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Motorsports Dynamics Engine a.k.a. MoDyEn.

Discussion in 'Works In Progress - Archive' started by Ravel, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Hello Michele. I am not throwing mud on your package, you are mis understood by this. And I am not writing bullshit it's my opinnion and surely you have given the abilty for this kind of an opinnion. I am not mocking your work on it thats a fact, I was explaining to the Kick dude to lay back.
    And about code translation you are wrong my code started from the alternative example of unitys tutorial. But there is no secret that i am learning from racer, vdrift, torcs, and brian beckamns documentation (mostly from this, because this has been a starting point for all of the previous sims mentioned).
    And saddly unlike you Michele, I am giving credit to who i have been inspired by, whos influenced or who has helped my project physics/code wise. Alot of the simulation is similar so you can not say that "carX = racer = modyen" and "unitycar != vdrift". With this fact you can say Forca = Racer? I am a person who knows what should happen and what should not when it comes to cars. And i can say that CarX and Racer are quite good but not the same for sure, for example CarX has something going on with wheel loads and is some what odd.
    When it comes to simulations, Vdrift sadly has done something terribly wrong, giving it a more arcade feeling, witch is also presented in your demos. This is why i have this opinnion of yours being based on Vdrift(+the fact that you actually post on Vdrift forums, witch is not a bad thing, dont misunderstand me!). And once again I am not throwing mud on your project, people have different aspects of things and this is totally normal.

    Thank you for your time Michele.
     
  2. Pulov

    Pulov

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    >><KickAss91>>> no matter how many smilies yo put to your first post. its full of poison.
     
  3. newlife

    newlife

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    where did you give credit to that documentation expect from here? I dont know when you joined unity community, but all those who know UnityCar history know that is born from an online contest (there should still be the relative thread) and that i started it from Unity Car tutorial (im talking about almost 2 years ago). Now, like every one of my customer can tell you, UnityCar code is 99% original.

    I have NEVER told that carX=racer.

    carX is by far one the most advanced sim, not only in Unity domain. Only if you have fought against ADVANCED car simulation aspect (like physical based tire pressure calculation or impulse based drivetrain simulation) you can understand how much advanced is Carx.

    racer (at least 0.5) is lights year behind carx. Btw keep in mind that racer 0.5 is a 2003 program and i personally knows Ruud van Gaal, racer author, and he is one of the greatest vehicle simulation expert on the market.
    CarX has nothing wrong on wheel loads, it just seems to have some little "external force" that helps driver to recover from drifting.

    Vdrift's code is very good (possibly more advanced than racer 0.5). Its problem probably is due to the fact that there is something wrong in the relation between Vdrift code and the physic engine.
    So thers no arcade feeling. If you think that UnityCar has an arcade feeling too, what kind of feeling do you think your sim have ???
     
  4. Pulov

    Pulov

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    why dont we try to focus all this energy onto our projects instead of playing a text based batlefield sesion>>>__

    With UnityCar you have a pretty nice fanclub, thats cool! And you cover a gap for all these people that needs a car physycs engine at the level your package is (whatever it is) , I believe same aplies to Ravel.

    So I invite all to leave this fight because you both are loosing time and we-fans are seeing this very sad moment that KickAss started without any reason.

    I dont see any problem in asking, commenting how similar its to whatever other engine , but men, the way its written you're clearly assuming this is a copy and its sounds pretty insulting.
     
  5. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Hello Michele. I havent released my project thats why there is no credit codewise given, i have only released some plain simple demonstration versions. I do also know Ruud van Gaal in fact hes documentation pages have helped me alot on implementing new features, so there sure may be something simmilar in the final product, tho the documentation is for racer 0.8+ and there is no way for me geting this source, but i still have simmylar data currently indeed, just wrote my code to work with realistic values. I was around racer since 2004 and his project inspired me to make something of my own. The reason why its thaking me so darn long is that I have been changing multiple platforms trying out different versions remaking the whole physics from scratch a couple of times and finally im geting to a more stable physics. Tho I'm still rewriting stuff from scratch because of it not working correctly. This is why every single time my demonstrations feel different, sometimes its too arcadish sometimes its too drifty and sometimes its to hard to controll. From the past years i have learned that tires are the most complex things on a simulation and this is what I am working on the most.
    Thank you for your feedback.
     
