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Mods: Stop the bullying!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by wccrawford, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    The Collaboration section is getting really hostile lately. Despite the post that says you shouldn't attack people for posting their MMO idea, that's what people are doing. And since nobody is stopping them, they think it's perfectly okay to troll every new topic that they don't like.

    There's a huge difference between constructive criticism and outright telling people they will fail, or even making fun of them for trying.

    It's incredibly hostile and I'm not sure why the mods haven't been doing anything about it.
     
  2. rik338

    rik338

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    +1
    Maybe mods haven't checked out the section lately.
     
  3. vdek

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    99% of the MMO threads in there are by people who will never finish their project, they're looking to recruit people to help but they're really just wasting everyone's time. It's better for them to get a reality check and work on more manageable projects from the start.
     
  4. windexglow

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  5. wccrawford

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    They might be. But telling them that in a constructive way is far different than the bullying that goes on.

    Constructive:

    MMOs are incredibly complex and are not a recommended first project. You might consider joining another team, or making an easier game first.

    Bullying:

    You're an idiot. This will never work. You can't just create an MMO as your first game. You're wasting everyone's time, here.
     
  6. Unicron

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    Not replying to their threads is a pretty good reality check to me. People replying that do give these advice are the ones wasting everyone's time by bumping the thread over and over which usually ends up in an argument.

    Better to just not reply and let it phase out.
     
  7. rik338

    rik338

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    Mod's looking around would be the best solution.
     
  8. npsf3000

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    Reply one: Important notification.

    Reply two: Good Advice.

    Reply three: More good advice.

    Reply four: A question regard prior works.

    Reply five six: Thread Hijacking IMO.

    Reply seven: A repeat of earlier points regarding originality.

    Reply eight: OT question.

    Reply nine: Answer to OT question.

    Reply ten: A repeat of earlier points regarding originality.

    Other than the one poster's hijacking OT question, there isn't really anything wrong with the thread. Each of the other posts contain important information and perspectives that the OP should take into consideration.

    While there's plenty of room for improvement, it's not quite the hell-hole that you described.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  9. sybixsus2

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    This. Exactly this.

    If that's your idea of bullying, don't ever go anywhere near YouTube or a gaming forum.
     
  10. Mr.T

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    Difficult to tell really with some of the replies which ones are trolling and which ones are posters just being feisty.

    You are right in saying that some of those replies could be rephrased less aggressively but a cursory look at the threads being started indicates that some of those OPs can't possibly be serious.

    So there is a lot of trolling and counter-trolling going on. If you want the mods to step into a mess like that better supply them with a truck full of aspirin first.
     
  11. Starsman Games

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    Agree with NPSF3000, that thread is not particularly flamy.

    HOWEVER, I got to agree with the OP to a point. I have been mostly recently active in these forums, but been lurking for a LONG time as I developed Bomber Cat. In that time, I would get bored and indulged my guilty pleasure of reading through a flamewar/trollfest by visiting the colaboration forums.

    I mean, literally, from the day I signed up and browsed the forums here, Colaboration forum became synonimous with Trolling. Guilty pleasure to read, never took part in one... (that I can recall) but... I think that says a lot. The forum looks like that from the first gaze.

    Not sure if there is anything that can be done to salvage that forum though. Perhaps if it was a No-Reply forum where you create "classifieds" and interested parties are forced to take any interest to PMs...
     
  12. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I see no bullying at all in that thread. All I see is peer pressure, what you would get in a playground, before people become adults. The OP of that thread will learn not to make outlandish claims. There's a few kids there talking a load of S***, but it doesn't appear to be bullying in any form whatsoever, and certainly doesn't look like it needs moderation.

    Perhaps some people are just too sensitive.
     
  13. npsf3000

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    Hippo's Have Hardy Hides. :p
     
  14. UnLogick

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    wccrawford: +1

    If I knew right from the start that all the non-contracted games that I've worked with would fail. Would I still have done it? Yes!

    While I do agree MMO's are too hard for novice programmers, I still think its a good exercise. If I hadn't been wanting to make an mmo since before Ultima Online I doubt I would be half as good at programming.

    I don't fault anyone for not joining in and contributing their time, especially since many of the MMO posts have been declarations of intent, without any merit behind it.

    I do find it kinda funny that some people flame others for fighting a lost cause, while fighting one themselves. Sure as rain will come, there will be another kid wanting to make an MMO. Even more so, some day some of those kids will actually learn to make an MMO.
     
