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Official Introducing Gigaya: Unity's upcoming sample game

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Mar 23, 2022.

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  1. sacb0y

    sacb0y

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    I genuinely believe the vast majority of unity had no clue they were going to do layoffs or that Gigaya would end. Cause there was zero preparation or indication for this move. Two weeks later and we get a response in a forum post. Not an article, nothing from news media, nothing which is very weird.

    I think some bean counter made a call, and no one asked any questions or did any assessment other than how things would look on a quarterly for investors. Cause for everyone else it's a complete blind side, which IMO is not how a company can be run. Decisions should be made by people who know the product, and plans made for the aftermath in the worst case scenario.

    Who makes a big GDC showing for a product they plan to cancel just a month later? Like that's an OBVIOUS issue.

    This PR disaster wasn't even a factor in the eyes of anyone who decided this cause obviously no response was prepared. Just bean counters, doing numbers.

    Bean counting is a corporate sin. Companies going public never seems to do anything good.
     
  2. warthos3399

    warthos3399

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    I agree, but times change, engines and their objectives change. Its up to us to change with them, or make difficult choices. Unfortunately, we dont have much control over engines decisions, specially when they refuse to communicate with their user base. Do not think that it wont happen soon, as we do not have control over that, and i feel its coming sooner than expected.

    Think about what could happen in the next, say, 6 months, it could be drastic. Terms of service, requirements, etc. could change enough to shut down projects. These are things you need to keep in mind. We cant predict the future, but we can prepare for them. The choice is yours...
     
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  3. DJ_Design

    DJ_Design

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    It comes off as blatant ignorance and it's been a careless nosedive for far too long to call it that.
    At this point call me crazy, someone's getting a free lunch from Epic.

    Like I would love to hear unity tell me otherwise,
    maybe one of the lower-level employees with some guilt will try to offer an explanation for all the axed, half-baked butchered plot twists unity has left out to rot with no explanation but I'm not counting on it.

    Someone at Epic is paying for unity's downfall, why not ??
    That's my conspiracy because you can't be doing this unknowingly at least not for long.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
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  4. Billy4184

    Billy4184

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    Very disappointed to hear about this, but I'm not surprised. Unity has lost the game engine race to Unreal after years of faffing about and being half in and half out of the indie space. It's clear that there are powerful elements in Unity who are trying to extricate it from the puny confines of game development to pursue some grand utopian dream for a technological future where people are brought together in love, peace and harmony through the copious use of ad networks and AI.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Mark Zuckerberg acquired it, in fact. Sometimes it seems like he's the one writing the PR.

    Enjoy the beauty of the once-elegant game engine while it lasts, people, because soon it will be retired as being no longer aligned with Unity's vastly expanded scope and focus, which is no longer the mere task of helping indies ship games, but rather to attend to its greater calling, to usher in a new golden era of uber-intra-connectivity that pushes the boundaries of the human experience and forges new pathways to a greater human capacity for consuming ads.
     
  5. Sebioff

    Sebioff

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    It is well known that one of the biggest weaknesses of the Unity engine is getting a project to the finish line in a clean and optimized way. The problems you're naming with finishing Gigaya are the same problems we're encountering in real productions too.
    My hope for Gigaya was that Unity would learn and improve the most from this part of production.

    It's very unfortunate to see the project cancelled because the very problems that many of us are struggling with and want to see improved were too much of a hassle to deal with.
     
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  6. Metron

    Metron

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    I think he talked about hypothetical scenarios...
     
  7. Metron

    Metron

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    This actually made me smile... thanks AcidArrow :)

    IMHO, there is no "best" engine... there's only the most painless solution to solve my problem...
     
