My Thoughts On The Shooter Genre

Personally, I feel that the shooter genre is becoming a bit stale. As in too many military tactical shooters. I feel as if so many look alike to the point I don't want to consider given the military shooter another look. None are going to get better than Call of Duty in my opinion.

Instead...I see the future of shooters going into a post apocalyptic/survival direction, if not that then definitely in the science fiction/sci-fi side of things. Halo, Resistance, Dying Light, Destiny, Titanfall, Left 4 Dead, Dead Island, Call of Duty: Advance Warfare & Tom Clancy's The Division are all good examples of what I mean.
It's fine if the enemies are humans, but I don't want to be shooting other rebel humans all the time. Throw in some infected, maybe even zombies. Hell even some giant overgrown beast (love taking down big enemies). Just give more variety of enemies is all I'm saying. & different world experiences. Because all of the shooters I see & play feel like the last shooter I played. A struggling cycle really.

These are just my thoughts. They may mean something to you...or they may not. But I'm interested in both making & playing others game titles. I'm just not sold on an idea that I've seen elsewhere. Want something different. So am basically encouraging you guys to take risk & try something different for once. Mix it up even.
I may be just one guy, but I know what I want to play no matter the genre of games. Just speaking to the shooter genre right now since that is what's bothering me.

Thanks for reading.

Kube Kebo OUT!! ;0

 

Agree with the fact that "tactical shooters" (cod is not that tactical) are becoming quite stale, but seriously? MORE ZOMBIES? Please no, even though Dying Light did it nicely.

 

I'm a massive fan of Metro 2033 and last light, Fallout was great as well.. Never got into COD..

 

I don't mind the endless rip offs. Some of them do a good job and are available rather cheap

The direction of first person games in general could change drastically if VR goes anywhere. There's a few different oculus-like devices out now that function pretty well. There's a few motion controls out now that appear to function reasonably well. If you combine some of these things, say... the sixense stem system, the virtuix omni and an oculus (or other headset), you can see and interact with a 3d world physically. Then if you add in variants of that other monstrosity that is a vest that puts pressure on your body where things are hitting you, say maybe have something like that all over your body, you could really be inside a virtual world lol.

Or you could just take a nap... but yea, VR is probably going to change the market completely or at least open a niche market. Some people are already blown away by games that only make use of an oculus lol. Being able to actually interact with things should be vastly more entertaining.

 

I definitely agree. Been burnt out on FPS games for years. A lot of people seem to want to make a FPS. I just don't understand why. I mean why make them if they are all almost identical to AAA FPS shooters (which also seem to be basically copies of each other)? It doesn't make any sense. I can definitely understand people wanting to make a FPS in general because there is a lot of potential. All kinds of things could be done to make them different. But none of it ever seems to be done. The games seem to all share the same basic level of interaction. Basically the same environments. Same challenges. As you said they even look nearly identical. It makes me wonder if people just can't come up with any ideas or if they all just set out to clone some specific AAA FPS game. Cloning is good for learning but when it comes down to playing.... why not just play the existing AAA FPS games. It's what most of the players will be doing. If you are going to make your own FPS game you plan on releasing then... you know... have an actual reason for doing it beyond "I want to make a FPS game". Something like "in my game upgradable gear is extremely important and allows very distinct play styles" or "my game will have a huge emphasis on vehicles on land, air and water" or "my game combines FPS with RPG adventure elements" and so forth. At least there would be a purpose for the game to exist. It can provide some unique game play experience if the game is built entirely around their reason for building one.

 

There are two facts

1. America is a dominant market both for producing and consuming video games
2. American culture is obsessed with guns

As long as these two things remain fact the FPS will continue to be a dominant game genre.

