Is this Unity 3 soldier absolutely necessary ?

Yup, that's basically what I'm referring to: The military really "got it" when it comes to game-based learning. They also "got it" when it comes to movie-based learning (they're pretty generous when it comes to supporting movies with a strong "pro-military theme" - it's interesting when you look at Avatar and realize that with all the CG-stuff they probably just didn't need the military to support them because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have supported that kind of movie ... Transformers is a pretty good example of a movie that's probably "military funded").

When you have a look at serious games / game based learning, doing stuff for the military is probably the biggest market you could get into if that's really what you want to support. Question is: Do I want to support that? And: Do I want the game engine I'm using to show support for that in their splash screen? And if you don't understand why someone might not like that - imagine Unity using a symbol of Christianity or Buddhism or something similar in their splash screen. Wouldn't you find that weird?

It's a funny coincidence that the first major release of Unity after Unity HQ was moved to the US suddenly has this military flavor ... of course, it's their choice what kind of stuff they put in their splash screen but taumel's "Photoshop has porn in their splash screen"-joke certainly made me laugh for a good reason.

 

Oh ... I didn't catch that. Unity moved their headquarters to USA? Wow. Didn't expect that.
I was somehow still feeling a little European Union Patriotic while using Unity so far ....

 

@jashan - You've made some good points and I can see your point of view. Personally, I wasn't particularly impressed by the boot camp demo (didn't seem all that big an improvement over the 2.5 "island" demo or some of the tech demos that were created with 2.6) nor some of the "improvements" made in 3.0. So the splash screen is the least my issues when it comes to version 3.0 and Unity. But then again, as usual, I'm in the minority and perhaps that's also why the splash screen didn't offend me. I've grown accustomed to ignoring the things that don't directly affect me and focusing on those things that do.

 

Kahuna, you are not in the minority though. The vocal whiners are int the minority. Remember, Unity has over 100,000 registered users. If only 1% actually use it, that is still 1,000 users. Of that very low estimate of 1,000 active users, we have a small handful that can't stop their whining about the splash screen. There are probably three groups: the people who really think it's a big deal (about a dozen on this thread), the people who love (but not enough to talk about how it is great, so not many), and a very large majority who really don't think much of it and just regard it as part of waiting for Unity to load.

Would I find a symbol of Christianity of Buddhism weird? Maybe, maybe not. If they used a cathedral for an architectural walkthrough, it would not be weird. If it were The Last Supper, that would be strange. I find it more weird that you would make the comparison of a soldier from their demo as being equivalent to imaginary religious proselytization. That you infer a connection from Unity operations in San Francisco to a soldier being on their splash screen is weird as well.

Really, it's becoming a bit of a joke.

 

Most of Unity, and 95% of the developers, are still in Europe. There are about 10 people in our SF "headquarters" out of 80 employees. The Bootcamp demo is not some American influence

It was initially influenced by "Battlefield: Bad Company" as a sort of sandbox that would work well during one-on-one demonstrations at conferences like GDC.

Anyway, the initial discussion was mildly interesting, but arguing over the splash screen and what your client may or may not see for 3 seconds while Unity loads is pretty silly... I don't like it either though, but purely for the over use of sun shafts everywhere in Unity 3 marketing

 

I agree it's silly but it's silly from Unity's side.

You say only three seconds. Now would you mind if Unity would show some porn as a splash screen? Shouldn't be a problem as it's only for three seconds, right? Somehow, don't ask me why, i sense that you wouldn't do it.

Now just imagine that this kind of military content has the same relevance to some serious clients and then you get a better understanding. Whoever came up with the idea is more part of the Unity teenager combo. Do the official educational versions also offer some military content? I suspect you're clever enough to know on your own that this wouldn't be the right way, depending on whom you educate and where you're doing it.

 

Since when does Unity have a startup splash screen?!?!?! 0_o

I'm on Mac and I don't see one on startup.

 

(Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but there is simply too much here for me to read and not get distracted.)

Perhaps an option to customise it could be introduced?

 

Comparing it to porn, really? You cannot be serious. I understand that some people have an allergic reaction to anything military related, some people are making fools of themselves. There is no reason to make it something a user can customize, there are only a few people whining about it.

 

I bought pro v3 early on and have been receiving the beta updates all summer. I enjoyed not only being notified of the updates, but the surprise of each version having a new splash image. I cannot remember them all, but now wish I could. For many of them, I would sometimes look at them in wonder about their intent or it might spike my imagination before it would blink out and open the main UI.

