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Official Introducing Gigaya: Unity's upcoming sample game

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Mar 23, 2022.

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  1. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    I know I would be feeling like S*** if I was in their place right now. :(
     
  2. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    I mean, it's POSSIBLE to do: look at No Man Sky! they redeemed themselves absolutely.
    But for Unity to do that, they would have to fire the CEO, cancel the merge with IronSource, make Unity completely bug free...
    I don't know. Maybe I'm getting old, but I don't see this happening.
    But I didn't see No Man Sky redeem itself either so... maybe?
     
  3. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I don't care what happens in the boardroom but now you mentioned it I have to reply with random thoughts and whimsical fantasies:

    A woman is trusted to think agile and U turn on decisions. I love the popular myth that a woman asks for directions but a man never does.

    I kind of feel new leadership should be female if it ever happened. Would that bring Unity? I trust, somehow she would map all this out and create an influx of creatives that in turn make Unity the resource powerhouse that attracts money.

    But you know, the current CEO could accept the blind spot and work hard to address it. Then there would be no need to yearn for such a complete and modern change.
     
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  4. atomicjoe

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    I don't think any of this has anything to do with gender.
    They could as well put an AI in there as far as I am concerned. LOL

    He could, yes. But given his trajectory, it doesn't seem likely.
    He will come out with a PR speech for damage control, I have no doubt about that, and he will tell everybody that we, little indie devs, are his favorite thing and that his words were ill chosen and blah blah, but I don't see him changing course.
     
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  5. ThynkTekStudio

    ThynkTekStudio

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    from another perspective if you look at it, this too may bring good things to unity

    who knows, maybe they'll use the revenue they generate to polish and improve Unity
     
  6. AcidArrow

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    Nah, as long as Riccitiello is CEO there are no good things coming towards Unity's way.
     
  7. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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  8. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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  9. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    Don't be sad: all of this will bring much more awareness to open source alternatives and open up a new age of innovation and creativity.
    The same as when Unity kicked Unreal in the butt and democratized game engines: without Unity, an Unreal license would still cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    The evil of Riccitiello will bring good to the world of game dev.
     
  10. ThynkTekStudio

    ThynkTekStudio

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    well if it prompted such a laugh then i guess i should hold on to the hope :D
     
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  11. ronJohnJr

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    They aren't "threats". I don't base my decisions on how they're going to affect some scummy ass company, I base them on how they're going to effect me. I'm not thinking about other engines because it's going to hurt unity LOL
     
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  12. PutridEx

    PutridEx

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    Since we were discussing gigaya team layoffs, I just found out the team that worked on the new starter asset package (character controllers) was laid off. It seems anyone that provides actual benefit to users isn't welcome in unity anymore, unless you're part of the tiny team of URP/HDRP, both of which I'd assume are a minority in unity.

    Another package abandoned due to sound decisions from management.
     
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  13. Ruchir

    Ruchir

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    Just what is wrong with unity?!! :(
     
  14. Ruchir

    Ruchir

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    We haven't even seen news as to how other acquisitions have been helping unity till now,

    Did we get any tooling improvement when using the speed tree?
    No, they just added a shader graph that supports speed tree, I mean I don't understand how it took them so many years to do that.

    Nothing from Weta, just look at what epic games do when they acquire something, I'm not saying to make the stuff free if you can't afford that but at least do more than doing nothing for a year after acquiring them.
     
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  15. ronJohnJr

    ronJohnJr

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    Discard devs, acquire ad money, mmmm sweet sweet capitalism
     
  16. TheBlindEye

    TheBlindEye

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    I don't think anyone cares about how Gigaya is at this stage(performance-wise and code-wise), they just want to see some starting point. I get that the code isn't properly written, but we can only get the best parts out of this project and let the bad ones out of view.

    Publish it at least on Github, please.
     
  17. StellarVeil

    StellarVeil

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    Once again the UT decision-making gurus flex their intellectual superiority to the world by focusing more on anything but what made the engine popular or their core users.
    I mean having one notorious name in leadership was not enough, now also gotta merge with a notorious company to gain even worse reputation.

    So what are we left with now? a bunch of acquisitions that pretty much no one asked for and that probably only a small fraction of the core userbase will use/benefit from as they remain behind paywalls.

    I was looking forward to the release of Gigaya to see if I could learn something from it and see how certain aspects of development can be improved or approached differently while also giving us hope that the dev team will finally have a closer voice telling them what works and what needs change/improvement.

    Now I'm less & less optimistic about Unity's future for solo devs and small teams with every new decision they make lately.
     
