looks like UDK has self shadowing, dof and more on their mobile engine...

Not entirely.
It's nearly impossible to build your own laptop for one.
Then there is the fact that PC makers are racing like crazy to offer the cheapest laptop possible because they can’t find any other way to impress consumers into buying their offering. This leads to a huge number of laptops that can barely run minesweeper.

 

agreed

1) lol losing interest???, you still know that even tho PC gaming is doing better, it doesn't compare to the sales of console gaming, right?
the ease of use and the fact that any game you buy for your platform is guaranteed to play the exact same without any worry about drivers, current hardware, etc is one of the main appeal of consoles. Not everyone wants to spend money on a new video card, more mem, or a whole new rig every year or 2 to play the the latest game AND have it look and run its best. Lets not forget that most people dont know computers that well to upgrade components or trouble shoot compatibility, and frankly, they dont want to know...they just want S*** to work. Dont just look at the hardcore demographic and think this must be true for all people. if that was true, the wii and the kinect wouldn't have sold so well, and nobody would ever think about putting iphone gaming in the same sentence as a dedicated handheld.

2) mouse and keyboard are only better than a controller for specific genres. Games like platformers, fighting games, and racing games (even tho a wheel is best there...its still a controller) sux on a key board.

 

While I agree that consoles are easier, this part I strongly disagree with. Many games on consoles run at settings much lower than on pc and even then there are parts where framerates stutter. These old consoles can barely do 720p and still run games at about 30 frames.
I wonder that the next generation has in them.

 

Well, you made me wonder! What market was bigger, PC or Console!

So I found this really really long image in google:



Kind of says PC is doing better. Not 100% if that's legit, but looks really well done!

source: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/97705-pc-gaming-vs-consoles-the-infographic

Anyway... not everyone wants to buy a new videocard, etc. But they don't always have to! Plus, most people get a PC before a console... because PC's are used for other things as well! The biggest excuse for kids is that they need the PC for school!
So the PC is usually already there! For console, you're buying the console just for games! And not everyone wants to buy a console when already having a PC. Although IMO, I'd rather have a console strictly for games, and use PC for important stuff! That way my hdd is tidier!
My grain of sand... or, my 2cents, ;-0

What do you guys think of the image?

 

A PC bought for "studies" cannot deliver even console quality gaming.

 

Fighting games are better without a mouse and keyboard? Maybe like mortal combat type games, but mmorpg's besides having typed communication have far too many keys to fit on anything but a keyboard.......

Usually to cast a spell you need to equip a staff, then another key equips a 2h weapon, another key equips a 1h weapon, another key equips a shield.

Then you have different attacks, power attacks, special hits, etc for each type of weapon.....several dozen spells, and several dozen skills/abilities....

Not even AAA titles, going back to S***ty graphics with tabbed targeting in Ultima Online, you had dozens of keybindings to set. (and a F***ing great game)

Best gameplay I've ever experienced was Darkfall Online, I haven't subscribed for a couple years because it's a bad grind intensive game, but the pvp is unmatched by any other game I've ever played.

Between UO and DF, there have been dozens of successful mmorpgs for PC, EQ1+2, Asherons call, Dark age of camelot, etc etc etc with open world sandbox pvp These games arent even famous for graphics, yet they're unplayable without a keyboard/mouse.....

Even WoW, is how old and still popular?? Of course populations come and go in the short term as other games are released, but over time many existing mmorpgs maintain large communities.

How do you skype/ventrilo with your clan while playing on non PC's?

 

this is true, i should have been more clear. when running on a pc, people want the game to look and run as good as it can, since that's half the fun of having a mighty gaming rig. Not to mention people with low end PCs who get the latest game want he game to run at a steady frame rate, let alone to look half way decent. To do this, a user must have the latest hardware and drivers.

now, on a console, the user knows "this is all there is" when it comes to graphics and frame rate, so there's one less thing to "stress" about. There's no "damn, if i get the latest gpu, i bet this game will look soooo much cooler!!!!"

anyway, to help get this back on topic:
unity! rabble!
udk! rabble!
unreal! rabble!
crysis! rabble!
beard!...rabble!!!!

 

Honestly, I really can't agree nor disagree with that!

I'm going to half agree with you, because I bet many people buy really cheap computers for studying, but I have no idea what most people buy... I'd need to sneak in to all of their houses and spy on them! and I bet that's illegal in Canada! And I don't know you enough to tell if you're telling the truth, or just guessing!

 

Heh, heh completly dissagree. I rather played PC game on very problematic computer with 10-20 frames than playing it on console pad, which means that is up to personal preference. Quallity of gameplay on PC games is better for the most games anyways.

 

Dude, I agree after seeing the latest videos for UDK and what it can accomplish I think i'mma give it a try, especially because I have some background using C++ and I dont think learning Unreal Script should be that hard.. I'm not dropping unity just yet but I'm considering it..

