MERGED - all splash screen discussion

You're really making this "democracy" look bad now.

 

I'm not. I've explained above. Certainly, all moderators will view your report, if that helps. If you have an issue with a moderator, please contact Aurore or Sara as they manage the community and moderators.

 

Oh, a threads Merge, is a great day

 

Yep, taking everyone's advice to merge, not lock (wherever possible!)

 

This is surely false logic on many fronts.

1) who MADE them "give us everything for free"...? the USERS, or was it their competitors?

2) the difference in what was "free" before and what is "free" now never seemed to be based in technology limitations (for example: Pro cost more because it licenses technology from companyX and widgets from companyZ -- I am not aware that this was the case)

3) Asset Store is not the only source of income. Unity Ads, Pro licenses, venture capital, if you have some accounting info we don't have...? UNITY demands access to our financial records, should that work both ways?

4) Millennials who grew up with "free" music and "freemium" games probably have very little innate sense of how ANY economy actually works. If you are not paying for a service you are the PRODUCT, not the customer.

5) no one on stage at the Unity presentation looked hungry or held a cardboard sign begging for handouts. Can we stop pretending that corporate elites are suffering or poor? That's just grotesque. Look around in your neighborhood, I'll bet there are people FAR MORE deserving of our sympathy.

6) in a world where ALL game engines are free, and most GAMES are "free"-ish, do we need to feel grateful for one more free thing? Or is it just expected at this point?

7) Plenty of 3rd parties are now featured within Unity (Allegorithmic, SpeedTree, etc) but using their products is not "free". In some ways Unity has become a MARKETPLACE and users are constantly told they might win the lottery with another simplistic generic taptap game.... How is that realistic?

Eyes open, guys. Unity is a very well financed corporation, not your mother. No need to get teary-eyed worrying about her on these cold winter nights.

 

[funny]

If venture capital would be income you could use venture capital to pay back venture capital. Oh forgot, yes you can do that, it is called Ponzi scheme.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
[/funny]

 

Yes, usually. I like to have a piece or more of bread with pretty much every meal. Then I rip it into small pieces and put parts of the other food on those and eat the result. If I don't have bread I'll use a potato chip, a piece of lettuce, whatever as a substitute. So basically I make everything into a sandwich however I can, and sometimes they're tiny.

 

i'm not trying to slight pro users in any way, however i can only speak from my own heart in my own situation. if/when i feel the pro version outweighs what i get or need from the 'non' pro version, i will upgrade. but shouldn't that be based on solely what's offered for pro? *not* for something you dislike in 'non' pro?

i have *always* hated applications that use nag screen tactics, and 'irritate' games. you know the ones where they make you have to buy coins/gems/sparkles/whatever to speed up building things etc.

the additional wording, while some might not care, carries negative connotations for me, and as a developer i need to feel comfortable, or at least be able to live with the decisions i make or need to make. being basically forced or shamed into making one on something that is so obviously contrived, would only serve to make me secretly resent UT for making me have to upgrade over that.

my main point here, is that whatever my relationship is with unity is already covered in the licensing and is basically no one's business but my own and UT's. but yeah sure, let's advertise that on a splash screen.

ultimately? UT will make money if/when i make money, and i'll be glad to pay them. if not, no harm no foul. *that's* democratizing game development.

 

I'm glad the threads got merged because it was confusing following different convos... Let's just merge ALL the threads so I only need to click once...

 

There you go, Ony!

 

It's a shame that this has to be repeated, because it has been stated so clearly so many times. But once more, for the record, the issue is not that they let our customers know that we are using a free version. I couldn't care less about that. The issue is that they are forcing us to put a word that literally means "not a business" on my software when I am trying to build a business. The issue is that they are putting a word that, on pretty much every other piece of software, means "not for commercial use" on our commercial products. It's a simple request for a wording change. Words may change meanings, but changing the meaning of those words shouldn't be a thing that we have to do. The people who use a word should know what it means when they use it. "Words change meanings" could easily apply to any of the joke names that people have put forth. That doesn't mean I want to change the meaning of the word "freeloader" or "feminine hygiene product" or any of the other ones mentioned.

