Length of Mobile Levels

Currently getting close to pushing my game into beta. I've designed each level to take about 15 minutes to get through. Think that's enough? Too little? Too much?

I assume people will use it to waste time before getting on a plane, while in a bus, etc. I don't want to make it too long as there is no way to save while inside the level.

Oh, let me add something - the levels are pass or fail, but the money/exp you keep. Kind of like diablo I guess - dying is expected and you aren't penalized for it. You just can't unlock the next level until you complete the current one.

 

Personally, if there is no way to save your progress throughout the level I feel as though that length is quite too long for a game coming across as casual.

 

It's not entirely casual, but I take your point.

Also just noticed your location. Howdy neighbor

 

Somewhere between too long and way too long.

 

Oh, let me add something - the levels are pass or fail, but the money/exp you keep. Kind of like diablo I guess - dying is expected and you aren't penalized for it. You just can't unlock the next level until you complete the current one.

 

I guess the question is how easy is it to stop mid level and then pick it up again. If I hit exit can I click back on the app and pick up from where i left off*? Can I "get back in to it" within a few seconds (i.e. do I know what my goals are, know what the nearby threats are, etc)? Are the earlier levels shorter? You mentioned its diablo like, what happens if my bus arrives in the middle of a big mob?

PS The real answer to these questions is analytics. How often are people exiting mid level? How often do people start a level and not finish it, never to come back? Etc.



* I know you said you can't save but does it pause on suspend?

 

Give me a moment. I'll do a quick video. I think that would be easier than trying to describe it.

 

Do I feel penalised when I have to stop mid-level?

 

To answer the questions -

JohnnyA - Currently you cant pause. I think this is more prudent for mobile devices, where battery life must be taken into account. Though in the future I think I'd rather save the game's state rather than implement my current save scheme.

AngryPenguin - I don't know, will you? That's kind of a philosophical question. I hate checkpoint systems. I won't touch games like Gears of War because of them. On the other hand, I don't overly mind Diablo 2 (I suffer Diablo 3 for some reason). I guess the point is that it's more of a personal choice whether you feel penalized.

You keep your money and experience, but you have to start those 15 minutes over again. How do you feel about that (getting this kind of feedback is why I started the thread, actually). Do you feel it's far too long?

 

No, it's a practical question. The point isn't to philosophise about the meaning of penalty. It's to find out how players react to having to stop mid-game and whether it makes them more or less likely to come back and finish it and/or to start a new game in the future.

So, lets throw out the word "penalty". Would I feel annoyed if I had to stop playing 12 minutes into a 15 minute level? Probably.

More generally, would the player feel annoyed if they lost a game because of a break in flow as opposed to losing from something that happened in the game? If so, 15 minutes is a pretty long level time. How often do know ahead of time that you have 15 minutes to kill while waiting for a bus? Because if you don't know you have at least that long, you know you can't win before you even start. Will that effect whether players want to play your game?

Personally, I'd pick a game that I was confident of fitting into the time I had. However, I am almost certainly not your target audience, as I very rarely play phone games.

 

Short answer yes. It is far too long. If I play 10 minutes in to a level and my bus arrives and the game expects me to start again I never play that game again. What if I get a phone call, get interrupted by someone asking for directions, etc, etc, its bound to happen to many if not most players.

 

But it's not hard science. There are armies of Koreans that happily play cookie cutter MMO's with endless, mind numbing grinds and pay hard earned cash for health potions.

Lets re-frame the question. Would you play Diablo, knowing that you didn't have time to complete the quest but that you kept all the gold and items you found along the way? Apparently enough people thought so that they made a 3rd part of the series.

That's why I'm asking for people's opinion. I know my own personal preference, and that's how I've designed the game. But it doesn't hurt to see what other opinions may be on the matter. Diablo is not a mobile game, so the rules are not necessarily the same (especially since my game is thematically nothing like Diablo).

What you are willing to do while you are waiting for the bus and what you devote a Saturday with friends are not necessarily similar.

Anyway, the brief Alpha video is almost on youtube (still processing):

Oh, the sound might be a bit loud. Still playing with the audio and I have a pretty major hearing deficit that makes doing sfx a challenge.

 

What's the point of asking for opinion if you are just going to dismiss it if it isn't what you want to hear? You have had three replies all of which said that it was too long.

Typical mobile gaming sessions length for arcade games are around 2 minutes [SUP]1[/SUP], and even top games are lucky to get an average session of 10 minutes [sup]2[/sup].

