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Jetbrains Rider - a mini dairy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by hippocoder, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Hi,

    I'll be trying out Jetbrains' Rider soon and I'll document what I think in this thread. I'm expecting some pretty positive things so if anyone else would like to share any top tips or their experiences, please do so!

    I am coming from a strong Visual Studio background where I usually have 100% control over my code. I am feeling nervous!

     
  2. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    The Hero we need.
     
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  3. ippdev

    ippdev

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    I thought you were gonna have a cow! What is Jetbrains all about that we Unity devs may be interested?
     
    Martin_H, hippocoder and N1warhead like this.
  4. Doug_B

    Doug_B

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    Hi hippocoder,

    I have been quite impressed with JetBrains' PyCharm which is one of the better Python IDE's that I've seen.

    One thing that really stood out from this video was the direct linking of strings to method names. This is something where the lack of compiler safety checking gives me the heeby-geebies. I wonder if that extends to things like RPC calls in Photon that also use method names as strings?

    Would also be interesting to know how it compares to Visual Studio on startup. VS for me takes a while to load up initially.
     
    hippocoder likes this.
  5. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I have played with it a little, and like the features. I want to explore it more, but never seem to find the time. I have been using TM2 forever, and whenever I try something new, I quickly get annoyed and jump back.
     
    hippocoder likes this.
  6. BrewNCode

    BrewNCode

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    Why I should pay for a text editor if I can use VS code?
     
  7. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    You wouldn't be paying for a text editor. You would be paying for an IDE that seeks to compete with the full Visual Studio.
     
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  8. Player7

    Player7

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    Dear diary

    oops wrong place, this place would break under the realtalk
    ----

    Todo try out jetbrains ide.. soon as they make a portable version that isn't 30day trial.
     
  9. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    From the name I was expecting some kind of racing game..
     
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  10. Le_Tai

    Le_Tai

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    The most useful things to remember in Rider IMO:
    • Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+A. It allows you to search for actions - and also show their shortcut.
    • Postfix templates:
    Code (CSharp):
    1. //array.for<Tab>
    2. for (var i = 0; i < array.Length; i++)
    3. {
    4.      
    5. }
     
  11. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Update:

    Install was smooth. Made a copy of my current project. I'm using 2018.1 for this.
    Opened it, went through a customisation process. All good!

    It can match visual studio's dark look + key bindings.
    Rider recommended disabling and auto save on focus change for Unity. Good idea because Play Mode saved changes suck. So far so good, seems like they care about my engine of choice.

    Lovely IDE so far. Seems to be similar performance to VS. Just poking around, I'm kind of leaning toward it because it bends over backward to give me a non jarring transition from Visual Studio.

    First problem. Rider tells me I'm bad at everything possible. In fact if Rider had a voice,
    it would be a kind of gentle bullying. It seems to know all about my naughty secrets.

    This is a copy of my project so I'm going to go right ahead and let Rider change all my stuff. I get the feeling it probably does know better than me (it does).

    Boom. Broke my stuff.

    First problem: I followed it's recommendation to add a namespace to my partial class (good advice but it broke everything. Undo worked but it's forcing me to go through every file and hit save for this). It's not a deal breaker - but partial classes can be upsetting for the poor thing. Best I manually refactor this bit. Hint: take it easy on projects with random conformity.

    I'm just going to go right ahead and turn some but not all of this advice off. It's all great advice, just I'm set in my ways, and that's that.

    I think I just need to set some rules so it nags me when I break *my* rules, which I want to keep, being indie and all.

    Hear that patter, Microsoft? It is the sound of dropping a ball.
     
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  12. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Ooh, it has a decompiler. A couple of clicks later and Unity's (C#) sources are quite a bit less mysterious.

    Configure Inspections to the rescue for telling Rider to just stop nagging me about some things.
     
  13. Devastadus

    Devastadus

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    I dig rider, mostly because in my development job i use IntelliJ so all the bindings and the settings all the same. Though as an indie, I would find the price a little hard to swallow when visual studio is free.
     
  14. Le_Tai

    Le_Tai

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    There a "Save All" command, just search for it(Ctrl/Cmd Shift A).

    I thought VS have it too. I haven't use it for so long though, maybe its some plugin I used.
     
  15. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I'd like to turn off the nagging but I'm not seeing where. I like some of it's suggestions however I don't particularly want to "var" everything...
     