If Unity is confident in their engine, then they should be doing as much as they can to help us get to the $100k mark so that we have to pay them. To be honest, before all this, I'd gladly have paid them before that mark. Putting a term on the splash that makes us want to pay is the opposite of that. It tells me that they don't really think enough people will get to $100k to make it worth it. If that is the case, then they shouldn't have made it free. The company that shan't be mentioned clearly thinks enough of their users and their engine to believe that 5% is enough for them to earn a decent income. Unity lowering the limit to $50k in income before the need to buy pro would put them at around the same level. That would be a much better option to me than something that a clearly large group of people consider to be damaging to business.

When Unity responds, if they say that they empathize and explain why they won't change it, then I'll probably just deal with it until I can afford pro. But if they adopt the "take it or leave it" attitude that some here have, then I'll be leaving it. I have choices now, and the 5% tax seems a lot less in exchange for a technology partner that treats me with a little bit of respect. My work is the work of my business. It is how I feed myself. I don't feel that the word "personal" conveys that. And my only allegiance is to what I think is best for my own brand. This industry is a huge uphill battle as it is. We don't need to make it any harder by having to redefine misused words.

 

*abso-freaking-lutly* hemi. well said.

 

We must all keep in mind... U5PE is just an option. Nobody is forcing us to use it. I completely get the association of "Personal Edition" with a "for Personal use only" learning edition not intended for releasing works to the world. Still the way the Personal Edition makes Unity money is by providing an incentive to upgrade to Pro. They also seem to be moving strongly into serving ads such as is illustrated by Crossy Road earnings. I am not sure how the PE helps with that but anyway... bottom line as I see it is nobody is making us use U5PE. I have not even downloaded it yet. Still using 4.6 and if I felt as strongly as many people do about the Personal Edition wording I would just never download it. Just throwing this out for consideration. If you hate it don't use it. Problem solved.

 

What that guy said (hemi)

 

Exactly.

 

It's kind of backwards how it works right now anyway. The chances that a small developer earning under $100,000 are developing a PC game are much smaller than the chances of them developing a mobile game. So if you want to make a cheap mobile game you have to pay for free 3 times, but if you want to make a AAA PC game you only have to pay for it once.

Without splash screens i mean.

 

I don't hate it. Hate is a strong word. As I've said, I've already begun converting Imperial Nostalgia over because I think the features are worth the trade off. But I do have concerns about the usage of the word. As do a lot of people. If all of those people opt to not use it, the problem is solved for us, but they've only just begun for Unity. Unity took a gamble making so much available for free. Pushing people away over a simple word, people who will then never give them $1500, never buy another Asset Store product, never put another product on the Asset Store to sell, never recommend Unity over the competition again, would be stupid. What value does that word have to them that matches what they stand to lose with a "take it or leave it" attitude?

 

What about those people (for example @Waz) who purchased Unity 5 Pro, but when deploying on mobile, gets "Personal Edition". Haven't those folks "made an investment"?

We get value from the money we exchange with Unity for Pro. Are you saying that removing 2 words has a value of $1500 (or 3k for both android and ios)?

 

...then when they "change" it six weeks later - to remove the thing that has never been there before - we all cheer and say how awesome they are for listening to their customers! YAY!

 

@bigdaddy: nope. not in a sane world anyway.

 

this is Exactly the point of it. Give away the boat, but spray-paint POSER on the side. How fast will you get it repainted/ go pro before you dare take your colleagues for a ride? You imagine the affect on developer's professional self-image was lost on UT? I love non-business people. They probably imagine that 'the democratization of games' was a goal, not a tactic.

 

A pretty safe bet on UT's part. Folk just making games to sell on Steam or iTunes will go for it, but exactly how many small companies who create B to B products with Unity will opt to have that 'Personal Edition' slapped onto their client's projects. Imagine delivering a client the new build with that Scarlett letter on the splash.

