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Is making a free Pokemon game MMO illegal?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aseem Bansal, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Aseem Bansal

    Aseem Bansal

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    Some people are thinking of making pokemon 3D MMO using Unity3D for fun but there is the legal issue of copyright infringement. I thought to contact Nintendo but their website says they don't reply to that. I found this. 2 relevant paragraphs are below


    While we are grateful for all the requests for permission to use Nintendo properties, we are not able to grant such requests. We receive thousands of requests and we do not have adequate staffing to review them all. Therefore, our general policy is to decline requests for permission for the use of Nintendo properties.

    Although we are not able to grant permission, use of Nintendo's properties without formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under the relevant laws of the particular jurisdiction involved. Thus, we encourage you to seek your own legal counsel if you have any questions about whether your particular proposed use is permitted without Nintendo's authorization. Nintendo cannot provide legal advice.​

    The part about them saying themselves that it may be legal in some cases made me think that as long as we credit them and don't sell or charge any money it may be legal.

    So would making a free Pokemon 3D MMO be illegal? We will credit Nintendo for their copyrights. Still illegal?
     
  2. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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  3. HolBol

    HolBol

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    It's Nintendo's IP. You don't use someone's IP without their permission. Simple.
     
  4. wccrawford

    wccrawford

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    There are some situations where it is legal. Parody, for instance.

    However, your situation is not. You must get their permission first, and they've already said they won't grant it.
     
  5. Aseem Bansal

    Aseem Bansal

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    :-(
    Even if the thing is free and Nintendo is given proper credit for their IP? Even if it is made from scratch and not hacking any of their ROMS?
     
  6. Aseem Bansal

    Aseem Bansal

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    Can someone explain what is the meaning of this line in the information on their website.

    use of Nintendo's properties without formal permission by Nintendo may still be allowed under the relevant laws of the particular jurisdiction involved

    Just for future reference. So I don't misunderstand such legal info next time.
     
  7. edburdo

    edburdo

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    You are still using their IP (Intellectual Property). It's illegal without their written permission.

    If you still want to proceed... contact a lawyer. Be prepared to spend some money for the lawyer.
     
  8. Aseem Bansal

    Aseem Bansal

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    I am not saying that I am going to make the game. Just trying to understand that line which caused me confusion.
     
  9. eskimojoe

    eskimojoe

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    It means, that you can be jailed or sued in court.


    Case example. ABC* LLC. vs. Nintendo of America filed in the State of West Virginia
    * Not their real company name.


    Someone on this forum (now off-line) got sued and had search warrants served on their business address for making a PokeMon MMO (made with Unity). I have not seen them since.
     
  10. halley

    halley

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    It means that intellectual property law is very complex. Nintendo wants to control their ideas and characters and titles as much as the law will allow them to do so. However, if you live in some country that does not sign on to various international treaties like the Berne Convention, then it is theoretically possible that you might be okay to do things with Mario that would make Princess Peach blush, and would make Nintendo furious.

    However, as soon as you published the work onto the Internet, they could legally send takedown notices and threaten to sue any US or Berne-friendly internet provider that made your project available to other people.

    You want their permission. It just doesn't happen.

    Edit: Just to be clear, if you're writing a school paper and you make a small quote of text to support your topic, you "give credit" to indicate to the reader how you came to learn or find the words you used. This is how you do proper research. "Giving credit" is NOT SUFFICIENT to make copies of images or to base your game on another creator's trademarks or code without permission. Some authors and artists may say "Hey, I give permission as long as you give credit," but major corporations generally do not do this, and you can never assume that this is the case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  11. InfiniteDesign

    InfiniteDesign

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    Nintendo loves to shutdown free versions of their IP so dont

    BE ORIGINAL and change the world
     
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  12. Aseem Bansal

    Aseem Bansal

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    Thanks everyone for replies and explanation. I appreciate all the help.

    Gave up the idea. Will think of something else.
     
