My email to Unity (about pricing)

(sent this through their contact form)


Unity Folks,


First of all, I want to thank you for the awesome product you have developed and continue to support. I am amazed every day at the ease of use and workflow niceties that Unity offers - and it has most assuredly made my game development experience more enjoyable and less stressful!


While I expect no official response or action to this email - (I’m sure you have plenty of bigger fish to fry), I thought I’d drop you a line and express what an ‘average’? indie developer has to consider when dealing with licenses.


I’ve been using Unity on and off for about 4 years? now. I’m using a free Unity license although for a period of time when I was working for a small game studio, I was able to use the pro version for about 12 months.


I’m near to completing my first mobile game (http://www.indiedb.com/games/timetracer) and am soon about to tackle some final polish and optimization. I’m a true ‘indie’, working completely on my own - I’m a decent coder that buys art/music assets as necessary.


What I REALLY need is a pro-unity license. I need it for profiling. There is simply no easy way for me to track down un-obvious performance bottlenecks or frame-rate stutters without a good profiler (which Unity HAS and I was able to enjoy when I had a Pro license). I also need it for full screen and glow effects. One element of my game is ‘time stopping’ as well as time warping - and NOT having full screen effects for these kinda sucks. yes - I could ‘fake’ something with some effort - and will probably have to try to do so. Also - I need it for glow effects. My game is primarily set in space with dark environments - and having proper glow effects for weapons, enemies, etc would really set it apart. Trying to use complex particle effects to simulate these is getting tiresome and costly.


I earn a pretty good living at my ‘real’ job - supporting a family and home with 2 cars and a fish. That being said, I simply cannot afford to spend what appears to be $4500 on pro licensing to support the 2 platforms I want to release to (Android and IOS). That’s $1500 for base pro and $1500 additional each for android and IOS. I plan to release this first game for free (to get some traction in the industry and get some experience) and really can’t afford to plunk down THAT kind of money for this project.


And yes - I know it would only be $2700 if I went subscription model for a year - but I’ll be honest that this pricing is having me seriously consider (and experiment) with the Unreal Engine for my next project - leaving me to think that the $2700 investment isn’t worth it.


Yes - I know that this is EXACTLY what the ‘free’ version of Unity is designed for. If you don’t plan to generate a lot of revenue from your game - and you can’t afford the pro licenses, Unity is glad to share 90% of their product with you for FREE (and kudos for that, btw).


All that being said - Unity is missing out on revenue from me. I’m not going to plunk down $4500 - and I’m not going to commit to $2700 (X however many years I decide to stay with pro license) - but I MIGHT plunk down a lower amount. I KNOW I would pay $1000 for a combined pro/android/IOS license. I KNOW that I would pay $75 per month for the same combined model.


I LOVE working in Unity and the assets and support that are available to me are unparalleled compared to other engines that are out there. I just wanted to share with you MY scenario and hope it adds to the knowledgebase you have of your customers and their needs.


Thanks again for an AWESOME product-line!!!


Jeff Amiel

Brookfield, WI

 

Why didn't you just post this in one of the other existing license price things?

 

I didn't spot any recent ones (didn't look real hard) -
To be honest, I've avoided reading most of the threads on the subject - preferring to keep my own counsel.
Sorry for the noise....(figured Unity Gossip was kind of a free-for all sub-forum anyhow )

 

i too, am a true, Lone, Broke, indie developer...and believe it or not, I have even less income than you, I got sick, almost died, lost everything...If it was not for social security, I would be on the streets...really...I think unity, saved my life....)

I needed to literately Rebuild my life, from the ground up.

So when it comes to pricing to upgrade, yes it seems a tough hurdle...BUT...because unity indie is SO powerful, with the community and asset store, the opportunity is so great,(actually HUGE!!!) the path (for me at least) is clear and really not unreasonable.

Step 1). Build a Free indie game, place Ad Mob ads in it, generate monthly income.
Step 2). Wait until monthly revenue meets Unity Pro + Android : In 1 Week [$150.00 ]
Step 3). With Unity Pro + Android Pro : Release paid App (Same Template as prior game + Features/multiple players, etc..) Wait until that meets 75.00 a week then buy IOS Pro.
Step 4) Rake it In!!!!!!

I Think buying pro, will not guarantee success.

I knew the only way I was ever going pro, was to earn it. I still have not purchased....yet... :-(....

Pick a good genre, one that, you truly can compete in, localize, great artwork, good video, work hard, buy critical assets when you need them, and be careful with your ads.( My ads were not clickable for 2 months/did not have large ads - lost 2,500.00.

