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Launcher sunset - 2019.1 alpha 10+

Discussion in '2019.1 Beta' started by DanielTG, Nov 23, 2018.

  1. DanielTG

    DanielTG

    Unity Technologies

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    Hi everyone

    Unity 2019.1 Alpha 10 will no longer include the built-in Project Launcher as part of the Editor



    Please note: The Editor command line interface will remain unaffected by this change and will continue to work as expected for project management and license activation.


    The UI functionality is now replaced by the Unity Hub (v1.3.0 as a minimum requirement). If you haven’t already downloaded/installed the Hub, please visit https://unity3d.com/get-unity/download to get the latest release.


    This is an important change to how opening/creating projects and licenses are managed within the Editor and we need your feedback please as we iterate and improve on this transition. If you already have the Hub installed, please make sure it’s updated to at least v1.3.0 (launching/restarting the Hub will trigger the auto-update process).

    Please read below for more details:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What to Expect in 2019.1 alpha 10
    :

    • After successfully installing Hub v1.3 and launching it for the first time,
    • Unity 2019.1 will call the Hub in place of the Launcher for project creation and management, from within the Editor. This will be the case whether the Hub process is running or not.

    General changes

    • When opening/creating a project from the file menu inside the Editor, we will not reboot the current instance. Instead it will open a new instance.

    • When launching the editor, the editor will launch the Hub or show the project list page if already launched

    In cases where the Hub is not installed:

    • Launching the Editor from the Unity 2019.1 desktop shortcut will pop-up a basic UI dialogue to ‘Create Empty Project’, ‘Install Hub’, or ‘Quit’

      Note: This UI dialog will be updated in a upcoming alpha and ‘Install Hub’ will be replaced by ‘Open Project’

    • In Editor File>New Project: A standard OS finder/explorer UI will open allowing your to browse to path, name, and save your project to disk

    • In Editor File>Open Project: A standard OS finder/explorer UI will open, allowing you to browse and open the project folder

    • In Editor Window>Manage Licenses: A native OS dialog will pop-up and guide you to install the Hub to manage licenses

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thank you and please let us know your feedback,

    The Hub Team
     
  2. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    @DanielTG Having the launcher seperate to the hub allowed me to quickly switch between my work license (pro) and home license for hobbyist stuff (free) as I could keep the hub logged in as my work user, and use the individual unity shortcuts to launch from the launcher, which was signed in as my home account.

    Now I have to go through 2FA everytime I switch between them. It would be nice if you could emulate this use case, and provide a way to switch between multiple signed in accounts via the hub. (not sign them out and sign them in, but have 2 signed in and switch between without having to go through security again).
     
  3. DanielTG

    DanielTG

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    Hi @GameDevCouple_I,

    Thanks for calling attention to that scenario. Switching between user logins is something we will need to address in the Hub. It's not on the short plans for v1.x but I will revisit this with the team and see how we can tackle this problem.

    Thanks again,
    Daniel
     
  4. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    Your very welcome, I realise its not necessarily a common use case, but it is still an important one! (After all, I started using unity for my hobbyist development, getting a job using unity came much later! :D )
     
  5. Baste

    Baste

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    The hub is still pretty buggy (as you can tell from it's dedicated forum), and very feature-sparse. Are you sure that it'll be stable enough once 2019 hits that you can safely force people to use it without ending up with users completely unable to use Unity because of it?

    The current quality of the Hub and the current development velocity doesn't exactly instill confidence in your ability to get it good enough by then.
     
  6. pointcache

    pointcache

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    I wont use this hub. I don't like it, i really hate you shoving it down my throat. [redacted to speak for myself]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  7. eizenhorn

    eizenhorn

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    Speak for yourself. This is a very convenient and cool tool. And so many people were glad of his appearance.
     
  8. pointcache

    pointcache

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    I can see how. Yet i have all my unity versions in folders, and was very happy i dont have to use any launchers, now i have no choice. Yeah whatever, im just getting old and grumpy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
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  9. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I've switched to the hub in preparation for 2019.1 beta. It seems stable now - it wasn't for the longest time though, to be fair :)

    It also needs work on account management but generally, just using it because I have to, and it mostly seems the same as the launcher TBH.
     
  10. snacktime

    snacktime

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    Automated launching without any dialogs has to remain a thing. There are multiple use cases for editor batch mode and I don't see that changing. And if you support that, I don't see why you would actively block direct launching without batch mode.

    We use batch mode for on demand content generation using editor only api's. There are a lot of content creation related api's that are editor only. I would think normally you would want batch mode, but there might be use cases for automated without batch mode also.
     
  11. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Case #1112910.