  16. Player7

    Player7

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    .... oh .. does it? well S*** I might have to reconsider checking it out sooner.. nothing is more lame than the efforts at MS ..like providing a decent assembly viewer .. even monodevelopp had that super useful window built in.

    oh you downloaded some nuget packages in VS.. here have some precompiled garbage references in your project.. oh what's that you want to see the source of a method and this class.. enjoy using this absolutely useless tool in VS. They'd better at just providing the nuget package source link it's that useless.
     
  17. Le_Tai

    Le_Tai

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    File>Setting>Editor>Code Style>C#>Code Style Tab
    You can disable every inspection in the context action menu(Alt+Enter)
     
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  18. Player7

    Player7

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    So I tried it out..

    codemap scrollbar ...doesn't exist.. best plugin codeglance.. it has more options than VS.. but it's a fail as far I'm concerned. Because there is nothing more annoying than scrollbar highlighting of code issues, debug lines etc that is not in alignment or displayed with the actual scrollmap right beside it.. something that VS does do properly by actually just building the scrollmap feature right in the ide so it works seamlessly with any code hightlighting/debugging stuff...even if the customization options are about as pathetic as small, medium, large for scrollmap sizing. Surprising jetbrains haven't just done better.. they seem to be about doing better in most things.. but that is straight off fail to me.

    ctrl+click to see check declaration source works great.. and it will decompile source file if it has too....That is where it ends.. zero support for actually browsing an assembly.. I mean doesn't even make sense considering they make dotPeek and could strip it and build it in better.. .. even VS object browser allows seeing a better overview of things and is built in... https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115000556144-Object-Browser-Window

    the settings available are all nice... code coloring, code styling is all great.. but vs2017 included improvements in those code styling formatting areas aswel.. that does the same mostly.

    Just my on the surface observations.. oh no support for rmb on a tab and opening the folder of the tabbed file.. just a nice shortcut I like that I like to use...which is in many ide's but not jetbrains.

    So far I think I'll just continue to stick with visual studio for C# projects... and I'd like to think the Unity<>Visual Studio connection will improve.. though 2018.1 seems witnessing more broken S*** than anything else.

    Anyway I've decided to give phpstorm a go seeing as there are some nice things about jetbrains stuff, and maybe it will be better suited for that. I use vscode for web stuff but the lack of code formatting options built in is a joke as are many other areas ..MS roadmap for vscode is disappoint..just javascrap direction.. and some idiots at MS seems to think github is a place to base a community around a product used by 100000s users... last I checked it was only good for bug reports... features suggestions and various product issues and other topics belong on a thing called a forum discussion board..where new topics aren't locked every minute and dumped in a closed section because of some fking idiot decisions.

    shame about monodevelop not coming with Unity, I thought it could have really improved and gotten a nice dark theme... instead xamarin got bought by MS.. and it seems to have been left behind, even though it did 2 things better than all other ide's, and was comparably ok in other areas..its better at debugging than that vscode junk...it started up fast which really matters when opening up unity projects, because unity can't be bothered to provide anything of a built in code viewer (not even basic editing) that doesn't end with <...etc...> and a decent built in assembly browser.
     
  19. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I don't see how trying an IDE for an hour or even a week is enough to work out day to day time savings...

    If after 3 months I'm still using it, then it stays.
     
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  20. Doug_B

    Doug_B

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    Does this forum have an "Auto-bump in 3 months' time" feature? :)
     
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  21. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Update:

    For existing Visual Studio users:
    I realised today that there is not much point in using Rider if you are on windows and already have VS. If you have VS then my advice is to carry on using VS - unless you're a beginner in which case I think Rider trumps VS as it's helpful and the built in Unity support (utterly useless for me) seems very helpful at avoiding errors new developers may encounter.

    If you are sharing your work a lot with other resharper users then going with Rider is going to be quite effective as well.

    For beginners to Unity or C#:
    So for new Unity users or people learning C# in a Unity context, I think Rider is the best option for any platform. This is because it gives you hints and guidance, and also suggests a healthy default coding style - which can avoid a lot of pitfalls for budding developers.

    Windows, Mac or Linux?:
    If however you have a mac, or linux box then Rider might well be the best equivalent I have used.

    Currently, I have chosen to remain with VS for Windows and Rider for any cross platform stuff.
     
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  22. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Oh... and currently on Windows 10, VS starts up faster than Rider does. But Rider does indeed do a LOT more work so that's fair enough.
     
