My game concept, and general development banter(coming from a skeptic)

It takes a lot of effort to sort of "figure out" the architecture that you build inside of the editor. But once you already understand that architecture I think its absolutely plausible to begin working with copy/paste hierarchies to make your own content. Game development is the compiling of graphics/scripts/assets inside of an editor followed by the creation and distribution of applications to run the game on a server in tandem with a database and website. I believe it can be done mathematically one step at a time. Game development can be done modularly(based on templates) and in a scientific fashion.

I think content creation should be limitless(that's my main point). If you wanted to make content from an existing hierarchy for anything in my content creation outline you could. You would just need to edit scripts a little and import graphics. As well as construct everything from the template correctly.

I'm never going to learn to program games. The reason I'm never going to learn is because I would need someone to show me exactly how to do what I want to do step by step from scratch. Meaning that there would need to be some sort of community that would share my views to the tee.

My main views are that:

1. 2000 total hours from an individual not a team is plenty of time to create an MMO worthy of playing.

2. There is absolutely no limit to how much content you can create. Content can be created via
copy/paste hierarchies and modifying scripts and importing graphics.

I would love to be able to put together a few things inside an editor and build a nice little game application. But what I want is obviously very complicated. A huge game with tons of features.

My game concept ...(http://pastebin.com/1sKbiYp0)...

Everyone on the internet says making an MMO requires a large team. Taking a multiplayer FPS and adding MMO features(equipment, leveling etc) then making it run on a larger server and connect to more clients and save their progress is possible for an individual. I believe someone could demonstrate the foundation for a FPSMMO inside of an editor in a few hours... especially if they already had everything built and they were just trying to show you how to make content.

I think it would be very interesting to see companies release project files for games. You could begin creating content with the help of a video. I don't think you should have to read the manual, or use youtube and forums. I think there should be official tutorials(from the engine company) showing you how to create content and distribute and run clones of games.

Building the game mechanics will be a difficult task. The client/server/database/website relationship has to work. The physics and AI have to be good. The auctionhouse, trading, and mailbox all have to work. The criminal system and city takeover system have to work. As do all of the classes, equipment, monsters, guards, and loot nodes.

Once the architecture for the whole game is done it should be very easy to add content. I'll list literally the only content you could possibly create for my game concept. Granted its still a lot... and creating enough content for this game to be good would take some work.

Content creation outline ...(http://pastebin.com/XhLekZZC)...

Two more pastes that are part of this document
...(http://pastebin.com/FHVd6RSg)...
...(http://pastebin.com/fxvzBF7N)...

For a much simpler project, I wanted to make models for characters and skin them to bones and make simple animation clips with move/rotate keyframes. Then make a simple multiplayer shooter based off of character controllers and projectiles and individually triggered animation clips. Then add simple MMO features.

But everyone says that multiplayer is amazingly complex. If I already know how to code a character in unity shooting projectiles... then what is so amazingly complex about doing this on a server? It is such bullcrap that no matter what your idea is, even if its ridiculously simple, the people on the forums lie that its "complex" just because its multiplayer. I'm sure they could tell you in 20 minutes how to make a simple server.

Everyone tells you it takes years to learn. While I think all you need is project files, game making software, 3d design software, and official(from the software company) tutorial videos. But whenever I mention official comprehensive tutorial videos... people say that they would have to be 1000 hours long in order to teach you everything... so they therefore don't exist. So what does that mean... in order for someone to teach you how to make an MMO they would need your attention full time(40 hours) for six months?

There is nothing amazingly complex about an inventory/class/ability system with scripts and a database in client/server format. There is nothing complex about character controllers with projectiles and collision. Nor anything complex about models animated with keyframe clips. A game could easily be made and with very expansive content using just the limited features in this paragraph. I even think it would be fun with thousands of players. But, it would still take 2000 hours to produce... regardless, the mechanics could be built in a matter of hours.