Remember, I did this in my bedroom, by myself, on my 10 year old dell/win XP/$99.00 cell phone in 5 Months!!!

I actually do not know why I am getting this activity, positive thinking???.... I just got lucky??

anyway..food for thought

p-

 

We try and read every post. Thanks for taking the time to comment, even if you did start a new thread, and were not able to contribute to the "official" thread seeking customer views.

Whilst not an exact solution, why not take out a Pro subscription, so you can use the profiler on the PC or Mac to get some idea about the performance bottlenecks you have, and then use the built-in profiler for details about the performance on the mobile devices? Won't solve the image effects problem. But, once you've shipped the game, if you start making $75/month, add an Android Pro subscription, and if you make over $150/month, add the iOS Pro one.

 

Also, depending on what you need to profile, there's really useful stuff built into .NET - the Unity Profiler is not the only way to profile your code!

Start with System.Diagnostics.Stopwatch. Depending on the use case this is actually more useful than Unity's Profiler. The Unity one is great for things like checking scene performance. A Stopwatch is great for things like clocking how quickly a single function does its thing (and by moving it around you can drill deeper, though you of course can't get much detail of what it's causing outside of your own code).

 

I will have to learn the Windows Profiler - Dr. Watson is it? / os X Profiler - adb / gdb? Who knows but I may need to learn if Unity 4.5.Patch# doesn't speed up significantly.

 

I think this guys is the perfect person to try UE4. I think the unreal pricing model would suit you a load better. You also aren't committed for a year, it is just month by month.

 

Have you considered trying a Kickstarter/Indiegogo for approximately the amount required for the Pro licenses?

 

@ForceVFX

Sorry to derail the thread , but you are making some very awesome claims on ad revenue so I have to ask which service are you using?

 

I hear this all the time. Use Kickstarter, get some money!

For a hobbyist, this just isn't a good suggestion. Right now, I know several people who have used Kickstarter, raised quite a bit of money, and then were unable to finish the game. Yeah, it happens and the people who pledge have some responsibility there. But really, if you can't afford to buy the tools you need to publish, then using other people's money is risky. If you absolutely know the game is going out, if you have the funds to complete the project or ask for the amount you need to complete it, then fine. But asking for $1500? You more than likely can't finish a game with this amount and if you can't afford Unity Pro, then how will you afford the other costs associated with a making a game?

I guess if it is a mobile game, simple, you have all the artwork and don't have to buy/hire anyone for anything else, it might be okay. But I highly suggest people be careful.

Again, I know people who have raised thousands of dollars and then failed because the money is gone quickly. For some of these folks, a fun hobby has turned into a very stressful situation, with commitments they cannot honor. Some of us feel guilty about that, you know. A hobby wrought with guilt is not fun.

Actually, it makes me very sad that a Unity employee is "liking" this. If customers have to ask for money from complete strangers to afford a tool, then that is a problem.

Just my opinion, by the way. I worry about the kids who read stuff here sometimes.

 

Thanks for responding inline here ....(and thanks to everyone else as well).
One of the trends I'm trying to buck (maybe not wisely) is to release a final polished game on day one (bugs aside if any). I really detest the recent trend of "release early release often". So adding effects/goodness to the game post-release would be a route I wouldn't want to go.... Again, this is just me - but I want my first release to go out with a bang - not multiple wimpers.

Yeah - I may end up with the unity pro base license for the profiling if I can't get other tools/techniques to help.
Thanks again to all for the advice!!

 

I agree with this. Kickstarting may be trendy, but it's a business transaction and you're asking people to invest. While that does mean that some risk should be accepted by both parties, it also means that you should know what you're doing in regard to running a project you're asking others to invest in. You should be concerned not just with your immediate hurdle, but having a complete, reasonable and realistic plan to see you through to the end of the project and to get your investors their desired return.

That doesn't have to mean doom and gloom. If you're doing the project anyway and you're mostly there and you're literally looking for an engine upgrade to add an extra layer of final polish then getting that kickstarted is quite possibly a perfectly good option. But if I were to get something kickstarted earlier than that, I'd want to be darn sure I'm committed to finishing it and I'd want a comprehensive understanding of what that actually means.

 

Kickstarter is dangerous, and can leave you facing lawsuits, unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing.

Being sure of your own desire isn't nearly enough, no matter how strong that desire is. You ALSO need to be sure of your own ability to complete the project, including technically, artistically, and commercially. You must wear MANY hats to produce a successful game.

