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Map Magic World Generator - a node based procedural and infinite game map tool

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Wright, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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  2. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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    I am doing it exactly as you show in video and have had it working correctly and did several different ones testing while following your tutorial and I had no issues. Once I got comfortable with the editor, tried the terrain shape I will need for my game and it started this??? This is all of a sudden. 16 bit gray scale etc. I also went back and tried a simple example again and got same thing. I can open your island one and do not get the issue.
     
  3. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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  4. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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    OK... tried this again. Simple drawn map. Here are the results. I think photoshop and I need to have a talk LOL Yours works fine. Any Idea what I might be doing wrong or another app that I might save .raw in. Gimp does not save .raw but instead data version which I know nothing about. A little confused as to why this is happening., I have done it several times successfully prior to this. Step One.png Step Two.png Step Three.png Step Four.png View attachment 234812 Step One.png Step Two.png Step Three.png Step Four.png View attachment 234812

    This is the image I am trying to use. upload_2017-6-14_6-47-42.png

    Apparently editing doubles previous images. ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  5. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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    Figured out issue with photoshop. Does not like 256/300. That I didn't notice. It has to be even at 256/256 or other size perhaps. All is well. Guess I can put away my revolver now lol.
     
  6. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    @Wright I'm enjoying the new features in MM 1.8, especially the MegaSplat integration. My game's performance increased dramatically after switching from RTP to MegaSplat, and it still looks great!

    I have a quick question about the new Noise generator. It has an option for the noise type: Unity, Linear, Perlin, and Simplex. Does the Unity type use the built-in Mathf.PerlinNoise() function? I ask because I'm concerned that someday Unity might update that function, causing it to return different results for the same input, which would cause my graph to generate different results.

    Since I will be relying on my graphs to always produce the same results for the same seeds to restore game state, this would be a very bad thing. I would prefer to use a function provided by MapMagic, since I can count on it being consistent between versions, and, if it's not, I will have the original source code to use to reproduce the old behavior.

    Is there any advantage to using Unity's noise generator over using the ones built into MM? Can you briefly describe the other noise types and what purposes they are best for? Thanks.
     
  7. jbooth

    jbooth

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    Glad your seeing a big speed boost from MegaSplat. One thing to be aware of with noise functions is that they often use aliasing as a way to generate the random numbers, and that the results of aliasing can be different on different processors; this is particularly true of GPU based noise functions, like those you see on ShaderToy. I haven't looked into which types of functions MM is using, but would be wary of expecting noise functions to return the exact same results across all processors and platforms unless they are carefully constructed to do so.
     
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  8. reocwolf

    reocwolf

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    so how does the store feature next to lock work?
     
  9. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    Wow, I had no idea! Thanks! That's very important and scary for me. My game will generate its world from a seed value using Map Magic, and each load will then apply any changes made to the world. So being able to produce the same world from the same seed is critical. But Map Magic is designed to work this way, so I imagine @Wright designed his noise functions to work the same across all platforms. At least I hope so. Thanks for the warning! And thanks for MegaSplat! I love it.
     
  10. neoshaman

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    It must be power of two aka 2^x
     
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  11. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    @Wright @jbooth I'm trying to figure out how to integrate MegaSplat with Map Magic, and I am also learning how MegaSplat works at the same time, so I may be missing something, but it seems like the MegaSplat output node will only output diffuse textures, since it only allows one texture array to be specified. Does it really not support height maps or normal maps? How about texture clusters? If these aren't supported, are either of you working on adding support? I really can't release my game with flat textures.

    Is there documentation or tutorials for integrating MegaSplat with Map Magic? What are the Noise Scale and Smooth Falloff controls for? How do I use the Wetness, Puddles, and Displace Dampen inputs? Thanks.