You want someone to play for 15 minutes to pass a level and you offer no means of saving progress, surely you can see thats likely to cause issues.


1. https://apsalar.com/blog/2013/02/top-mobile-game-categories-by-in-app-purchase-engagement/
2. http://www.realitymine.com/advertising-the-latest-strategy-game-to-hit-mobile/

 

I'm not dismissing it. Your original "answer" was to ask me what I thought. I'm not asking what I think. I'm asking what you think. You've countered with a lot of questions that are essentially asking what I asked in my original post. "How do people feel about the length?"

I don't know. That's why I asked. People play games that involve a lot of work to get nowhere. They don't intend to "finish" anything per se, but to get money and items.

Though I wasn't aware of the average length. Thanks for the link, I shall give it a read.

EDIT: Mixed up your response with Penguin's. Either way, you asked me a lot of questions as well that mirror what I want to know.

 

The only question I was asking was can you exit/suspend/pause and easily jump back in to the game, I was just asking the same question a few different ways with the goal of eliciting an understanding of why long levels might have a negative impact on play experience.

The second set of questions were not questions to you but an indication of what I think you should be measuring with your game analytics.

I've also updated my last post with another link; you can easily find many more with google. There is an overwhelming amount of data that suggests your levels are not just a little bit too long but MUCH too long.

 

Do you hate your own game? Because that's basically the same thing as a checkpoint system. A very bad checkpoint system for the platform.

And you can probably pause in Gears of War, so you're being irrational.

 

That is not the same checkpoint system. Not by far. In Gears of War, if you die between checkpoints, you've lost all progress to that point. All of it. You reload at the last check point with the same ammo, health, etc.

As I pointed out, this is closer to diablo, where you still make progress. You still have those items or gold that you collected. Overall, you're better off, even if you haven't completed the objective.

I'm not sure how you could possible mix up the two. In fact, several RPG systems now use this, including every MMO ever made and every MOBA style game, where you can lose the game but still retain money/items/whatever.

There are other games than CoD and GoW you know...

 

Far too long, as others have said. I don't care that I get to keep my items - the flow is interrupted. The implementation is not comparable to Diablo because the environment is drastically different. In Diablo, people still might get slightly upset that they have to restart, even though they get to keep their items, but their number of restarts compared to number of 'level' completions is relatively low. They are willing to bear with it because the drawback is minimal

If a mobile game takes 15 minutes to complete a level, and can't even pause for you to check something else out on your phone, people are going to be restarting more often then they are going to be finishing levels, which is terrible design. People will get frustrated and wont want to play.

 

maybe break it down into 2/3-5 minute sections of levels, or missions/quests whatever, or just add some type of checkpoint system. that way you might actually be able to accomplish something in a short play time, and if you do have to restart, its not that far back. i get the whole keeping items/xp angle, but if they can never get past the first level whats the point right?

 

I see your points. Honestly I hadn't considered someone calling in the middle of their game (thereby obviously making them lose). I'll play with 2 - 3 minute missions and see how it feels.

 

But it's not the same at all. Diablo isn't a mobile game. I don't play it at all unless I know I'll have 30+ minutes to put into it, which is usually enough to get somewhere. And even if I don't finish the quest the progress isn't lost, since there's portal stones and so on - I might not get to the end, but rarely would I have to start from the start to continue. Diablo is deliberately designed so that the player is always progressing in multiple, staggered systems - location, level, loot, story, etc.

Anyway, going back to the OP and just answering the question (apologies for not doing that last night! I'm too used to people pre-supposing the answer to things like this and framing my own answer accordingly): Yes, 15 minutes is way too long. If I had that long I'd be doing something other than playing a phone game. If I didn't have that long, knowing that I couldn't continue where I left off, I wouldn't even start.

 

too long....stages are preferably short but many
angry birds is one good example - many levels, but each levels end around 2-3 mins most
so i can play whenever i like, even the time is limited (say, my wife went to toilet when we're in the mall, or im waiting for metro)

if you are keen on keeping the stage 10-15 mins, use checkpoints, so i can play 5 minutes, advance to the checkpoint (which is 1/3 of stage), save and put the mobile back to my pocket...continue when i have time.

 

15 Minutes for a mobile game is incredibly long, so long that I'd instantly delete the game.

When you take out any form of saving at all, such as pausing and checkpoints, you have a clear failure in the design of the game.

EDIT: 'Korean MMO Grinders' will never be or match your market, they play the game because of a myriad of different reasons, and almost all if not all of those reasons simply cannot be replicated on a mobile game.