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I've completed my overview.

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by bigl2369, Nov 1, 2014.

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  1. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I have a large document containing everything I know. I describe computers and gaming in general. There is also a long list of terms. The terms are divided into groups of terms.

    Here is the document https://www.dropbox.com/s/065vx2nygo44u0q/everything.rtf?dl=0

    I've been doing research in the fields of application/web/game design and audio production for years. The purpose of writing this document was to prove to myself and the rest of the world that I have gathered a basic understanding.

    I may receive some flack because I describe terms differently than a formal instructions document would. The simplification of terms is in an effort to express how I understand them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  2. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I think maybe the best question is why are you posting this here in Game Design? It seems like it is better suited for the Gossip forum, if it is even a match for the Unity forums at all.

    That is not meant as an insult to the time and effort you put into it. It is simply my view on the result. I am not sure what we are supposed to get from this? You have a list of various elements of programming and graphics creation. And you describe a bit about what a computer is.

    The best way I can describe what I get from this is witnessing a severe case of Analysis Paralysis: spending so much time analyzing something that you never actually get started building anything.

    Do you have a game you want to create? Honestly, I think you'd get more out of using Blender to create a simple model or two. Or drawing some images in a paint program. Then bringing them into Unity and setting up a simple scene. Do you have Unity installed and are you using it?
     
  3. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I'm sorry if this is not in the right section. It is just a general overview and perhaps it does not belong in the game design forum because it is about lots of different things, not just game design.

    I don't think I'm hurting myself by analyzing. Thinking and drawing conclusions is the main way that people make decisions.

    I do have ideas for games that I want to create. And no I don't have unity installed. I know this is a unity forum, but I'm just coming here because unity is the most popular game designing software.

    I want something a little bit more tailored. I'm looking for an editor that has been designed to develop a specific game. It doesn't seem like people understand what I mean when I say I want to work with an engine that's already been made. I don't think its a cheap excuse, nor do I think that I wouldn't still have to write a lot of code.
     
  4. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I'm looking for development tools designed especially for one game. Meaning the editing tools were designed to develop one title.

    I want to be able to log in as a game master and do some editing that way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  5. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    We cannot answer that which you have not asked or specified. Your overview's list is covered by pretty much every major engine on the market. It is too vague to narrow down your needs.

    Give us an idea of what you are after and we can probably name an engine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
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  6. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I want to make an mmofps. I already have an idea for it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  7. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    Ryiah I think you want to suggest a game development program different than unity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  8. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Both BigWorld and Hero Engine are capable of making an MMOFPS. At the very least they make for excellent prototyping tools until you have the actual mechanics hammered down and are ready to work on the implementation.

    Why does that matter? You don't even have Unity installed. While it can definitely be used to make an MMO, it simply lacks the server-side backend that those other engines already offer. You would be needlessly adding more work for your team which equates to more of your budget.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  9. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    What exactly is your question? You are making many statements, but not really giving any direction or asking anything, there isn't a single question mark in anything you have written.
    For obvious reasons, no such thing is available. You can build one. You can use Unity or another engine and build tools on top of it meet your needs.

    Not entirely. Decisions are reached by considering available data. The more data the better the result, as is the quality of the data. The best data is experiential. You said you have spent years researching. Does that research include trying out tools? Writing code? Modeling? Making games? Thinking != doing. To build a game (or any other complex task), you simply need to do it. The minute you start building a game, you will toss that "list" out and really start to determine what you need to actually know. More importantly, "researching" for "years" without doing is wasted time. Tech changes constantly, to have an success or even of having a chance of finishing you have to be practically (applied) learning all the time.

    Your 'list' is... somewhat confusing. Are those things you know or need to know? Moreover they are kind of nonsensical. You have list low level elements of a sub-set of skill, like "Array" or "Loops" and high level concepts like "Graphic Design" and "UI". A list containing elements like those together is pretty much just random. Additionally, virtually every definition you have is either incorrect, or incomplete to the point of having no value. Certainly have no relevance to their siblings.

    The code section, for example, contains a handful of structural elements of programing. Most have very loose or overly case-specific descriptions, with no real understanding of what they do. Learning a description of a what an array is, isn't going to help learn programing. You are missing a ton of conceptual elements that render the items listed as useless. (most of the other sections are the same).

