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Lumberyard: Amazon's CryEngine-based engine with free source code

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Frpmta, Feb 9, 2016.

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  1. Frpmta

    Frpmta

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  2. Frpmta

    Frpmta

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    Surprisingly, they already know their way around improving the engine.

    Q. Is Lumberyard based on CryEngine?

    Lumberyard is made up of proven technology from CryEngine, AWS, Twitch, and Double Helix. We’ve hired some of the best game technologists in the world, who have already made over 41 pages of additions, fixes, and improvements to Lumberyard. For example, we’ve integrated a brand new networking layer, GridMate, so your engineers can more easily build low-latency, high-player count, multiplayer games. We’ve also created a new launcher and project configurator so your team can get set up without engineering help. We’ve also created new workflows so your artists can iterate faster and create higher-quality content, including a new particle editor, 2D/UI tool, and cross-platform asset pipeline. Please see our full release notes of additions, fixes, and improvements to learn more, and tune in to our GameDev Blog for more news on what we are working on.
     
  3. Games-Foundry

    Games-Foundry

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    Had a quick look at this. All looks great initially until you consider:

    a) Community + Asset Store?
    b) Product maturity - let's see what they do in the next 2-3 years
    c) Complete tie-in to AWS which isn't cheap and over which you have no future cost control
    d) Potential learning curve for those migrating from C# to C++
    e) Reliance on CryEngine to upgrade rendering tech - I have concerns about their financial position, and how long it'll take to get bugs fixed given you have 2 companies involved

    I'd still rather pay outright for fixed price licenses than be tied so heavily to a web service. That's a huge commercial risk, especially in terms of financial exposure. What if Amazon hike prices? Monopoly concerns.

    Also, unless I'm mistaken, why do they feature sculpting tools (zbrush?) so much in that launch video instead of showing the actual editor?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  4. Frpmta

    Frpmta

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    a) I guess that will come after they hear enough crying about it.
    b) Agree. But it won't hurt to touch it just to look at it.
    c) AWS integration is totally OPTIONAL. The engine is totally free no matter what you do. They only gain if you make use of their AWS services... which could be a good decision if you suck at networking like me and know also how hard it is to gain programmers competent at optimized networking.
    d) Potential? I say obligatory :D
    e) It is independent from Crytek.


    I am just happy to see CryEngine finally in good hands :D
    ...
    Though now that I look at that image, outside of performance, Unity is not longer so far from it.

    It is all assets.
     
  5. darkhog

    darkhog

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    Already heard of it. Nice stuff, at least they don't force condescending splash screen.
     
  6. Games-Foundry

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    Yes it's fine if you have your own web service implementation, but you can't use any competing cloud service providers. This is totally understandable, but that does limit it to either baking your own web services or AWS. It's a risk that needs to be considered.

    Q. Can my game use an alternate web service instead of AWS?
    No. If your game servers use a non-AWS alternate web service, we obviously don’t make any money, and it’s more difficult for us to support future development of Lumberyard. By “alternate web service” we mean any non-AWS web service that is similar to or can act as a replacement for Amazon EC2, Amazon Lambda, Amazon DynamoDB, Amazon RDS, Amazon S3, Amazon EBS, Amazon EC2 Container Service, or Amazon GameLift. You can use hardware you own and operate for your game servers.

    Good to read that it's an independently maintained branch of CryEngine. But then so's the Mono implementation in Unity and look how that's gone ;-)

    New options in the engine space are always welcomed though.
     
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  7. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    So singleplayer games on steam would be fine, right?

    I currently see no reason for me to make a switch, but some competition usually is good for the market.
     
  8. Frpmta

    Frpmta

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    Oops, sorry.
    I missed that single word.:D

    Paying for AWS when XBOX One gives you free Azure is not appealing I agree. Might as well add a small fee if you want to use it for other web services.
     
  9. kaiyum

    kaiyum

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    Wow, it looks nice. I will surely check it out. But unity will be here for other issues already mentioned, in our team.
     