    Hi,

    I have left my Unity alpha12 open overnight (simple project, nothing fancy only a couple of scripts).
    In the morning I have found these warnings:
    vr.PNG

    I do not use any of these in my project, never touched them ever. (Of course it's minor, but annoying, and of course on clear they go away)
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
  12. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Case #? merged with existing hub topic.
     
  13. Lurking-Ninja

    Lurking-Ninja

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    Haven't got the email yet, I will include the number as soon as I get it. BTW, it probably has nothing to do with Hub. The hub is in the path of the editor (all the editors installed through hub will have hub in their path). It's an editor minor problem. Or updater or something like that. I don't see any relations to the Hub itself.
     
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  14. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    When I click on an asset store link in the webbrowser, it asks open in unity? it opens the hub instead of unity ( Mac safari )
     
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  15. StephenHodgson-Valorem

    StephenHodgson-Valorem

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    How will this impact downloading and installing unity with CI tools?
     
  16. jowitt_msft

    jowitt_msft

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    Agreed, we're worried about this too. We rely heavily on our automated processes for downloading and installing versions of Unity. Will that still be possible? Don't make us login to our build machines and install new versions by hand every time please.
     
  17. chingwa

    chingwa

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    I use the Hub and I love it, but this is because I have a large variety of projects that are all locked to different versions of Unity. However It seems like a poor workflow to not have a launcher in the base Unity engine... you are requiring someone download Unity, and then also download hub to properly run Unity projects, which is counter intuitive.
     
  18. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    I am sad to see we are in beta now and my use case mentioned above has not been mitigated. This means I can only use unity for work, or personal use. Not both together.

    Thats a big big red flag for me, given that I have been a hobbyist developer in my spare time since I was a child, but now have a job in the industry and therefore need to switch between versions and/or licenses easily.

    With your choice of forcing this on us without giving a way to keep a secondary account signed in (or you know, allow use of the launcher until this hub covers all use cases), I now have to go through 2FA every day at least once and I have to say its a bit tedious.
     
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  19. DanielTG

    DanielTG

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    Hi everyone,

    Apologies for the delayed responses, I'll do my best recap some of the points/concerns and how we're addressing them.

    For all things related to downloading/installing of the Editor
    - The standalone Editor installation files will be still be available from the Unity download archive for each version. More recently, we noticed that the web CMS was no longer listing the individual install components (e.g platforms) for each release but that problem will be addressed. When 2019.1 is release the main download pages will drive new users to the Hub as first experience but not as the only option. The Unity Installer (aka Download Assistant) and offline deployment options are still and will continue to be available until that functionality can be rolled into the Hub over time.

    CI tools:
    - Editor command line interface and batch mode is not affected so everything works as it did previously. If there is anything wrong there, then it's a critical bug that will be addressed as top priority. Please let us know.

    Multiple accounts and license management:
    -
    We understand switching between multiple account is a pain. We have a plan to address this properly and it will need some major changes to how we manage accounts + licensing to help with a proper workflow.
    - The workaround via the launcher Vs the Hub unfortunately causes several usability issues and port conflicts with the old REST API we used to communicate between the Editor and Hub. As of the 2018.3 release, Hub and Editor communicate via IPC so that workaround for multiple accounts shouldn't work; if login/logout in one it's the same token.
    - Licensing is another story and there is currently no easy switch, even with the previous workaround. The license, while tied to the Unity ID and Org ID, is still stored on your machine and isn't affected by login/logout. In a case where you've activated a Pro license with your work account, then login with your personally account, that Pro license is still in use.

    General comments on Hub vs Launcher
    - Maintaining both the Hub and Launcher, while currently similar in look/feel, was still two different implementations and extra overhead, and likewise bound us too closely with Editor releases. We felt it was best to focus effort on moving forward with the Hub since it offered us the flexibility to continue building new features/functionality and fixes that would apply across multiple releases of Unity without disrupting the main release for your Project.
    - If you feel that it is being forced on you, and the Hub is not working up to or greater than the functionality of the Launcher please explain in detail (either in this thread or you can pm me directly) on the use cases and concerns you have so we can address them. The general feedback so far has been mostly positive but I also don't us to miss any critical issues because of this change.


    Thank you,
    Daniel
     
  20. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    - I want to be able to hide the LEARN tab in the settings, don't need it.
    - When I click on installs/ Official releases I want to be able to choose in settings: Disable older versions than I the earliest version I have installed. Now its a big list of 2017 versions I don't ever plan on installing again.
     
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  21. JakubSmaga

    JakubSmaga

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    Will Hub get a dark mode? I hate when (literally) everything on my PC is using dark mode expect the Hub. I don't want to use it at night because of that.
     
  22. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    This is a BIG BIG red flag for me. Your saying there is no way to use the same computer to work on both day job stuff and personal stuff without breaking TOS?

    That means from now on I cannot work on personal game dev until unity tells me otherwise. I am seriously ****ed this is not a use case that has been worked out.