  6. JamesArndt

    JamesArndt

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    I think this project looks really good. I could definitely take some lessons from this setup.
     
  7. jujunosuke

    jujunosuke

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    I have to agree with NewLife on the fact that CarX is the most incredible Car Physics i ever saw.
    IMO Ravel project and CarX looks and feel totally different.

    Also Ravel, i saw on your blog that you extracted 3D cars models from Need For Speed ?
    That sure does look beautiful on screen but some people may think that you stole car models as well lol.
    That may not arrange the situation.

    I know that it is just test material but its not really fair for people who try their best to make car models by their own. (Like me for example).

    But about the car physics in itself, i am completely sure that you made your original one.
    Of course, like all of us your are influenced by all famous racing sims, but i know that racing physics are not a simple copy and paste.

    Anyway, good luck.
     
  8. HolBol

    HolBol

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    This really isn't fair to Ravel. Guys, stop squabbling, and each of you can get back to your own systems. If they are based on something else, using certain examples or formulae or whatever, it doesn't matter! Each system works in it's own way, just leave it be.

    And KickAss91, you need to be careful with how you word things. Very careful.
    And finally, NewLife, you need to chill a little. Ravel used your package as a comparison to try and defeat KickAss' comments thatt each of them were the same. He's not throwing mud on anything. Maybe take it as a compliment? No need to be so agressive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  9. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    I agree. I also want to say to NewLife that if you keep the aggressive attitude up you could lose customers.
     
  10. newlife

    newlife

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    Fishman92, OmniverseProductions did you read all the thread before posting? im not so sure. Saying that my package (2 years work, one of the my main income source) is a PURE VDRIFT CONVERSION is or is not throwing mud??
     
  11. HolBol

    HolBol

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    I think you're misreading it. Look here :
    This is the statement that 'angered' you, I assume. What I read into this is exactly what I mentioned. Kickass91 drew a similar comparison between Ravel's system and CarX, and what Ravel writes here is a similar comparison to draw out the faults in KickAss91's orignial statement, because everyone could see that it was an unfair comment to make. Here's an example :

    You're making an FPS, and someone goes "Oh, you ripped of Halo and stole stuff from them and nothing is new" when really you started from scratch. That's going to annoy you. So to counteract that, you'd draw a similar, but intentionally ironic comparison saying "Well if my FPS is just like Halo, then by that standard COD must be exactly like Battlefield, because they are both (que sarcasm) similar games and play exactly the same way". Do you see what I'm saying? It wasn't a comment to put your product down, it was a comment to stop KickAss91 from dropping stupid comments that would make people look at the product in a negative light.

    Furthermore, they're all driving sims. They are all going to feel similar. Maybe you should see the benifit of the comparison- that your car package does feel close to packages that have attempted to make a really 'real' simulation. It could suggest, moreover, that you are doing a very good job.
     
  12. Pulov

    Pulov

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    About the comment on car models, I believe I readed a while ago that the car was modeled by Stecki, wich I think is this guy.

    http://stecki3d.blogspot.com.es/
     
  13. OmniverseProduct

    OmniverseProduct

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    I am aware of that and I did read the posts plus I do not think there is any mud throwing. I was going to buy your package at some point, but if you keep it up I won't.
     
  14. jujunosuke

    jujunosuke

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    Dude, forget what i said earlier.

    You did a very good job. As i said, i sometimes follow the thread and look at the demo, and i can say that the gameplay evolved in the good direction.
    Looks like you found some cool and fun settings. Of course car physics are endless research but you made something very nice physically and visually.

    So, good luck for next !
     
  15. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Thank you for your feedback. And to get back to the topic, I'm currently playing around with the D1gp game on ps2, trying to get the same feeling of the game into my project, so the next demo might look slightly like it. Planing to add multiple cars to the selection also. Ive also got some new features implemented witch i will reveal with the next release. So stay tuned, if all goes well the new demo version will be out soon if its satisfactionary by its physical feeling the product is ready for a release.
     
  16. Pulov

    Pulov

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    I need a video.... now!!!! :rolleyes:
     
  17. Slipangle

    Slipangle

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    What he said ^^
     
  18. reddotgames

    reddotgames

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    Hope your physics will be universal not only focused on drifting.
    I'm waiting for new demo.
     
