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Medieval Male Customisable Character - Arteria3d BasePack RELEASED

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by arteria, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. sanpats

    sanpats

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    Alternatively, instead of using built-in transparent shader in Unity, some third party shader can be used without the above-mentioned issue. I read it somewhere but too lazy to search for it.

    May be this? http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/41007-Transparent-Diffusr-shader-problem.-Done.
     
  2. sanpats

    sanpats

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    Why don't you just check the models after exporting it? Open the file in Unity and 3d app and atleast check each model (it just 17 model) shouldn't take very long.

    Export into separate file will make it even more difficult to stitch it together at runtime.

    Anyone can share the script to assign new bone to a skinned mesh, in case Steve decide to export each model separately?
     
  3. poboczny

    poboczny

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    3ds max isnt the only program that can handle many things + it is expensive. / although someone may use it already :p
    3d programs even the free ones are nicely done and can be handled with all the options of low/high poly - texturing - animations or such things :)
     
  4. arteria

    arteria

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    I think having each costume and it's component parts as sep unique meshes was the incorrect way to do things. Like jekdy mentioned, or hinted at, the splitting of torso and legs limited some of the scope of the pack. I think it would be fa better to have just 2 base meshes. One for naked body and one with clothing bulk. As most chain mail is body tight, the naked version could have texture variations, and the bulked up version could be used for all clothing variations. All armour would then be sep meshes rigged on top. I started this idea with the female prototype I started, and so long as I retain the same edge loops around body and armour pieces(doesn't need to apply to rigid metal armour) the base pack would be more manageable and easier to use for everyone.

    Good how problems shared here, actually inspire me...I'm inspired

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  5. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    Maybe you could solve some of the problems with the visible seam between torso and legs by either ensuring all torso pieces extend a little bit past the waist and overlap the pants, or by making a new "belt" piece that goes over the waist and covers the seam.
     
  6. makeshiftwings

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    That custom shader in your link didn't fix it (It made the transparent parts make the diffuse parts behind them invisible). However, following the advice in the thread, it DOES work if you set the shader to Transparent/Cutout/Diffuse. At least the Stormlands Pants look correct with Cutout/Diffuse, I haven't tested all of them.
     
  7. makeshiftwings

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    Here's the hole in Thief Torso that I mentioned:



    I made the shader brighter to make it easier to see. If you rotate around the model you'll see there's a dent where the belt strap caves in.
     
  8. Legacy

    Legacy

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    Steve you could just have a base mesh and add in textures for clothing variations and then create armor peices and export them seperately. I think this will solve your problem and make it much easier to export new variations of the pack. Who cares if you have a few extra vertices in your scene, this pack is designed towards pc and game consoles not mobile devices. If you do it this way people can do mesh deformation to allow players to customize their characters looks and body types instead of having issues where alligning vertices and then doing mesh deformation later could cause holes in the mesh and just gets plain messy. Look at skyrim for example, they have base meshes for the classes, add clothing textures for the base mesh so the character is not truly naked when not wearing armor and then attach the armor to the correct bones. Obviously you would need to export each peice of armor with the bone weight data included but thats not too hard. Fortunately unity has created a nice example to show you how you can use asset bundles to load bone data for character parts.

    Here is a link to that example:
    http://unity3d.com/support/resources/example-projects/charactercustomization

    and here is an image of what i mean:

    http://www.legacyonlineentertainment.com/GameImages/TESV 2012-04-17 19-08-53-40.jpg


    http://www.legacyonlineentertainment.com/GameImages/TESV 2012-04-17 19-10-05-17.jpg
     
  9. makeshiftwings

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    If you do it that way though, you need to make sure each armor piece actually fits around the base mesh. For example, currently, if you turn on the base arms or base hands and also some of the armor or gloves, the base arms and hands will stick through the armor because the arms and hands are actually bigger than the armor and gloves.
     
  10. poboczny

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    Hey now - these screen is what I want to achive :p
     
  11. arteria

    arteria

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    Efraser, great model there - i could easily provide a base in that style, but then if its just one base mesh, although this would be great for deforming the body shape, at the players discretion, all clothing would have to be skin tight, which would look a little odd.
    Do you not thing a version with just perhaps 4 versions - naked body as above(well partially clothed), then e versions of clothing with various bulking looks

    Best

    Steve
     
  12. Legacy

    Legacy

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    well the way that it seems to work in skyrim is there is a base mesh with underwear(refering to the pic i posted) and then the armor as just added on top of the base mesh when your deforming the mesh it should also deform the children or the armor that is attached. so technically all you need is one base mesh and then add underwear like in that reference screenshot as a seperate peice so that you can destroy it or turn it off when you attach armor to the legs etc. I see no problem with mesh deformation if you just use a single base mesh, again if you reference the screenshot none of the clothing is actually part of the base mesh it is just fitted onto the base mesh model and the only texture on the base mesh is the skin with body hair etc. The hair is actually a seperate mesh aswell so if you look at the ulbrin kit being made you can see that the hair styles are actually seperate models that fit on the head. You do not need to worry about mesh deformation that is our job to worry about. just make sure that there are no holes in the base mesh and that the armor etc is exported with bone weights and everything(of course this will hinder unity free users as they cannot use skinned mesh renderers i do not beleive) but this will allow for a much more professional look and feel and overal quality of the pack allowing for a higher sale price being that everything conforms professionally.

