Is there too much objective criticism in Collaboration?

Something which I have noticed is that members like to pile on the constructive criticism. Take that thread where the guy called himself the CEO and was using Unity Pro for example. People said he was using a cracked version of Unity but didn't seem to have any proof of it, then they jumped on him about calling himself CEO. I will admit it sounded abnormal to call yourself CEO, but I just thought he was anxious to lead a team. As for the registered team thing, he lives in Africa, so I am not familiar with how things go there.

I think the biggest problem is that people come here with only one person in the team and start a thread. Everyone wants to suggest how they can get people but nobody wants to join them.

Just because someone got their thread derailed, doesn't mean that their project wasn't worth joining. I might have joined some if I hadn't seen the responses by others. The reason why I didn't join after that is because I realized they simply didn't have the people skills to communicate effectively with this crowd, not because of what the crowd was saying or their project being bad. That makes me a sinner too, but it still doesn't make it right.

By the way, peace.

 

I agree with this 100%. People are always dissing others and carelessly throwing around negative comments with no sense of dignity or respect. But it will come back.to bite them, and bite them hard. Some guy wass trolling on my thread a few weeks ago. Then one of my team members found out he was a scam artist. Now he's banned.

If people have a goal, no matter how far out it is, let them try to achieve it. Wait, sorry. Let me rephrase that with a quote. "Do, or do not. There is no try." --Master Yoda.

 

I think a lot of the problem hasn't got anything to do with trying - some things are just not going to happen with people's understanding of the industry or what they're doing. There's no 'try' if what you are doing is blatantly not going to happen. Though I agree some people's methods of getting that point across aren't perfect, neither are some "OP's" reactions.

 

While this thread concerns the Collaboration section, it should be Gossip.

I'll move it over.

 

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/31015-About-Collaboration

I beleive that before anyone else posts another comment on a collaboration thread, they need to read what's in that link.

 

Sorry but it's not just the people skills drowning these people.

I have to agree with the criticisms I've read at least so far on the first page of these collaborations.

People biting off huge projects (they don't even know the extent of what they entail) with little to no experience expecting the experienced/talented people to flock to them and hang on their every word as the big hancho "idea" guy.

Nobody takes most of these seriously, it's knee jerk comedy section of the forums.

Show me 1 thread where the person a) shows past projects/experience and b) has built a prototype or put in a large effort prior to posting their project, who hasn't been taken seriously....

 

That forum is a wasteland of unrealistic dreams...someone needs to put some sense in these people. They need to look around the forum a bit and see what a good collaboration post looks like. I'm tired of seeing these threads asking for all these services and not really providing any info about the project or what the team leader is bringing to the table.

 

This.

Also people seem to have the same tactic with making a game as they do playing games, "zerging" aka "outnumber the opponent". Every week I see posts similar to: "Just picked up 6 programmers and a few artists, come join us now it's definitely going somewhere!" Like how many unpaid people with limited direction could actually work cooperatively around a common goal when you're randomly adding half a dozen team members.

 

That forum is good for trolling practice, only like 3 legit threads there.

 

I dont think this is a problem. I think the problem is users posting in the collaboration threads all mostly are doing their own projects and just want to troll bash eachother so to make anyone wanting to join a team not want to and also show off their own topic and say "hey this project sucks come join this other project it is great".


I think we need a mod for this where for the collaboration forum people that post a thread can only post in that thread and they can also delete posts from that thread if they want to. If people think they are scammers or anything like that they can just PM a mod and the topic can mod the post.

 

Quite frankly the community needs to grow up. Kids will be kids, and that is that. Most of this community is ages 15- and we have to accept that and move on.

A 20+ guy hammering on a 12-16 year old needs to get a life and move out of there parents basement.

If your such a high class developer and have all sorts of cash then why bother even being on the forums, seems you either are in need of money, help, give support, or the last one, be a complete immature asshole to every topic that displeases you.

There are some threads that I can agree need some scrutiny but most are just inspired youngsters that will never follow there dream because assholes on the community shun every idea they have.

 

For the most part you need money to complete a game unless you are doing it with friends or some how you are one of the few to find people on here to join but then its hard to finish cause you dont know everyone personally and your not paying them so its going to be hard to keep them working hard or not trying to take over or all the other problems people come across. but a tip i think is good is even if you not paying and you take people you dont know in your team run it like a company thats the only way i think you could end up finishing a project without paying people if you work with people you dont know personally, also if your post goes off topic put it back on topic

 

Disagree. This isn't a playground for kids, and pulling some stats out of the air that "most of the community is ages 15-" doesn't prove anything. The truth is that this is a forum for all ages, and if someone is going to jump on here and pretend they're an adult in order to trick people into working with them, they deserve to be called on it.

 

Some good does come out of of these posts. For every ten or so people who cover their ears and stamp their feet there is one who who listens and acts upon the advice given. There's also the people who push on regardless and fail, then reassess and come to realise that it might not be a bad idea to listen to advice.