 

Oh please, I spent half my life on such a computer, my eyes have adapted to 10-20 fps and all low settings

 

Maybe... (and this is just a guess), you've been impressed more by the artistic quality of what you've seen about UDK, rather than the technology, because they have really really great artists (again I'm guessing) I mean they made gears of wars and all!

Imagine two beautiful, gorgeous gurls! One's wearing make up, you really want to have her, NOW.... and then you see the other one, who is also beautiful, but it's not wearing any makeup, and you just want to puke, and wouldn't touch her with a 20 foot pole! This is exactly the same thing! </non funny comedy>

 

That analogy is just terrible. It implies that if you pick the girl without makeup you'd have to apply the makeup yourself to make her as pretty. That's just, uh, weird.

 

lol better analogy would be 2 babes, one that moves and performs whatever actions you want , the other that just sits there looking super fine, but can't really get her to do anything....

 

And you do have to apply the make up yourself! The make up is your art, (or the art made by the artist you hired)! I think you didn't understand my extremely awesome analogy!

*just kidding I'm aware my analogy suck'd

 

I want both beautiful girls(Only with their makeup) haha. I'm not giving up on Unity but I always wanted to try UDK never had a reason to before, but with their latest updates I don't see how it can hurt to give UDK a shot. Unity is still awesome and I still recommend it to people who want to start developing games. Unity has made an impression on me that will never end. I will always use unity. But if I like UDK I dont see how using both engines on different projects could hurt!

 

You can get her to do anything, you just need to study her more. If you can handle her she will do anything you want too.

 

Replace makeup with body art and it actually would make sense. Kinda.

 

LOL! Couldn't agree more!!

 

I don't think being a free customer makes your opinion any less valid. People are entitled to share exactly what they think. If unity acts on free customers' wishes, perhaps they will make future paid customers. It is all valid.

 

Yea but none of the clothes you buy her seem to fit, you have to go out and find new assets because she only accepts 1 brand, which isn't the type you've been investing in....

Similarly, compared to the 8/10 chick, who is tri-lengual, the 10/10 smokin hot chick speaks something different alltogether.

 

And we all know what that's called, right?? lawl!

 

Sadly it's not legit. It isn't even remotely correct. I think 100% incorrect or wishful thinking pretty much sums it up.

 

Cool! That's good to know, hippo!

Moral: never trust a single source!

 

Is it? i think if you would say this at GDC infront of some major publisher and developers, they start to smile at you, and walk away.

But on a more serious side: if you look around carefully, you see the change right? Sure you are leaning towards mobile games (since that is your business model), but that doesn't mean that the game industry is ever changing, even Epic, Gearbox, Valve (steambox anyone?) and others have admitted it openly, that PC gaming isn't going away for years to come (if it's up to them, and it is up to them actually ). Now that says something: PC's are still a serious platform to target, and by stating such things as they did, they also say someting underneath the obvious : they love the PC for gaming. (why would they otherwise make such a firm statement?)
If you would choose between 1) a modern pc, with all the bells and whistles, 2) ipad, 3) console (with tv screen) and old tech. For most games, wich of the three is best? (for gaming experiences being able to achieved)

Obviously the answer is 1.


That said:

shall we all go back ontopic?

 

Not trying to start anything but what proof do you have behind this claim?

 

Big ouch for PC gaming. Retail still accounts for the most sales (although this is changing).

I think we may be in a tablet-laptop-mediacenter driven world sooner than expected. Onlive is something to watch now they support desktops remotely too.

I don't get excited and up in arms because I think it's a rumour, I do it because I want to draw attention to it for my fellow developers. What choices we make here determine if we can continue doing it.

My prediction is in 10 years, everyone will use small computers for the internet. Something tablets are awesome at, and they can mirror this on their TV any time they want. Laptops are for serious users. Hell, laptops are rapidly becoming the number one device for indie game developers right now.

The big tower rig, and big costs is doomed, finding salvation only in the serious industries including AAA game development and film.

 

Okay, for the record, I think girls with less or no make-up are hotter.

 

Thank you, for summing it up. I never said I thought you were wrong just wanted to know why. I do think pc games are a dying platform because of consoles, piracy and other factors...

 

Same, can't let this lie. I think natural girls with little to zero makeup are the hottest creatures on planet earth.

 

+1 for the natural part (i hate botox addicted skinny to the bone full of makeup females)

 

I hate that too, if i wanted a girl to look like a skeleton i'd go find some bones and marry them... I like all natural chubby women.. haha

 

Spring time.. natural all the way ;-)

 

.....................


ok thats nasty.... lmao

 

What's scary here is that Jennifer looks pretty good even with that widow's brow.

 

Even if we were in the throes of passion, I gripped her wig and ripped it off as I roared in delight, I don't think it would actually stop me. I don't think it would excite me further though. If it did I would have to have a quiet pint of beer to ruminate on why that is so.

 

I personally may make her shave it all the way.

 

Well thanks.

On the PC vs Console gaming issue. Standalone games, consoles are doing much well compared to PCs due to piracy and other issues.
MMORPGs, PC still rules.