 

Ha ha ha! We are not obsessed with guns. Most people think very little about guns or having guns. Sure many people have large collections of guns but really it is no different than them having a good size collection of butter knives. The guns don't insult anyone. They don't jump out of their locked case and leave. My cousin has a good collection of guns for example. As hard as it may be to believe based on the government propaganda... those guns really do nothing until he takes one out for target practice or to go hunting. It is mainly certain people (mainly those in power) keep pushing to get rid of the guns. Gun control. And so forth. Because they are too idiotic to realize that much like drugs and other things when you ban something the only people who will posses it are the criminals/psychos and so forth. The very people that cause these leaders and other people to want to get rid of the guns. And the government trying to push that causes Americans to get very ticked off because it is our right to keep and bear arms. So it is not an obsession with guns it is the other groups obsession with their misguided thinking that taking away the guns is the answer.

A couple months ago I posted the following on my Facebook account. I think it basically sums it up:

I think we really need to start some new movements. Based in concept on Gun Control. Let's start with Spoon Control. It seems to me that beyond eating soup these spoons are generally used only to consume puddings and ice cream. Clearly spoons are the real reason for obesity in America. We gotta lock these spoons down. Every spoon owner should be required to take a full inventory of their spoon collection and register them. Of course, we can hardly place all of the blame on spoons. The trusty fork has taken its fair share of cakes and other fattening food. Let's do Fork Control as well! Who's with me?

 

If games were based on any American obsession with guns, they'd be hunting games. But the media sure does like to push an agenda. Interestingly, gun ownership has gone way up at the same time crime has dropped to historic lows. And crime dropped in Chicago after gun laws were liberalized. The notion that we all want to run around shooting each other is pure fabrication. But it sure does get votes.

 

Okay, so the obsession comment was probably a bit much. But the idea of guns is still a part of American culture. The idea that the civilian population needs to be armed to prevent government corruption is a distinctly American idea. The idea that the people should have the freedom to bear arms is a distinctly American idea. The association of guns with freedom is American. Most other countries in the world take gun control for granted. Very few (if any) countries outside of America believe the solution to gun violence is more guns.

Not interested in getting into the debate of right or wrong here, or the merits of gun control versus spoon control. (High taxes on foods with high fat or sugar content is a thing, so essentially spoon control). I'm simply stating that the gun (or the idea of the gun) is an aspect of American culture that is probably behind the success of the continued FPS game. Because of this the FPS is here to stay.

 

@KeBo thanks for your input, it's good to know what other games like/dislike.

Guys, lets not derail this thread. @GarBenjamin, as much as I agree with you, I don't want the same thing to happen to this thread that happened over here about a week ago.

 

Yes, let's not get @KeBo 's thread locked. Back on topic, I don't think the already over saturated zombie or otherwise apocalyptic genre is going to be the saving grace of FPS. It'd be nice to have more aliens like Halo, or demons like Doom. Nobody is going to complain about killing demons. Well, that's not true. Some people made a big fuss about the demons in Doom back in the day. But I think they thought the demons were the good guys or something.

 

Hey no problem. I understand that completely.

Anyway, yeah let's get back to the FPS thing. I have posted my views on these games so many times on these forums people are probably tired of them or me or both. lol

Maybe what we could do is figure out how to actually make a good FPS that does not look and play like all of the others?

 

Sorry, my fault. I'll be quiet on my personal obsessions

Ultimately games are a form of art. Art reflects what is currently happening in society. Apocalypse themes come out of a society that's worried about the potential devastation of something like a nuclear war, or perhaps global warming, or the potential of science to mess things up dramatically.

If you want something different its worth seeking out some aspect of current culture that is prominent, but hasn't been explored yet.

 

All the mass shootings, massacres and tumblr feminists in the world couldn't change those facts.

I'm glad I haven't had the displeasure of meeting any open carry people yet. But yea, that's a thing in some states. Warning shots are legal in florida. And this:



I may not be obsessed with guns. You may not be obsessed with guns. But it's probably safe to say that in general America is pretty obsessed with guns.

It doesn't matter how many little kids (8 and below) blow the brains out of the geniuses trying to show them how to shoot automatic weapons or how many toddlers accidentally kill their parents. The solution is always less regulation and more guns. Because freedom means that every living person with the strength to pull a trigger should be able to single handedly wipe out a neighborhood or campus, or else no one can feel safe.

Back on topic...

VR hunting. Will it appeal to other countries?

