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Is this a bug?

Discussion in 'Editor & General Support' started by RvBGames, Aug 15, 2014.

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  1. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    IsThisABug.png

    Built with Unity 4.5.3. Runs fine on the development computer. Runs fine on a medium end laptop. Runs like the above on a different desktop computer with comparable specs as the development machine. Okay, so this is a new problem. Btw, the game did work previously on all computers.

    Another pressing problem I have is with a very long load time on Android, the Fire TV to be more specific.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  2. Dantus

    Dantus

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    What do you expect from us? We have almost no information. Do you have Unity Pro? Did you attach the profilier? What does the log say?
     
  3. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    It was a production build. The machine in question is at a different location (at home). It is Unity Pro. And I'd like someone from within Unity to contact me right away. Someone that is prepared to work through and solve several issues.
     
  4. Dantus

    Dantus

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    http://unity3d.com/learn/premium-support
     
    chelnok likes this.
  5. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    Therein lies the problem. I can't afford it. And what I was eluding to on this post:

    http://blogs.unity3d.com/2014/08/14/building-and-maintaining-value-for-developers/

    when I wrote:

    "Also when you think about it, it’s during early development when you encounter unknowns and/or problems when you’d like to be able to either:"

    This is a critical time for Indie developers. If the engine/tool doesn't work as expected, or we encounter some type of error/problem we are left to our own devices to find a solution. So much for the democratization of game development.

    We were writing a simple game to test the framework, one that we could leverage on future games, and even then we had to scale down our target.
     
  6. NomadKing

    NomadKing

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    What is it supposed to look like?

    What are the specs of the machines in question?
     
  7. Dantus

    Dantus

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    It sounds as if you are asking for help before you actually tried to understand what is going on. It is your job to profile your game and to understand what is going on. This has nothing to do with indie development and democratization.
     
  8. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    It should look similar to the following:

    Correct.png

    But it depends on which skybox was loaded, etc.
     
  9. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    @Dantus, good one. Out of curiosity, have you read all my posts? Or are you making your decision on limited information? Have you've been involved with both my public (these types of posts), and private messages?

    Judgments aside, would you expect your game to work on the third machine? Would you please re-read my original post before answering.
     
  10. Dantus

    Dantus

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    I have read everything in this thread and here you are just asking Unity to help you with your game. If you are asking a question like "Is this a bug?" in a public forum, it is clearly your duty to share the required information.
     
  11. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    The simple answer is. . .it is a bug.

    The real question, and not to you or anyone else in the community, but from UT "is how did this happen?"
     
  12. Dantus

    Dantus

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    Why are you posting it here in the forum? Why don't you submit a bug report? This forum is not for bug reports!
     
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  13. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    So others can see it. Someone else may run into the same problem. Many posting's share dual citizenship, both as a forum posting, and as a bug report.
     
  14. Dantus

    Dantus

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    Then the appropriate way to deal with it is clearly to first submit a bug report and then write a message here that you have submitted a bug with this and that issue. If you are smart you also write the case number here in the case that someone from Unity sees it.
    But even if you just want to post that there are bugs, it is very useless if you don't share more information. You didn't mention whether you checked the graphics drivers or anything. You also didn't state whether you tried to find out what caused the long loading times on Android and whether there were any messages in the log. For anyone who is reading this thread, those are some random things that someone encountered.
     
  15. NomadKing

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    It looks more like an issue with the graphics drivers on a specific machine, rather than something specific to Unity, but without knowing the specs of the system in question or seeing any log files it's pretty much impossible to say what's actually going on.
     
  16. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    I don't think you understood my post. But that's okay, it wasn't meant for you.

    Yes, I know how to check drivers, etc. I've been working with both DirectX (DirectDraw to DirectX) and OpenGL (desktop and mobile) for a good number of years now.
     
  17. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    Btw, the first couple of frames are fine but then it shows the above behavior. And it certainly could be a driver issue but the menu works okay, and the first few frames are okay, then the above image constantly. . .
     
  18. Dantus

    Dantus

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    Maybe you didn't make it clear enough?
     
  19. Deleted User

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    No point in arguing about it.

    OP,. If you believe it is a bug get one submitted referencing the case number as Dantus suggested in this thread.

    I'd need more information on what's going, on.. What machines / GPU's / are you using DX11 etc.etc.?
     
  20. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    @ShadowK, thank you for your concern.

    Please don't take this the wrong way. . .but do you work at Unity? Do you have access to the source to make a fix?

    The machine experiencing the problem is at a different location. If it's a driver issue then I may be able to resolve it myself. That isn't the point though. The "why" is, and I think Unity engineers would be interested in knowing too.