  19. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Hi Darek, The physics are universal, I'm just pushing the physics to the max to get realistic drifting i.e. sideways grip manipulation with throttle. Like in real life actually...

    So it's up to the cars configuration and tires to get it drifting or racing. I've also added a global grip parameter for quick tire adjustments, not the best in physics wise but you can get quick results with it.

    Since tires seem to be done for now, I'm working on a advanced suspension, because the previous model was to simple. If i get a better connection I'll upload a video for you guys!
     
  20. Pulov

    Pulov

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    that would be great!!! you need to feed our need of media :) .

    you might take them with you in an USB so if you're near a internet cafe, friends house, univ .... you connect and upload them in a momment....
     
  21. Ravel

    Ravel

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    heres a quick video


    my drifting is also crappy feint drifts. and ignore the steering, my joystics analogs are too sharp, more like buttons.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2012
  22. Pulov

    Pulov

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    Hi there.

    I know little about drifting but the vid feels pretty nice. May be the sideways fricktion seems too low at some point as it seems to drift at very low speed, but this might be a tweakable parameter so no prob.

    Like how the weight feels.

    Lol, that steering. Anyway, the trace of the car looks pretty fluid, wonder if the transition betwen 0º and 60º (or whatever it reaches) shouldnt affect more the behavior as it is now. May be, and just a comment for future modifications, for driving with keyboard, it should move more progressively by incresing the steer angle xº per second while arrows are pressed, just to avoid being it so harsh.

    The car shader looks pretty cool.
    Muffler flame too.
    The stiched cam may be is too rigid and it might be interesting to have a parameter to allow it bank a little more in the curves. The camera that is active near the end is good as you dont always see only the back side of the car.
    The replay cam that is active most of the vid is very nice.

    Lol you've a negative vote with only 30 views. Some jealous hater may be?

    keep up this nice work.
     
  23. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Hi Pulov, yeah there was a little friction error, i fixed that now its more stable on straights about the steering, i like to add a interpolation function to the joy analog, but havent goten into this, Mathf.Lerp didnt do the trick at first (in ps2 you have this little damped delay for the stick, so when you push the stick to the right it comes along smoothly so it would not loose grip so easly with sharp controllers, for steering wheel this would be disabled.

    Suprsisingly i cant seem to figure out how to let unity detect if a joystic is pluged in or not, tho it shows this in the log...

    The cars shader is not at its maximum, just some settings that would look good on a regular gloss paint with stickers.

    About the steering, yes there is alot of friction change when steering, you cant see this in the video because of my crappy shar joystic lol. I made the keyboard steering much smother but id like to make it enabled only when there is no joystics pluged in.

    About drifting, there are various methods of drifting, my current simulation state handled every method i tryed from my knowledge wise. Only one lead me to a awkward behavior, when braking hard and steering to the left the car wants to turn to the oposite, I'm not sure if this situation is real, since ive never ever tried such a thing on a car, but other simulation titles dont seem to have this behavior so i guess this is wrong, something to do with weight transfer probably
     
  24. jujunosuke

    jujunosuke

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    Hey !
    Very cool video dude !

    I looked at some video of the drifting game you was talking about and i can see that you reached something very similar !

    I am waiting for your new demo.

    Btw, when you brake and turn, the car should turn in the good direction if the wheels are not locked.
    If your front wheels are locked, you should go straight. Not in the opposite direction.
     
  25. Alex_V

    Alex_V

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    Hi Ravel, do you have any estimation on when the MoDyEn will be available for purchase?
     
  26. Gherid_lacksGPS

    Gherid_lacksGPS

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    Just love seeing your new stuff and am anxiously awaiting the assets release.
     
  27. impheris

    impheris

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    Attached Files:

    • $car.JPG
      $car.JPG
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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  28. Ravel

    Ravel

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    This bug is because your card is SM2, the shaders are for SM3. For the new demo i'll have some options to change. For the asset release, i think im going to release them soon, since the physics model is quite ready. Most of the bugs are fiddeled out, if not all. The code needs cleaning up, commentary and a solid demo, then it's ready fir its first release.
     