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  8. tatoforever

    tatoforever

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    It's clear that what Unity wants is to expand their ads network, because that's what makes big money for them, not engine license, neither the asset store. So that's their top priority, not even the engine itself. If things keeps this way, I can surely predict Unity will close engine operations and remain an ads network API provider only.
    Just wait when the CEO leaves the boat before it start sinking...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
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  9. Dave-Me

    Dave-Me

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    Unity has years of released code that doesn't run anymore without installing exactly specific versions of everything. (Ever setup the environment to get the 2018 FPS Sample running?)
    Why not just release Gigaya as it is and walk away like every other old bleeding-edge demo?
     
  10. Ruchir

    Ruchir

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    Could you reference some of the posts?
    All the twitch streams that were related to the project are also not available anymore. I really would like get more insights into how you guys made the character controller :)
     
  11. Timboc

    Timboc

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    The repercussions of this decision will echo for many many years.
    This far into the process it's not just about what would have been gained, it's also about what was lost.

    Such catastrophically bad cost to benefit analysis.

    If the amount of consumer trust this cost could be bought, most large companies would pay far more. Unity would. Unable to see what it cost and the self sabotage at play here is painful.

    Condolences to everyone on the team - I suspect you all understand the potential this had for Unity's image problems and viscerally feel how much ammunition this has given detractors.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
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  12. altepTest

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    So lets say I'm evil CEO of a company. No relation here.

    What about keeping the team that makes the demo game on my payrolls till they finish the demo? that is 90% done BTW, and THEN fire them all? Many will be very sad about other people loosing their jobs BUT at least I've sugar-pilled them with an working project.

    Then, I would avoid saying in an interview that my customers, those that use my products, are stupid.

    I will also try to avoid getting in a war with both apple and google on the ads territory. Because last time I've checked both apple and google control the platforms where I need to push the ads. I don't know, is a slippery slope crazy minefield I'm getting in.

    What if apple and google decides that apps using my company tech have some issue and start disabling the apps from their platform? I may not care as CEO for some time as third party developers will get hit, they are not MY apps that get disabled, BUT after some while, those devs will go bankrupt or change the tech their using for their apps.
     
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  13. homerender

    homerender

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    Lol. Hope Epic Games will buy Unity soon and everything will go back to normal :D
     
  14. seoyeon222222

    seoyeon222222

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    I very much sympathize with the opinions of @hippocoder and many others.

    What has already happened is inevitable.
    The worst thing is that everything about Gigaya is abandoned as it is.
    It doesn't matter if it's incomplete and post-support is impossible.
    If Unity thinks of its users even a little bit,
    Provide even an incomplete project.

    Is this consideration for users costly?
    What makes it difficult for Unity to make these decisions?

    If Unity really cares about users, I hope unity can provide what users want.
    It is not even an issue that costs a lot.

    I hope Unity makes a decision for the users
     
  15. drcrck

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    I hope they at least understood how bad their recent direction with Unity is, when even the devs themselves couldn't make a game using their own engine.
     
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  16. DragonCoder

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    That's not reaaally the conclusion. Every month multiple steam games are released with Unity after all and way more on itch.io. If releasing were such a hassle, Unity's push on ads that only can appear in released games, wouldn't make sense, lol.
    However bringing a game past the last mile does take much effort, yeah. They didn't see it worth it, very sadly...
    However is it more effort than with Unreal and co. when the gameplay would be the same? Dunno..
     
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  17. dark_vulcan

    dark_vulcan

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    This is not so expected from Unity. Devs were looking forward to this project, could have learnt lot of things.

    Can you please publish the content in the current state only? That will surely help lot of devs like me.
     
  18. Deleted User

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    They definitely could have shipped it if the team wasn't laid off... So this assumption isn't correct!!
     
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  19. StupydHors

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    I am just... disappointed.
    You know. For the past 5 years, I have defended and championed Unity among my friends and colleagues.
    But... there is just no good PR to go around at this point. There is almost nothing I can tell them now to look forward to.
    Because even if there are projects for the future (.NET .csproj usage for example) I got burned with my expectations waaaaay too many times (Input System, Dots, SRP, UI Kit, and the list goes on).
    I think I should practice what I preach... "never pre-order games" *sigh* I guess I should have never expected anything out of Unity and I could not get this disappointed.
     