  10. AcidArrow

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    What kind of lightmapping tools does it have? Are they any good?
     
  11. Eric-Darkomen

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    Will know one fine day when the download eventually completes. Must be hosted on amazon :p
     
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  12. Rastar

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    Cryengine doesn't use lightmaps, so does Lumberyard. Crytek has developed a new dynamic GI system called SVOGI/SVOTI, and it's really good, although still experimental.
     
  13. Deleted User

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    Doesn't use lightmapping, it's a voxel based realtime GI solution.

    @Frpmta

    I've always said CryEngine is THE best realtime engine ever invented completely made void with a slurry of daft issues. Like using an old verson of scaleform which you need an old version of Adobe flash (you can only e-bay) to use.

    Documentation issues, mixed import pipeline issues with heavy reliance on full blown Maya only, also documentation was near enough none existent. Plus there was no support pipeline and the licensing was odd at best.

    I'm actually very happy Amazon are doing this, CryTek really squandered a massive oppotunity and anyone but CryTek are better suited to making it the engine it should be.

    P.S I see you quoted my terrain piccie, that's before all the new fancy post effects came in 5.4 as well :)..
     
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  14. Tomnnn

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    The only downside to amazon ec2 is no data cap stopping options and surprise charges when you go over them. Otherwise, pretty awesome. Not that a harder to develop with engine that focuses on graphics will entice me even a little bit, but good for the crowd who wants the best lights.
     
  15. vis2k

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    How can anyone want to use C++ for game scripting? :)

    Let's hope that Unity also makes more source code available in order to compete with Lumberjack. The name 'Amazon' is probably the only thing that makes people curious. A really stable game engine with highest quality code and fewer bugs would sure be interesting.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
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  16. Deleted User

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    You can use LUA or C# with CryEngine, there are various options.
     
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  17. vis2k

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    Oh, that does make it more interesting then.
     
  18. LaneFox

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    Thats pretty sweet, all these off the wall things happening in the game tech field.
     
  19. PhilSA

    PhilSA

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    This will keep me occupied until Gabe releases Source 2 at GDC!

    Really though, it does look cool. C++ sources access is an immense bonus over Unity, and Lua scripting is an immense bonus over UE4, which is stuck on its obsessive focus on blueprints.

    However, I'm kinda worried it's gonna end up collecting dust like Stingray. And I still have to investigate if it lets you write your own shaders. This killed UE4 for me
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  20. hippocoder

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    I think it's a positive entry that places it in the top 3. For a start, it beats cryengine for ... well, actually being developed and stingray because there's source here.

    Source kinda matters, especially to larger developers, who are also actually lazy these days. Gone are the days where it's necessary to have to jump through hoops to get a peek. That's just silly.

    An outfit adopting a new engine often begins with the staff taking curious peeks at something. Then things get spoken about and tested instead of "what we're doing works, so why break it". Source seems to lower that barrier, particularly when it's a few clicks away.

    Interesting times eh.

    Race to the bottom with engine f2p is here, ladies.
     
  21. Tomnnn

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    reason for like

    Stingray dead already? that was fast
     
  22. hippocoder

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    Yeah but in this case it happens to be cryengine and has source and you can join me in my excessive use of italics.
     
  23. Kolyasisan

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    Lumberyard is preety good, but there's no lightmapping feature. Now that's gonna be a problem for a mobile developming they strive for.
     
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  24. GarBenjamin

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    Hmm... I had CryEngine on my list to check out but was too mentally fried at that point (from checking out loads of others) to even bother with it.

    This is very interesting! Since I am at a time of reflection in my latest Unity game project I'll have to download this and check it out over the next few weeks.

    One thing I found very cool is:

    Q. Is Amazon Game Studios using Lumberyard to build games?
    Yes. We can’t wait to show you what we’re working on, but we’ll have to ask you to stay tuned for now.

    I think having the developers of a game engine actually be using the engine to develop games can make a huge difference over time. They'll have first-hand experience with all of the annoying things, the bugs and so forth right along side everyone else. And they will be more motivated to make the updates (and make them in an ideally more straightforward manner) simply because the updates will directly benefit them as well.
     