 

Hunting games have never really appealed to me. But I'd certainly try a AAA VR FPS. Assuming one of my mates forked out for the hardware. Just because the games are a reflection of American culture doesn't make them bad. After all, I eat fast food all the time, which is another great product of American culture.

 

VR costs aren't too bad unless you really want all of the hardware lol. There's even a VR vest now that puts pressure on you to simulate things touching you in the game world. I feel something like that will make people who like shooters like them more rather than attract more people. But casual VR stuff like bowling, hunting, shooting laser from your fingertips like that dream you had that one time... that's all stuff that could draw in more people. Maybe instead of zombies, the next release of call of duty will feature bowling with your squad mates. Some people bought cod5 solely for zombies, I am pretty sure people would buy cod 17 just for bowling

I'm quite partial to grease trucks myself. Funny name for a place where you can get vegan foods or actually decent grilled chicken with salad and rice for only $5.50. Eating there every day made my freshman 15 more like a freshman 2, since the food was good but the portions were large.

I try not to be hard on America, I mean it is run by humans... and not even the good kind. The world would be a better place if American politicians were replaced by Unity forum moderators.

--edit

unintentionally used the numbers 2, 15 and 17. 2+15=17. Illuminati!!

 

You should watch the movie Super Size Me. I highly doubt that fast food is a great cultural achievement.

 

Great in the sense of good, probably no.

Great in the sense that it has changed the lives of people all over the world, probably yes.

 

Nope, FPS is popular cause it's the simplest form of video game competition. Simple and fun to play yet lots of possibilities for great moments. Same reasons why soccer is most popular sport in the world.

 

Ever see 'Sicko'? It's an even more shocking movie about products of American culture. That one specifically covers health insurance

I think Africa could use it the most. The private water industry is already there giving them jobs (barely anything, but something!) so all they need now is cheap access to food.

So would a first person soccer video game sell more than call of duty?

 

If the soccer balls auto-replenished and blew up on impact with proper use of gibs... perhaps.

 

Let's put Michael Bay on it with a budget of $2,000,000,000.

 

Bah. Back in my day, all we had to shoot were nazi's. And the last thing anyone was going to say was that they were tired of shooting nazi's, because that would have clearly meant you were a nazi.

Well there is always dodge ball

 

Welcome & interesting thread this became. Don't think I need to say more than what I already have. But I enjoyed everyone's opinion. Thanks!

 

For me having a gun would be a no-no, don't know how to use them, only like them in games. There's a huge battery of measures I can think of if I want to protect myself, before I decide to buy a gun.
But I like being objective, and even if I don't blindly believe statistics (studies may be flawed or misinterpreted) they're generally good guidelines.
I remember reading about some statistics that suggest a relation between gun ownership and suicide rates. Apparently gun ownership increases suicide rates a lot. Apparently in the US, in 2010, 60% of gun deaths were suicides. So suicides might be a bigger problem than homicides and accidental deaths.

Yet, one reason I would be willing believe it's possible for citizens to own guns and still be responsible and have low crime rates, is Switzerland. If I've read correctly, every citizen is not just allowed, but obligated to keep the military rifle they're trained for in mandatory military service. Switzerland is among the most secure places in the world.

According to some US 2010 data, around 6000 deaths were caused by handguns. Compared to data of the same year, five times that many people died in car accidents alone. You can say that cars serve a better purpose than guns, if you think gun's purpose is killing. You can also believe guns are a form of prevention, without killing (warning shots) and scaring an intruder.
But that aside, both car and gun deaths are overshadowed by deaths related to tobacco 480,000 in 2009 (lung cancer, cardiovascular, respiratory, etc) 80 times more than handgun deaths, it's probably that much more important to ban cigarettes than handguns.
We coexist with many dangerous things... (electricity, gas ovens, medicine, etc ) we just don't think about it.

Not saying guns are not a problem, but because guns have such terrible connotations, it's good to put things into perspective, measure it outside emotion.

 

You make some good points except for:

Suicides and homicides are both problems, but the logic behind guns increasing suicides doesn't quite make sense. Given that 60% of gun deaths were suicides, it doesn't logically follow that "gun ownership increases suicides a lot." If someone wants to commit suicide, they're going to do it - their weapon/method of choice doesn't really have an impact on that.