  18. impheris

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    It was pretty obvious that Gigaya was canceled the same day of the layoffs, i do not understand why you guys are upset again here.
    Now, maybe unity's future is being the game engine for mobile games and that's it. it wouldn't surprise me at all. Unreal is kikcking ass right now and not precisely for its graphics, unreal is a trend now, you can see how youtube is full of mediocre 20 seg demos showing some rocks and trees or a random guy running in a city but is very popular because it says: official unreal 5 demo, so, if unreal is going to rule the pc/console realm, then, the only market free is mobile and unity has a pretty good portfolio there (yes i know, this is making real that cliche Unreal lover comment: for pc use unreal for mobiles use unity) ...You know... GIGAYA, a steam game being cancelled and then this "merge" with ironsource + recent interviews... maybe this is what they want, to be the game engine just for mobiles.

    I also do not understand why people are angry about Ironsource and saying "ironsource is malware" can someone explain it to me please?

    Sad, i was also defending Unity in the past, now we need to enter to their community with our faces down XD lol
     
  19. DJ_Design

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    It's the trajectory unity has taken with every announcement that has people upset. It has absolutely nothing to do with Gigaya. In other circumstances, people would just move on it's not a revolutionary game.


    Did you answer your own question? It's another step in the wrong direction bloating unity as an adware engine.
    Why that would make developers upset.. use your imagination. :)

    Anyway, nothing good will come of it I'll leave this thread to eat itself.
     
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  20. altepTest

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    just read the entire thread from beginning, is all explained.
     
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  21. impheris

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    little off-topic here but: the painless tool is the best tool, because when you say "best something" you are comparing it comparing it with other tools, so, the painless too (in a list of a tools) is the best tool. Now, being the perfect tool is totally different thing :)
     
  22. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    I can confirm. I worked on the virtual touch inputs in Starter Assets so they could be controlled on mobile; just so there was a starting point for basic mobile input. I hope that another team will adopt them.
     
  23. impheris

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    The only true thing about your post is this... but the problem is not everybody wants to learn again another f language, but it seems that now we have to -.-
    OMG...
     
  24. ronJohnJr

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    The character controller is broken in 2022 plz halp
     
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  25. impheris

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    That is veeeery old, here is an better explanation to that and what he is talking about with some other references.



    This is his business for good or bad, i do not know if it was EA the company that had that problem with gambling in games and do not forget John Riccitiello (actual CEO of Unity) did at least the 80% of gamers of the world to love EA and their games, so is not bad at all, so at least you can expect the same future for unity, also, those are business decisions, we are indies, 3d artist, programmers and stuffs we do not know anything about business, nothing... maybe if you saw that video or audio in 2011 you though "this is very bad i hate EA" but now, look at the industry, almost every gamer loves EA. THIS is for the future.
    Also (About ironsource) there is nothing bad about thinking of making money with your games (of course in good ways)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
  26. atomicjoe

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    Oh wow, that's not the vibes I get on places like Youtube or Twitch!
    It's quite the opposite actually!

    Dude! No! This is the guy who put loot boxes and micro transactions everywhere in EA games and he made EA the most HATED company in the world until they fired him!
    No joke!
     
  27. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    Wasnt EA the worst company in USA twice in a row when he was CEO ?

    And no, gamers do not love EA, the fact that stupid whales drop tons of cash in their addiction with gambling doesnt make EA good company.

    How deluded You must be is beyond me.
     
  28. landon912

    landon912

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    Is this a joke?

    ----

    This may be beating a dead horse, but these examples project are very important. I decided to use Unity back when the industry was less consolidated partly due to their Lerpz demo. If Unity can't manage to release a game themselves - that doesn't inspire confidence going forward.



    If anyone has the project files for Lerpz, I'll buy you a pizza or drink if you share!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  29. inSight01

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    AKA. We no longer care about making game development more accessible to game developers for which Unity was originally created for. We only care about firms that give us money.
     
  30. ShilohGames

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    Cancelling Gigaya is proof for why Unity needed to do Gigaya in the first place. It is easy to quickly build prototypes and small games in Unity. It is hard to build modern PC/console games in Unity. Every game developer who has built PC games in Unity all the way to the Steam store knows what I am talking about. Far too much game developer time gets spent searching for work arounds once a PC/console Unity game gets to a certain size.

    The entire reason for Gigaya was to build a full modern PC/console game in Unity, so Unity would be forced to realize and fix some of the headaches that exist. Unity seems to have pulled another Unity here. Unity built a small demo for Gigaya and then gave up as soon as they ran into some of the headaches PC/console game developers constantly see with Unity. Giving up at this exact point is the most predictable Unity response.