    EDIT: After re-reading parts of MegaSplat's manual and watching your video describing the integration when it was a WIP, I have a better idea of how to set things up. It looks like I need to combine the diffuse texture and the height texture into a single texture, with the height in the alpha channel, and I should see some relief in the terrain. I assume that's trivial for a Photoshop expert, but I'm not one. I only own Photoshop Elements and Pixelmator. Also, I'm still confused about texture clusters. Do the names in the MegaSplat output node refer to clusters or just textures?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  12. Wright

    Wright

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    That's right. It works a bit faster then MM's Perlin noise calculations.
    Here is what the noise looks with a single fractal iteration (Linear, Perlin, Simplex):
    NoiseLinear.jpg NoisePerlin.jpg NoiseSimplex.jpg
    Linear looks like a blurred image with random pixels, it has highly visible cells. But it is the fastest noise algorithm. Perlin looks similar to Unity one (since Unity uses similar algorithm). And simplex noise has hexagonal (or triangular) cells, it makes it look like made of black or white dots. Simplex noise produces the finest result, but it does not mean that it should be used everywhere - when using a fractal noise the difference is not so obvious, while generating speed vary greatly.

    Yep. I can't 100% confirm that Unity noise will work the same way on the different platforms since I'm note absolutely sure what's under the hood, but all of the other noise algorithms use the standard arithmetical and bit shift operations that should be equal for all of the platforms. I've ensured that the results are the same on Mac, PC, Android and iOS. I have not tested MM noise on consoles or more exotic platforms, so it would be cool to get feedback from users who work with them.

    The array that is assigned in MegaSplat output node has a cluster information. More then that, MegaSplat Output works only with the clusters, but not with the diffuse or normal textures directly. When you select a layer you pick the cluster name, not the texture one.

    By the default all of the pinned terrains are saved in scene, there is no separate .asset files for them. But with the store function terrain data could be saved as an .asset file, similar to the manually created Unity terrain. This could be handy when passing some terrains to another project or for reducing the scene size.
     
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  13. jbooth

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    You might want to ask the MegaSplat stuff over on my thread as to not muck up this one with MegaSplat stuff that I'm sure some don't care about. Basically, all a texture cluster is is a selection of textures that can be treated as one surface. You might have sand_01, sand_02, and sand_03, which are just variations on the same texture. Then when you paint (or choose that one in MM) it will vary which texture gets used based on a noise function (or angle/height if you prefer). This basically removes tiling issues, because the texture is constantly varying between multiple variants. You can have a cluster with just one texture in it, so if you only want to paint a single texture, you can do that too.

    MegaSplat supports a full PBR spec with multiple packing modes - these are offered to improve performance - but if you want to use more standard Unity style layouts you can. You only need to choose which cluster you want; the normals, etc, will come along with that choice.
     
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  14. Tommy-Core

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    Hey @Wright,

    Say, I want to make a big map. Like a complete world. How would I go about creating a scene that displays a world map, and at the same time use the same basic information to create snippets of that map for certain regions? There's no need to dive dynamically from the world map to a single area. More like: I start at the world map, click on one of the continents, and jump to a continent map. Next I click on a country, and jump to the country map. Then I click on a state, get to a state map, and there I click on a battlefield map and get taken to the battlefield, where the view is no longer an overview but detailed first person view.

    Any ideas or suggestions?

    Also, do you have any tutorial material on how to interact with MM by code?


    Cheers,
    Tommy
     
  15. Gunsrequiem

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    Does MM create terrain objects out of Voxeland? I ask because I have a spawning system that relies on the land being a terrain, versus Voxeland's mesh.
     
  16. Darren_Therrien

    Darren_Therrien

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    Yeah, I figured out that it was as simple as my map being rectangular while the Map Magic was square. I guess that is what happens when you are trying to do this on pain meds. LOL .Sprained shoulder.
     
  17. Dwight_Everhart

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    @dlevel I'm getting the bakeLightProbesForTrees error too. How did you resolve it?
     
  18. Dwight_Everhart

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    MM can generate Unity terrains or Voxeland voxels. If the spawning system must have a Unity terrain, then you won't be able to use it with Voxeland without modifying it.
     