A lot of the people on the forums aren't here to 'get free stuff'. There are many other reasons to be on the forums, to meet like minded individuals, and to GIVE money, help, and support. Many (certainly not all) of the people who post the kind of criticism being discussed are also the people who actively help out when someone has a real scripting problem, or wants an answer to a question from someone who works in the industry.

That said I do think there is a bit too much of this. Once something has been said by one or two people there's no need for five others to repeat the same stuff. I try and keep my posts to people who seem like they might respond intelligently to the criticism, although occasionally I will succumb

 

I own my basement thank you very much.

Anyway, you'll notice as soon as Torsh changed his idea to something more reasonable, I encouraged and actually offered some advice and help.

 

There is to much there sould be this much:

IIIIIIIIIII

but there is at least this much:
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

As to the comment about why a successful developer would use these forums.... well it gives free support so instead of having to pay someone to fix all your problems. people hear help you for free, and if you just show up whenever you need help people will get annoyed as people have to input as much as they ask for.

(then again I'm not successful )

Oh and I'm 16 and i dont go around asking for people to make my game for me and I'm not claiming to be the idea guy(well actually i am as I"m a one man band)

 

Thank you Eclision! There really is no need for some random ADULT to be trolling a TEEN! Adults should be adults. Other than that, they're worth about as much as the scum on the bottom of my shoe. (no offense to anyone. I'm just saying some adults need to grow the heck up)
I'm no high class developer. It's my dream to be one, but I'm not right now. I'm on here for 3 reasons: I enjoy making games and since I'm using unity, I joined the forums...I can help give advice to those less experienced than me and to recruit them if that's what they seek...and for help to get me moving towards my dream (help = learning C# and other stuff. That's why I ask for scripts...because I barely know C# and when I go over the scripts and implement them and edit them, it helps me learn.)

As for the last thing you said: "inspired youngsters that will never follow there dream because assholes on the community shun every idea they have", I have an interesting story for you. (by now, you're probably thinking HOW MUCH LONGER IS THIS COMMENT!?)
I posted a thread almost the day I joined the forums. Here's a link to it, and I suggest you read the entire thread. It's ironic, for lack of a better word. http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/130408-Looking-For-Team A certain person on there (Speedah. He [turns out it's a scam artist and is a SHE] is now banned) started dissing me and my ideas for the game which I'm STILL working on. Needless to say, no matter how much crap she gave me, I stood my ground. Eventually (page 3, 12th post) someone said something that made my day, and I quote: "Have to admire the drive you present 1337_hax_ftw".

As for what that person quoted of me, I put most of those ideas off for now. My next post says I'm calling it Project Soul. I changed it. It's now The Forbidden. And then.... wait. It'd just be better if you read the thread so you can see it all and form your own opinion. But I will say this, it has a happy ending. (not so much for Speedah)

Well, I think this may be the longest post I ever made in the forums, so I'm going to wrap it up now.

 

I like Lukasaurus' attempts to encourage some of these people to work on small, easy to finish projects first before tackling these huge, multi-year projects that most people know are never going to be completed. Maybe some of these kids will learn it's a better idea to start off small and work up to something big. Some 13 year old might get his feelings hurt by learning this, but he'll probably be better off in the end.

 

So you've changed your project three times in less than a month. I'm not trying to troll you here. I'm just being honest. Doesn't that tell you that maybe the "trolls" are right, and that you should start with something simple. I'm not trying to upset you. Perhaps, being an adult, I've been a teenager, and sometime from 17-30, I've learnt some things about life that, unfortunately, you'll probably learn the hard way too.

The cycle continues. Teenagers think they know it all, until they become adults, and realize life is more difficult than they imagine it. And then they try and tell the next generation, but the next generation already knows it all...

Also, saying stuff like "scum off my shoe - no offense" doesn't mean anything. If you don't mean any offense, don't say it, and if mean what you say, don't apologize for it. I think you are immature. Take offense if you feel the need to. Or take the advice of people on here who mean well.

 

Lets not turn this into a thread of "revenge of the collaborators"

The 100% truth is that at least 9/10 threads are asking for unreasonable deals, and i dont think it is a bad thing that people put them in line, although sometimes it does go over the top and yours is one of them 1337_HAX_FTW.

You are one of the least experienced developers here, so i would suggest you watch tutorials and then post your problems if you have any and people will happily help you but then you must yourself help people that have problems if you can.

 

Saying "This idea is big, you haven't built anything before, you should try something small first" is not trolling. I don't see a heap of the older folks saying anything other than this. I'd tell my own kids the same thing.

Most of the posts that get out of hand are the ones by the young adults who know just enough to hurt themselves. I'm 21 and I have a game design qualification so now I know everything I need to know, and anyone who tells me different is making a direct attack on my manhood.

Edit: And as an example of how to handle things, I was "trolled" by Lukasaurus a few days ago. I responded to his question which I thought was a little aggressive, and I got a bit annoyed. But then I thought about it. His question was pretty reasonable... there's no strong reason that I need a logo for the Aviel game yet, its mostly on a whim. I posted his question and my answers in my original post, and asked him to clean up the thread to keep it on topic, and lo and behold it was done.