  25. hippocoder

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    I agree, I think Unity knows that using their own produce in a more serious capacity really does pay off, but they have chosen not to do it, or rather not show us if they are :D
     
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  26. Deleted User

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    They still need to address the bottom line major issues that has always plagued CE, the UI is a good start.

    P.S

    "57.10 Acceptable Use; Safety-Critical Systems. Your use of the Lumberyard Materials must comply with the AWS Acceptable Use Policy. The Lumberyard Materials are not intended for use with life-critical or safety-critical systems, such as use in operation of medical equipment, automated transportation systems, autonomous vehicles, aircraft or air traffic control, nuclear facilities, manned spacecraft, or military use in connection with live combat. However, this restriction will not apply in the event of the occurrence (certified by the United States Centers for Disease Control or successor body) of a widespread viral infection transmitted via bites or contact with bodily fluids that causes human corpses to reanimate and seek to consume living human flesh, blood, brain or nerve tissue and is likely to result in the fall of organized civilization."

    :D:D:D:D
     
  27. steego

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    My evaluation: It's okay

     
  28. Dustin-Horne

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    Interestingly, Amazon Game Studios is also using Unity.
     
  29. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Sure, mobile is what Unity excels at. For how long, nobody knows :)
     
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  30. RichardKain

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    Something to keep my eye on. Usability and years of support and community development are going to keep me using Unity, though.
     
  31. Eric-Darkomen

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    Multiple engine versions of Tetris-Crush and Flappy-Sweeper, awesome! Can't wait, I hope they have in game micro-transactions! Truthfully though, using your competitors products in this instance could be chalked up to market-awareness.

    I dunno, I don't really feel much about this, I'm about 1/2 way downloaded and it will be a long evening but my expectations are low to say the least. No matter how they dress it, at this point I'm expecting it to be great for smash and grab phone games that you retire after a year. Esp as the amazon ecosystem doesn't strike me as the best environment for the next witcher for argument sake. They do believe that charity starts at home and that taxes are the curse of the user classes.

    Unless you're processing on a server and streaming the game to a kindle or some such that is...
     
  32. GarBenjamin

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    All I care about is what the API / engine offers. The way I see it basically anything can throw graphics on the screen and play audio. It is just a matter of which thing is making it the easiest to work with and fastest to throw things around. So... if the API is strong (like maybe a simple MakeGridOfWorld function for example) that would be sweet. Failing direct out-of-the-box support then it comes down to how easy it is to write such things ourselves.
     
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  33. hippocoder

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    Given most engines are essentially following cryengine's lead for visuals, probably makes it less work overall to use cryengine for visuals. Just saying :) it was among the first to go for PBR.
     
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  34. Eric-Darkomen

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    Ye, still wondering what their angle is, Amazon have always been platform people (angly platform people) so this is an odd move unless its purely to drive young devs onto their server farms while they're still in school/Uni. Dunno, will be able to take a look soon though, not one for cutting my nose off to spite my face.
     
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  35. Yukichu

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    https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/

    57.10 Acceptable Use; Safety-Critical Systems. Your use of the Lumberyard Materials must comply with the AWS Acceptable Use Policy. The Lumberyard Materials are not intended for use with life-critical or safety-critical systems, such as use in operation of medical equipment, automated transportation systems, autonomous vehicles, aircraft or air traffic control, nuclear facilities, manned spacecraft, or military use in connection with live combat. However, this restriction will not apply in the event of the occurrence (certified by the United States Centers for Disease Control or successor body) of a widespread viral infection transmitted via bites or contact with bodily fluids that causes human corpses to reanimate and seek to consume living human flesh, blood, brain or nerve tissue and is likely to result in the fall of organized civilization.
     
  36. hippocoder

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    Reasons to take Amazon seriously:

    - biggest shop
    - kindle everything
    - cryengine (arguably still the best looking game engine, period)
    - space ships that work + space program

    But that doesn't sound like a company used to not winning. I'd be worried if I was a competitor at this point.
     