 

If people want to off themselves, they don't need a gun. It's probably just easier than other methods. Whether people have guns or not doesn't play much into violence IMO. It's more a lack of education/finance thing. When people feel that violence is their best path to success, it's the path they will probably take.

Returning to the OP, the FPS genre has been stale as long I can remember there being one. Titanfall seemed like a likely candidate for innovation on the genre. Sadly I'll need to buy a HDD for my Xbox before I can play the copy I purchased. Why I can't use a solid state device like a flash drive instead of an analog device i'll never understand.

 

Just like violent people are going to commit violence no matter what they get their hands on. All guns do is raise the potential number of victims / raise the number of uninvolved casualties. Escalating the technology in use never does anything other than raise the number of people a single person can kill / increase the number of casualties.

Fists -> knives -> guns -> explosives -> ?

Quite the rise in lethality and casualties. Who knows what's going to happen if we ever come up with something more destructive than explosives...

Agreed. Any species willing to wage war should be educated / annihilated

They need a selling point for the xbox 2 lol

 

I'm tempted to not buy it out of spite. But that seems childish...

BTW, I can't look at your avatar and not crack a smile.

 

The adult version of not buying something out of spite for bad business practices is boycotting. What's nice is that the buzzword 'boycott' will get other people to not buy it, thus your inner spite is pleased by costing them even more business!

I don't know if I can ever change this avatar. How can James Franco do that and still be more handsome than any other life form will ever be? It's a marvelous joke of life.

 

The FPS genre had a great time back in the 90s when shooting was just a part of a much larger game idea. A way to protect yourself whilst making your way through the engaging stories, atmospheres, and environments the game provided. The games were engaging in ways far beyond simply pulling a trigger to proceed. Even the original 'Counter Strike' (which I was really, really good at, by the way!) had a ton of shooting, but it was engaging. It was tactical. It was exciting. It was different (at the time). It was awesome.

These days in most FPS games the shooting is the game. Shoot people to proceed. Tactics and planning and cunning and... waiting... have gone out the window. Everything is a test of how quickly you can aim and press the trigger, and in the larger games like COD, you don't even have to aim. FPS games have become reflex button pushers filled with quick time events to move the story along. A classic game mechanic considering games like 'Dragon's Lair', but not necessarily one that belongs in an FPS.

Bring back the stories. Bring back the big ideas. Bring back the tactics. Bring back the imagination. And yeah, keep the shooting along with it. But do something. Because yes indeed the FPS genre is as stale as can be, but for some reason people keep buying into it.

 

My biggest frustration playing FPS game online is the game play is either brutally rigid (like Counter Strike) where it comes down to a twitching contest.

Or it's all over the place, turing into a shapeless glob (like Team Fortress 2 after it went F2P) and the real contest is who can care the least about winning.

Why can't there be some middle ground? Why can't we get some wiggle room between skill and chance without landsliding to one or the other end of the spectrum?

Personally, I think an FPS moba would work great for this. Casual players could thin the other teams bots, gather materials, and work on defenses. While competitive players can hunt down casuals, invade the other team's base, or jump into large scrimmages. Win-win.

 

I agree with Ony regarding Counter Strike. I was also very good at that game and played it a considerable number of hours online. The game tactics were amazing. Anybody who thinks Counter Strike is just a measure of reflexes has failed to understand the tactical side of the game.

Another all time favorite of mine is Descent (and Descent 2). I loved that FPS game in both single player and multi-player modes. I used to play very competitively on the Descent ladder using IPX->TCP tech like Kali and lining up matches in IRC.