  19. Wright

    Wright

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    Tommy-Core, you'll have to use two scenes with different MM objects (one for world view and one for the battlefield), but you still can use the same graph for them. Just make the world view resolution 8-16 or so times lower then the battlefield one - this way you will be able to pin all of the required terrains.
    And yes, I'd like to recommend turning off trees and objects outputs for the world graph.

    Gunsrequiem, MM does not require Voxeland to create the standard Unity terrains. It's a fully functional editor extension, and formerly was not even tied with Voxeland.

    Dwight_Everhart, this issue was fixed, and I plan to submit the fixed version today (along with a couple of other fixes). Here is a quick patch (copy to MapMagic\Main\Chunk.cs replacing the older file).
     
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  20. yrucrem

    yrucrem

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    Hello @Wright

    I just wanted to ask, if you already had a chance to take a look at my attached scene where I am having trouble reproducing the results of your graph (see my previous post)?

    Any updates on the issue would be greatly appreciated :).

    Thanks in advance and best regards,
    Patrick
     
  21. Tommy-Core

    Tommy-Core

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    Tanks for the quick answer, @Wright. Will try that right now. Is there some way to feed in some variable to tell MM what to spawn and what not to spawn? So I could, i.e. have no objects at world distance, single trees or buildings representing forests and cities at state distance, and full trees and other objects at FPS distance?

    Just so that I don't have to keep multiple biomes for different viewing distances.

    EDIT:
    Ok, so I got the concept, and it works kind of fine. Problem is, that with these massive differences, even relatively easy biomes tend to take REALLY long to calculate. Well, as I was gonna try create the basic RAW input by code anyways, I might as well try to use different procedural RAW files for different views. Still, your hint got me on the right track. Thank you =)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  22. Wright

    Wright

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    yrucrem, forgot to mention - I've fixed it for the v1.8.2, submitting it today.

    Maybe it's worth trying to split your graph in two biomes - one for height and textures, and one for objects and trees. The second one will not be used for the world view. But I would rather turn outputs with with the script in OnGenerateStarted event.
     
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  23. Exbleative

    Exbleative

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    I wonder if this might also be a good method for distant ("horizon") terrain? In the past, however, changing MM resolution would affect how the terrain looked a lot. I think I heard recently this may have changed?

    Is there any way that both scenes could reuse the same generated height data instead of generating it twice (for real-time terrain generation)?

    I guess you'd still need some way to render the distance terrain only in the distance as well, instead of over the top of the close version. I mentioned before maybe this could work in the same way as Voxeland? This stuff is still at the top of my MM wish list :)
     
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  24. malkere

    malkere

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    my game does make separate passes for near and far, but using the same data from MM. The far terrains are generated on a camera whose image output is blended into a shader handling the clouds and skybox. Still tons of ways to improve it I know of but have 10,000 things todo before hand.
     
  25. sBabb

    sBabb

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    @Wright I'm really enjoying using Map Magic. Very much lives up to this name! :) The Biome Blending is incredible as well.

    But, regarding performance, is it best to use fewer big maps (such as 2000 meters by 2000 meters) or many smaller maps (like 1000 meters by 1000 meters)? The sweet spot for resolution seems to be 512 for me.

    Also, is it possible to increase the draw distance of grass beyond 250?
     
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  26. Dorian-Dowse

    Dorian-Dowse

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    I've had that happen if my raw file included an alpha channel. Delete the alpha channel. Also make sure you're selecting IBM format not Mac when exporting the RAW file.
     
  27. Will-D-Ramsey

    Will-D-Ramsey

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    Anyone got any good documentation or tutorials for getting started with Voxeland? The linked documentation isn't up to date and doesn't help..
     
  28. Dwight_Everhart

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    Thank you very much for the detailed explanation of the noise types. It's very helpful to see visual representations of the noise. I can imagine how using the different types would produce different terrains.

    That's good to know. I will stick with MM's noise functions and avoid Unity noise, just in case it produces different results on different platforms or may produce different results in the future. Consistent results are supremely important.