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  37. Deleted User

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    @Yukichu

    I already posted that, keep up :D..

    @hippocoder

    Seems it has some pluses over UE as well, I've not used CE since the the FreeSDK was out.. It has animation re-targeting and quite a few bit's n' bobs Unity has..

    Yeah, Amazon could REALLY transform CE into a user friendly trailblazer of an engine.
     
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  38. hippocoder

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    You need to reload the editor when making changes to things in the scene such as character setup, but I have it on good accord this is being worked on.
     
  39. N1warhead

    N1warhead

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    That is very true. Wait what - they have a Space program?!!!

    All I know is, the demo video on their website looked GORGEOUS.
    Once I finish a product I am working on with Unity I'll give it more of a shot, but I did download it and loaded it up to make sure it worked.

    According the the Engines forums I noticed someone mentioned it doesn't have FBX Importing and that they needed a high expensive modeling package to export the right format. I do have 3ds max, but which format is it?
     
  40. Acissathar

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    As a Unity user I'm always down for more competition, and as a (hobbyist) game dev, I'm also always down for more tools. I look forward to giving this a shot, it definitely looks pretty (cool).
     
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  41. PhilSA

    PhilSA

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    I'm not so sure about that anymore. It's kinda unclear which one looks best between CryEngine and UE4

    Also.... did anyone find the c++ API reference?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  42. RichardKain

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    I would think that obvious. Amazon's web-services initiative has been doing very well for them. It's one of their most profitable segments, with some of the best return-on-investment and lowest overhead. A "free" game engine is a relatively low-cost way for them to drive even more potential traffic from a broad spectrum of developers right into the arms of their web-services. It's all there in the terms they've spelled out for the engine. Everything is free until you need on-line multiplayer, at which point you start paying for Amazon web-services.

    The whole "free" aspect to the engine is the initial hook. It will get people in the door and interested in the potential of the engine. It will help to drive early adoption, and give them a springboard for building a community around the engine. After that it's just a matter of steady growth and support. Supporting and further developing this engine could cost them a couple million a year. (experienced developers aren't cheap, though you wouldn't need a huge team) But it could potentially drive several times that amount of business to Amazon web-services. And it's worth noting that with the C++ source being open, they will be able to partially rely on the community for development support.
     
  43. GarBenjamin

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    So far I only found their Developer Guide which does cover the primary systems available and general usage of them:

    http://docs.aws.amazon.com/lumberyard/latest/developerguide/lumberyard-intro.html

    When I get on lunch break and can use my laptop I expect I will pass on playing D3 today and do some more digging. I want to see what the API offers before I bother downloading and checking it out firsthand.
     
  44. Deleted User

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    It doesn't matter about which one looks better, you literally tweak a few options in CE and it looks bloody gorgeous..

    I mean you just slap your artwork in, switch on GI, adjust the TOD beauty settings and call it a day.. No pratting about with 5,000 lightmass settings rebaking 50 times to get the look you want.

    Once you have your artwork in CE (which is an interesting journey) it's lighting quick to make GRFX PRN!>.
     
  45. jRocket

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    I am interested in this as well. Amazon says that they have added a "cross-platform asset pipeline" so hopefully that means dropping an fbx somewhere.
     
  46. RockoDyne

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    I'm just finding it humorous how it's basically being marketed as an integrated Amazon platform, oh and it's also a game engine.
     
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  47. CDF

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    I'm happy in my warm fuzzy C# land.
     
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  48. LeftyTwoGuns

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    Cool stuff but I'm not about to abdandon two years of experience and learning I have with Unity. Especially when there's like zero documentation for this engine and they haven't bothered to release any learning material yet

    Also, no asset store, no thanks
     
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  50. LeftyTwoGuns

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    Well that's actually really underwhelming. Those tutorials don't show how to do anything you wouldn't be able to figure out by messing with the thing for 30 minutes. I think you know what I mean by "learning material"
     
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