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  23. van800

    van800

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    Was it something missing in Rider compared with VS for Win?
     
  24. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    For me, Rider offers more Unity-centric features, not less. Rider has more with less bloat in this case, so it's a complete win on the features front. But a lot of experienced programmers are more likely to go "huh, but I don't have a problem". That happened to me, so I figured that the possibility was there for hubris and so I needed to check it out properly. I did not need any of Rider's advice though, so the lure of Rider for me (Resharper) is considerably less.

    I think Rider is the better product, but that's not always a reason to pick something. VS is well-oiled, performs quickly and is second nature to me. I hit Ctrl+M then O expecting some folding to go on but nothing happened. It's those little elements of friction (even though I picked the VS control scheme on installation) that add up for VS vets.

    I do recognise Rider is better - but likely I do not need it's power, and I think most beginners to C# and Unity would benefit more from Rider. The price is likely to deter that market that benefits the most however.

    I think there are several kinds of developer with different needs so the answers 100% will vary from person to person.
     
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  25. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    There should be more tiny cows in this thread.

     
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  26. scvnathan

    scvnathan

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    I've been using Rider since it was available under the EAP program and I love it. Initially I went for it since I come from the web dev industry where I used Webstorm and IntelliJ heavily, so I feel very much at home in Rider. Much more so than VS, which seemed somewhat inscrutable to me. The code analysis and intentions are very useful to me as well.
    I used VS for a little bit before switching and I don't notice any downsides ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

    Only complaint I have right now is I think Rider doesn't seem to handle Assembly Definition files very well (and there's an open issue for supporting them so..).
     
  27. Player7

    Player7

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    I spent more than an hour customizing and going through its options and using it... suffice to say I'd see more day to day frustrations of using it for C#... Phpstorm I'm undecided.. vscode with plenty of extensions.. is not bad...frankly thinking of moving to .asp core .net though.. php/javascrap end times. So the 2 biggest noticeable issues listed above (scrollmap and poor tabs).. some more observations.. the solution explorer ..when working with unity projects is just as useless as the one in VS especially for working with Unity projects, no search filtering box..just a whole lot of sub tree folders to go through where editor assets are in sub projects folders.. this just annoys me, because obviously the files can be in very similar locations, but you have to through opening a bunch of subtrees to get to the editor folder for *.cs files... which is why there needs to be an alternative solution explorer window that is more like the unity project window right inside an ide.

    And the tab bar is ffking shht, Firefox pre quantum garbage has better tab gui customization(through css) extensions and powerfeatures for well over decade.. this shouldn't be rocket science for developers to include in some level of feature parity. Even notepad++ has ok tab support for years and that doesn't even try to be an ide for any development usage.

    Some reason Jetbrains seem to think spacing out tabs with fat padding is a really efficient way of using screenspace wisely for showing the most amount of tabs per row.. NOT. A product wanting yearly subscriptions I'd expect better built in... Don't get me wrong what it does have built in is ok, but for all its ruleset nagging, code suggestions, hinting and its somewhat decent code styling/formatting interface stuff.. it's really not doing it for me as the stuff it does do better than VS isn't really all that much better anyway. I'd expect excellent tabs, customization and features... its barely ok..and given the level of customization and extensions I've used in Eclipse IDE if I was still using Java.. I wouldn't even bother with IntelliJ either.

    Here picture.. tabs.. without the stupid close button wasting space for those who just middle click to close tabs like a sensible person who uses mouse...



    Software with shht document tab support is sad to see.. these aren't the worst.. by far.. I mean a picture of Chrome browsers S***ty tab support/implementation is shocking enough coming from a company with more access to funds for evil than sense, better off using Vivaldi if you use chrome crap for a browser.. you get all the same access chrome extensions but the tabbar implementation isn't total crap tier.