I am a teacher in a university. I have been using virtools for over six years teaching courses in gaming, simulation and virtual environments. This year I have decided to migrate to Unity for my next class after using it personally for close to a year. For the past five years my students have been from many disciplines (architecture, art history, psychology, art, education, geography, etc.) Most of them are interested in games for education, or simulations for their graduate research. When I have taught undergraduates, of course they are focused on fps games, but I ask them to explore more creative variations and consider the wider applications of using game technology. Creative ideas are what make one fps better than another too.

I was very disappointed to see the new splash screen, and especially when realizing it appears to be the final one for v3 after so many during its beta development. When I look at it, I do not wonder. I do not have my imagination teased. I don't think of anything other than one clear recognition of what its meaning is.

While many issues based on personal opinions can be shared about the splash image, my concern is about it suggesting a limited range of thinking for its use when it opens on the screen in front of new eyes. Even those two standing stones in version 2.X may have gotten a little bit tiresome for me, but I never stopped wondering what they might represent for the people that designed it.

my two bits. I hope it gets changed.

 

I never even looked at the splashis ... my i7 + 4 hdd raid 5 is not exactly slow so it didn't do more than a blink at best anyway ...
I personally couldn't care less about it and wouldn't be unhappy if it got just lost, saves another 0.0x s for loading the splash image

 

Uh, Unity is primarily a games engine, FPS/Military games are a huge market - probably the largest in terms of unit sales alone, Unity has already made examples in many other genres for previous versions, Unity wasn't seen as an engine capable for FPS/Shooters so they wished to change this preconception, ipso facto sic.

 

This thread is comical.

Did I just read someone comparing a military game to porno? Grow up ... someone has been brain washed by FOX News.

 

You might consider the fact that in some countries, people are significantly less offended by boobs than by guns. I guess that was taumel's point (or maybe his point was that people are as offended by guns as by boobs - but in any case, this is my point ;-) ). It's a matter of cultural differences and since Unity is targetted at a world-wide audience, it's something that should be considered, even if you personally might be living in some country where people will allow thousands of zombie-shooters in their AppStore but cry out "porn, OMG, this is EVIL, we need to take care of our kids" just because of some boobs.

Of course, there's also "game culture" and I agree that in that particular culture, violence, guns and soldiers are pretty dominant. It's also understandable that UT wants to be taken seriously in that particular culture. The problem is that not everyone who likes games also likes guns - and not even everyone who uses Unity uses it to create games. So there again: Go beyond your small horizon. While maybe some game people won't take Unity seriously until the next greatest military FPS has been created with it, there's also some people who won't take you seriously when you use a product that has a soldier and a gun in its splash screen.

Just like some people would rather not be associated with porn, some people would prefer to not be associated with soldiers and guns. And some people would prefer not to be associated with sun shafts ;-)

Personally, I find neither boobs nor guns appropriate for a splash screen, even though guns are obviously more "game related". But it's not related to the games I like to play or create.

Is that splash screen maybe only visible in Windows? Thank God I got a Mac ;-) ...

 

I would thank god, if he would exist, that i was born in a boobs beat guns country but nevertheless both shouldn't be in a product which has a broad field of applications and where it's contraproductive for some. Beside of this did you ever wonder whom you want to advertise with it? The user who has to watch it, already installed/bought the product and by using the product and publishing content he will be confronted with that it's Unity he's using so many times, so... i'm sorry but i see zero usage and not a well thought out idea behind this, therefore after giving mild as well as harsh feedback, i hope you remove/alter it for updated versions!

 

I'm unsure, but removing the splash screen is a pro feature, right?

Either way, I think it would be awesome to be able to customize the splash screen. Like, put in your own image, but there would be a mandatory Unity logo that you could reposition in your Unity application.

 

Come now jashan, I'm sure I saw your name in the Leasure Suit Larry credits (or... err.. a FRIEND told me they saw your name, ahh, in the credits, pssssst, taumel... that is where you saw him right? )

[seriousnesss on - a little ]
Ok, so perhaps 11 pages is a little drawn out for a spash screen and a demo project (I wonder if this is a side effect of that monster thread on iPhone developer agreements that ran wild over the spring/summer?). Truth is, in a global market, there are very, very few things that aren't offensive ... somewhere. Don't believe me? I DARE you to TRY and have a meaningful discussion about ANYTHING at the UN! go for it

We do, like it or not, have to take it for what it is... a business decision (presumably based on information UT has, that we don't have or need to know), that targets their marketing dollars toward a known gap or opportunity in their market. I'm sure it wasn't a deliberate attempt at cultural, ethical, moral, or otherwise affront to anyone intentionally. As far as I can tell, no other game engine company is making any attempt to avoid FPS, or combat/military type games, why then apply a higher "moral" (within the context of your own life and beliefs) standard to Unity?