 

i'd honestly like an answer to my previous question: regardless of whether the text is on the splash or not, if i use unity and publish, aren't i already committed to the license? afaik, the users didn't write the license terms, UT did. so if 100k is threshold, then that's what it is.

how in any way does that text help me to achieve that goal? tbh, i'd feel just as uncomfortable with:

made with Unity
this dev is the greatest in the world

it just doesn't belong.

and i'll say it yet once more: if UT want to let me know what a loser they perceive me to be because i haven't upgraded to pro yet with a splash screen that comes up in the editor? fine. i get it. but for every end user that will ever see anything i make with it?

yeah, that's a bit much..

'nuff said..

 

No need to thank me:

​

 

lol

hehe you could even denote versions by:

• roast beef
• ham
• turkey
• sprout
• lettuce
• tomato

 

I'm full just by looking at it.

 

I agree with you and was not directing that at you. Just mean in general. Equally for myself. The best way everyone can show how important something is in a case like this may be to simply not use it. At this point many people including myself have expressed why those 2 little words are causing such a reaction. Unity can clearly see the reasoning now. These are very valid concerns. If it was a paid product people could vote with their money or rather by spending no money. As a free product people can vote by not using it.

 

I don't think vegans would be happy with those, especially if the vegetarian option is only available in pro.

 

If you shop in our grocery store we will let you use our very sophisticated shopping carts with wheels that turn and baby seats and everything!!! WOOOOOOOO! The freemium paradise!

 

seems confusing to me....

before all of what... that the splash screen now says "personal edition"? but when it said (whatever is said previously) you would have been glad to pay long before you reached 100k?... so what exactly is the problem then.. shouldn't you have already paid and this would all be a moot point.

are you a personal edition user? you got the cake and most of the icing too compared to before.
are you a pro user? (as in, own the license)... and you are upset about getting the "personal edition" tagged on your mobile builds? ok... a justifiable gripe.

I honestly don't get it.... you want to look professional with your products, that I DO get... and perhaps "before" with the splash screen, it gave that impression to customers (as you could always follow the splash with your own company logo). IMO though, just pull your big boy pants up and get the pro license.

 

hehe true, i edited it to be inclusive


hehe btw, i'm not going to make tomato sandwich users have to display text that reads "non-meat eating version"

 

Uh oh... Someone pulled the "big boy pants" card.

 

you don't find your comment in any way, condescending or elitist? just asking..

 

not really... it's an honest question about the validity of "appearances."

 

My 2 cents: You have to understand how people perceive you. In this case, people already have a perception of Unity games, whether it's a good or bad perception. In this case, it's already been tainted. People who are even somewhat experienced with playing games, when they see Unity, they automatically think "low quality". I'm not saying that is true (because it isn't in every case), but that is honestly what people think. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that's not reality.........but that's not being honest.

You also have game reviewers now that heavily influence your "clientelle" and your consumers. People listen to these reviewers whether they know what they're talking about or not. And I know several popular reviewers who "poo-poo" the game as soon as they see it's a game made with Unity free edition (or now personal edition). People are saying this will never affect your bottom-line. If people live in a cave and never seek out reviews before purchasing a game, then maybe it won't. But a large amount of people actually try to research the game a little bit before they purchase. And reviewers are a big part of this.

So, I write all this to say, I think having the words "Personal Edition" IS a negative. It connotes "amateur", "low-quality", "lazy", "un-proffesional", and the like. Even though that's not true for someones particular game.......it's reality. Thus, I think people are simply acknowledging reality, and saying having the words "Personal Edition" will affect their game negatively.

 

@tswalk: then you haven't read the entire thread. there are some very smart and considerate options/opinions/comments that address exactly what you just asked..

 

You seem to think I can just pull $1500 out of my pocket. I can't. With finances as they are currently even $75 a month would put a hurting on me. I held out on mobile for far too long after that platform became impossible to earn a living on, because I kept thinking I could get back to the comfortable living I had in the early days. Of course, my finances aren't any of your concern.