    From top to bottom....
    -Firefox, I hold as the best in power features and customization especially with tabs to ever grace a desktop...at least before Mozilla Quantum shtt decline.
    -Notepad++ .... it lacks interfacing styling, themes,... but as far as usable tabs.. it works.
    -Jetbrains Rider ...DropMe.cs is a stretched out tab on a row all to itself.. what guys.. couldn't have squeezed that onto the row above.. and all the shht on that row above onto the 2 rows above that.. really no more than 2rows max for me, and even Firefox customized shows that you should be able to squeeze 50+faconized tabs onto a single row given an avg desktop screen resolution.. its possible.. but then you'd want some other indicators of tabs that have been last used.. or tabs that show some sort of color/underline to represent unsaved content.. to make working with that number of small sized tabs easier.. mouseover thumbnail codemap preview even.... but honestly for code notepad++ is the more workable solution.. I see the full filename text on the tab.. I click, I read, I type.. not too much wasted space...for development stuff you need the some filename text to work with tab documents quickly.. obviously firefox browsing where tabs all just become favicons on a single row with that many open tabs isn't a workable solution for productivity in working with files, but the example is there to show how ffcking bad everything else is desktop world, all these half baked implementations of tab document behavior in software.. just so bad man :)

    -Vscode... bleh.. useless tabbar support.. but it can be made to look pretty if you ignore the windows looking menu bar :) The vertical tab placement is about the only thing making VScode not completely useless.. because the horizontal tabbar implementation and and default sizing is worse garbage than VS.. sure you can make it look pretty in colors... but you can't easily set padding widths to maximize space for filename text.. or control size squeezing...you practically have to use the vertical open document panel to work with open 'tabs' in vscode which makes being on a different sidebar annoying.. because they don't even have a dropdown list button of open 'tabs' not visible and they don't support multiline rows, instead forcing the user to useless tab scrolling or just work with a limited number of tabs. No wonder the peoples using these programs on mass end up forced into typing out filenames to open and refinding the documents to work on everytime.. just bad workflow for anyone with a mouse imo because its tabbar is next to useless.

    I'd put more examples on but you get the point.. stacked in order of order of betterness .. VS is somewhere around jetbrains and vscode in term of tabs, and the fact VS doesn't have multiline rows is not as bad as supporting multiline rows in such a bloated and uncustomizable manner to be almost pointless enabling imo...And on a single row.. in Rider 20px of wasted width space per tab that could be used to better show more of the document filename text with more tabs on row.. so just brainless and easily fixable issues. and the code folding in Rider... . .there is no option to set only code folding icons for methods, regions only etc.. with option to not see a shht ton of [-] [+] code folding icons all the way down my screen .. especially not for logic blocks.. its just a stupid and unnecessary amount eye clutter, and another brainless area of zero customization I would have expected better on from a Rider subscription product.. not just code folding.. on/off.. I can get that level of basic customization in VS already.

    Also a scrolling tabbar is the most shhtting useless feature ever implemented on a tabbar next to providing ffck all customization options on it altogether..

    Interestingly enough it seems VS might finally be getting around to making VS tabs better.. I can hope..

    https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/...665055-support-multiple-rows-of-document-tabs

    I took the survey to help them out.. maybe they'll get it right in VS for 2018 right?...



    The naggin of ruleset standards could be helpful .. maybe 30days is good enough training time right? .. but VS for windows users just makes more economical sense... they aren't really offering enough in Rider for windows users over the alternatives imo. If they improved tabs, improved scrollmap (built in as good as VS), add assembly browsing.. done better than VS altogether then it might be worth it maybe.. I don't care to put var for everything and don't want to see underline squiggles everywhere..so that's another issue I have that would need changing..... and is no Winform UWP designer etc .. and what about some VS extensions... of which I don't really use many, maybe Rider has some decent extensions.. I dunno.. in VS the only editor extension I use is the QT addon.. because QT support is needed when the QT IDE is dogturd tier, actually QT C++ is dogturd.. but I'm still wondering where the perfect C# multiplatform GUI solution is with preferable GUI designer built in.. it just doesn't ffcking exist.. and Unity are failing me with all there UGUI ffcks ups it keep forcing me back to learning QT which I loathe but not really much better.. hint Unity.

    Well that's my mini hijacked diary rant for the day :D
    TL:DR I don't care if you read it or not.
     
  28. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Er thanks, I think.
     
  29. Player7

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    Just found that... at least they are finally catching up ...another reason I'd stay with VS for C#, that feature comes out in 15.6
     
  30. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    The debugger attaching to Unity is smooth under Rider. Takes no time at all to kick off.
     
  31. Ryiah

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    hippocoder likes this.
  32. BrewNCode

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    And I don't like subscription pay. They should have AT LEAST a one time only pay.
     