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  20. Rastapastor

    Rastapastor

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    You mean the famous asset flips?

    Also You must understand, using Your own tool to create Your own games makes You understand the shortcomings of Your own techonlogy. I have experienced that in my field in the business solutions software and 1000% its the same in game dev.
     
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  21. drcrck

    drcrck

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    Yeah sure... they released a 1 min gameplay video = definitely could have shipped the game.. It's definitely not cancelled because they understood that it would take a year or two to release a small playable game with the current state of their engine. It's just their bad and evil management that randomly decided to cancel it. The engine is perfectly fine.
     
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  22. AlbyDj90

    AlbyDj90

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    Another reason for jumping on Godot train...is a long term bet and it isn't still the way to go for professional, but there are love and passion in it.
     
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  23. useraccount1

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    There is a message from the company that says the Gigaya only needed general cleanup and optimization. Also, the team wanted to publish this project by the end of this year.

    The unity claims they need to move resources elsewhere, but every few months, the management shoves hundreds of millions of dollars for pointless buyouts. They could have released several AAA games for the price of some of these buyouts, and it could bring more to the users than these new services.
     
  24. Matthi

    Matthi

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    I considered writing my own view on the situation, just to get it off my mind, but @timmehhhhhhh s post is everything I wanted to say. So I'll just boost that, and especially highlight the question at the end. I think that question is the core of it, the one that really needs answering.
     
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  25. altepTest

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    I'm quite positive that the Dev team behind gigaya got the infamous "unity is busy" loading bar and they notified the hire-ups about it. Since from my experience once you get this message your project is busted and you need to remake it from scratch the management decided that is not a good investment to rebuild the project. Because you have big chances to have the project busted again along the line. So what is the point.

    Then fire the team, throw the project out. They can't release it as it is because it doesn't work. Is busted.

    Did they understood finally the issue internally? did the big shots at the top, the management and the editor and engine programmers figured out that there is an issue and they will fix it? That is the big question

    this issue here I'm talking about

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/editor-progress-bar-stalls-request-for-bug-reports.1137817/
     
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  26. pragmascript

    pragmascript

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    This was the very purpose of the project: to learn about the pain points when going to the finish line.

    I'm not suprised however that Unity doesn't understand the ninety-ninety rule.

    Unity has never polished any system of their engine to anything near 100%, all they do is implement something to 80% quality or less and then abandon the system.

    So why should we be suprised that the same thing happens with Gigaya.

    Unity is pivoting from a game engine company to a mobile advertising company, while leaving their customers behind.

    I don't see a way forward for Unity with the current management. All their decisions in the last years have been horrible.
     
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  27. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Know you are exaggerating drastically etc. but just a tip in case you didn't think of that:
    In the absolute worst scenario that the project is really busted somehow and nothing helps, you can always export all assets, create a new project and import them.
    You'll have to redo the player settings and reimport the Unity packages which are not 3rd party, but that should not take too long.
    I had to do that one single time because I messed up with git merges and the project didn't want to find certain extension methods from a present Unity package anymore for some reason.
     
  28. ThynkTekStudio

    ThynkTekStudio

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    my biggest fear after this is that they cancel or stop working on projects Like SRP's & DOTS
     
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  29. Neto_Kokku

    Neto_Kokku

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    After the recent events I get the impression internal efforts at Unity are being evaluated by asking if they will ultimately lead to increased ad revenue. Seems Gigaya, which focused on Steam and consoles instead of mobile, didn't pass the test.
     