Games like Call of Duty and Battlefield have largely failed the genre. I am so tired of boring story lines where you are playing as a total bad ass, but you need to complete a boring tutorial level at the beginning of the game. I am sick of listening to NPCs in modern FPS games give me hollow compliments for every trivial thing I do while I play. For example, in Battlefield 4, I must have heard one NPC yell "Good shot, Recker!" at least a hundred times while that NPC hid behind cover firing wildly without hitting hardly any of the enemy NPCs. I am sick of levels where there are intentional story line choke points, where you need to go to a door and press 'E' to continue and the 'team' waits for you to get to the door to hit 'E' to continue. Or worse yet, the doors that are stuck and you need to hit 'E' several times to open them. All of the immersion gained from years of graphics improvements throughout the genre is lost in an instant with tired gameplay designs like that.

The YouTube video of what Doom would be like if it were made today is the gold standard for everything that is wrong in the FPS genre today.

Play the latest Battlefield or Call of Duty games after watching the video about how bad Doom would be if it were made today, and it is obvious what some of the flaws are. Even seemingly little things like nagging the player to go back to an approved battlefield area instead of being allowed to openly explore the level is an immersion killer.

I hate to sound like the old man talking about how great things were back in the good old days, but I really think it is true of the FPS genre. By trying to nerf the gameplay and force the storyline through obvious chokepoints, the FPS genre has lost something that it used to have.

 

@Ony making shooting not the main focus... I feel a little dumb for not considering that. In fact, I initially purchased cod4 because of how good looking the reload animations were lol. Usually in a shooting game, it's all shooting. Probably because I grew up with COD3 and the war game mode which was matches of 1hour+ in length, averaging 200+ kills each round... that was the good call of duty

it was on console, so it had online split screen multiplayer... yet somehow it also had a server browser and host migration! Best call of duty ever. Most vehicles in a call of duty game to date Longest matches, most fun, most kills, best perks (airstrike was basically a perk, resupplying ammo was a perk, etc). The perks kinda worked more like battlefield class perks do!

 

I think VR should give it a good reboot, personally a Battlefield fan and interested to see what they do with their Hardline variation on the FPS.

And think how much more of a workout you could get if you used one of those VR running boards/frames in a cover shooter or using HTC Valves Vive in a 4.5m cube. Where you have to adopt the poses in the game.

 

Way off topic here, but I think this is the problem with the current generation of VR machines. No one wants a work out while playing hard core games. Maybe VR will take off when it's only used as a display, and we keep traditional controllers.

Back on topic my favourite FPS game is still Star Wars Battle Front. The game was a tactical FPS. Sure, straight kill counts helped, but it wasn't all you needed to win. You also had to kill the right enemies in the right places. You were also just one regular soldier among many, which made the game less about being the awesome super soldier. You could win with more deaths then kills, if you did it in the right place.

 

@BoredMormon I actually look forward to having a full body motion controller. so instead of having the game limit your energy / mana / stamina, your stamina would be the limit. What a way to immerse in a fantasy world than to have your physical improvements be reflected in the game world!

Real life doesn't stand a chance. We're all going to abandon it for VR and then die of starvation.

 

Lol. I hate this idea. Its the end of the pasty white guy dominating the genre. As an individual that fits into pretty much every nerd stereotype this would be the death of video gaming for me.

 

I'm with @Tomnnn. I don't think virtual reality would be very real if I was sitting down while my character was running.

 

I don't think VR can or will save the FPS genre. The problem currently facing the FPS genre is not the lack of tech. After all, some of the FPS games of the 90's were vastly more fun to play than Call of Duty, Battlefield, and TitanFall. The old games did not have anywhere near today's graphics, but the old games were still more fun to play. Improving the graphics even more or adding VR support is not enough. I would rather play the original Doom than most of the modern FPS games. I would definitely still prefer any version of Counter Strike over TitanFall, even if they added VR support to TitanFall.

If the same tired gameplay is moved to VR, it will still feel stale. Things like poor AI in friendly NPCs will still break immersion. Starting a self destruct countdown each time a player tries to explore off the linear path or designated area will still break immersion. VR won't/can't fix immersion breaking game design flaws.

In single player games, obvious gameplay chokepoints (used to force a linear story upon the user) will still break immersion. Having a dumb NPC yelling "put your back into it" as I hit 'E' over and over is completely lame, but that boring gameplay design has landed in far too many modern FPS games. Adding VR to that experience cannot suddenly make it feel fun. Heck, adding VR and asking me to lift the corner of my desk up in the air is not going to save it. It is an immersion breaking gameplay design regardless of tech or real world physical interaction.