    For the record, it's a Windows 8.1 64-bit machine with DirectX 11 installed. Updates happen on a routine basis too. I think it may have an AMD graphics chip (can't remember) that is fairly modern. A 4.3.4 build works but the 4.5.3 build has a problem. Haven't checked other releases. I've got other things to work on but if I really need to know then I'll go back to it.
     
  21. Dantus

    Dantus

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  22. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    Because of other issues with Unity, I won't submit any further bugs.

    Is it a bug? Has anyone else seen this issue? Maybe it's unique to our setup. The problems we've been seeing, not just this one, may have something to do with our project.
     
  23. superpig

    superpig

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    You're not giving nearly enough information for this to be useful to other people. It looks like a graphics bug; you've not even said conclusively what make the graphics chips involved are - just that it's a desktop that 'may have an AMD graphics chip' but you can't remember. C'mon, if you've been working with DirectX since the DirectDraw days, surely by now you know what good and bad bug reports look like?

    For reference, I build with 4.5.3 and haven't seen any issues - so as far as I can tell, it is something specific to your project. Without further information - e.g. I have an Intel/NVIDIA hybrid graphics card so maybe it won't repro on my hardware - it's really impossible to say.
     
  24. RvBGames

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    @superpig, who said it was a bug report? I'm certain that I just stated that I wasn't going down that hole again, at least not at this time.

    And of course it is a bug. Yes, my project is involved, and I suspect others may encounter the same issue too.
     
  25. shaderop

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    So just to be clear: You don't want to submit a bug report and you won't entertain any requests for further information from any poster who is not working with UT. Right?
     
    landon912 likes this.
  26. Dantus

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    Everyone from Unity is going to tell you to submit a bug report if you find an issue. You find numerous examples here in the forum. Why do you think they are going to handle this case differently?
     
  27. superpig

    superpig

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    You said you're posting it "so others can see it" and because "someone else may run into the same problem" - i.e. you are reporting the bug to others, to that someone else. You don't have to call it a bug report for that to be what it is. So if you are genuinely looking to alert others to a possible problem, why not stop half-assing it?
     
  28. RvBGames

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    @shaderop, that's not exactly what I said. Two important points: the machine isn't with me right now so I really can't provide much more information. Secondly, I just made another build based on something I read in another posting and will try again later this evening. Basically, I did a fresh install and rebuilt the project. I made sure that all the other files were deleted (AppData\Local, AppData\Roam, etc.) before performing the install. Deleted all the Unity built files before opening the project. Hopefully that is as fresh a build that can be achieved.

    You are correct in that I won't be submitting a bug report based on past experiences. At least not at this time. As for providing additional information depends on priority. Right now getting this particular issue fixed is low, and by times I get to it. . .another release, another fix, and my issue may be resolved.


    @Dantus, it's not a specific case I'm looking to get fixed. I have several of them. This is a gentle prod to UT's support and how it affects smaller developers.
     
  29. shaderop

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    You're not in a hurry to fix it, you're not going to report it, you won't describe it in any useful way, and you don't even have the hardware to reproduce it. How is this helping anyone?

    You seem to be implying that you're representing a significant plurality of smaller developers whose bug reports are continually ignored by UT. If that is what you're trying to say then perhaps you can link to those bugs on the issue tracker, just so we (and UT) would know the relative scale of the problem based on the vote count.
     
  30. KEngelstoft

    KEngelstoft

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    Hi RvBGames, please report the bug using our bug tracker and supply a reproduction project in it. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the forums are not well suited for bug reporting.

    Thanks,
    Kasper Engelstoft (graphics programmer at Unity Technologies Copenhagen)
     
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  31. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    http://unity3d.com/people

    Kasper Daugaard (Graphics Programmer), and Kasper Amstrup Andersen (SDET Lead).

    Btw, do you know Kasper the friendly ghost?
     
  32. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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  33. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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  34. RvBGames

    RvBGames

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    My favorite posting for today. . . Updated the AMD drivers:

    AMDDriver.png


    Ran the game again:

    Skybox.png

    It looks like the skybox is being chopped up and moved in all directions as the game runs :D

    Btw, I ran the test three times today:

    1. Without PC update
    2. After PC update
    3. After AMD Driver update

    All had the same problem.
     
  35. RvBGames

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    If UT wants to help me solve my problems please have someone contact me via email. Thanks.
     
  36. ZJP

    ZJP

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    Try with the Gamma instead of Linear Space.
     
  37. christides11

    christides11

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    Just send a bug report/contact them via email.
     
  38. Dantus

    Dantus

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    I am not sure what makes you think you are different than others.
     