    So to go over my massive paragraph above here are some key things:

    - Make sure the base mesh is only one single mesh with no hair or clothing, only the skin texture and body features etc.
    - Create some underwear models such as in my reference images and fit them to the character, export it with the base mesh with all animations and rig(preferably on a single timeline as split fbx files kind of suck when you wanna add new animations.)
    - Create models for armor and equipment that fits the base mesh and shares the bone and weight information. Export these seperately from the base mesh.
    - Create any clothing make it as baggy or tight as you want(fortunately unity has a very nice cloth physics engine so you could do some really cool things with it.)
    - Create any hair styles and make sure they fit the head of the base mesh(these really do not need bone weight data but would definately be a plus if you add hair animation. Another cool idea is to make a few hair styles with multiple pieces such as a pony tail style and let unity do the animation work.)

    The way it would work in unity is when it is imported you can load the bone data and assign bones etc with skinned mesh renderer's atleast this is what i have found the example that unity provided to do. As i stated that example is very nice and uses asset bundles to store and load bone information onto character parts etc. It actually seems like a pretty simple solution and you could do much more with it than you can currently do with the current pack and will allow you to export new sets of equipment more often and easily as it would all fit into the current scheme and you would not have to worry about some people using a single fbx and some people using custom systems as it would all be part of a single solution. I could work with you on this to get a nice customizable character kit into unity and working and would allow you to ship the solution with the character kit if you would like.
     
  13. arteria

    arteria

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    Hi

    Thanks for posting.

    So, your saying, dont weigh or attached bones to any addon baggy clothing? Unity will sort that out with its physics? If so, how does that work

    Best

    Steve
     
  14. Legacy

    Legacy

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    http://vimeo.com/album/261920/video/13697338

    enjoy :) its actually pretty simple to setup.
     
  15. arteria

    arteria

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    Ill check that out now -
    From what you describe, this is the perfect solution, one that will allow me hinder free to work with a far more manageable pack

    Would be good to work you on this also
     
  16. l0cke

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  17. jedy

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    That depends on the settings, the users machine and a bunch of other factors. The performance impact may vary from low to huge.

    There are plenty of games which utilize clothing simulation, even some with not that big of requirements.

    In the worst case scenario it could be turned off by the user.
     
  18. arteria

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    IN this case then, is the baggy clothing items not a good idea? Should there be 3-4 base torsos - Naked, then 3 with variations of clothing bulk?
     
  19. makeshiftwings

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    I think you're right about Skyrim, though leaving the base mesh always on is relatively new in games, now that extra triangles aren't as big a deal. In Oblivion and Morrowind, the body parts were all separate and were turned off when an armor piece was added. This helped performance because you'd turn off the hand mesh when there was a glove mesh, but it led to problems similar to Steve's pack, where there were visible seams between the wrist and the hand. Leaving the base mesh on has its own benefits though, namely that you can create armor that shows skin rather than always having to cover the entire body part.

    I'd agree that having a solid naked or underweared base mesh with armor pieces on top of it would be good, but that might take a long time, and I'd rather see fixes to the current release like that hole in the thief torso and the bad waist/spine twisting in the running and combat idle animations.

    I guess the easiest way to get the skyrim look if steve wanted would be to add a naked chest and legs/feet to the existing naked arms and hands, and then stitch it all together along with the head. Then tweak all the armor pieces to make sure that they are bigger than the body parts they cover so that there's isn't clipping. Like I mentioned earlier, doing this with the current base arms and hands wouldn't work because currently some of the armored arms and gloves are smaller or shaped differently than the base arms and hands, which results in the base clipping through the armor.
     
  20. arteria

    arteria

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    IM going to be reviewing all this and make some firm decisions over the next few days. I actually have a base human body with nice muscular physique, that could be used as this base mesh, then all i would need to do for all the armour addonds would be to separate them out of the main kit, and rig the new base mesh to them.. that is actually not that difficult. For the clothing variations i have, thats the issue of thought... to provide unrigged clothing to add yourself with physics, or to make 3-4 bulk meshes

    Steve
     
  21. makeshiftwings

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    I think most of the existing torsos you have are great, they just need to be fixed up and tweaked to make sure they fit around the base torso and don't clip with the other pants/arms pieces. The leather, plate, elven, etc., are all really good looking; you shouldn't just give up on them.
     
