where I want to take it, not just for games. Well, unless that game is going for that Desktop App look. ;) (can't see the tree from the forest aye?)

    One gripe i have is not being able to design for the Dark Skin, in the Unity Editor, and be able to preview/see what it looks like. But, that's not on me. As long as there's a way for Pro users to switch to the Light skin, i'll let that sit on a shelf for a while, and try to find a way to include Dark Skins into my Editor customizations later. Does the Asset Store not having a Subscription based payment system count as a gripe? :/

    Maybe its Late Alpha, Early Beta!? ;D
    I was never disillusioned to think it was close to a release version. Correct me if im wrong, but there have been Beta assets in the Asset Store, meaning they were not release versions, right!? (ShaderForge ring a bell?)
    Well, from what I assumed, I could follow ShaderForge's footsteps in that regard. But, I guess some Editor extensions are not treated equal??

    Anyways, I wholeheartedly appreciated the time you took to try out the early beta of kissUI. I give you +10 points! ;)
    Since, All those suggestions were on my ToDo waiting to be implemented, so you've proven to know what's involved. Hehe, I wonder if you spent time thinking about making your own!?! *wink wink, nudge nudge* ;)

    Thanks again for your input.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  50. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Fair enough. ;)
    Performance in general is an issue, it's just more noticeable on mobile. Batching images will help, and there is something eating cpu in the render phase. Nail those and you should be good.

    I guarantee it is. ;). You won't see much reference out there because it's not a common use case. I have an early test I did that is similar, I'll see if I can dig it up on Monday.
    They are not treated equal, because not all are comparable. Shaderforge provides functionality that didn't exist. Even if rough early on, it was something not available. With UI there are a ton of options big and small, including two builtin solutions. If it's not complete, and offers much less than existing products, they have no reason to add it.
    I have done many of them, on many platforms. It's a fair chunk of my job. I'm a tool builder for games professionally. Typically, for UI, vfx and pipeline.

    You have great attitude, and a passion for what you do. That alone will take you far.

    Good luck!