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Is Unity Considering bringing world building and development tools into VR?

Discussion in 'AR/VR (XR) Discussion' started by Arowx, Dec 18, 2014.

  1. Arowx

    Arowx

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    What if Unity adapts it's development ide to work in VR, so as a developer or artist you can step into your virtual world and build within it?

    Like this but only better...



    Although if you can get it to this level ...



    And if it could be networked and collaborative. Then you might just be onto something really next generation!
     
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  2. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Long ways off.
     
  3. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    I would say we are a good far bit away from anything like this. Sure looks nice in the second video but even if it would work like that I'd still rather do my modeling, texturing etc the traditional way as I don't see how this can be anywhere near precise.
     
  4. hypeNate

    hypeNate

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    Yeah. It's interesting to think about, though...trying to craft the UX/UI for in-world Editor tools would be a challenge.

    Speaking of which: has anyone played with these UI widgets from Leap Motion in a project?

    http://blog.leapmotion.com/introducing-widgets-fundamental-ui-elements-unity/

    Or encountered any other methods for allowing detailed interactions in a game (apart from the 'gaze to click' method)?
     
  5. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    I was interested in the Leap Motion but held back. Seeing now that Oculus basically hired the Nimble VR guys I rather wait for whatever comes from that.

    Thomas
     
  6. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @LaneFox really???



    I think VR is going to move fast, and it's a new arena so Unity can't afford to wait around IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  7. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Yes, really. That looks absolutely abysmal to work in.
     
  8. Thomas-Pasieka

    Thomas-Pasieka

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    All I see in this video are a bunch of premade meshes being put/snapped into place. Not really revolutionary now is it? Again, I don't see a practical use of doing anything serious like that in VR. For now it remains a gimmick.
     
  9. Arowx

    Arowx

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    What about this for sculpting in VR.



    OK these are early days and should be viewed as prototypes but what did the first generation of 3d Modelling and CAD packages look like. And VR has not even really begun yet, we only have demo/prototype hardware.

    @Thomas Pasieka Exactly this makes anyone with lego construction skills a potential VR builder or modeller.

    It will be interesting to see how the game engines, and modelling tools adapt to this new space.

    But imagine if your entire development and 3d modelling team could work in the same virtual 3d space or spaces. Regardless of where in the world they are based.

    Programmers and modellers could look up from their virtual desktops out onto the vista of the game world they are building. You wouldn't need to surround your physical desk with models as you could surround your virtual desk with animated and interacting characters (with optional mute).

    Well you might need some defence turrets to keep errant monsters at bay.

    Style options might be needed as who would want to live and work in Racoon City or Silent Hill for two years!
     
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  10. LaneFox

    LaneFox

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    Didn't say it couldn't ever happen... Just..

    Long ways off ;)
     
  11. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @Thomas Pasieka you could have a 3d modelling challenge to make a VR 3D version of the Unity UI?
     
  12. screenname_taken

    screenname_taken

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    It would be more time consuming (and less precise) to wave your arms around and stand up and rotate around to see your model than to simply move your finger to a different key on the keyboard.
    It's one thing to experience the finished product, but a different thing to use it day in and day out to actually make it.
    "But it will be like sculpting" A sculptor has direct feedback, his hand can't go through his work. And if it does, it done for. Also he/she won't have to have widgets and snapping coordinates and the like.
    By the end of the day, if someone with Maya/ZBrush has 2 models finished by the time it takes the VR guy to have 1, the VR loses. Just think that you'll have the whole room as a desktop. next thing you'll know is that you'll be looking for the misplaced virtual polygon brush that is probably behind the UI, or you forgot it behind the model in mid air. Modeling in VR isn't something new, Maya had the capability of stereo rendering for years.
     
  13. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @screenname_tak Well most zbrush modellers do not get any feedback from their modelling, apart from 2d visual, maybe 3d if they use a 3d monitor.

    There is the option to map physical things into the VR space, so your keyboard, mouse, joystick, desk could be mapped and represented in VR.

    And it's VR not a block of marble you can zoom/scale/rotate and reposition the item with a gesture or mouse movement.

    There is also some clever ultrasound technology that could allow you to 'feel' a 3d VR interface or model. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/invisible-...sing-ultrasound-created-by-scientists-1477836

    And I think the real benefits are from a collaborative VR workspace. If you can all work together and see what you are doing then the synergy that can happen in a group of talented creatives is more likely to take effect.

    That's if you don't end up building blasters and turning your VR space into an FPS.

    Imagine working in an environment where a just finished animated monster can be launched at the production lead, and the production lead and game designer team up to take it down and then spawn it around the office for playtesting and review.
     
  14. screenname_taken

    screenname_taken

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    You can use a haptic sculpting pen, and zbrush has a fadeout on how much you can sculp. It's why you would go over the same area more than once, if you pass the tool over it won't just cut a whole chunk, so they would either have resistance pushing back on them (and adding to the precision- instead of just telling you that there's something. Same thing with the trigger on a gun, it has a stop right before you actually fire the bullet) or the program simply won't do the operation and you'd pass the mouse over the area again.