    Simply start building, that will give you some perspective and narrow your focus. Building games isn't assembling a desk from Ikea. The only possible way to be fully prepared to build a game, is to have built many games already. (and even then you are never fully prepared).

    Let us know what you have done already, and what it is you are asking. People on this forum are exceedingly helpful, and there is a ton of knowledge and experience here. (not just with Unity). But no one can accurately answer an unasked question.
     
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  10. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    People have called my document crap numerous times now.I don't think its crap, I think its the best representation of everything I know. I truly believe every description to be correct.

    One question I have for the people who have said my list was bad was: which specific descriptions are incorrect. No one could give me any straight answers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  11. eelstork

    eelstork

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    Nobody is disrespecting you here, and you don't need to make a game to earn respect on this forum. What I gathered is you are looking for information about game engines (which doesn't really belong to the game design section).

    One issue is that, from reading the above (NOT the large document, only your original post!), I expected a kind of life sum / theory of everything / hoax. I had no idea that you're looking for anything at all.

    So, your post could be somewhere else ( Gossip section maybe? As already suggested... ) and might be looking something like...

    ______________________________

    Title: "Looking for a game engine..."

    Content:
    - Summary of required features
    - Complete list of requirements is here (web-link)
    ______________________________

    Unless you've actually got a book drafted which would be a decent interpretation of your original post, in which case should you be looking for a publisher?
    As to why I'm not pressing the link to dropbox? Because I don't need a description of computers and gaming in general.

    I think you may have good/interesting things in mind, please don't take offence and keep trying to get your ideas across, you will get flak (not flack) but forums are still a good place to get some exposure for your ideas.
     
  12. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    No one is calling your list crap, but you have provided no context or reason behind it. It simply doesn't make any sense. Why are you posting it? Do you want feedback? The natural assumption is that you do, since you are posting in a game development forum. You said "here is a list", and posted it. Why? What are you expecting to happen here?

    Most likely you aren't getting answers because they are all wrong to some degree, and largely common knowledge. All the descriptions are incorrect. (either wrong, or very, very incomplete.)
    A few examples:

    FUNCTION:An executable command.
    Neither executable or a command. A function (method) is a subroutine.

    ARRAYS:A list filled with variables.
    An array is not a list, and doesn’t contain variables.

    UPDATE:Executed constantly. It is different from a function because a function is executed only when it is told.
    You listed Update under code, but it isn’t generic, it is specific to a an API like Unity’s. Also, it is not different from a function, it is one. One that is called by every frame on when active.

    CODE:Code is a system of algorithms. These algorithms work because of syntax. Syntax is how the computer understands the code. Another word for syntax is language. Code often references databases.
    Code is not a system of algorithms, it is a set of instructions. The instructions do not “work” because of syntax, syntax is describes/defines the order and structure of the instructions and language. Syntax is not a another word for language, it is a part of a language. Code does not reference databases, though you can write code to communicate with a database/service.

    NETWORK AND DATABASE:For setting up clients and servers. Databasing is about saving information
    Very, very incomplete. “Databasing” is not a term. And saving is information is only one part, and not even the biggest part (generally speaking).

    GRAPHIC DESIGN:Graphic design is the modeling, animation and rendering of 3d or 2d.
    No, those elements are typically referred to as the art, or sometimes visuals or visual design (in the collective sense). Graphic design is separate and specific discipline altogether. Though games often do employ some elements/application of GD, it is not the term for art of the game.

    CONTROLLERS:Controllers are for physics and movement. They accept input from code, keyboard, mouse or controller.
    “Controllers” is not a specific term. It can mean a variety of things. Mice/kb/joysticks/game controllers are generally referred to as “Input”. In software it typically means a something that manages communication between other elements (usually data and display), but again, non-specific, often in games the term is used more broadly.

    UI:For menus and interface. They accept input from code, keyboard, mouse or controller.
    UI is User Interface. It can refer to the system, discipline or to elements. It is bi-directional, not input. UI is construct of the code. It is a very broad area.

    Well, you get the point. Basically everything you listed is like that. Incomplete and incorrect understanding of virtually every term. And under “code” you listed 6 things. None of which pertain to theory or application, just six random things, out of thousands and thousands of elements/aspects. It isn’t a list of things you “know”, it is a list of things you don’t understand. If it was done as a form of research, just use google/wikipedia/unity docs to get a correct understanding of the topics.