    Thanks for the clarification. I spent some more time with MegaSplat, and I understand it much better now. I'm very happy the MegaSplat output works with clusters and not directly with textures. It's working rather well for me now.

    By the way, I want to say I'm very, very impressed with the results of mixing biomes! I'm mixing two biomes very gradually, and the results of going from rolling hills to mountains look extremely natural, with terrain features mixed gradually, producing an interesting area in between that mimics real-life foothills and valleys. It's almost a third biome, created by MM automatically, with no extra work from me! Great work!
     
  29. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    I asked here because my questions were specifically about MapMagic's MegaSplat output node, which is distributed with MapMagic. I didn't mean to delve too deeply into MegaSplat here.

    Thank you, Jason. I understand how texture clusters work. They are MegaSplat's greatest feature. They do wonders to eliminate tiling at a low cost, and the results look great! I was just unsure if MapMagic's MegaSplat output node referenced clusters or just textures. I now know it references clusters, which is great!

    At first I thought it only output textures, because the resulting textures looked very flat compared to videos you've posted and compared to what RTP produced, but I think that was due to me not having parallax enabled in the shader. I enabled it and saw some relief in the textures, but it came with a performance hit, so I've disabled parallax again. The terrain looks good enough, thanks to MegaSplat's clusters and a good amount of ground cover. I may enable it on higher-performance machines. The performance was still better than what I got with RTP, but the performance on my Mac is low enough that every boost that keeps me above 5 FPS makes a big difference in the responsiveness of the game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  30. Dwight_Everhart

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    I've run into an issue with grass textures in standalone builds. Everything looks fine when I run the game in Unity, but the grass billboards lack transparency or even lack textures entirely in standalone builds. They also do not sway. They're completely static.

    CastleKingdoms-201706210850077874.png

    I also used to have an issue with terrain textures not appearing in standalone builds, but switching to MegaSplat resolved that issue.

    I can work around this issue by including a pinned terrain in my scene, but I don't want to do that, because the game will generate a unique world for each player by changing MapMagic's global seed at runtime. So I would have to delete the pinned terrain when the game launches.

    Any idea what I need to do to make the grass render correctly without including any pinned terrains in my build? I tried moving the grass textures into a Resources folder, but that didn't help.
     
  31. Wright

    Wright

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    Dwight_Everhart, surprisingly, enabling read/write for the grass might help - at least it does for the land textures. I don't know why this happens, seems to be some internal Unity stuff.

    Thanks! It's very nice to hear such a warm feedback!

    Will-D-Ramsey, here is a tutorial video that could help you getting started with Voxeland Output Generator:


    Exbleative, I've played with the horizon meshes, but could not overcome some visual issues like seams or blink on terrain switching. I think that I should undertake a second approach.

    Re-using that height information will not help a lot, when the resolution difference is more than 2 steps performance gain could be 6% in ideal case. It does not worth it.

    sbabb, generate performance depends mostly on terrain resolution. Generating a terrain with the size of 1000 takes the same time as generating a terrain of 2000 as long as their resolution is equal. But with the bigger terrains you will need lesser of them to fill the view range, so obviously bigger terrains are faster but have less detail.

    If you mean: what is faster, the terrains with size 500 and resolution 512, or the terrains with size 2000 and resolution 2048 I'd rather say that 500/512 would generate faster in playmode since it will not generate the areas that are out of range: for instance, with a view range of 800, you will have 3*3 grid of 500/512 terrains within a view range, or 2*2 grid of 2000/2048 terrains. Obviously, the first case is faster, it's even faster than a single 2048 terrain. I did the quick calculations and found the result that I have not even expected: actually, it's more than 7 times faster.

    So I'd like to recommend using the smaller chunks (and resolution) as possible as long as you can avoid noticeable seams of the erosion, blur or other generators that are masked at the chunk edges. Yep, resolution of 512 seems to be a good balance between the generate speed and the visual quality.