    There are tons of obvious show stopping bugs and limitations that disproportionately affect PC/console game developers. For example, back in 2016, I documented a bug in the scene file system that prevented 64 bit builds from accessing more than 4GB of assets. It was a 32 bit limitation in 64 bit builds. But since this bug did not affect small mobile games, it took a few years for Unity to fix the bug. I worked around the bug by breaking my game systems into my multiple scenes and then using multi scene loading. I also tried using AssetBundles as a possible workaround, but AssetBundles had its own group of show stopping bugs at the time. Here is a thread about the 4GB limit per scene bug:
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/bug-4gb-limit-to-textures-in-standalone-build.441116/

    The 4GB asset limit per scene was fixed in Unity 2020.1. I only bring that bug up here because it is an excellent example of why game developers targeting PC/console would like Unity to build a complete modern PC/console game using Unity.

    I would love to see Unity attempt to finish Gigaya. And not just a small playable demo. Build a complete modern PC/console game. Run into the headaches as the team scales up the game. Fix those headaches. Improve the engine, editor, and tools.
     
  31. neoshaman

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    The problem is that they are operating at a loss, they can't hear you in a tech bubble deflation and daddy's money (investor) running dry.

    If unity was greedy because they were swimming in cash, we would be right, but they don't.

    Also Ricitello is a bad manager:
    - he spread unity's resources too thin trying to catch the next wind, but couldn't make any of them good product
    - try imitating the high of mobile by chasing every nascent trend, misunderstanding that's because unity was a good product first that it could catch the boat when the tide was high.
    - make every decision for money instead of connecting with the market, if you want to be a greedy asshole, at least emulate a smart greedy asshole like Steve Jobs, he understood that you need a good product first.
    - I'm not going to say he is wrong about micro transaction, recurrent revenue stream for cheap effort is great in a gighly competitive market just to barely survive, HOWEVER he lack vision and don't understand the market, therefore choose the most insane way to talk about it. Epic is saying similar thing, but HEY THEY MAKE GAME, therefore understand how to present the value proposition, John has been missing the point since 10 years!

    upload_2022-7-17_1-46-9.png

    His talent is killing the gold laying goose.

    Epic strategy is so smart: "we have an engine that wasn't designed for small machine profile, how are we gonna win the indie and face competition? are we going to imitate competition or actually think about what's the fundamental issue and position ourself from our strength? -> We are already seen as high end engine, we can't lower the ceiling without cheapening ourselves, so we will create a golden escalator to High end -> nanite, quixel, artstation, metahuman, lumen, livelink, do AAA for cheap and giggles!", and they laugh because they know by the time they grow the new user base, low end machine of the future would be the high end of now, so they don't have to over invest into keepin up with now! Having a vision for games and its market that is, removing pain points!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  32. sacb0y

    sacb0y

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    If youtube and starwars is anything to go by bad CEOs come in all forms.

    Omg i did not know about that, Jesus.
     
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  33. Rowlan

    Rowlan

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    I understand the decision very good.

    As a publisher it's really hard to keep up with the changes in the Unity and Render Pipeline versions. I mean Unity themselves can't keep up with their own Asset Store Originals. They've been broken for years.

    Gigaya would have been a preprogrammed maintenance nightmare which is bad press.

    Screenshot as of just now in July 2022:

    ao.jpg

    And now imagine that with an actual game :rolleyes:
     
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  34. sacb0y

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    The fact touch input hasn't worked on windows with the new input system apparently since it's inception is a very telling thing now.

    I thought that was a bizarre exclusion before.

    I get mobile makes the money but isn't that putting all your eggs in one basket?

    I mean just look at devices like the SteamDeck and switch, there will always be a place for non-high end games on a PC type marketplace.
     
  35. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    In Starter Assets, the virtual touch input are optional. You can easily turn them on/off depending on what platform you are building to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
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  36. Rastapastor

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    I mean does it make this situation any better? Isnt it showing that Unity is bad for maintaining projects ?
     
  37. neoshaman

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    They probably cancelled Gigaya because Ironsource have supersonic, they were redundant, but the game ambition is still to be seen.
     
  38. sacb0y

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    Oh, I'm aware I'm talking about how touch input is largely not responsive in the new input system on either windows 10 or 11, a UI might work perfectly fine on android (and apparently on a steam deck for some reason), but on windows taps don't work right and scrolling doesn't work at all.

    Multiple people have reported the issue.

    It's kinda made me regret switching after Doozy fairly quickly added support for the old input system when 4 came out DX

    EDIT:

    Also another thing I thought of, canceling Gigaya wasn't exactly the only option they could have taken if it was a long time coming.