    Forget the list. Everything listed (not the definitions) are common things that every game developer knows, and it missing literally hundreds or thousands of other things that you need to know to build a game. It has no value at all to others. It is so completely inaccurate that it won’t help you either, except as a list of things you need to better understand.



    So let’s just start over. Since you have come here, and taken the time to post, presumably you want to discuss something, get feedback, some help or just general information. It’s a discussion forum, and overall a pretty helpful one. What do you want to discuss, or how can we help you?
     
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  13. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    You want a game engine tailored to you. I get that. The problem is... that doesn't exist. If it did exist, it would cost millions of dollars because of how much money it would save development studios. What you are asking for is a magical artifact the likes of which this world has never seen.
     
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  14. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I need something better. There would need to be various fields involved. It would teach you how to make a concerted effort at the entire industry. It wouldn't be just game making, it would be everything. A course teaching you how to start a successful company.

    It would teach you how to use lots of different software. After taking the course you could train your team. Before long you should have a group of people working on a single project who all know what they're doing.

    I don't think unity is the right environment. I think there would need to be special software.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  15. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    There are university courses. I've got a friend going through one that covers actual game design and implementation with Unity Pro. Game design is a complex subject that is very large and simply cannot be covered in a short period of time.

    I'd have to ask him the exact name of his course, but he's taking it at the University of Baltimore, Maryland. It is a lot of work from the way he describes it.
     
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  16. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    I've been going over this in my head... such a strange topic. Maybe I've approached this wrong. So, let's assume the safest thing... you're just a kid. So what you need is to be told what to learn next, because the world is big and you're lost.

    Learn to code in C#.

    Just do it. No questions. No... "but, but, but....". Save your allowance or get a pdf of a real C# beginner book and start with page 1. Just read. Follow the instructions.

    Those guys are smart and they know how to teach you.

    When you have questions, I'll see you in the scripting forum.

    You're not going out into war until you complete boot camp.
     
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  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    I'd recommend actually typing the examples into Visual C# as well as doing any exercises at the end of chapters. It helps to get it memorized.

    Also while I don't know if it is any good, there is a free ebook (legally free and distributable) made by Programmer's Heaven covering C#.

    http://ebooks.programmersheaven.com/csharp_ebook.pdf

    Here's a wiki-style "eBook" as well. It looks far better than the Programmer's Heaven one, but I still haven't really done more than briefly glance at a chapter.

    http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/C_Sharp_Essentials
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  18. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    I think even that's too much for a Lvl 1 Noob... I still remember being a noob. It sucks. Nothing makes sense, it all leads nowhere, etc.

    But yes, doing the exercises is part of the deal. Crawl before you walk n all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  19. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    I want special software that does everything. Graphic design, games, video/music/broadcasting and web design. Everyone would be able to work on the game and the website while its online and at the same time.

    You come up with a concept and the professionals would build the game and set up the editors. It would cost ten thousand dollars and come with ten hours of tutorials. The tutorials would teach you specifically how to expand the game, as the game would already be fully functional. Should you mess up the editors and the game, you would have to pay the professionals ten thousand dollars again to remake it for you.

    The investor would make money by selling the game, subscriptions and music too even.

    The professionals would make money every time you wanted a new game made for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  20. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony would disagree with you. All three of the major console providers are providing support for Unity on their platforms. Clearly it isn't simply for personal projects.

    A single tool handling everything. Better known as a jack-of-all-trades but master at none. A tool that handles everything cannot by its nature be specialized. Yet you need specialization in order to take full advantage of everything there is.

    A budget of $10,000 won't cover a single developer let alone a company building your game for you. Scratch, template, or otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  21. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Might as well double post because the OP is just going to edit his statements rather than make new posts. I remember being new as well. I started at the age of 12 and taught myself programming with the language's reference manual.

    I got into programming because of Zork. I was so impressed by how it handled language processing that I decided to learn programming. Within a year I was making text adventure games that, while certainly not on the level of quality found in Zork, were more advanced than those cheesy two word systems.

    I did not sit around making excuses or claiming there were not enough tutorials. I learned using a reference manual because the Internet simply did not exist at the time and I had no other documentation. Hard to believe at times that has been almost two decades since then.