  13. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    There is actually a way to get around this and its what all good ROM hackers do. You don't release the actual files but just a patch (that includes none of Nintendo's work) and then you are not actually modifying there work. Hence why when you play ROM hacks you get a patch and they tell you what ROM to patch. Or in Pokemmo were you need to put in a ROM to install the tile sets and sprites. You could do that AFAIK but I doubt it would be easy without a great deal of skill to unpack a ROM in unity to get sprites and tiles etc.
     
  14. RichardKain

    RichardKain

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    If you really want to make such a game, just make it without the Pokemon name or characters. Gameplay can't be copyrighted. You can make a game that plays almost identically to Pokemon if you want to. You just can't use the names, characters, or illustrations from Pokemon.
     
  15. MarkrosoftGames

    MarkrosoftGames

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    monsters in your pocket
     
  16. Sanguine Jackal

    Sanguine Jackal

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    A free-to-play 3d Pokemon MMO is one of my goals as well, However, and I cannot stress this enough:

    TALK TO A LAWYER. I have yet to see one and so I have done nothing beyond some sketches and a single model of a Gyarados. As soon as I realized a lawyer was an absolute necessity, I stopped everything I was doing.

    There have been free-to-play Pokemon MMO's issued C&D's by Nintendo that weren't receiving any funds for development or anything. All funding was straight out of their pockets. There are also some that have been published and are fine, and some that are not.

    The big thing you will want to ask about is derivative copyright laws. Basically, as per legal ruling, as long as there is a (roughly) 30% difference from the original IP and your creation, it's covered under derivative copyright law. But the big thing is, how exactly is such a percentage difference determined?? What can, and can you not, do as far as funding/selling/anything of the above? All of this must be discussed THOROUGHLY with a lawyer. If you go to said lawyer fully prepared with your own plans and info on the Pokemon franchise (best not to assume they are familiar with it all), then one or two sessions with the lawyer may be all you need. But don't bank on it.

    Seek legal advice before you move forward with ANYTHING or you may be wasting precious time and money that could be spent on a truly original creation. The forums aren't full of lawyers; we aren't the experts to be asking.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  17. TylerPerry

    TylerPerry

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    It doesn't matter. Seeking a a lawyer on this is pointless, it is illegal. And even if it wasn't you don't think Nintendo's legal team would crush you anyway?
     
  18. Setmaster

    Setmaster

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    Unless the thing gets too big or popular Nintendo won't do anything, there are lots of fan-made Pokemon and Mario games around.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
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  19. superpig

    superpig

    Drink more water! Unity Technologies

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    Yes.

    Yes.
     
  20. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Generally speaking, everything you said is valid and good advice. But the derivative part is a bit off. Derivative works are works that are based on existing work, and they are part of the copyright that covers the original work. For example Nintendo owns Pokemon. Assuming they have never made a Pokemon FPS, if you created a Pokemon FPS, even though it is your original work, using Pokemon in a new and different way than used before, it is considered derivative and covered by the copyright Nintendo holds. You simply cannon't use Pokemon legally without the permission of Nintendo (at least in terms of making a game/product).

    Derivation also comes into play when you are talking about source. For example, If you want to make a movie or game about Snow White there are not copyright issues there. However, you can't use her appearance in the Disney version. And the original version contains seven dwarfs but they are not named. The disney dwarfs (Dopey, Doc, etc..) are copyrighted by Disney, and are derivative of the original public domain material. Anyone can use that source, but not the unique variants in later adaptations.

    If you used something that was Pokemon-like, or inspired by Pokemon, that is where the amount of difference will affect a court ruling. Copyright cases are civil, they need to show that your product is banking on being confused with theirs. Basically riding their IP coattails.

    At any rate, your advice is good. Check with a lawyer if in doubt.
     
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  21. ScottyB

    ScottyB

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    All good advice in this thread so far.

    I just wanted to add that people should beware of trying to find technicalities of getting around copyright law. Even if a big company like Nintendo tried to sue you but you found a technicality to get around a law and you would technically win a case, you would be unlikely to ever get to that point. A big company like Nintendo has much bigger pockets then you and could just make a case drag on forever, bankrupting you way before you would technically "win". I'm not saying Nintendo specifically would do this but big companies are often known for using these sort of bullying tactics against smaller companies.