    They could have opened donations or F***ing made a kickstarter. Like sure people would scoff at unity for doing it, but at least everyone wouldn't be this pissed off. But if financial viability was the problem fine, there's a million options now days. And likely enough studios who considered this valuable enough to support it.

    If mobile is the corporate focus fine, but maybe give us some options for the things people have been demanding for years. I imagine lots of developers would gladly give money to the URP team so the S*** reaches feature parity for specific features get added sooner.

    It's a free engine that doesn't make enough money with it's subscription. Open things up more. Cause right now there's dev funds for various engines I'm looking at, options to pay like $500 and $1000 a month to help issues get addressed. And then I think, why doesn't Unity just let me give it money to do things I care about?

    That would be a better financial investment (provided they do what they say) than to feel forced to change my business model and and game engine in about 3 years.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  39. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    Are you suggesting a publicly traded company worth multiple $billions and paying $1.6 billion for Weta and over $4 billion for Iron Source should run a Kickstarter?

    :p
     
  40. atomicjoe

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    But the poor thing can't make a profit! Have some compasion! :D
     
  41. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Well they might not be able to make the kickstarter work then. Funny crowd that lot, they are harsh and won't invest unless there's solid evidence something will get finished these days.
     
  42. tatsuuuuuuu

    tatsuuuuuuu

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    I pay 5K a year.

    I dunno what you're on about. I actually wager a lot of people here pay a subscription.
     
  43. sacb0y

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    If it means S*** I care about doesn't get nuked sure. I'll take a billion dollar company doing a kickstarter to fund things it doesn't care about rather than the company continue to only fund things I don't care about.

    If unity won't care about games everyone else will, we depend on it ffs! They want less risk fine, all they gotta do is ask.

    No one here would be half as angry if Gigaya suddenly started a Kickstarter or a IndieGoGo for the last stretch. They call Unity S*** but that wouldn't compare to this scenario. At least unity would have the sense to give an option.

    And if that wasn't good enough that would just prove games for unity simply isn't big enough. But if the dev funds for other projects says anything that's very likely not true.

    They have this whole apparatus for subscriptions and game monetization but can't pull out a funding solution for things the people on this forum care about.

    EDIT: I'd gladly pay $500 just to get Unity to put one person on the damn windows touch issue for a day. Cause I'm sure thats all the time it would take to diagnose and at least begin to solve the problem lol.

    I'm sure any studio that had that 4GB scene issue would have paid to get it fixed rather than spend precious time paying one of their devs or their own time to work around it.

    EDIT2: Like being real I have no goddamned interest in unity's business, none. I care about how unity's business affects my business. I don't give a damn what makes them money.

    So if they don't care about games I can accept that but I have needs. A lot of people have needs. There needs to be options rather than playing roulette with what gets added, what gets fixed, and when and why.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
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  44. atomicjoe

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    Careful there: don't give them ideas.
    If they realized they could do that, they would do it for everything and still screw us over it. Have no doubt about it.
     
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  45. sacb0y

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    Is that legitimately worse than right now?

    What you think they'll change their mind on potential? They have to see it, it has to be tangible. The only thing tangible they have now is people get angry at unity when they don't do game related stuff. But that won't affect their bottom line any time soon.

    It would suck but it wouldn't be near as bad as the current trajectory. Cause at the very least even if YOU refuse to give them money, some companies, some studios, some indie devs will. But if Unity actually does things people want as a result, maybe even you might see it as a fine investment. Even you might see a tangible result.

    Cause far as I can tell the next 3 years will be like the last 3 years. And literally anything is better than that. Something has to change.
     
  46. sacb0y

    sacb0y

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    UNITY! YOU ARE WITNESSING THE STAGES OF GRIEF! HELP ME!
     
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  47. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    Yes: they would just do exactly the same but ask for more money LOL
    It wouldn't change anything.
    I understand your mindset but you have to understand theirs:
    They're not trying to do the best for us or the company, they are trying to take the best economic benefit in the shortest term!
    These kind of people don't care for the future of a company. If they sink the company, they hop to another one.
    I read an awesome book about that a long time ago:

    The Undercover Economist by Tim Harford

    100% worth your time
     
  48. sacb0y

    sacb0y

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    I don't see any reason to think it goes that far, if money is there they will do it. These companies are stupid, out of touch and blind, not suicidal.

    Even if they wanna sell they still need a company worth selling.
     
  49. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    The key concept here is that these companies become hostages to a social group of people that jump from one to the other like swingers.
    That's why this book is so special, you would like it.
     
  50. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    You would be surprise how far corporate greed can go, does disney qualify? They seem bigger than unity in every metrics:
     
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