    Now that I write it I understand the importance of the smaller chunks. I've got to add this information to the documentation, quick start guide and tutorial. Many users start with the resolution of 2048 because, well, just because "it is cooler", and then struggle the performance issues. Don't do that :)
     
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  32. yrucrem

    yrucrem

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    Hello Wright!

    Thanks a lot, you're the best :). With the update, the minimal example works fine for me now. I will try to follow the tutorial for the flattening of the demo scene and incorporate the rectangular stamp next.

    Thank you again, for the swift response!

    Best regards,
    Patrick
     
  33. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    When writing a custom generator, how do you get the "World Coordinates" for a specific location?

    I'm using the sample generator as a template:

    for (int x=min.x; x<max.x; x++)
    for (int z=min.z; z<max.z; z++)
    {
    float Height = src[x,z];
    // Here I will modify Height based on World XZ Coordinates
    dst[x,z] = Height>0? Height : 0;
    }
     
  34. malkere

    malkere

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    @Jaimi the x and the z are world coordinates based on your terrain resolution. So if you are at 1024 resolution with terrain size of 1024, x and z = 1 meter/unit in game.


    I'm using LegacyFractal noise still, which may be the problem. But I still see gaps once in a while. ?? Shouldn't the stiching be fixing this regardless? I never really looked into it. I also use 1024 sized terrains if that matters.

    I'm using MegaSplat as well, and it's a bummer how sharp it is on those edges for some terrains....? really only seem to notice it on the changes between positive and negative x or z.

    it's early morning when my game starts by the way, so a little dark ;p
     
  35. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    Enabling read/write helps. It causes the grass textures to appear on the billboards, instead of the billboards being black, but the textures are opaque, and the billboards do not sway. I tried enabling the textures' "Alpha is Transparency" setting, but they still appeared opaque in builds.

    Where do you suggest I get help for this issue? It's blocking me from releasing builds that don't have terrains baked into the scene. I want my game to be fully procedural.
     
  36. reocwolf

    reocwolf

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    Is it possible to recreate a mapmagic terrain with the voxeland output? I already have a map created with MM but want to try and use voxeland instead with minimum changes to the structure. Is there an ideal way of doing so?
     
  37. Wright

    Wright

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    X and Z are the world coordinates, but they measured not in units but in map pixels. To get the world coordinates you've got to multiply them with a pixel size. To calculate a pixel size use this formula: terrainDimensions / terrainResolution. If you are writing a custom generator all of these values are contained in Chunk.Size terrainSize argument of the Generate function.

    malkere, I can hardly see what's happening on the screenshot, but since you're using MegaSplat I suppose I know this issue, it will be fixed soon.

    reocwolf, unfortunately, I don't believe it's possible. Textures Output cannot be just replaced with Voxeland Output node. Voxeland Output uses absolutely different (and more complex) algorithm, it does not just blends layers in a Photoshop manner, but it creates layers in 3D space. This requires not only the significant graph changes, but changing the whole approach to the graph creation. That's why I'm not converting Island or Demo scenes to be used with Voxeland - they will require the whole graph created from scratch, and it will not have much in common with the original one.

    Dwight_Everhart, just played around with building with grass and no terrain pinned and found out that the grass works fine if you add the Nature/Terrain/Standard shader in Always Included Shaders in Edit > Project Settings > Graphics
     
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  38. slimshader

    slimshader

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    Hey! I know it is very soon (as it as just released) but I am curious about compatibility with CTS(https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/91938). Apparently it is "normal Unity Terrain" shader, so in theory it should work with MM but wondering about practice.
     