By "before all this", I meant that I would give them money when I could afford it because I would want to support them. Them now doing something that I see as damaging to my brand in order to build up theirs zapped any of that desire right away. I may do it to get rid of the splash, but doing something because I feel forced to leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So I may switch to unreal for my next project. Or maybe see what Valve has to offer. I dunno. What I do know is the "I want to support Unity" feeling is gone.

I've supported myself for better or for worse for 6 years in a really tough business without having to regularly take on freelance work. I will continue to do so. I just don't know which engine maker will be by my side.

 

I asked Waz, but he tactically ignored my inconvenient question. That's exactly how it was in Unity 4, though he claims it wasnt. If you had Unity 4 Pro, but didn't have a mobile Pro add-on, you had that splash screen when you built for mobile. How is that different now? You get the same splash screen, that similarly lets your users know that you didn't use a Pro add-on to make your mobile build.

 

btw hemi, is that really your beard? it's absolutely beard-tastic <grin>

 

Haha. Yes, that's really my beard. Although that picture is a few years old so it's a bit longer now.

 

I bought Pro when it was about a lot more than just the splash screen. But ironically I kept the splashscreen because I am just learning and I think Unity is totally awesome. Now the features I wanted are free to everyone and Pro is ONLY about the splashscreen..., so I am learning how to hide it. LOLOL

By inventing this artificial difference between "Personal" and "Pro", and by deciding to reveal developer's finances to EVERY end-user, Unity opened itself up for this criticism. Rather than shaming people for complaining, just accept that this IS the issue that Unity has brought on itself. I assume they had reasons. I don't pretend to know what those reasons are. We'll see if those reasons hold.

 

I believe I answered you.

In Unity 4, android and ios Pro had added value - linking DLLs, etc. The splash screen was just another bullet point far down the list.

Now the splash screen is the ONLY bullet point. Every engine feature we paid for in Unity 4 Pro, is available in Unity 5 Personal.

Edited to add: @wetcircuit did a better job of answering, kudos

 

look folks, i know this thread is getting long, and i myself have contributed to make it that way, however it really *is* worth the read if you have thoughts about this issue.

again.

• it's not about having a splash screen
• it's not about having a splash screen with the words 'free edition' on it (although to be honest, since both are functionally the same now, that delineation doesn't really mean much imo)
• it's about having a splash screen with the words "personal edition" and the connotations therein. (there are various reasonings for and against)

so for new folks to the thread, read it, it's worth it

 

Unity 4 did not say PERSONAL EDITION as you well know and has been said by Waz and everyone else, so you continuing to pose the answered question as if it wasn't answered makes you seem either willfully ignorant or just deliberately troll-y. He has said he was ok with the splash screen that did not say "Personal Edition". Presumeably EVERYONE Is ok with a splashscreen that doesn't say 'Personal Edition".

This question HAS BEEN ANSWERED.

 

I am embarassed too...by the folks that come in here that do not even have a leg in this issue and basically imply that you are supporting our projects, that you are better than us, that you are so important.

I know that isn't true, but it doesn't help to see how this community is affected by that in a negative way.

Yesterday, this community came together to go to Unity in a proper, good, fair way to ask them to do something that would help them and us. I was and am proud of them. BTW, we were asked to go to Feedback by Unity folks. We did things properly. We did not INSULT anyone in the process. Many pro users supported us and I am sure still do.

Today, the people who feel they are superior because they can afford to buy a Pro License ruined the community on this. They are the ones who should be ashamed. They had NOTHING to win or lose with this but just have to make sure that we are "different" and stay in our place. Sad. These very same people who whine because they feel they lost value when Unity went free have the right to call us petty?

Had I bean a single developer, I would have bought pro months ago. But I am not. I have a team, the money for more pro licenses would come out of my personal income. I want a larger team so finding more developers would mean more licenses. I could not afford that so we stuck with Free. We were ready to buy 2 licenses and a student one for my son when the announcement was made. We could not afford more so other team members would not be able to touch Unity.