That is my conclusion from all the info I have seen in this and the other thread about the Ben Cousin's article

On top of that what will cloudgaming do to the future. No one knows yet
http://www.onlive.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_gaming

 

I would need about 5 pints

 

Considering mobiles can't even run javascript/html5 (very well) there's a lot of S*** needed before they're going to take over anything.

Loading websites on my phone takes forever compared to laptop/desktop. Also I'd rather pay for cable internet over data plans tbh.

Desktops have many form factors, no need for jumbo tower unless you want it. I have an older micro-atx desktop not much bigger than two laptops stacked on each other. It's 13.5" x 15.5" x 4" thick.....on top of that it's cheap as S*** to upgrade parts....relative to a laptop.

The day I can access all my goodies off my external hard drives from a tablet will be the day I consider buying one over a laptop.

 

Yeah but you and I are not the mass market, and mobiles have already taken over the entire mass market. It started happening in 2008 and has gained market share ever since. These are normal consumers, which represent the entire market I guess.

 

So what is the average person consuming?

I watch the app stores to see what's selling. Makes me think mostly kids and old women are the majority of the market. Top games are either A) very shallow single-mechanic based "toys" rather than games B) overhyped heavily "marketed" apps (my gf's mom for example always showing new coolest apps she read in some magazine and quickly purchased to be part of the club, she also has an ipad with no USB hahahahaha fool+money=soon parted) C) various games like Pot farmer and stupid S*** only kids would be interested in.

Ideas I had for targeting stupid trashy middleschool kids were "pit bull trainer" and "emo wrist slice" instead of pot farmer and fruit ninja

Ideally I'm actually just targetting kids apps (educational, G rated) after watching what my neice and friend's kids play they're really basic games to keep kids entertained, can whip up a million ideas in unity quickly. Games I personally wouldn't play.

I would say mobiles will definitely replace handheld gaming systems.

 

Gonna take more than noise from apple to take down nintendo.

 

I think nintendo is going to live untill the day they start making games for other devices(proboly never) look at these 3DS games that are some of the best:

Legend of zelda: the ocarina of time 3D
Mario kart 7
Super Mario 3D land

Future games:
Paper Mario 3D
Animal Crossing
Super Smash Bros.

See that? take all those games from the 3DS and it would be a week console, Nintendo carries there consoles... I think its a good move it basicly means that they have full controll over there consoles sucsess if there consolee dosent go so well its only there fault, but that wont happen because if sales drop? Just relses a Pokemon game! and sell millions, or a zelda game, or a metroid game, or a mario game, or super smash bros, or Fzero, or animal crossing, or.... you get my point, that isent including 3rd partie.

The point is that it would take alot for Nintendo to fall from its pedistal, alot more then for Sony to drop PlayStation or Microsoft to drop Xbox. Then because its the only option left every one will have to buy it and maybe keeping steady sales.

 

I have no idea how the thread went from UDK's new resources to "Gonna take more than noise from apple to take down nintendo.", but I was very impressed with UDK's demonstration.
Currently waiting for Unity's developers team to polish the engine graphic possibilities, but as said before, I wouldn't trade Unity's workflow for a box of pretty resources to slow my development. Pretty stuff, but not yet, thanks.

 

I really don't care about what UDK have or not, because i use Unity and i like Unity. Period.
Now, what i don't get is why Unity has delayed quite too much their mobile graphic features?
The iPad2 and the coming soon iPad3 are powerful enough to run shadows and some post process.
I really want to know the reason, what's holding Unity to enable depth textures on mobile?
We've rolled up our own depth textures using replacement shaders but what about others Unity developers?
Performance reasons? I don't think so, anyone here knows that adding more than one pixel light, abusive amount of materials/meshes can destroy performance on mobile (we are already aware-of you know). But again, carefully playing with those things can leads to more creative freedom in terms of graphical features of Unity games. That choice must be up to us (Unity developers) and to me it goes beyond Unity philosophy which is the whole subject in UDK vs Unity threads, in other words, total freedom.
But again, i don't care about UDK, i only care about the greatest tool available right now to create games, which is Unity!

 

If I had to guess, I'd bet all of the issues above will be addressed in Unity 4.0. It's just a matter of when.

 

I do believe they will enable them sooner or later. I was just wondering the reason why they didn't included such feature on Unity 3.5 (which had a huge amount of graphical enhancements on both mobile and desktop) for example. To me, waiting for Unity 4.0 for such needed features it's a bit too much i guess.

 

Yeah it's just by the time 4.0 does come out (lets think 2013 or fall 2012 earliest), the competition will have long since got their desktop quality effects on mobile running. It will clearly show it's age.

These being post fx on mobile could encourage free adopters of mobile now, to upgrade since they need render textures. It could be stunning business sense for unity.

Maybe even to the point of keeping unity free for mobile from 4.0 basic version.

 

No way, i think there are way to many people that are hobbiests/poor people that buy IOS basic and Android basic to make it free, not many people exept profesionals can through $3000 around for an engine.