 

Lawl. You make me laugh. SterlingDee, I agree with you about Lukasaurus. Suprisingly, I do. Lukasaurus, can you name a "modern" invention that HAS NOT been changed a few times during it's creation? The car is, well, a car. But it's CONSTANTLY CHANGING. Thomas Edison tried and failed thousands of times before he created the light bulb. He CHANGED the filament. I bet even Bethesda changed a few of their ideas during the creation of all the Elder Scrolls games. TV is changing. Computers are changing. People change. And yet, you want to nag me about changing a few details about my project? Nothing stands still. If you can't improve on something, it can't be good. You can constantly modernize and redesign things, and that's what makes humanity what it is. The Pokemon series is changing. The Zelda series is changing. Even during the creation of a new expansion for a game, some ideas may change.

I stated in a couple of threads that I'm taking requests. So I have to change some stuff.

 

You're right about being the least experienced. And I have posted my problems. And I have learned from them. We're all constanstly learning, so no harm. Oh, and you know what? I also help people out with their problems! Amazing, isn't it?

 

There is a difference between what they change and what 90% of young, novice game developers change. When they change, it happens either in the concept stage or they don't change until they start on the next game in that series. I find that a lot of young, novice developers change in random parts of the development cycle, or they got bored with that idea, or they thought of some idea that is better or more elite than the one they were going to go with. Not only do they want to change, but they DEMAND that change and guess what happens, it fails.

 

Not to mention you PMed me to delete my posts in regards to that.

 

May I ask what happens to the other 10%?

 

They know what they are doing and they make it. I'll admit to being in the 90% when I first started.

 

Well I know what I'm doing. (no one can say other wise. reason: they aren't me. they don't know what i think.) And even after all of this, have I given up? No. I plan on working full steam ahead! Has anyone ever been able to move me in the past? No! So let me ask (I don't mean to be rude. If I'm coming off as that, I apologize and hope you realize so), what would you say my chances are of giving up?

 

Your current project? 100%. But I wouldn't like to see you give up altogether on creating something. If you aim smaller, you will be able to finish a project, and be proud of your accomplishment. Then go bigger for your next project.

 

I was asking OmniverseProductions. He (she? irdk) probably would've given a more reasonable answer. Seeing as how I've never given up on anything I've set my mind to. Just saying.

 

You don't have to give up, just shelve it for a while and finish some other things first.

 

THANK YOU! Now THAT was a good answer! Congratulations JohnnyA! *shakes your hand vigorously and sarcasticly* You won my respect!

 

Actualy 1337_hax_ftw you have never replied to any threads asking for help nor even posted in the scripting thread Amazing, isn't it?

Sure you may have helped someway but that is very unlikely.

I hate to say it and I think a mod will delete it but you are a burden on this community.

 

I don't have to reply to a thread to give help, now do I?

 

This thread is already way off track, believe it or not no one cares about your game no one will make it for you FULL STOP.

 

Haha then why the 300+ downloads already? Why the requests?
And I don't expect anyone to make it for me! Gawd no!

 

300+ downloads means nothing to me. I'm curious what people think of that game that has 300+ downloads

 

I don't expect you to give up, but I do expect you to listen and not rub people's opinions in their faces.

 

Omniverse, you do have a point. Problem is, it doesn't give people the right to be hating (even in the smallest manner) on me or anyone else because they want to acheive their dreams and because they never give up.

 

Sorry. Not "problem". I meant "The thing about it".

 

True, but rubbing it in their faces is only going to make it worse. It will fuel the fire or spread the flames. It's best to politely respond to or ignore rude, hateful people.

 

Omniverse, I thank you for posting that. It made me laugh, and here's why.

In a way, what you just posted is rubbing it in their faces. In an off-hand kind of way, it is. So thank you But I really do see your point. Yes, my game idea might be "too large". But look at how today's tech is advancing! Soon, my "large" game idea will seem really puny. But I agree with you. Needless to say, I will still be working on the project.

 

That was confusing.

 

Okay, post was edited, so now it means something.

spcgmua, it is a bit odd that you claim to be a pro 3d cg modeller and then refuse to show your work for fear of critique.

#1 You won't get any better without feedback
#2 If you are pro, I doubt anyone will say anything negative about your work
#3 Every serious freelance artist on here has a portfolio of work, or a website, that they are willing to show
#4 If you don't show your work, you are only inviting people to think that you aren't actually any good.

 

wrong thread

 

...
To state that the other post was a bunch of quotes with no explenation to it.

 

I am impressed. I am sure you living alone there.

What makes your think other people need your advice?
Here read this book, thats my advice for you.

 

Unprofessional...but LMFAO!!!! xD

 

I just want to add on to this and say that you cannot please everyone.

spcgmua: I just want to say that I saw your huge post mostly directed to me before you deleted it. Don't post like that about me again please. It would've gotten reported but you deleted it right when I hit the report button.

 

Masterful response by ppan.

However, the thread was about people being too trollish, and not posting any help. I simply pointed out that I did post some actual advice and offer of help to those who had some realistic goals.

1337, try and post your own jabs and not ride on the success of others.