 

To be fair, as long as you give the backers what you promised your game doesn't have to be otherwise "successful".

But you're absolutely right. A lot of people aren't even able to reasonably do the things I suggested because they literally have zero experience planning such a thing. They're trying to make decisions from the "unconscious incompetence" stage of experience.

 

The way you describe your game, possibly these effects could be achieved using echologins core framework or his Post FX, both are meant for mobiles and both will work on Unity free, they would set you back $100 combined.

 

Those people either did not know what they were getting themselves into or they simply had unrealistic expectations. I would never suggest Kickstarter if the OP only had a prototype or a basic idea.

I am suggesting the idea because the OP does have a nearly finished product that only requires a little polishing and some optimization. Kickstarter is ideal for him.

I would recommend asking for about $6,000. This should easily cover the cost of Unity Pro, Android Pro, and iOS Pro after income taxes and Kickstarter fees are taken into consideration.

 

If you can't afford Unity Pro, or if you have not the budget to make your awesome dream game, then simply start smaller with Unity Free until you've made enough money.

 

I agree that the profiler should be available in free.. not sure why its not.. technical limitation or cash grab?...

Considering they have a no-doubt significant base of users releasing games with free, it would make sense to ensure these people are not releasing low performing apps that could be at least partially mitigated by having the profiler available.

Not having the profiler just means low performing apps will continue to be released, maintaining the reputation that Unity is used for mediocre games, and not for serious development.

note: I realise having the profiler is not going to stop people releasing shoddily developed apps.

As for the image effects, too bad. Cant pay, tough luck. Don't care about this side of any complaint or your life story as to why you cant afford the price.

You're not the only one with a wife+kid+cars+mortgage.

 

Hi,


If you do not have Unity Pro:

• Use the newer Shruiken effects instead of legacy particles.
• Use OnUpdate sparingly.
• Use OnGUI sparingly. NGUI 2.xx which is free. Yeah, it sucks, to a certain extent, but it's free...

• Check your environment for massive textures.
• Check your environment for multi-million poly nonsense models.
• Check if the animation is going into loops for no reason.
• Check for bloated sound files in memory.

• Enable or disable components until you see a frame-rate drop, or partial speed increase.

 

Use OnGui for one thing. Development UI.

Not sure if the new one is out or not, and how its performance stacks. Havnt updated to the latest version yet. Didnt see any mention of a new gui system in release notes (would expect it to be the first thing mentioned), so I assume we're still waiting...

However, this is just one small side of performance. Scripting can cripple a game if done badly, so that list above, is rather lack lustre.

Put the profiler in free.. as a pro user I dont care.

 

I have no idea how that game is coded.


I gave a simple list of things he could possibly check.

 

You have two cars, yet you can't afford to pay for Unity Pro? To be honest, it sounds more like you just think it's over-priced and don't want to pay for it.

Maybe sell one of the cars...?

 

lol.
Fair enough.
thanks again to everyone's suggestions -

 

lol.
Well - one car is a crapy Buick.
$4500 is a lot regardless I would think for most people -
And I guess to your point, I DO think it's overpriced - when I have to pay for multiple platform licenses. Indies simply MUST release on multiple platforms to get enough exposure to generate goodly revenue (near as I can tell).
All is good.....
I'll proly release without Pro and see what kind of traction I can get.

 

Wow - I had not run across these before..thanks bunch for the tip!!

 

I don't think commenting on the OP's personal situation is very constructive.

 

It is due out with version 4.6. This latest release appears to be mostly bug fixes.

 

I suppose a Kickstarter isn't the wisest course of action, but it is not also the worst. If you can fulfil the backers wants and raise some funds which will help you in your gaming developing venture (along with some publicity), I'd say Kickstarter/Indiegogo is a really good option.

Just my 2 cents.

 

If you are using Kickstarter to raise the $1500 for Unity Pro or the $4500 for the add-ons and Unity Pro then be up front and honest with the backers. Tell them you want to improve the game and clearly state the improvements pro will bring to the game. Then do the Kickstarter. Do not promise a finished game IF they give you the money. At least then you can do it with a clear conscious and if you don't get the money, you can release it on free. The backers know exactly why you are asking for money and they know they will get a game regardless, but a better one if the campaign is successful.

 

Which is why crowd-funding is ideal for the OP. His game is basically finished and the funding would only be for improving the quality.

Personally I would aim for $6,000 with perhaps a realistic stretch goal or two spaced about $1,000 to 2,000 apart from that. I would give early access to the game, since it is essentially finished anyways, to those who back and at higher tiers I would put backers names in the credits.