  33. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    recursive likes this.
  34. Player7

    Player7

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  35. recursive

    recursive

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    For those still using Visual Studio, you can get Jetbrains Dotpeek integration (for free!). It's the same core decompiler Rider and Resharper for VS uses. It comes as both a standalone application, and direct VS extention (no Resharper necessary).

    Alternatively, there's an ILSpy Extension for both VS and VS Code (both free!).

    In short, at this point, no one should ever have to pay for a .NET decompiler ever again. Regardless of IDE.
     
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  36. Garrettec

    Garrettec

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    Today I decided to give Rider a try and almost immediately found pretty nasty bug, if you delete some scripts or even folders containing scripts when Rider is NOT launched and then launch Rider, it will recreate this files / folders for a short time and then remove it, but folders and meta files will stay (and Unity will log errors about "Assertion failed: Removing because the asset does not exist").

    Nice acquaintance :)
    But to be honest, despite this bug and the fact that Rider give you no option to close files without saving changes, everything else seems convenient at first glance.

    UPD: Checked with Rider 2018.1 EAP and was not able to reproduce the bug.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  37. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah I'm seeing it being pretty much the only resharper solution for macs and linux at this point.
     
  38. Testeria

    Testeria

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  39. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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  40. iamthwee

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    Apart from the epic thread title and play on words I'm liking this IED so far.

    fds.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  41. frosted

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    From someone here who uses resharper + vs, is there any compelling reason to consider Rider?
     
  42. DaDonik

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    As someone who used resharper + vs for some years, i can say that i totally switched to Rider and i'm not going back.
    For me Rider is starting up a lot faster then VS and overall feels more responsive. Also looks cleaner to me. That may be a totally subjective thing, but i totally recommend you to get the 30 day trial and check it out.

    Oh and Rider actually knows the Unity API, which results in better intellisense =)
     
  43. Garrettec

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    Same here, I've been using VS + resharper for 4 years, then I made a struggle and gave Rider a try, after several days I felt like I've been always using Rider.

    Obvious advantages are:
    - way much faster launch time (because of resharper VS starts for about 30 seconds, whereas Rider take about 5 seconds to start and be completely ready)
    - Rider install time is almost instant, while VS seem installing for ages
    - VS have trouble with "inconsistent line endings" (or at least had when I switch to Rider, don't know if this problem still relevant, but I hated this one)
    - and yes, intellisense feels more "Unity friendly"
    - if you call Declaration (F12) for some method, Rider doesn't care if it is "internal" or in "dll", it will simply decompile it, I don't recall VS doing this

    So yeah, take 30 day trial and check it out :)
     
  44. FuguFirecracker

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    I was enjoying my Rider 30 day trial. Lots to love.
    Until I noticed that script compile times were frustratingly slow.
    20 to 30 seconds of hang-time every time I made a change to a script.

    I went back to VisualStudio.
    Still it was 20 to 30ish seconds to compile scripts.
    I deleted the Rider Plugin folder.
    Compile time dropped to 5 seconds.

    Maybe someone else has experienced this, maybe it's anomalous to my set-up.
    Either way... disappointing.
     
  45. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I've been using Resharper since first version back in early 2000's. I love it, cant live without it. All the shortcuts it brings to the table is just amazing and is good both for productivity and ergonomics (no use of mouse). I never use the mouse inside VS, I wish Unity was as keyboard friendly, though hard because of the artist nature of the program.

    You can see here I dont even touch the mouse once I leave Unity and are in VS




    The only downside is performance, resharper is really taxing on the computer for large projects. Even on my monster of a machine there is a noticeable impact. When working on my computer at my customer with no NVMe and only 16 gigs ram It sometimes slow downs to a complete stop for seconds.

    Is rider better in this regard?
     
  46. frosted

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    @AndersMalmgren solution wide analsysis is often the problem here. I generally turn it off.
     
  47. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Posts:
    3,130
    It's opt in btw, so it's off by default
     
  48. frosted

    frosted

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,164
    I donno, I am still running vs2012 and resharper 6 because performance was awful in later versions.

    I really liked the improved ctr+t menu in newer resharpers, but I decided to roll back to the 5 year old setup last time I tried current gen. Newer iterations never got the same level of speed and responsiveness.
     
  49. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Posts:
    3,130
    You can't use such old versions for VS 2017 so it's not an option for me, plus I use many of the new features. They should focus and entire major version only to performance
     
  50. frosted

    frosted

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Posts:
    3,164
    Which new features are particularly useful?