  22. arteria

    arteria

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    IM not giving up on them... Plate, elven, ar easy to apply to a base torso as they are rigid metal as such.
    The leather, thief etc, could be used also on the bulked up Torso version of the new base mesh

    Steve
     
  23. Legacy

    Legacy

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    About the baggy clothing, weight them correctly all im saying is for things sutch as tassles or peices of cloth that should be handled with cloth physics could be left untouched and could be easily simulated in unity. And yes there are alot of games now with cloth simulation, even the new world of warcraft expansion is using it now.
     
  24. arteria

    arteria

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    Efraser, a little confused there

    you said weight correctly, then mentioned using physics - i wouldnt need to weight would i if we were using physics - and if i had to weight loose clothing around torso andlegs underneath, that could be very very hard to do, so no cut through happens
     
  25. Legacy

    Legacy

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    I just meant the main parts of the clothing weight and leave the parts that actually should be simulated such as tassles, flaps anything along those lines could be simulated with unity cloth physics.
     
  26. makeshiftwings

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    Well, the plate can't be totally rigid on the torso, it will still need to bend even if it's unrealistic so that it's not constantly clipping through your legs and arms. Skyrim's plate bends with the skeleton a bit as well.
     
  27. arteria

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    Yeah this is true, and so long as the edgeloops follow similar suit to the underneath mesh, they will weight the same, and not cut through.

    Thanks for all the input here.. much apreciated

    Steve
     
  28. sanpats

    sanpats

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    I'm not sure Skyrim put the cloth on base model, I still believe it use mesh swapping.

    Anyway, all AAA RPG I know in the past few years use mesh swapping without any noticeable seam. It's a matter of correctly weighting the vertex at connecting point with the exact same weight in both meshes.
     
  29. Monkeyfeatures

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    I'm glad to see everyone is basically coming to the same conclusions as I did about what needs fixing on this and I can tell Steve is working hard to fix it... there's no doubting its a tricky project though. No-one else has released anything like this to indie developers so lots of us are relying on it working to realise our dream games - I guess that's why some of these posts are a little emotional. I'm pretty sure the negative emotions will be completely outweighed by the positive ones when he does actually solve it though. I am really excited to try out the eyes and mouth movement for one thing :)

    From what I've seen of Steve's work (and I've seen most of it because I bought a membership) his skills and quality have got better and better over time and he's really dedicated to his work. There's no way I could have made all those great models myself and still had time to make a game.

    My recommendations would be pretty much the same as others have said, but I would say now might be a good time to invest in a good i7 PC with 8gb or more of RAM and a fast SSD disk.... it sounds like the time wasted on importing and exporting and things crashing could be reduced with a faster PC and that would allow more time for fixing up the models and making them a higher quality.

    As well as the bugs with the base characters, I've found many of the building models also have texturing issues and such...I know there is a temptation to bring out lots of new stuff, particularly if you need to drive sales to support the future development, but I think it might not be a bad idea to go back through the back catalogue and improve some of the textures, clean things up, add higher resolution and normal maps etc. because tuned up and perfected work will be just as likely to make new sales and get good feedback as new work, and most of the work is already done :)
     
  30. sanpats

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    It's all fine with all the talk about improvements and alternative ways on how to do customizable character models. But let focus on practical business side on things. We already have a product and many already paid for it, so instead of trying to find a new way of doing thing, let just fix the existing problem would be better IMHO. The transparent shader bug was solved I guess, but what about the chest hole in the thief torso? Fixing a few vertice on a model should take less than an hour, not months. Steve, I strongly suggest you to fix it before lauch a new model.
     
  31. arteria

    arteria

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    I agree with you on that sanpats. I check the thief today, and that weight problem doesnt exist in my 3d app version - im going to check this in unity shortly actually.

    The more i thought about doing things a brand new way, the more i was put off.. It would wake 2-3 months to do, so lets stick with the product we have and get it the best it can be

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  32. siflandolly

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    +1
     
  33. arteria

    arteria

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    Also, its been mentioned about multriack animations - but isntthis better? if i supplied as single track, then unity users would have to separate all animations to multitrack themselves

    Steve
     
  34. arteria

    arteria

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    Also on the exports, as i would rather supply at least as separate costume styles - Can somebody supply the script that merges all the parts together within unity. Im not tallking of mesh stiitching as such - im simply meaning a script that will combine all the separate imports

    Steve
     
  35. Rajmahal

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    I'm using the medieval pack in my game and I personally think it's great. The only gaps are in the animations. I had to add spell casting animations to mine and that covered it off for my needs. I personally think all Steve needs to do is just add more animations to the pack:

    - spell casting
    - different weapon options (2 handed, bow, crossbow, spear)
    - a few other gaps as others have mentioned for day to day activities

    For the price, you can't really expect Skyrim-like quality but to me it's close enough for most indie games. Just needs a few more animations to make it more versatile.
     