  39. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

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    Wow, that worked!!! Thank you! Such a simple solution too! I had worked around the issue by including a second, unused scene in my build with a simple terrain with grass textures, but your solution is much more elegant. I'm so happy this issue is resolved! Now I just need to find a replacement for Unity's grass system that performs better and is compatible with MM. :)
     
  40. Wright

    Wright

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  41. sBabb

    sBabb

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    Wright, thanks for such a detailed response! That is very helpful!! :)

    (I'm currently having an issue getting grass to appear on my terrain as objects rather then textures or billboard textures. Any suggestions?) * Solved

    Never mind to the above question. I was having a scaling issue and my grass objects were so small that I couldn't see them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  42. malkere

    malkere

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    I brightened it up. The terrain has a gap at 0,0 where four different terrains are meeting. You can also see the MegaSplat output changing sharply across the border of 0 and -1
     
  43. Harekelas

    Harekelas

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    Hi, @Wright !
    There is a new terrain shader asset just released yesterday, check it out here: http://u3d.as/RuQ
    This is a very easy on use and flexible shader set (as I can observe), and the author is willing to integrate his system with other assets.
    Since MM is my favorite asset and the main force in my game, I'm also very interested in this terrain shader asset.
    So is it possible for you to reach out to the author of CTS shader asset and make an integration?
     
  44. AsoraX

    AsoraX

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    Hey Guys ;)

    amazing tool @Wright ;)
    but maybe one of you can help me...

    crr i have some trubble with my beach areas...
    can ayone tell me how to substract the cliffs and make it a bit smoother that i looks like a beach?

    Sorry my english is horrible today ;)
     

    Attached Files:

  45. Wright

    Wright

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    malkere, this is odd, the gap between terrains is not related with MegaSplat Output, and it's the bug I'm not aware of. Could you please share or make a screenshot of your graph? It would be great if you could report it on the issues page.

    Harekelas, such a request was just a few posts above :) I will look into it, but I've already promised Ultimate Survival integration (for MM + Voxeland), I will stick the queue.

    AsoraX, are you using the shore generator? It's beach incline could be adjusted with it's intensity value.
     
  46. malkere

    malkere

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    will do when I get home. Now that I think about it it
    Code (CSharp):
    1. //settings compensators
    2.             int distantMulti = (1024 / TerrainsData.distantTerrainResolution);
    3.             int nearMulti = (1024 / TerrainsData.nearTerrainResolution);
    4.  
    5.             Coord min = matrix.rect.Min; Coord max = matrix.rect.Max;
    6.             for (int x=min.x; x<max.x; x++)
    7.                 for (int z=min.z; z<max.z; z++)
    8.                 {
    9.                     int newX = x;
    10.                     int newZ = z;
    11.                     if (small) {
    12.                         newX *= 16 * distantMulti;
    13.                         newZ *= 16 * distantMulti;
    14.                     }
    15.                     else {
    16.                         newX *= nearMulti;
    17.                         newZ *= nearMulti;
    18.                     }
    its probably this.. the -1 are being calculated as -3 or so I think...

    we talked about this earlier in the thread. I use that to let players change the resolution up from 256/512/1024, without the noise being affected over the long term. That picture was taken at 256 though so -1 on either the x or z will actually be calculated as -4, while the 0 remains 0. All other points are equally multiplied. Still though... shouldn't the terrain neighbor stitching take care of that? Or are the height too far apart to get picked up by the method? I haven't looked at the sticher scripting
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  47. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Posts:
    123
    I tried uNature. Unfortunately, its MapMagic integration is broken at the moment. I spent hours but couldn't get any grass to appear at runtime. It only appeared in a small area in the editor. I'll try again with the next uNature update. I have hope it will eventually be my grass solution.
     
  48. Harekelas

    Harekelas

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Posts:
    778
    Ok, Ultimate Survival integration is also a bomb! Look forward to it!
     
  49. malkere

    malkere

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Posts:
    1,110
    Same boat. Are you sure you have the UNSeeker script on your camera? It is required to see grass on a camera in runtime. Everyone hits that problem first and foremost. I've posted pictures and bug fix requests to the uNature git repository if you're on there. Hoping we see some fixes soon! :oops:
     
    Dwight_Everhart likes this.
  50. Dwight_Everhart

    Dwight_Everhart

    Joined:
    May 11, 2014
    Posts:
    123
    Oh, I don't think I did! I'll do that when I try again. Thanks!
     
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