    @DanielTG please find out what I am meant to do, because if I cant work on both I genuinely will have to switch all my personal development to another engine, if I read this right and your saying I have to have a PC per license. That unforunately is the only way around as I obviously cant move everything over at work. Is -force -free a viable workaround for now?

    EDIT: @DanielTG would the answer here not be a workaround I could use in the meantime:
    https://answers.unity.com/questions/1306018/using-unity-pro-and-unity-personal-license-on-one.html ?

    I really really dont want to have to cease all work outside of work hours, for an engine that I have used for more than twice the time as a hobbyist than I have proffesionally.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  23. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    Ive been using unity for 10ish years for personal projects, about 2.5 years professionally. And now I have to choose between the two uses :/

    Seems a bit messed up!

    Im just looking for a way to carry on both usages. I dont want to use the license in the wrong way, but its a bit ridiculous that there is no other way currently. I am going to use -force -free for now but this needs to be made clear what to do about this or even if this is okay. Not everyone can buy a second laptop, I dont just mean from a financial standpoint but also from logistics, some people travel around and having 2 computers to handle the licensing of unity is not possible.

    Surely in 2019 unity are not saying "its great that you as a dedicated user/fan battled to find a job using unity after years of using it as a hobbyist, but now you must get rid of your long standing hobby as we refuse to give you any way to use both alongside each other".

    But currently that is exactly what it seems?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  24. Baste

    Baste

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    The main issue is that the Hub isn't nearly stable enough. My perception is that the launcher was very, very stable, and because of that didn't have any serious issues. My perception of the Hub is that you're not able to launch any versions that doesn't at least have some users unable to use it due to licensing issues or other bugs.

    The Hub works for me, but I'm terrified that the Hub in it's current quality will be the only way to launch Unity projects, because that means that there's a non-zero chance that you push out a Hub update and I suddenly can't work.
     
  25. DanielTG

    DanielTG

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    Hi everyone,

    I'm doing my best to try and pull the pain points and issues from this thread so we can address them but various topics are being blurred here and no concrete pain points are being discussed on subject. Aside from multi-user switching, which is not a unique problem introduced by the Hub, I'm still missing the real problems this is causing compared to the Launcher. I'm here to help. Please help me help you.

    @GameDevCouple_I related to the link / workaround. I'll ask the team test it out more thoroughly and confirm if the behaviour works as expected or not through the Hub (if not we will address it right away).

    If you want to discuss any Hub features requests and issues unrelated to the Launcher sunset please direct them at the Hub forum https://forum.unity.com/forums/unity-hub.142/ so it's easier to continue the conversation there with the Hub team as a whole)

    Regarding comments about TOS... That was definitely not my point at all and not something I'm trying to stir or call out. What I described related to the license activation being stored on the machine has always been the case regardless of Hub Vs Launcher changes in 2019.1. I was only trying to be informative and mention that the solution is not only switching user account and two-factor authentication (i.e. not a quick fix to work properly). What you do with a Pro license that has been purchased by or for you is between you and whoever issued the license. This has nothing to do with the TOS or enabling DRM.

    Thanks,
    Daniel
     
  26. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    Thanks Daniel, I will try and direct my discourse on the subject to the relevant forum. Please update here too though on the -force -free issue outcome as I am sure it will be relevant to many other users who may come here to read with similar concerns. Thanks for looking into this
     
  27. Prodigga

    Prodigga

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  28. DanielTG

    DanielTG

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    Apologies on the teams behalf if that was missed. The point I was trying to make is to keep this thread, ideally every thread, on topic so the conversation and main points are easy to follow in context to the originapost. Unfortunately we do miss posts regardless of the forum...



    If you’re trying to report a Hub defect, then please use the built-in bug reporter. That’s always best way to reach the dev team, while automatically supplying log/error/version details.
     
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  29. jowitt_msft

    jowitt_msft

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    Thanks a ton for the clarification here! =)

     
  30. TokyoWarfareProject

    TokyoWarfareProject

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    "Unity 2019.1 Alpha 10 will no longer include the built-in Project Launcher as part of the Editor"---> annoying

    I'm again getting that "improved prefabs workflow" feeling again.

    I dont want to use your bulky hub. I dont need it.
     
    id0 likes this.
  31. id0

    id0

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    Hub is useless garbage, only eats memory, but we are forced to use it. For example, I can't download anything from the asset store without it, although when I install the hub, logged in, and then deleted it, I could still download assets from store. So this is a fake limitation.
     
  32. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    It's not evil ubercorp always you know...

    Sometimes it actually can be useful to funnel new users toward learning content if the amount of times we've all pointed people to learn section or other resources is anything to go by... why not just pre-point them?

    I guess I stopped caring, I mean I never really hit my memory limits anyway.
     