  39. NomadKing

    NomadKing

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    Someone should sticky this thread as an example of how not to make a support post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  40. movra

    movra

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    But it's not a support post.

    It's a complaint disguised as a support post. A complaint about promises, expectations and reality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
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  41. Dantus

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    I just had a quick look at the previous posts of @RvBGames.

    There is another bug report in the forum, unfortunately no one pointed out that the forum is not for bug reports:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/sp...d-opengl-3-0-does-not-work-on-fire-tv.242244/

    Regarding the Android issue, there is another post:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/ex...-with-unity-android.70844/page-2#post-1732138

    No need to submit a bug report, because the attached log file is shouting out why the loading time is bad. The shader compilation seems to take very long. Maybe there are lots of possibly unused shaders (e.g. in a Resource folder), maybe the unsupported warning is the cause, maybe a combination or something else.
    There is also some potential regarding the wrong texture format. All together, lots of things to try out that don't require support from Unity.

    It would be interesting to see log of the machine with the potential driver issue.
     
  42. superpig

    superpig

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    The page isn't up to date. You see the big 'Unity Technologies' banner under his name on his post, though?
     
  43. RvBGames

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    @Dantus, have you looked at the logcat of Unity projects targeted for Android? According to UT Support the shaders aren't being compiled on the platform. Converting from one texture to the other takes milliseconds and not an issue. However, I plan to change them nonetheless. Do you really know anything about this architecture and how Unity deals with it? The error messages mean:

    WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Hidden/TerrainEngine/Details/BillboardWavingDoublePass' - Pass '' shader state not supported
    *** that simply says the shader is not supported for whatever reason (why so - another thing - we really need to make this stuff more clear)

    WARNING: no native support for texture format 5, converting to 4!
    *** 5 is for TextureFormat.ARGB32 - ARGB is not supported on gles at all. Check if you forcibly create textures like that and change to rgba/truecolor

    Have you seen this thread or any other like it before commenting?
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/extremely-slow-scene-loading-with-unity-android.70844/


    My complaint, and yes, this is a complaint tied to an issue I'm seeing, is that for me to rely on forum support, and this is a prime example, is a complete shot in the dark. You people aren't helpful, no, far from it. Maybe I should reboot the device and try again. If that doesn't work, maybe I should rebuild the project without my assets. Maybe I should try to reinstall my compiler, yea that's it, the latest version of Visual Studio DLL's are causing an issue with Unity.

    I would like to find real help; someone that actually knows what's going on. And that comes from within UT.
     
  44. Dantus

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    Let's face it. You don't want help at all from this community! Otherwise you would share the relevant information. You are obviously more important and better than everyone else in the forum. Everyone seems to be stupid and unqualified until the proof otherwise.

    Forum support is certainly a shot in the dark if you don't even try to resolve the issues in your project! The cause of all that is sitting between your monitor and chair.
     
  45. RvBGames

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    @Dantus, please feel free not to reply to any of my posts.

    Point of fact though:

    "No need to submit a bug report, because the attached log file is shouting out why the loading time is bad."

    Your conclusion, said with authority mind you, is so far of the mark it's laughable.
     
  46. Dantus

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    From my point of view it is laughable that you only want to get help from a Unity engineer and try to give the impression that everyone else is unqualified, though you don't even bother to share the information. If you want to get in touch with someone from Unity, why do you even write in the forum?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
  47. RvBGames

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    First, there are some that are unqualified, and there are some that are not in a position to help. See if you can figure it out.
     
  48. Dantus

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    This is supposed to be a community where an appropriate behavior is needed.

    There are a lot of people who were and are involved in various projects that are targeting different platforms. Almost all of them had to deal with issues and almost all of them know how to solve issues on certain platforms. It is up to you whether you want to use the knowledge of this community or not. But if you want help from the community, you have to share the information. It is exactly the same if you want to get in touch with someone from Unity.
    It is your responsibility to describe what happens, maybe how it can be reproduced, what you have tried out.

    Most important, if you don't what help from the community, don't post here.
     
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  49. RvBGames

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    @Dantus, I have other issues that you may be able to help with, that is, if you want to.

    1. Do you know where I can find more information about the Terrain Settings:
    http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/terrain-OtherSettings.html

    Specifically, I'm interested in details how these settings impact rendering performance. How to get the best look. etc.


    2. Do you know how to prevent my turrets from penetrating the terrain? Or penetrating game objects with box colliders that have Is Trigger set?

    These two questions are probably more appropriate for the people on this forum.
     
  50. Dantus

    Dantus

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    There is no need to be disrespectful!
     
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