And even if everything in the previous paragraph has elements of complexity... there are tons of people who would know exactly how to put it together.

Technology is amazingly difficult to manufacture, but is easy enough to use. I believe the games can be put together quickly. Personally I don't even think 2000 hours is fast... but everyone on game dev forums thinks its ridiculously fast. The notion that there are actually dedicated hobbyists and professionals on these forums willing to spend years on games much much less complex than an MMO is insane. Who would want to work in this field if even a professional who is supposed to know exactly what he's doing can't even put together a simple MMO? A simple MMO would be one without AI, physics beyond character controllers and projectiles, or animation beyond individually triggered clips.

Additional pastes about this document
...(http://pastebin.com/eNgyhXHz)...
...(http://pastebin.com/UiG7cryr)...

Two other important points that are so important I decided to separate them:
1. You can not download an MMOFPS project and learn to make content for it with step by step instructions.
2. The majority of the work is graphics and everything else is theoretical.

One last paste
...(http://pastebin.com/f4n80UMR)...

I simply do not believe that MMO's with expansive content are complicated.

 

That's some pretty mind blowing stuff that you've written there. This thread should be interesting................

 

If only I was smart enough to start my own project.

 

Have you ever given serious thought to the fact that life itself might be an MMO, except in this MMO the "O" stands for "Offline"? Hmmm...

 

Easily more said than done.

 

Wuuut...?

I really hope this is a troll

 

Start small. Build something very simple in order to learn the basics of game development. Take the time to learn how to program. Don't assume that game development is easy and everybody is simply lying about how much work it requires.

Build a simple game like Pong. Then convert into multiplayer Pong, so two people can play pong with each other online. It sounds very simple and very boring, but even a very simple example like this will expose you to the complexities of game development.

 

If everyone is saying the same thing, and they have the knowledge and you have already stated you don't, then it is pretty obvious that your perceptions are probably wrong. You are not going to get help from anyone by telling them they are wrong and you know better. And the whole idea that there is a conspiracy just doesn't fly. There is no part of the game industry that is that organized make a conspiracy work.

 

Where's the "Make Game" button?

Seriously though, that's quite a bit to chew on.

 

what's an MMO?

 

Well, I can't even afford to leave the house. So my life is a single player game. And there isn't even a campaign mode. It's like that Kim Kardashian game where you just sit there clicking the mouse until you give someone else all of your money and click the mouse some more.

 

It can be done by yourself, but you'll want to outsource alot of your networking. Because its difficult and time consuming to figure it out. But there might be something on the Asset store already there to help you.

 

"2000 total hours from an individual not a team is plenty of time to create an MMO worthy of playing"

I think that's about 8 months if you work 8 hour shifts and no weekends off. So i guess, it's not a totally unreasonable amount of time. I wonder how you settled on 2000 hours though, do you have some kind of deadline?

Why do I feel like this is some kind of copypasta? xD

 

Uhh..that's a lot of text and I don't really understand your point.

Are you saying that you could make an MMO by yourself in 2000 hours if only people would help you and/or game studios would release their project files?

Are you saying you'll never learn to program a game because people won't help you and hold your hand step by step?

What exactly is your skillset other than writing a text file with ideas for a game? Everyone has ideas for a game, what makes you think you deserve personal hand holding attention from the rest of the world?

I would think that you are a troll, but that's a lot of effort to put into a troll post, so logic dictates that you are serious, yet you contradict your own point by posting that you can't do what you say you can do if only you could do it.

If you think it can be done in 2000 hours then you best get started. I suggest cutting 100 hours from your networking code budget by buying a networking asset and using those 100 saved hours to look at the learn section on unity.

 

Have you tried looting your neighbor's houses?

 

Don't forget the "official(from the software company) tutorial videos" that walk you step by step to building your dream MMO!

 

@ShilohGames I get that a lot... "Make pong first, then make it multiplayer." And I usually respond... "And then make it so they can create accounts and save their wins/losses."