Cheers,

Galen

 

Sshhhh ... don't tell anyone. You'll blow my cover.

I totally agree that certainly no one meant to offend anyone. I guess this whole thread is about exploring the possibility that some people might simply disagree with the statement that UT made with their new marketing, which is ... loud and cleary:

"SUN SHAFTS FTW!!!" (thanks to whoever is currently fixing the smileys)

And a small little minority of others whining that sun shafts really belong into the game industry. Oh wait ... did I just drop into someone else's nightmare???

See, if there's a bunch of zombie-killing games and military games and whatnot created with Unity that's one thing - that's what people do with the tool. And if UT puts those on their Website because they want to show a broad spectrum of what users did with the tool I still find it cool - that's a statement of "ok, here's what some of our users do with our tool". But a soldier in a splash-screen or a military training as the "demo project" is a statement of "this is what our technology was designed for". Maybe not intentionally or in that intensity - but it's a clear statement in that direction nevertheless. And in my book, there's a very significant difference between creating a technology that can be used for pretty much anything (including war games and zombie shooters ... and ... sex games ;-) ) - and endorsing war games.

Maybe that's why most companies use abstract and neutral splash screens ... if they use splash screens at all. You're right: Probably most explicit stuff would offend someone (pun intended ;-) ). Of course, a porn splash screen might turn out to be particularly distracting. Muahuahua

Personally, when I first saw the Tropical Island demo, I immediately showed it to pretty much everyone I knew and that I felt could appreciate the technology - it was full of love and I enjoyed sharing that love (I'll never forget that feeling I had when I realized the flock of birds hovering above me).

At the moment, I wouldn't even recommend the Unity Website to anyone because I'm not interested in sending anyone into a demo that is basically a little piece of military training. Of course, there's probably a whole bunch of little wanna-be-soldiers now showing all their friends that cool technology to create their next super-military-FPS (what iz TPS?? a nu MMO??). And maybe the dark eye of Sauron is now looking at Unity as an option to create their next military UAV training. (hm ... I wonder if that smiley gets fixed ;-) )

/rant

 

I'm not sure if it's better to say that we "focus tested" our marketing strategy and came up with a demo that would attract a certain demographic of game developers or to admit that we just sat around and came up with a demo that organically grew into its current form ;-)

We wanted to show off certain bits of new tech and this demo fit that need. Could we have done something different and accomplished the same goals? Yes. Should we be more conscious about what our demos signify? Maybe. This is the first demo we've made that has had any sort of backlash because of its content. Imagine a thread like this about the Island Demo...

"I can't believe Unity made such a hedonistic demo to market Unity. Every time I launch Unity I see a splash screen reminding me that I can't afford a nice vacation!!! Unity is elitist and is not taking into consideration of the plight of the working class!"

I am solely responsible for the Bootcamp demo's content. As I've said a couple times already in this thread I'm not pro military, pro violence, or pro American - anyone that's met me here knows I'm basically a hippie with a scruffy beard ;-) . We simply made a demo that accomplished a lot of things we wanted to show off with Unity 3.

As far as the splash screen, I agree it's silly and find it a little odd. I think Nich took all of 10 minutes to make it and that was probably a mistake. My favorite splashes were Macromedia's from the late 90s... can't remember the designer's name, but they were quite good. I think we should come up with one that is more abstract in that vein. I'll bring it up with Nich for 3.1 ;-)

 

I guess the tricky thing is communications and what people associate with it. You know, I kind of regret making that "funny coincidence" comment because I knew it was kind of "on the edge" of what I was thinking and could be interpreted much heavier than how I meant it. To me, it really was just a "funny coincidence" that appeared to me a few seconds before I wrote it down. I didn't mean to imply more than "funny coincidence" (a coincidence is a coincidence is a coincidence) but was aware how it could come across with the given context. I appreciated it being put into perspective (you never know ... um ... what people might think).



I can totally imagine that you guys were just hangin' out and chilling and thinking "hey, yeah, let's do some FPS kind of stuff for a change" (geniuses don't need "focus testing" ... and even for non-geniuses the folks coming to the forums and asking "can i make crysis wiz unity plz" are hard to overlook ;-) ). This kind of reminds me of something I used to joke about lightly until I ran into someone who was an actual victim of what I was joking about. Sometimes stuff you say just brings something up in other people you can't be aware of. Everyone else just found it kinda funny. That person had a couple of pretty tough days. I've stopped making those kinds of jokes.