  30. ch715t0

    ch715t0

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    :(
     
  31. Adam_M

    Adam_M

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    Does DOTS work in the current LTS yet? I feel like they gave up on it a couple of years ago. Unreal has already gotten their mass entity ECS into UE5, so Unity lost that advantage as well. :(
     
  32. altepTest

    altepTest

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    no I did not exaggerate. out of the blue without me doing anything one day after opening the project it would consistently hang out for up to 10 minutes at the time. Sometime it will work for 30 minutes then just by clicking on a menu item or on an object inside the scene, loading bar for 10 minutes.

    no clue and no solution. recreated the project as it was, it worked for some time then again same issue.

    now if this happened for this project with various people collaborating imagine the trouble.

    Edit just a question for the users posting here.

    I'm reading this stuff about unity being good for mobile. You know why I doubt it? fortnite can work on mobile and that is made in unreal.
     
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  33. Cicaeda

    Cicaeda

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    I don't understand how this company keeps making back-to-back terrible decisions, but I'm not even surprised anymore. Dogfooding your product is one of the most basic principles of software design. This engine will never suss out and solve the deeper issues that are only discovered when developing and shipping full games to completion. I've just come to accept that.
     
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  34. aer0ace

    aer0ace

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    I can't wait to read a Jason Schreier piece on this whole thing.
     
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  35. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Actually, when you realise Unity is built and designed for mobile and mobile monetisation, you realise the kind of games Unity is good at building is exactly that.

    Not console, not desktop. It can do desktop and console, but you will have to provide most of the missing tooling and work required. This is consistently proven by people like Garry, or any midrange indie studio that cared to mention why they moved to Unreal, or how much they struggled in their post-mortems. They even were kind enough to speak about Unity's limitations live on stage at every single year of Unite.

    The clear messaging is: Unity is about mobile. It always has been, but you should not really expect the same resources for desktop or console. This is backed up by how tiny HDRP team is vs anything else at Unity.

    So if you are into mobile and mobile monetisation, congratulations, you are using the best engine for that. As is demonstrated time and time again.

    The only F***ing idiot is the person making games for art's sake, or console / desktop games. I wish it only sounded dramatic and wasn't 100% proven and true.

    My only actions here are to shine a light, to look at what Unity is really saying, and look at what they have ACTUALLY done. And all that says is, year after year (don't forget it took 4 years for HDRP to get a basic grass shader) - that Unity's focus really is mobile and mobile monetisation, and yes, it very much does affect what else at Unity gets funding.

    As you all found out recently. Again.
     
  36. TalkieTalkie

    TalkieTalkie

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    Haha, I abandoned Unity for Unreal a long time ago, so only just learned about Gigaya after Unity merged with that adware company.

    Anyway, that "gameplay" video looks so faked, like those CGI "gameplay" videos from E3. Only thing that looks like gameplay is the character moving and jumping (and failing double jump in one scene before fade-out). Nothing shown looked fun or unique, just another generic platformer with a MC that looked like a Unicorn farted on him.

    Releasing this project to the masses would definitely be a disaster, when people realize it's 80% cinematic and 20% gameplay. They'll bury this fast and move on.

    If only there was a company using billions of dollars from their one game to improve their game engine, dominate hearts/minds of youngsters and buy out other companies, trying to take on Steam.. nah, that would be just unreal.
     
  37. Adam_M

    Adam_M

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    Oh, you can totally see where they're going and why they're making these choices if you read the risk factors in the annual report. Here are some that give some insight into why the company is making the decisions it makes, and why the CEO is safe to say controversial things.
    To summarize:
    • Operate Solutions (multiplayer, analytics, advertising, IAP, monetization, etc.) is the money maker, pulling in nearly twice as much money as Create Solutions (the Unity editor) and strategic partnerships combined.
    • Unity has a history of being unprofitable and needs to get to profitability ASAP. Even if it means violating the core value of putting the user first.
    • Anti-takeover provisions make it difficult to replace or remove the CEO.
    Also, I have to ask: why is this a risk!? I've never seen another publicly traded software company state out loud "We might launder money or bribe government officials."

     
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  38. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Are you seriously reading that out of what you quoted below?...
    You gotta read way more buisness speech to interpret such things right, I fear.
     