@delinx32 I suppose someone would want to help me if maybe they felt I share their views and that its hard to find someone to identify with their views.

 

I can never find a raid group for that.

 

My first job in web development was as an intern at an advertising agency. The developer who served as my mentor is one of those guys you kinda hate because everything seems like it comes so easily to him, while people like me struggle to grasp concepts over a long period of time.

One of his favorite things to say was that no task is really that complicated. You just break it down into its most basic parts, and tackle them one by one. I still think he was kind of trolling me, but I also believe that's how his mind just worked. And indeed, he could be thrown into something he had no prior experience with and make it work in an impressively quick fashion.

In the years since I worked under him, there's a few things I've learned on the subject that I didn't know how to put into words at the time. For one, his viewpoint on things not being that complicated was formed over his 15 years of experience in the field. So he was well used to breaking down tasks, as programmers do. Not everyone can do this so easily, though, and it takes experience to be able to do it well. Is it possible to do a massive project in 2000 hours? Sure. But you probably need a couple thousand hours ahead of that to get good at what you want to do.

This is proof you've never done this before. Not the least of reasons is latency. If you're running along the roof of a moving train and I shoot at your face with an assault rifle while falling off a building from 400 meters away, not only are we doing some calculations as to whether I'll hit you or not (I won't, haha), but that calculation has to be done fast enough while sending and receiving data to a server that's also sending and receiving data to your client that's calculating your movements and your shots. Keeping systems synchronized with split-second accuracy is no trivial matter.

To be honest, anyone that says games aren't complex immediately loses any credibility. I'm actually kind of disappointed in myself for taking the bait and responding to this thread.

 

That's how you should do everything, yes

But once you break up certain projects into the smallest, most atomic pieces, some of the things you can't build without building the whole thing end up taking a lot of time. A big project could indeed be easy, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's done quickly.

 

Well, they are clearly only NPCs, so what harm could it do?

 

Dude. Come back when you have made the simplest of games. Try flappy birds or space invaders. Then we can talk.

But unless you are going to do that you are wasting everyone's time.

 

Seriously dude, just go make some tutorials instead of wasting your time mindfking yourself.

 

I don't get it. If you are certain you can make your MMO singlehandedly in 8 months, then why don't you just do it? I'm not exactly sure what you expect anyone else to say. "You go, girl?"

 

I do think the advice about breaking something down into bitesize chunks is good, and I do think some game mechanics can be roughed out quickly in a short time (1 week Shenmue), but that's not the same as making a full game.

I do know some mobile developers who refuse to spend more than 2 weeks to make a game.

 

Saying this sounds like you refuse to learn even by yourself.

This just sounds like you want everything spoon fed to you.

After seeing your pastebin name, it seems to me that you're that guy who refuses to try and check the tutorials suggested by other people.

I'm also new to Unity and game development myself so I can't tell if what you're planning to do is hard or easy since I don't even know that yet.

 

I like you. Welcome to the community.

 

And what would be wrong with someone helping me one on one... if it could accelerate my learning... I'm sure you're just gonna say that if someone gives you step by step instructions and you don't do video tutorials and read the manual you won't have as good of an understanding...

well that's bullcrap I think... i'm sure i'm gonna be banned again because of who I am...didn't realize it showed who I am(or what I did... same thing)

 

This is the right answer.

 

Nothing if you are willing to pay for it. If you want to attract a free mentor you are going to have to use more honey and less vinegar.

That said the best game developers of any trade learn in every way possible.

 

No one is going to help you if you don't bother put any effort into it. Making games is a long and time consuming process. Most every who has put the effort into it is doing it because they want to make games, and doesn't have the time to spend months teaching someone who doesn't care. Why on earth would anyone?

More importantly, you haven't asked, you have only laid out your demands and ignorant notions. In all that rambling nonsense is there a polite request? Where exactly is the word "Please?"

Nope, has nothing to do with who you are. It has everything to do with inconsiderate and rude behavior.