I guess sometimes you just have to bump into someone who "gets it wrong" to get it could be gotten wrong ;-)

 

There will always be someone somewhere that will be offended by ANYTHING.

If the splash screen must be redone, then might as well make it just a plain Unity logo.

 

Since you mention the island demo, Ethan... actually, I found a subliminal soldier on it

Seriously : kudos for your statements in this thread, and of course for all your amazing work. You guys rule.

 

I think I saw Army Ants in the Island Demo.

 

D'oh, you're right, there's a helicopter and fighter plane crashed on the Island... our ongoing militaristic agenda is revealed ;-)

Interesting story. We had a demo in the works for Unity 2.6 that was about a photo journalist that arrives in a Kenyan shanty town that has been destroyed by a conglomerate food distribution entity to silence the town about revealing their monopolistic practices in the region. Looking back on that I can't imagine the controversy we would have generated. And if you think I'm joking look at some of the screenshots from the 2.6 feature page: http://unity3d.com/unity/whats-new/unity-2.6

That was a tech demo about streaming, but even when I came up with the design doc I knew it might be problematic. So glad we never released it... it probably had no business being a demo for UT... even given our loose association with our sister company Serious Games.

 

Oh, I imagine we'd have broke out our "big" utensils, strapped on our "kiss the cook" aprons, and fired up the old solid fuel grill, just in your honor ... course, back in those days I'd wager Higgyb would have taken the brunt of that little party (now.. don't you wish you'd gone that route instead of falling on this sword (controversy intended) yourself hehe)

Of course... with a demo like that, you might have gotten your 15 mins of fame on CNN

I personally don't get wound up over this as some others, but it might be nice if you simply stripped our soldier friend out of the splash screen. It's a cool background, and the demo is sweet ... as a demo for the right audience (presentations to small kids isn't the place .. for me at least, to tempt parents ire - they're usually passionate enough, one way or the other, about video games in general. Naturally the kids themselves would probably either ignore it, or think it's cool.)

Cheers,

Galen

 

I knew it. I knew it. It was all set up right from the start. ;-)

Well, yeah ... especially when customers randomly would have jumped at ya during conferences giving you hugs and kisses for being so cool. That's dangerous. Imagine the press. Too much love for the general public.

Speaking of which: We need more Unitoidas (= the technically correct term for "game-dev chicks"). Next time, instead of scaring them away with a soldier do something nice'n'fluffy and colorful, kk? Even though I probably wouldn't mind having Michelle Rodriguez on these forums. So maybe hide a big fat rocket launcher as easter-egg that only chicks can pick up.



Ah ... §%$ ... now I prolly blew my cover. And people start having ideas about my real agenda

Seriously, though: You are aware that James Cameron did something somewhat along the lines of what you planned and it turned out to be the best-selling movie evarr, aren't you? Not only best-selling but also the movie that "established 3D" in movie theaters. That was an actual game changer.

The trick really is picking up the vibe of the times and boldly going where no one went before. Maybe in the end, the thing people really dislike about the military demo is that from a story perspective it's not exactly a milestone in innovation or creativity or bravery (even though it may be a nice show-off demo from a technical point of view) ... and you guys have set yourselves a pretty high standard in those areas.

Oh well, you never know until you tried it ;-)

But I guess it is in fact safer to make it some sci-fi story with blue- (or maybe green-)skinned dolphin-head folks to prevent anyone feeling that they might be considered the bad guys in the story ... or accidentally pulling the Big Mafia(tm)'s attention to you because you revealed too much of how they operate potentially ruining their business.

Oh ... and: Don't let anybody smoke (that was "the big mistake" that James Cameron made, wasn't it)?

 

KNOCK KNOCK.. HELLLOOOO??!

Are you all blind?
UT is NOT going to change the splash screen for this release.
Thus no need to discuss endlessly about it.
IT WILL NOT CHANGE.

Instead of moaning about it, endless (silly) discussions about it, why don't we start using the product instead? (and make something awesome/handy/brilliant with it)

my 2 cents..

@ moderators here: Please lock this thread ASAP.

 

Yeah - thanks for interrupting the funny spree in this thread. I actually like the last few posts untill you had to make a serious post about ... how this topic was too serious

 

I take acception to that!

Further, your claims that "someone" "somewhere" will ALWAYS be offended by ANYTHING, is subjective, and unsupported. Please better quantify your "sterotypical" groups, before applying labels of devient herd mentality!

ABSOLUTELY! Moderators, please lock saymoo out of this topic, that we may not continue to draw his time away from his Unity projects!