 

From the additional exercise perspective I would find it cool but it wouldn't really be a real video game any more. I agree with @BoredMormon on the idea of just using normal controllers. Although I'd say this is the issue with all games in general. This obsession with trying to make them more and more realistic instead of being obsessed with making an awesome game. Somewhere along the way I think game designers lost their way and, for whatever reason (probably immersion) decided reality equals awesome game.

On one hand it sounds cool playing a FPS and running around in your living room ducking and dodging exchanging fire with enemies. Or swinging a sword, blocking with a shield and so forth in an RPG. But... in reality I think it kind of creates a disconnect and ruins a game. Video games originally let you experience things you could never experience in real life. The more they try to bring reality into games the less cool they will be compared to real life. If the time comes when your performance in a game is determined by your real world coordination, balance, reflexes, mastery of motion techniques and stamina it will make more sense to me to just turn off the game and play laser tag or paintball or even football, take a hike or whatever.

 

I think the term were looking for is the emergence of VR sports and athletics. The same way there are RTS 'sports' for people who can type hundreds of RTS commands per minute.

So VR game should have 'reality' settings!

 

I'm sure they will. I can't imagine them forcing you to use full body motion capture if you don't want to. The prohibitive cost shrinking the market size being the least of the reasons why. It's too trivial for them add regular gamepad controls for them not to allow the option.

 

You don't think it'd be worth the effort to actually strangle your foes with your hands? Imagine all those screaming children on xbox live. The spoiled kids get the nice toys -> spoiled kids all get VR -> you get to strangle spoiled kids and other rude people in VR with your hands!

I like the sixense stem demo of the guy using multiple sensors to read his full body so he could do pushups in VR lol.

 

You have a point there could be an amazing regeneration of the unarmed combat genre. Imagine street fighter where you have to pull off a physical move to trigger the in game move.

I would expect there will be leagues, with levels of reality.

Haptic feedback is an issue in unarmed combat or even melee combat sword fighting would be a problem as no feedback on hits, blocks, holds and locks.

 

@Arowx the stem system has basic feedback for the hands, but there's also this, which could be developed more in the future to cover other limbs

 

That's why I play Metroid Prime!
It's a unique type, of Adventure FPS, that literally stands out from the crowd!
And made by Retro Studios and the Big N themselves!!

 

In the last decade (yes, decade) I played with:
- Battlefield 1942 (best FPS ever)
- Hidden and Dangerous 1 (not really a "full" FPS)
- Farcry 1.
- Farcry 3.
And "bouncy stuff" (vertical gameplay) is not for me.

 

I agree in some ways with the OP. AAA FPS titles have become very stale. I found Battlefield 3, and now 4 to be extremely frustrating and boring. Not a thing comes to mind when I think of fun times in either game. I thought flying jets would be fun but then there's those brutal assholes who shoot you down like they put in 3 days in hours of play every week. The thing is that's what lots of people do. They just don't give the other team a chance to win, and it isn't fun for either side honestly, unless they are a sadistic asshole.

If the biggest innovation your game includes is a flashlight/laser attachment for your gun, and every gun actually shoots exactly the same only with different stat values; you're doing it wrong!

I for one, and I think that's what lots of people are saying here is wish there were more creativity in this industry and this particular genre. Titanfall is very innovative, I still play it, and to me its always a friggin' blast! Capture the Flag is the best game mode ever invented imo, and Halo and Titanfall are perfect for it. I can't say I've had as much fun (or been as inspired) in any game in years until I discovered Titanfalls' CTF game type!


But what gets me, really gets me, is these Unity projects which are so complete, with high quality art assets and spit and polish to rival AAA games with multimillion dollar budgets. The only problem with these games is they are almost completely a clone of another game like Call of Duty, Everquest, or some other uber popular game.

Its pretty astounding to me the level of similarity in these clones. I don't know why they do it! With such skill it wouldn't be difficult to create something truly creative and/or successful!

Ugh.