---

Mods, this thread should be locked, it is going no where pleasant.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate being welcomed here.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's great that someone will do this for you but if there's no one doing this then why not learn try to find some resources to learn instead of saying "I'm never gonna learn to program games.".

What's wrong with youtube tutorials? When you're trying to learn something, every little bit of information counts IMO. You're saying that these won't provide you with better understanding on the subject but how do you think people learned what they know before computers even existed if they didn't read manuals?

I understand that you want someone to teach you everything if possible but that attitude won't get you anywhere. You will never learn anything if you simply refuse to learn even the smallest parts being thought to you just because you think that it does not provide you with the information you want.

 

it wouldn't take months to teach someone to make an mmo...

people should be working on modding existing systems and making ginormous games... tons larger than anything on the market... no one makes large games because games are a conspiracy...

i'm never going to "change the world" I guess by convincing everyone that these game development forums are just a conspiracy

I wouldn't have went this route, but i'm sure it is gonna get closed and im sure I am gonna get banned cuz I told hippocoder something bad

 

and I suppose this guy who just joined the forums is gonna be real popular... by conforming to the idea that you should learn things by yourself... and that you should respect the opinions of these people working on these indie games no one will ever play... which the opinions are basically that cool games are impossible to make

 

and yeah... I told the mods at gamemaker and unreal to do the same thing

 

Time for a thread lock and a ban I think. Good thing I'm not a mod.

Yes it would. I'm prepared to teach you. First lesson. Watch all of the official videos on the learn section once. I also want you to build Roll-A-Ball and the Survival Shooter. Build the Marco Polo tutorial on the PUN website. Come back to me when you are done and I'll give you your next assignment. If you have trouble let me know and I'll help out. If you'd asked nicely I could of directed you to which tutorials to do first.

If an MMO really is as easy as you say you do have the potential to change the world.

 

why couldn't we just start with the mmo? I don't want to be be a balanced programmer... I just want to make content for an mmofps... even if its an overly simple one... and I think you could definitely explain to me how to make content without me making all these projects and knowing everything related to game design... yet still I would be able to do everything I would want to with scripts and hierarchies I think.... cuz I know its just a matter of hierarchy templates

 

Then do it. There are plenty of games out there with an active modding community. Or you could start building content for the asset store. Or you could approach an existing studio and apply for a job creating content.

You won't find much in the way of modding in this community, we tend to make our own games from scratch. But a quick google search will reveal other modding communities.

 

There are two engines specifically made for MMOs that are reasonably affordable.

Hero Engine
BigWorldTech

 

Good call. I'd forgotten those guys. That may be exactly what you are after.

 

No one said cool games are impossible to make. You have to put in the effort. And there are many successful indie and professional developers here. (and some who may not be super successful, but have still made cool games). Insulting people and being an ass about it isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

I don't really want to focus on this, but you're stating this after claiming everyone is wrong...

 

well that's how I feel, the games made by the people on the game dev forums are gay

and im too stupid to make a game myself

 

Learn programming, then after 2000 hours we speak again...

Thats like expecting a tutorial on how to plan and build a spacecraft. It's not something that can easily be summarized, since it involves so many different professions and man-years of experience.

 

maybe you should actually check your hypotheses against reality before you come here arguing silly point.

I know there is a making of video around of WoW, check that out and come back to us

 

Oh, I like that analogue If building a MMO is the same as a spacecraft, then making it successful is like colonizing Mars

 

its more like saying why would you grow some trees and wait to chop down the trees... when you can just buy cinderblocks and sheet metal and drywall

to build a house

analogies are stupid...

houses are hard to build, but everyone lives in one of those... how about your stove or refrigerator... pretty complicated machines if you ask me... but they are mass reproduced using procedure and theory

 

@moosfredhas - Nope

 

Bad news: there are no one-hour tutorials showing every step of building a house or refrigerator from scratch either. The conspiracy deepens.