Now our entire team and be part of the development. We have spent money in the asset store and will turn around and spend the money we saved in the asset store. I sure hope none of you have assets I want, because I would hire someone to rebuild it before I bought YOUR assets! LOL Sorry, just can't help myself.

So....I would be curious how many of you who think that us asking for a simple change to the splash screen, and honestly I would be very happy with Standard or even Free, is ridiculous actually have team members whose Pro versions come out of your personal income and where you make less than 100k from your Unity Pro version?

I have absolutely no use for the current Pro features. I don't use mobile at all, just desktop. Even if they don't change the splash screen I will NOT spend the money for Pro. It would be financially foolish to spend that much money for just a few words. I also like the light Editor so wouldn't pay for that either. What I might do though is find a use for some of the add-ons later on, the cloud service, the Analytics which sound very cool.

Unity gave this to us until our income was higher. They did not do this to make us the low people on the totem pole. I think they will change the splash screen to something that won't make us look like we are releasing games made on a private, personal edition not meant for commercial use because they believe in us and it is the right thing to do.

The only thing that separates us now is the additional services. Not all of us need those and it is foolish to pay for something we don't need. Pro and Personal game editors and features are exactly the same. Personal Edition belongs on the editor version to remind us that we have future obligations to Unity if we go above the restricted income levels. It is not to make sure our future publishers, investors, and customers know we are lame and not worthy.

 

Exactly! You've got all the features of mobile Pro add-ons FOR FREE without paying a freaking cent. Yet you bitch and moan that the list of all the cool mobile PRO features that you got FOR FREE doesn't include one single thing - the custom splash screen.

Yeah, it did not say that. But the splash screen was still there, and was still a giveaway that you're using Unity Free for mobile builds.
Waz isn't arguing that Personal means "Not commercial" or anything similar. He whines that he made the game with pro, but the mobile builds still display the splash. Yet that's exactly how it was in 4 and that is totally logical to me. He made THAT MOBILE BUILD with Unity Personal.

I too am for the change, and I too want "Personal Edition" to be removed. But if you're making a point, don't use ridiculous claims.

 

I'm sad that my 'unity sandwich edition edition' did not make the cut. But I forgive you, I know your job here is hard enough

Reminds me of using potato chips, lettuce and tomato to turn my middle school lunch of a normal sandwich & a bag of chips into a series of small lettuce and tomato sandwiches Ah, memories. I wonder if tiny sandwich making is some sort of trait...

 

not at all, I too am in the same boat...

agreed.

ok, so you were able to support yourself with the free product. I respect that (while I may come off as a jackass to some folks). I won't dissect this, but could easily; however, if you want to avoid my critique of finances. I'll ignore it.

ok, there. "damaging to my brand" I get this, I honestly do. I've even stated in previous threads to just get rid of the forced splash screen for free users... even as a pro user. It wouldn't bother me at all as I have no customers nor products to speak of that could be impacted by an "appearance" of equal competition and let it ride on the content and quality of the actual product. If it ends up being a sh!t game, at least then Unity doesn't have a water mark splashed all over it.

thanks for clarifying.

 

Wowsers, lots of debate here!

I have a quick theoretical question for everyone, if the Unity 5 Personal Edition retained the splashscreen, but was changed slightly, would you be happier?

If so, what change would you make?

 

Hahaha! Who did it? Why is that here now xP

@hippocoder , @Andy Touch ... was it one of you? Whoever it was, thank you

Sandwich Edition Edition lives! <3

 

The splash screen itself (cube logo and "made with unity" text) is really nice and not a problem at all

Remove "Personal Edition" from it or replace it with something else. I feel like this has been said a thousand times, did you read the topic? :v

 

Fine, I merged that too. Had to reset and edit poll

 

No, I don't appreciate that I buy a Pro license but when deploy to mobile I get a "Personal Edition" splash. If it was that splash without those 2 words I'd have no qualms. I have no problem having a Powered by Unity splash.