    You can map the keyboard and have it in the space, yes, but you'll go up and down up and down. I'm trying to tell you that you'll have to cover a big space of moving around.

    The collaborative VR would be nice indeed, as there are already collaborative spaces that simply aren't in VR yet. But it would be for showing what you've done, not actually making the thing right then. Showing your 3D model, and then someone could point out or highlight something. And yes get a crud tool to modify it a bit. But you'll have to go back and refine it later on. Do this, have your arms sticking out infront of you, for more than 5 minutes. Don't touch something, don't rest them to someplace. A sculptor can actually use the art piece to rest and stabilize his arms. A carpenter the same.
    Try to air-type, or start doing movements in the air that would correspond to you extruding the face of a polygon. Now watch that your arms will get tired after poling on air because there isn't something physical to rest upon. The issues are more than just UI.
    I'm saying this as a graphic designer. Simply painting with a brush gets your arms tired, just going up and down. Then they get jittery. Resting your arm on something and then doing a motion is a lot steadier. simply drawing a circle is easier.
     
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  15. Arowx

    Arowx

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    @screenname_taken LOL But think about how much fitter you would be, the calories you could burn off in a good 3d sculpting session.

    But couldn't you just rest your elbows on your desk and move your hands in the 3d space in front of you the same way you do in the 2d space of your desk with a mouse or pen.
     
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  16. screenname_taken

    screenname_taken

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    They are always resting on the desk... And i'm only moving 4 fingers up and down hitting keys on the keyboard, the movement is minimal. If you are using your arms as your 3D tool, and then you have to rest a bit and then continue, you are waisting time, which was my 1st argument. If you are going to be using a VR set as a monitor, then what difference is there than using a 3D monitor with glasses and headtracking? The whole point of a VR setup is the freedom it would give for experiencing something.

    Resting my elbows on the desk and using the arms for doing work, would mean that my hands turned into 2D tools... I wouldn't be able to go up or down. Well i could go up, but not down as there would be a desk.
     
  17. Arowx

    Arowx

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    OK maybe you're looking at VR wrong, you're comparing what you do with your hands in VR to what you do with a mouse and keyboard.

    What about if you compare VR to what you do with a tablet or ipad device, in effect you move your fingers or gesture to interact with a 2d plane. Have you made a 3d model on an ipad or touch screen device?

    Or like I mentioned earlier nothing stopping you from mapping your 2D interface keyboard and mouse into VR. The main benefit for VR is you get a 3D view of the object/model/environment and therefore should not spend as much time checking the positioning and look for things you position in a 3d VR space as you do in a 2D vr space.

    Ha but you like me need orthographic to position things then we add an orthographic screen 2d to your 3d VR workspace. Imagine just having to look left, up, down, right etc to see orthographic views of the 3d model you are working on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  18. screenname_taken

    screenname_taken

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    "Have you made a 3d model on an ipad or touch screen device?" So use fingers (relatively thick sausages) to do something that may need pinpoint accuracy? And as you said *it is a 2D plane* AND you have something physical that pushes your fingers back.

    About positioning stuff in 3D, you have vertices. You are moving dots around, 2D is actually easier as you can judge the distances. In stereo you'll be able to tell on average and then you'll test if it clips something or not. You'll spend more time arranging things exactly because it's 3D and you lack the direct relations of multiple 2D planes. Haven't you tried to rearrange your furniture in your living room? It's hell.

    Imagine just having to look left, up, down, right etc to see orthographic views of the 3d model you are working on.
    So my 3D model is not infront of me but rather i'm sitting inside the model? And now i have the whole room to focus on and give my attention to, instead of just something infront of me that i won't have to turn my head like crazy.

    I'm trying to explain that it would be tiresome to do actual full-on modeling in full VR instead of just throwing around premade stuff, but now i'm beginning to think you may be trolling a bit :p
     
  19. Arowx

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    No I think it's you don't seem to understand that you are already working in a 3d space and any aspect of that space you can take into or map into a VR space.

    Do you have a 3, 6 or 9 screen display or an IMAX screen or CAVE system in your office? You could have all and any of these you need in a VR space all that you would need is a single hi-definition virtual reality headset.

    Have you tried VR?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  20. TheSniperFan

    TheSniperFan

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    @Arowx :
    The first video is a typical "I did it, because I can" thing. It's something you do to learn and gain experience, and not to really use it. You created a virtual workspace that would behave exactly like an ordinary one, if it wasn't for some MASSIVE drawbacks.

    How much time have you spend working/playing with the Oculus Rift? I assume not very much (if at all), because you'd know the answer to your question otherwise. 100%-VR-Tools are just a plain bad idea right now and this won't change anytime soon (and probably never).

    As far as Unity goes, AR would be far more suitable for enhancing the development process. Another thing would be using VR for certain aspects of your tools. Having a feature that lets you step into your game-world to examine your environments in life-size directly built-in, could greatly aid developers and artists.


    The second one is something you don't need an HMD but a CAVE for. Certainly interesting but far, far, faaaaaaaaar beyond anything UT would do (for financial reasons alone).
     
  21. Arowx

    Arowx

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    OK We disagree but I think the killer app for VR will be a world/game building engine.
     
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