  36. makeshiftwings

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    Really glad to see there's some more work being done on this pack. I'm excited to see the fixes!
     
  37. makeshiftwings

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    Also, I opened the DAE export of the meshes in Blender and I see the problem with the thief torso in there as well. Here's a screenshot looking through the armhole, you can see the big spike inside where the one vertex is inside the torso causing the hole.

     
  38. sanpats

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    +1

    Better to focus on fixing this kind of error than trying to change the fundamental implementation. More economical.
     
  39. sanpats

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    Unless you can provide such a script, this way of exporting the models will make it much more difficult for non-advance users.
     
  40. Monkeyfeatures

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    I think it's important we have a fully naked base mesh... that's really missing... and properly interchangeable parts. At the moment many of the combinations just can't go together because of the way the mesh is split and it's not possible to show the bare chest etc. when changing outfits.

    In my opinion the best approach would be to make the naked base male and the naked base human, and then release the clothes as separate meshes that you just simply attach on top of it either in the editor or by code and then just have different materials for the base human.
    So you have the naked dude there... you want to add armour, you just change the material to the one that draws the chainmail onto the skin, and the attach the meshes for the plate etc onto the chest. The pack can be released with the parts already attached to game nodes so they can still be hidden/shown if desired, but can still be exported, edited, added or removed from the rig individually.
    It's only going to be a few lines of code to swap them at runtime and we can figure that out between us I'm sure.

    In theory, it should be way easier to release new clothes then because you can just release the skin files + armour sets individually and they can be attached and also many of the same clothes should be easily ported to the female because you just have to align the mesh and then squidge it in a bit at the sides and pull it out a bit on the chest.... things like robes etc don't have to be exactly contoured to the body.

    My suggestion would be to release the current one with the quick fixes for people to get on with... then work on making it like that.
     
  41. arteria

    arteria

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    New update as Version 2 being released later today - cant wait to show you all whats included.

    Steve
     
  42. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    Please, do not forget Unity package :s
     
  43. arteria

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    Yes, i will provide a unity package.

    Also the first addition addons for the pack are being released - Mage Class, and Roman Class
     
  44. arteria

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    Loaded into unity, and ironing out some last minute bugs that only showed up once i loaded it in.. small problems, but i want this release to be a solid release.

    Will upload tomorrow afternoon
     
  45. arteria

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    UnityPackage uploading to base char folder - Its size is just over 300meg, and upload is a little slow, so i would give it just over an hour from now.
    I will detail all fixes, changes, additions tomorrow on this forum.

    All normal maps, and correct lighting for specular highlights are already set up for you! Only a few omeshes dont have shaders set up, as these are meshes that you can use many different texture variations on, so you can choose, then apply the normal map for the specific texture your using, but all the main ones are done, and they look great!.
    One important tip too for using normal maps on the pack, and especially specular highlights, is to set the spec colour to the most dominant colour within the texture. For example, nice to use a blue colour(try tints of blue) on armour. For cloth that is mostly red for example, use a specula colour that has red in it. This way you aboid the plastic normal map look, by just using the default white colour

    3 weeks solid work.. hope everyone enjoys. Thankyou for everyones support. This pack is even closer to the expectations i set myself when initial creation started

    Best Wishes

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  46. jaeg

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    I see it just popped up on the server! When can we expect the other file formats to be uploaded as well?
     
  47. arteria

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    Its not quite finished uploading yet;. half done

    Other formats which make up this pack will be uploaded tomorrow
     
  48. arteria

    arteria

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    OFFICIAL RELEASE NOTICE Version2 June
    Its with great pleasure after 3 weeks solid work and great support from my customers that i have released version 2 of the medieval base male project.

    ProductPage:
    http://www.arteria3d.com/Medieval-BASE-Customisable-Character/Medieval-Base-Male/

    Fixes:

    Better geom weighintg and rigging
    Reduced cutthrough of meshes
    Reduced mesh ammount, by using texture changes on several costumes
    Fixed animation foot transform - previously right foot and all animation was suffering due to this

    New Features:
    Bow Animations Added
    Wizard Animations Added
    FULL HEAD RIG with control of mouth, eyes. Also blinking animation
    UNITY PACKAGE inclusion with Normal Map settings applied and correct lighting.

    New Character Classes:
    Mage
    Roman General

    See below for videos depicting the Head Rig, Mage, Roman and Bow
    http://www.arteria3d.com/Medieval-BASE-Customisable-Character/Medieval-Base-Male/

    HEAD RIG:



    ARCHER ANIMATIONS:
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2012
  49. sanpats

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    Great. Hope you will finish the female pack soon.
     
  50. arteria

    arteria

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    Ill keep you possted on it

    Best

    Steve