  15. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    +1

    Our mummies dont need to go tell off the other childrens mummies about how they behave. take some leave some, move on. if you are the OP and feel 'bullied' it should give you more initiative to execute your product, which there is a huge lack of in these forums.
     
  16. jtadeo1

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    I agree with the OP and there really is no need for that.

    Everyone starts out starry-eyed and everyone at one point was a noob. It's an exciting time when you're just learning and some of the comments are just too harsh. No need for that people. At some point they'll figure out how difficult it is and most likely will feel a bit embarrassed at the possible presumptousness about their MMO post.

    I remember when I started in the industry and it was hard because I did get people telling me I was going to fail and getting comments that were less than encouraging.

    I use to make pizzas for a living.
     
  17. rik338

    rik338

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    We all have diffrent idea's. However this has to stop, we are adults.
     
  18. CharlieSamways

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    Farts are still funny to any age. :3
     
  19. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    Actually no, it quits being funny after you get older. Just like all the threads where people are going to steal some IP, make a MMORPG based off of it, and it'll be OK, because they're not "doing it for profit". I can't even go in the collab section any more without my gut hurting from all the nonsense posters.
     
  20. mgear

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    ^ this!

    all of those topics would be buried in few hours,
    if the self-proclaimed forum sheriffs Noob Patrols wouldnt bother about those topics.

    Noobs of today are the Pro's tomorrow..no need to beat them up everywhere.
     
  21. rik338

    rik338

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    That's just bollocks, and ur trying to get yourself out of this.
     
  22. CharlieSamways

    CharlieSamways

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    Get myself out of what?
     
  23. npsf3000

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    On the topic of disagreeable and immature posting...

    WE HAVE A WINNER!

    Seriously though, think before you post?
     
  24. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I do like fart jokes and I'm almost 40.
     
  25. Starsman Games

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    My mother likes fart jokes and she is.... darn... I have no clue.... 70ish?
     
  26. Acumen

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    You can easily report such posts.
    I made the experience that mods react superquick when you report threads/posts because of certain violations of the rules. Much more constructive than posting in these threads over and over again. I prefer to give others that really care for their projects and do a proper posting in the forums a chance to be on top of the forums, instead of such soon-to-be-dead-wannabes.
    I'm not doing it too often, since I learned to just read by certain comments or threads, but sometimes I think it's appropriate and within a timespan of 5 minutes actions are being taken by one of the mods, which is a superbe job by these guys, if you ask me :)
     
  27. rik338

    rik338

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    Would be alot of reporting.
     
  28. Mr.T

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  29. Acumen

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    Nobody needs to be forum police and report every thread.
    Like I said, from time to time I'll do it and it does wonders for my blood pressure.
    But there will always be people concentrating on the weird and bad threads instead of the awesomenes others have to offer. You can never change that. Everybody post in such threads from time to time though, trying to state an example and it mostly fails. Check out how charles started off ;)
    Anyways, was discussed over and over again in each and every forum around the world :)
     
  30. PrimeDerektive

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    Nice straw man. But please quote an real post where you think someone is being legitimately "bullied" (which I'm not sure you actually know the meaning of). Methinks you're being hypersensitive.

    It stinks of that generation y bullshit where any input that isn't complimentary or encouraging is insulting and everyone deserves a trophy even if they fail.
     
  31. rik338

    rik338

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    Having a fun now and then is good forsure, but it's getting worse.
     
  32. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Well said, legend. It's a major worry if the future is full of people who can't actually do anything for fear of offending.
     
  33. Mr.T

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    If you have health problems, then that is serious. I think it is best to use the ignore feature. I fully understand where you are coming from. Sometimes the back and forth can really get to you if you have health problems like that.

    Unfortunately though the real world does have its fair share of teenagers who want to create the next awesome FPS and we, the oldies will have to learn to deal with it.
     
  34. GiusCo

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    business collaboration part of the forum should be really improved imho and closed to unknown quantities
     
  35. andorov

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    You have made a post. +10 ACHIEVEMENT POINTS.

    Back to the point... the "bullying" on this forum is pretty tame. Even those that are outright hostile at least maintain some modicum of civility. I've yet to see a profanity laden thread. A lot of the people making threads on the collaboration forum are completely clueless.

    Generally speaking, complete beginners usually need some guided teaching, like in grade school. And teaching usually involves both positive and negative stimuli. If you look at the collaboration and showcase forums, there are many encouraging, positive posts. There are also negative posts.