@motionblur - I find nothing funny with a 12 page debate on the questionable application of suggestive military overtones onto a screen that splashes up during start time in front of game developers using one supported platform of 3-6 (depending on marketing message today) of a Game Engine.

Cheers,

Galen

 

I just want to take a moment and post something positive in this thread, and say that I really enjoyed the demo. Not because I'm pro military, but because I'm a game developer and the demo did an excellent job of showing how to utilize Unity 3 and it's features(both new and old).

I know I'm not the only one who learned a lot from the demo. I've been using Unity for quite a while now, but there were a lot of interesting techniques in the demo that I can't say that I would have ever have thought of. That's what makes a good game engine demo, and I can say Unity is head and shoulders above the rest in that regard.

So kudos go out to Ethan and anyone else involved in the demo. You've made one of the best out there.

 

Why not do a short contest for people to design their own splash which could be used for 3.1? So the developers can spend their time fixing more important things like bugs rather than messing around with a splash image. Since so many seem to have a problem with it, I'm sure there will be lots of entries.

 

*So many?* LOL, not many people...just a very few vocal people.

 

Well as everyone knows, right or wrong, minorities are often the most vocal. So make an official contest and let them put their energy into something useful rather than using up the developers time with trivial issues like this. I personally would much rather have bugs fixed than any wasted time or effort on the developers part, put into fiddling with an image that offers absolutely zero benefit to the software in question.

 

The inital discussion was about the soldier demo in general ... then followed the splash screen ... and the last thing i remembered jashan demanding to get Michelle Rodriguez on these forums.
If getting Michelle Rodriguez on the forums was a serious demand then I apologize and say in all sincereity: HELL YEAH!
Otherwise I'll quote the Joker: "Why so serious?"

 

You don't want Michelle Rodriguez on these forums. She'd kick all your asses as part of her before breakfast ritual. And that's because she likes you!

 

I'll see your Michelle Rodriquez and raise you Chuck Norris riding on the back of an Albino Ninja Bear.

 

I see my message missed the mark... it's not your fault, I blame English. It's so hard to convey sarcasm, irony (or any other connotation) in a language that was obviously not meant to be used in a written form. Sadly it's the only language I know... mais je ne sais pas dans toute autre langue, ach, haben eine andere Sprache zu verwenden

Oh well...

 

Cool =D

As I like to say "perfection lies in detail", I can't find anything wrong to put emphasis on, in the first look, silly and tiny things when on average they'll increase the quality of the product. Sometimes something is only as good as the worst part of it ;D

 

I find that smiley somewhat offensive.

 

It will be fixed in Version 1.1 of it!

 

No!!! Keep it!!! I like it!!!

It ... um ... reminds me of ... now ... make a guess! ;-)

 

Dog! ... No .. a CAT!!!! No! ... A Mouse ..... ? Michelle Rodriguez..... ?
TELL ME!

 

A cat.

Of course.

 

What's so special about Michelle Rodriguez?!

i vote cats (and all other Felids out there: Tiger, Bobcat, Lynx, Lion, Cougar, Wildcat, Fishing Cat, Leopard, Jaguar, Cheetah, Ocelot, Caracal, etc etc) too

 

http://thebosh.com/archives/2007/09/michelle_rodriguez_heading_to_jail.php

What is so special? Well, not much. Absent makeup and lighting, people can look quite different; perhaps I should say, makeup and lighting can make people look so different.

How is this relevant? Use the right shaders!

 

Hmm..... Michelle Rodriguez Shader ^^

 

For the splash screen, well a dinosaur is perfect match for that background.

 

Yeah, that's the solution!!!

However, people might realize that given that the soldier was replaced with a dinosaur it's a clear statement by UT that the military is on its way to extinction. There will be rumors of a pacifist plot by UT to turn this planet to a place without wars. The FPS (and also the TPS) parts of the game industry will be forming resistance against this plot and stop buying Unity licenses. That's bad enough but just the start: The military will feel threatened and start fighting terror with terror ... the UT HQ has to be evacuated due to the risk of being nuked.

Things are starting to get a little weird when someone finds out that the dinosaur is actually not rendered but a picture of a living animal.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to our nominees for living dinosaur with limited photogenic qualities (caution: candidates may appear rendered, poorly animated, and lacking in genuine human emotion). And the nominees are:

Former Canadian Primister, Mr. Jean Chretien

Former US President, Mr. George W. Bush

Remember, nominations are still open....

 

And now the thread has totally derailed, but all is not lost. Maybe people can start a political fight out of it.