    Make your own work, it will be much more satisfying anyway.
     
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  22. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    It kind of blows my mind that so many people think making a game with someone else's property is legal. I thought it was sort of common sense that you can't just randomly make a new Super Mario Bros and not get sued. If it were legal to use other people's property in your games, don't you think everyone would be doing it?
     
  23. angrypenguin

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    Unfortunately this doesn't really have anything to do with it. Believe it or not, this stuff isn't about limiting your ability to profit from the work, it's about protecting theirs.

    If you made an awesome Pokemon game and released it for free do you think that might impact their ability to make sales? How about if someone made a really terrible game with turned people away from the IP? What if someone made a sick and twisted version and people who know no better think it came from Nintendo and it damages their brand as a whole? What if a competitor started outright remaking Pokemon games and releasing them for free just to undercut Nintendo at their own business?

    While I agree with some that the patent/copyright system is flawed to the point of being outright broken in some cases, things like this exist for very good reasons that aren't just about spoiling people's fun.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  24. Hikiko66

    Hikiko66

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    It's like releasing a cover of someone elses song and then saying "They're in the credits, and I didn't use any of their samples".
     
  25. Devilbox-Games

    Devilbox-Games

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    Not really, doing covers of other people's songs is perfectly legal as long as credit to the original composer is given in the correct form, which is why so many bands release so many covers on their albums. Copyright law for creating covers of songs is completely different to copyright law for creating works based on other people's IP in other media like games, TV and film.
     
  26. Hikiko66

    Hikiko66

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    Well, yeah. You don't need their permission. You do need to inform them, and pay them royalties for every copy sold. If you change the lyrics then it's not a cover anymore, and you will need permission.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  27. _Max_

    _Max_

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  28. MarkrosoftGames

    MarkrosoftGames

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    maybe do a ripoff of digimon instead.
     
  29. RichardKain

    RichardKain

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    I don't most of the posters are asserting that such behavior is legal. Here's let's use some example scenarios.

    Scenario 1: You produce a game that has a general structure and rules that are close, if not identical to, Pokemon. None of the characters, art, iconography, names, or branding are used.

    This would be legal. There is a legal precedent that game rule-sets and structures cannot be copyrighted. As long as the game wasn't using Pokemon code, there shouldn't be a problem in this case.

    Scenario 2: The game uses the Pokemon logo, and features characters from the original series.

    This would be illegal. The Pokemon branding and characters are all part of the intellectual property. They cannot be used without the property owner's express permission. A scenario like this would result in a cease-and-desist from Nintendo. Refusal to comply with the cease-and-desist would result in a legal suit.

    Scenario 3: The game in question features a character named "Sleekachew," who is a yellow rabbit with electricity-based abilities.

    A case could be made that this is legal, but a strong case could also be made that it violates copyright. A character like this would clearly be an attempt to capitalize on the character of "Pikachu," and could cause confusion among consumers. While a bit more of a grey area, I would say that a scenario like this is definitely leaning toward illegal, and I would not want to be defending it in court.

    Bottom line, an MMO that utilizes the basic rules of Pokemon would be legal. An MMO that uses any of the art, names, characters, or iconography of Pokemon would not be legal, and would probably bring down the ire of Nintendo. Using the basic rules of a game is fair play. But as soon as you start stepping on another game's branding, you're in actionable territory.

    Ultimately, it's better to make your own project that is "inspired" by another game, rather than try to make a fan-translation of an existing franchise.
     
  30. angrypenguin

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    Indeed. I'm no expert (and no lawyer), but as far as I understand game mechanics can't be copyrighted or patented (except where they are implemented using a physical mechanical device, or something to that effect... If you haven't noticed, patents are there to protect manufacturers. ;)).

    But the content can be and is automatically protected, and then on top of that any trademarks and so on can and most likely will have additional protection.

    This is why anyone can clone anyone else's video or board game as long as the content is different.
     
  31. Darkjayson

    Darkjayson

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    There all ready is a fan made pokemon game check out google as i'm not posting a link here.