    There is balance in the force.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  36. TylerPerry

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    I was looking at a review of physynth and in the comments some one said they dident like it and you said something along the lines of "i am a human to and have feelings" so do posters in these forums, it hurts. to be honnest i dont see you doing it much but still

    Must we realy troll them (i admit i have trolled) what makes it better for us to shut there dreams down, then them trying and failing atlest with the second they get some experiance
     
  37. DanielQuick

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    I wouldn't say that there is too much bullying/trolling, but there definitely is an excess of useless posts.
     
  38. CharlieSamways

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    *looks around, and draws eyes back to this thread*
     
  39. TehWut

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    sorry, I had to reply. this was freakin hilarious. Ever been to RottenTomatoes? you'd be surprised how a simple movie opinion can ignite an ubelievably immature flame war.

    I used to push for this anti -bully brigade untill I realized that Collaboration is good for lightening the mood. Honestly, I stressed all over it untill I realized that everyone would still go about making pointless threads and have no idea what they're doing ,no matter what. If they don't want to even do a sliver of research, then I think they deserve a little bit of "tough love". ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  40. rik338

    rik338

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    I saw that movie, at the end i felt trolled anyhow. But keep in mind this forum isn't made for flamming nor trolling.
     
  41. JRavey

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    QFT
     
  42. TehWut

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    I know that. I'm just saying, considering the state of the Internet, bullying and hating could be much worse. :p
     
  43. rik338

    rik338

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    It shouldn't be anything close to that on a game engine forum.
    But i get your point.
     
  44. npsf3000

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    Someone say comic relief?

    How the F*** did I waste and time and effort by adding an extra m to the name?

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/116475-Looking-for-a-modeller-to-join-our-group.

    -----

    Seriously though if people persist in making ridiculous threads... they will continue to be laughed at. While there are options, such as reporting offending posts, it misses the crux of the matter: That the OP's haven't got the foggiest idea of what they are doing!

    The inability to handle a few questions, let alone critiques, in a professional manner is not indicative of a huge bullying problem, but rather complete inability to have a dialog with your prospective workforce! Sometimes what may seem as a troll to an 'wannabee' can be a serious question posed by people with significant resources to commit. Failing to respond appropriately leads to thread degradation - which is exactly what will happen to your project .

    Not that this applies to every post, but it's an entirely aspect that, given the link of the earlier 'offending' thread, some here haven't quite grasped.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  45. LordJulian

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    Hmm, so this is the point when we were told that we're going too far....
    Well, had to say that I salute the OP for making a stand with the new members in the collaberation forum. But I have to disagree with the idea that we're actually "bullies" (Yes, I've actually made a comment in that MMO thread, so I'm considered one)

    Constructive critism is one thing, a blatant thread with no concrete evidence of any decent progress is a surefire way to invite speculation and doubt among the community. Sure, the community should be friendly and amiable towards new members, but I think thats exactly the point some over-confident upstart would get blinded by the generosity and post something that would eventually be a shambles.

    We shouldn't punish people for being ambitious, but certainly there is a problem on people's heads if one would think just because he has ample experience on a particular skill like programming or game design and that qualifies that he/she can make an MMO.

    yet.

    We certainly dont need to feed them baby food and sing them a story just because they made a boo-boo many times over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  46. hippocoder

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    That's actually marketing 101 :) You reach out to your customers. That is in no way related to how I feel, but breaking down barriers so my customers can talk to me and give me feedback. I wasn't in the slightest bit offended. This works, and it's important to talk to your customers and listen to them. I do listen to them and respect them.

    However on the unity thread we find that there is a random kid promising the second coming, and then getting upset because people are questioning him. How is that the same as reaching out to a customer of a finished sold product?

    These people are my living. Of course I'm going to be gentle with them and listen to them. As far as I'm concerned, there's no actual parallel between me being humble to potential customers, and a kid that is being over sensitive for doing something wrong (and he was wrong).
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  47. JRavey

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    But Hippo, the ULTIMATE!!!! MMO!!! could also be your living. Think of it, the big leagues. You'll be rich off of royalties.
     
  48. tatelax

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    I fully support this thread. The MMO threads should not be taken down, but Mods should simply remove hurtful posts as soon as they can.
     
  49. JRavey

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    I fully support not letting Unity Free posters start threads in Collab. =/
     
  50. tatelax

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    Worst idea ever.
     
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