  29. impheris

    impheris

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    but the car, track and assets are really great... i`ll wait :)
     
  30. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Just to point it out the track will not be used in the final version, this is a place holder, at the moment I am modeling a circuit exclusively for Project Sideways (witch will be the demonstration version of MoDyEn) The Demonstration version will be bundled with MoDyEn Package.
     
  31. Alex_V

    Alex_V

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    Any development news?
     
  32. Ravel

    Ravel

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    The Development is slow because of unitys GetThreadContext error.
    It's holding me back 80% of the time i start My unity, doesn't matter what project it loads,
    it simply gives a error and only restart helps, and not always.

    Other than that, working on the demo menu at the moment.
     
  33. Rush-Rage-Games

    Rush-Rage-Games

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  34. Ravel

    Ravel

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    A little confirmative update.
    I finally got unity pro license, and had a play around the post procesing side, planning to make a realistic photographer setings based system for replays and photo mode(Like in Grand Turisom 4/5)
    Also Fixed some issues with clutch, and now trying to figure out a new bug i discovered ( the car starts to insanely explode when the ray drops down a collision mesh and trys to come back, sooo not good...)
    Anyway I also have a bit less time to work on the project but I'm a bit more motivated at the time, since the Pro version. Love the features and now trying to get the best out of them to give you guys the exciting experience in the demo, and finally release the first version of MoDyEn :).



    I will try to upload as many pictures as frequently as possible to keep you guys excited for the new demo. The progres may fall into the release of Unity4, because there are some neat features possibly that I can use for the demo.
     
  35. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Another one, lens measurements should be quite accurate now...
    Virtual lens is 1.8f 170mm
    The result is, image from 23 meters(units)
     
  36. Testmobile

    Testmobile

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    Sweet looking!
     
  37. Ravel

    Ravel

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    And one more...
     
  38. brilliantgames

    brilliantgames

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    This looks amazing. But the webplayer link wont work for me. :(
     
  39. Ravel

    Ravel

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    the web player is disabled at the moment, so this is okay
     
  40. Ravel

    Ravel

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  41. Pulov

    Pulov

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    Very very nice shots. Love the orange one.

    Dont forget to post a vid one of these days>>> :roll:
     
  42. Ravel

    Ravel

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    These images are probably the winners of my project right now haha
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2012
  43. cupsster

    cupsster

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    Particle effects could use some love I think. Indeed it look nice.
     
  44. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Particles are poor indeed at the moment, but will work on this soon
    and another angle of the freezed action
     
  45. HolBol

    HolBol

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    I love this picture. Fantastic work- who said good realistic graphics couldn't be done in Unity?
     
  46. Extreme_u3Damon

    Extreme_u3Damon

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    Hey Ravel when will you release this pack ?
    we are working on racing stuff and want an accurate Physics solution
    we choose 2 pack Your Great ModyEN and UnityCar

    please keep up the good work and if you gonna tell me something Secret plz send me PM :D

    also have bought your Shader Pack , Not bad , thanks!
     
  47. Rush-Rage-Games

    Rush-Rage-Games

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    Looks awesome!
     
  48. Extreme_u3Damon

    Extreme_u3Damon

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    Ravel you done so good on shaders and also physics , and you are working so hard on Camera and Quality Section ... take care of Good AntiAliasing ;)

    the edges of the car is a negative point in the quality ;)
     
  49. Gherid_lacksGPS

    Gherid_lacksGPS

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    Ravel the ridiculous....your stuff is ridiculously amazing. Perhaps it was mentioned in the thread, but do you have an ETA on release and an estimate on pricing? Also, I believe some time ago you mentioned bike physics? Just curious if this is something you'll be exploring.

    Again, as always your work is fantastic.
     
  50. Ravel

    Ravel

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    Hey Extreme-u3Damon, Full screen anti aliasing for Defered lightning is allready capable with standard unity image based renders, but it needs a little more tweaking to get rid of those sharper edges.

    Hey Gherid_lacksGPD, thanks! And yes i did mention bike physics, but this is more in a background. I will get into these when everything else is at a good point.

    I'm not sure about the release date but the pricing for the whole package will be 200$ and as i mentioned earlier this year there will be multiple licenses, lite, full, eduactional (this one is for special clients).
    I havent figured out the pricing for the lite package, but it will contain only the physics.

    Because I'm in a time schedule for a prototype of a game at the moment, the demo might be out in a month or so.