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  33. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Have to admit though, it's a bit odd that something like Hub hovers at around 150-200mb of memory used.
     
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  34. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Hopefully the evil hub overminds will reduce this ram consumption so that they may more efficiently herd the FAITHFUL.
     
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  35. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Hub has memory leak(s), thats why the RAM usage is way high. It's base consumption is <50mb.
     
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  36. Baste

    Baste

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    The memory footprint is probably because the Hub's made in Electron. There's a good chance that there's no way they'll be able to understand or reduce the memory footprint in any meaningful way.

    I think the Hub should be scraped and remade in Unity. It should've been made in Unity to start with. Two reasons:
    - Any reason why the Hub can't be made in Unity is a reason why Unity's customers shouldn't use Unity.
    - The Hub's memory footprint, performance, and development velocity is not within acceptable for a three-screen app. Tiny should fix memory footprint and performance. Unity being fast to development in should fix development velocity.
     
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  37. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I see, its leaking all over... that sucks.
     
  38. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I don't buy this. People working in Unity aren't exactly using it to make launchers. It doesn't even make sense to make it in Unity.
     
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  39. snacktime

    snacktime

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    Ya I'm so much with you on this. That it's designed with complete lack of respect for the user is bad enough. That they now want to force it on us is just insult on injury.
     
  40. snacktime

    snacktime

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    This is what my hub looks like most of the time. Close to 120mb completely wasted memory doing nothing I care about. And you want to force this on me.

    upload_2019-4-4_11-54-14.png
     
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  41. Baste

    Baste

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    People using Unity is using it to make all kinds of things. If I'm making an MMO/Moba/etc. in Unity with a self-updating launcher (like all those games have), I'd really love to be able to make that in Unity. That's not very far from what the launcher's doing.

    Also, any particular thing the Launcher's doing (UI, file control, networking) is things that will be relevant to many things made in Unity. When they go "no, it's better to use html/css and frameworks for that than Unity", it doesn't really show confidence in their own product, does it?
     
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  42. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    No, it has nothing to do with that. I would no sooner use Unity to make a launcher than I would use it to make a word processor.
     
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  43. snacktime

    snacktime

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    I have no issues with Electron for the main program. Just don't use that for the background part of it that they want to keep running. A .Net console app should be able to handle everything they need and use under 10mb easily.
     
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  44. M_R

    M_R

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    inb4 Hub v2 will use runtime UIElements. and UTiny.

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  45. TokyoWarfareProject

    TokyoWarfareProject

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    if you whant to impose the hub it has to be a superb tool, from what I read is just a clunky leaky boat, and from my experience I can´t tell better. This also feels like the asset bundle tool, that you deprecated and moved almost secretly to github, while docs still point to a non existing tool and while the new is yet to come.

    So.

    Finisht it first, swap it later.
     
  46. Peter77

    Peter77

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    Could you please optimize the startup time of the Hub and the overall responsiveness of the application? It takes about 20 seconds to start the Hub and about 4 seconds to switch to the "New" tab on my PC.

     
  47. TokyoWarfareProject

    TokyoWarfareProject

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    SO I was trying it again, at least uses less mem than Epic's launcher :D
    upload_2019-4-6_0-11-19.png
     
  48. DanielTG

    DanielTG

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    Hi everyone,

    @Peter77. Sorry I'm confused by your video. It shows that you are launching the Editor first, which in turn will launch the Hub if it's not running. If you launch the Hub directly (before opening the Editor), you will see a far faster loading uniquely to the Hub.

    @Baste and @hippocoder. If you have any examples of memory leaks that occur when running the Hub, please share details and logs. If this is happening we want to squash those issues as top priority. Further memory optimization with Electron is not out of the question either.

    For additional info to everyone, once of the motivators to Sunset the Launcher was contributing to the eventual goal of removing the Chrome Embedded Framework (CEF) being used for the Project launcher, Asset Store window and services tab inside the Editor. We recently ran some internal tests by removing the CEF from the Editor we would free ~150-160MB of RAM from the Editor process itself, and ~1GB of files on disk; plus other incremental performance benefits. We are still not there yet to completely deprecate the CEF due to other dependencies mentioned but hopefully this puts some concerns at ease.

    Thanks
    Daniel
     
  49. Peter77

    Peter77

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    Hi Daniel, thanks for your reply.

    Starting the Hub directly, does not seem make a difference. I also noticed, once the Hub started, clicking buttons inside the Hub, like "New", takes about 4-5 seconds before the New tab shows up. The Hub UI feels unresponsive here.

    I recorded a new video that show its behaviour when starting the Hub directly.

     
  50. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Ok, this is good. Is there any particular reason that a nice little menu system needs to take up over 100mb of RAM, though?

    Is there future functionality you envision where it really needs to use something like electron? Is a local web application framework really needed?