    They got away with it as there game does not contain any nintendo IP instead you have to get a pokemon rom and attach that to the game for it to work.

    Why not make your own monster capture game using your own pokemon like creatures, just don't use the -mon end but hmmm i wonder how didgimon with all there -mon got away with it.
     
  32. Trystar

    Trystar

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    Would it be legal if i called it nomekop (pokemon spelled backwards) changed all the characters names made slight differences in the pokemon and gave the pokemon names backwards or rearranged words, with a completely different genre. (with the exception of RPG) open world big budget game with similar but not the same identical Nintendo copyrighted characters/pokemon/maps in the game THEN FINALLY WOULD IT BE LEGAL OR WHAT WOULD I NEED TO DO TO MAKE IT LEGAL???
     
  33. HolBol

    HolBol

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    Why would you necro this? Why? Just don't infringe on people's IPs. Simple. If you have even the slightest doubt, don't do it.
     
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  34. Ocid

    Ocid

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    Pokemon Omicron and Zeta were released and they've not been shut down yet as far as I know.
     
  35. Zaladur

    Zaladur

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    That doesn't make it legal, nor prevent the possibility of being shutdown in the future.
     
  36. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Most likely they are hosting somewhere outside the range of Nintendo's legal department.
     
  37. Ocid

    Ocid

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    Didn't say it did make it legal just pointing out they made to a full release and so far haven't been shut down.

    If all you're intending to do is release a free pokemon fan game then go for it. You can potentially make it to full release and not get shut down.

    Once its out there its out there. You can't stop the signal ;)
     
  38. Ocid

    Ocid

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  39. yoonitee

    yoonitee

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    Isn't it more fun to create your own characters?
     
  40. JovanD

    JovanD

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    Actually it can be perfectly legal if you're making a "parody" of Pokemon, so for example you can call your game "Dumb Pokemon" or something like that. But be careful since it's not fullproof, so just in case don't use the full trademark, but something like "Retardimon" or something like that would give you a better case, also it goes down to implementation too, you must make it clear that it's a parody if you're making a parody.
    And to further protect yourself you could try to make yourself look like a true parody artist, so try making parody games of some stuff that is in public domain before you move on to copyrighted stuff.
     
  41. yoonitee

    yoonitee

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  42. Zaladur

    Zaladur

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    I would seriously advise against a name like that. Far too much backlash will occur given the recent push to end the use of the r word.

    Parody is fine as long as it is truly parody.

    Moron in a Hurry won't work if you are still using any Pokemon IP.
     
  43. JovanD

    JovanD

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    Good point, i was just going for arbitrary example that doesn't have a full "Pokemon" word in it.
    Il give it another shot, Pokemoron, Pokefart, Fartemon, Dumbemon, Pukemon, meh it's hard to make it mock, but not be kinda too offensive/harsh XD
    Or maybe "Dumb Pokemon" is the best name yet since you can say you were also doing a parody of Dumb Starbucks, like a double parody.
     
  44. drewradley

    drewradley

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    Fanny Pack Minions
     
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  45. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

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    Instead of "Gotta Catch 'em All!", it's more like, "Get in mah fanny pack!"

    Asvarduil throws a Fanny Pack at Geckburn
    You've caught a Geckburn! Your Pack Rat List has been updated!
     
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  46. im

    im

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    i would think so since you dont own the rights to it
     
  47. NO1234567

    NO1234567

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    Tyler Perry stated that A developer without a backup may as well pack up!
    completely disagree with you Notch didn't have backup and he made the first versions of Minecraft a famous game around the world heck I still play it! and it is illegal to use a Nintendo IP without their permission so be careful and I hope you enjoy game development!!

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  48. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Tim Sweeney, the head of Epic Games, lost the source code to his first commercial game. For every example of someone out there who has managed to keep their source code despite lacking backup solutions there are many more of people losing their files. A number of them have posted on these forums about it too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  49. GoesTo11

    GoesTo11

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    Why are you necroposting on a 3+ year old thread just to comment on someone's signature?
     
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  50. drewradley

    drewradley

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