    I apologize if this sounds condescending to some people, but I'm sick of this nonsense attitude from the OP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
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  22. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Many large companies develop with Unity as well. Some of the largest entertainment and game companies in the world. EA uses Unity extensively for their mobile titles. There is also that one huge company... drawing a blank on the name at the moment, its that one with all the wookies and comic book guys... It'll come to me... anyway, they are pretty much one the top mobile developers (somewhere in the top 2 or 3, depending on the quarter), they use Unity almost exclusively now.

    As a Tech Artist, I am often referred to as a single tool that can handle anything. ;)
    But, yea, @Ryiah is completely on the money. There is no good reason to combine tools for a single package. Right now you can have the best in class tools, all a single keystroke a way. Besides, even if it were a remote possibility, the problem is never about having the tools, it is about knowing how use them.
     
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  23. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    The professionals would make the software, and custom project files for the editor. Based on your needs, the professionals would build the game and website completely for you. You would be responsible for learning how to use the tools and expand upon the game and website. After purchasing the software you would be required to purchase licenses for every other member of your team.

    All the license holder would have to do is simply launch the application. The software would automatically sync everything to your machine. The graphic projects, video/music broadcasting, website or the game could all be edited by anyone.

    The versatility for your team would be ridiculous. You would be able to work together on so many things. You could have some people working on the game. Some on graphics. Some on audio. Some on movies. Some on broadcasting. Some on the website. Everyone would be able to see and work on everything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  24. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    No, I don't. Assisting others is far more rewarding for me. Yet I cannot do that when you are completely ignoring the attempts being made to assist you. Not that I am the only one calling your statements wrong. There are others doing it as well.

    When someone calls me wrong, I generally try to verify why they do so. If only one person calls me out, I'm inclined to believe it might be them but I still do research to verify. If multiple people do it though, I'm more inclined to believe I actually am wrong.

    Yet when everyone is calling you wrong, you're being stubborn and insisting you know better than everyone else. You really don't though. Your evidence, both your posts and that worthless overview, make it abundantly clear you don't.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  25. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    It's not impossible, it is just utterly ridiculous. First people use all kinds of different tools. Second, there is nothing to be gained. They all work together now.
     
  26. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Alright, I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but clearly trolling. You had me almost convinced until you posted that. A little too far with the idiot child routine. Good one though.
     
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  27. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    I will admit that there is a bit of schadenfreude I experience when saying "Nope. Try 'gain" but no, that's not all there is.

    See, people like yourself come and harass good natured people like the ones on here. Look, read for yourself... they're actually trying to help you. It's hilarious. I am much more cynical, I think you exist to waste these people's valuable time...

    So *ehrm* la la la.... mi mi mi....

    This foe is beyond any of you...
    YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!

    We both know you're never going to make anything, so why not stop now? You're embarrassing yourself. Trollololol along, before this thread gets closed like the last one.
     
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  28. bigl2369

    bigl2369

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    If you don't like my overview then fine. I thought it was good and I still believe that my descriptions are correct.

    If you don't like my posts I don't know what to tell you either. I'm getting way off topic from the original post and talking about an approach to the industry that I think would be super cool.

    You keep saying "these people are trying to help you". I'm not trying to get help. I'm trying to get a little bit of respect and a good conversation. And alls anyone does is say I'm trolling. Am I wasting your time? Am I wasting forum space? Why can't I just post what I want to post?
     
  29. RJ-MacReady

    RJ-MacReady

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    How cool?

    Using the Calder method of Lyrical Artistry:
    Vanilla Ice, Ice T or Ice Cube?
     
  30. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    It wasn't and they aren't.

    Not only are you getting your definitions wrong, but you're not even posting in the right section of the forums.
     
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  31. dreamlarp

    dreamlarp

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    And here is your problem. You are stating you can teach others something and you make a huge list of what you know but you do not take the time to figure out that this is in the wrong forum. Nor do you even know the game engines and what games they would be best for.

    You say you need something better. But how do you know this? what engines do you even know well enough to ask this?

    Take more time and add much more to your list. I know once you did this you would not make the mistake again of posting the way that you have.
     
  32. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    This doesn't seem to have anything to do with game design.

    --Eric
     
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