Indiegogo might be better than Kickstarter as you get to keep your funding. So in the event that you don't make it past the cost of Unity Pro, you'd at least have Unity Pro for profiling.

 

Indiegogo certainly allows you to keep your money if you don't reach your funding goal but Kickstarter has a bigger community of backers. Most of the projects on kickstarter get funded successfully and you end up gaining more publicity for your game. Both have their pros and cons. It is upto the OP to decide.

 

Interesting aside -
What I learned yesterday (I think) is that even with Unity Pro, I can only profile directly on a mobile device (android, IOS) with a pro license for that platform.

*grumble*

There are definite 'spikes' that I need to deal with that only seem to occur on android (or specific android devices) that I would not be able to find profiling on a windows/editor build.

I was inches away from pulling trigger on monthly Unity Pro license when I discovered this....
I simply cannot afford 3 different ADDITIONAL pro license for the 3 platforms I want to release to (android, IOS, windows phone)

Again - Unity is not receiving revenue from me that they COULD have...

I'm not mad or angry - just pointing out to Unity that they are again 'losing' money - because with a re-organized pricing model, I would have purchased SOMETHING.

 

Mobile platforms have internal profiler in free version which gives enough data to know what to focus on.

 

It does - and I appreciate it - it's just not enough to give me data about what is going on with specific frames where I see spikes. The Unity (visual) profiler is some pretty slick stuff .....

 

This is actually pretty funny. So let me recap.

A) You avoid other people's thoughts by not reading the other threads.

B) You prefer to keep your own counsel.

so you figured the right thing to do was..

C) You posted your own personal letter as a new thread for everyone else to consider!

Wow ... just wow.

 

Kinda late to the party on commenting on that aspect of this thread - but ok ....yeah - that's essentially how it went.

 

Yeah - I opened the window read the OP post and then had to step away, had some things to do. Eventually I came back a while later and finally composed a reply and hit submit. So on my screen there was only 1 reply but in the meantime the thread had seen a lot more action.

My bad for not refreshing before posting!

 

No worries - my fault for generating the additional noise on the subject.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if forum threads had a summary feature. Found this free text compactor online and applied it to your initial letter to get this 1% text version:

Now imagine if forums could compact entire threads down to pertinent points, or better still a mind map view of the concepts covered.

This could be great, especially for some of the largest threads, like the minecraft thread. (50 pages).

 

UE4 is vaporware at the moment, . may be in 6 months they will be ready for indie-devs...
Android - very bad support
iOS - better a bit
build times - very long! even on my top-end PC
but(!) great beautiful editor -> I got a lot of aesthetic pleasure working with this, Blueprints are awesome also, but(!) topicstarter wants mobile platforms??? -> forget UE4

 

I do not think you know what vapourware is.

 

While true, but at what cost? Reducing the cost to attempt to potentially gain sales from folks they currently don't would also mean losing revenue on customers they already have. One is speculative, the other is guaranteed.

In your example numbers of $3500->$1000 they would have to convert 2.5 people per current pro license holder to break even. That wouldn't remotely happen, there thousands of people who don't pay now that would jump at the chance to pay $1000. It sucks, but just like with games and other business, there is no perfect solution that fits everyone and you can't chase after target or group at the expense of another. On the upside, they have provided you value at no cost, since you were able to build a sellable game in the first place.

 

like this? http://www.thegreenhead.com/2010/02/r2-d2-usb-humidifier.php

 

No, it's more like this

 

Certainly, but why would they reduce the price when they can simply introduce a new tier for those who cannot afford the upfront costs? I've suggested it before. Introduce a cheaper tier with a restrictive income limit. If people make more than that, they can pay the difference to upgrade to the $1,500 tier. If they don't, they won't have lost as much and Unity would still have gotten something.

 

How much is it going to cost to police those tiers? At the moment I doubt it's a big deal because there's also a feature difference. But if there's no feature difference then the developer of any game that uses Pro features potentially has to be audited, and that would have a huge cost involved.

 

Anyone unlikely to upgrade when they hit the appropriate tier is likely already using a pirated copy. After all, why pay a partial price when you can simply torrent and use it for free?

 

I don't really see why you need unity pro to make your game. Anyway you should just get an iOS licence unless your game does outstanding and is a hit porting to the other platforms is a waste of time and money

 

I don't see why we need 3D. After all, isn't 2D sufficient for everything? Unity Pro has more advantages than simply prettier visuals. For simple games, Unity Free might be sufficient. But it won't cut it for every situation.