  39. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yet to see a balanced view from you. So far every single post implies you actually work at one of Unity's companies.
     
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  40. Deleted User

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    DOTS is supported on the latest LTS and it's in active development, check out the roadmap
     
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  41. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Not working for Unity but a way larger company in a different industry...
    Yet I trust to have an sense for when people drag things out of proportions and are twisting other's words in an unfair way. It's the norm on social media sadly :/

    Wil stop/slow down replying in those threads here however. Feels a lot like pointless fights with windmills. People shall believe what they wish albeit I wish they wouldn't force their ideas on others so much...
     
  42. gusy126

    gusy126

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    Tldr: we realized our tools are too S***ty to do work on gigaya past the early stages of game development. Because of that, we decided to kill the team to not expose our incompetence. We will be blaming this on costs because of the millions it would take to keep this team hired for a few years, however the next day we will be spending 4.4 billion on a malware company because we are going to fully embrace becoming an ad company.
     
  43. bnmguy

    bnmguy

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    An update from Unity was good, in that they didnt just ignore us as per usual. But it was bad in that it came off as "Unity got what we wanted out of it, so screw everyone else, including our customers, and the promises we made".

    Not a good look.

    Unity really, really need to fire their CEO! He has a lonnnnnng history of making acquisitions that do NOTHING for the company he works for, other than waste money. Every public company where he has been CEO has seen steady, useless, and over-priced acquisitions followed by plummeting stock prices. EVERY ONE!

    Not to mention his alleged (per court docs) gifts to female friends worth MILLIONS of dollars. This guy has been, and is, the ruination of Unity. He did the same thing at his last company. Why was he ever hired?

    He also has a pending sexual harassment lawsuit against him. WHY IS HE STILL HERE? If the Board is dumb enough not to fire him, then I guess they deserve what is coming.

    Truly a sad, sickening day for Unity. Good luck selling Ads in all those games that won't be made.
     
  44. altepTest

    altepTest

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    I have no idea how all these stocks corporate mergers work but did they actually paid billions out of pocket or is just some financial math based on how the price of shares from unity and that other company adds up?

    meaning I'm valued at 2 billions you are valued at 2 billions, now together we are valued at 4 billions. No money changed hands, now they are one single company.

    Meanwhile each company have no money in the bank and decided to start fire people left and right.

    But this is not something I'm familiar with so who knows
     
  45. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    That made me laugh :D , but you know what would be unreal too? to invest lots of time and effort on your own to expand a game engine to accommodate massive multiplayer and battle royal modes only for the company that made the engine to "reuse" your code to make a clone of your game! THAT would be UNREAL!
     
  46. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    Because, as Adam_M quoted up there:
     
  47. Rackover

    Rackover

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    This is an extremely sad state of affairs, and I cannot understand how the decision to keep the code internally unfinished & let it rot was seen as better than releasing the unfinished code as is in a public repository, archived for instance.

    There is no such thing as "it wouldn't have been useful" and "it would not have served the same purpose". When people put work and heart into a piece of art, you do not lock it down in a basement never for it to see the light of day again - even if it is unfinished.
    Doing so is disrepectful to the team who worked on it, and as a game worker I take it as an external sign of untrustworthiness and that whoever took this decision would rather burn books than give them away if they can't make profit from it.

    It has been seen time and time again how eager people are to take unfinished projects and bring them to completion in an open source, collaborative manner - something that shouldn't have been required from the start, but now that we're here - and explicitely barring that from happening out of... what exactly? an overly feeling of intellectual property protection ? a fear for bad rep, worse rep than what you're currently getting? pure lack of interest for art in general, lack of consideration for the work of others? is sickening to the highest level.

    I wish a good unionization to every Unity worker out there.
     
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  48. Aladine

    Aladine

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    why does Unity keep making one bad decision after the other ?
    the clusterfuck of multiple useless version that I guarantee NOBODY in their mind will use the current yearly version of unity in their professional project (we just upgraded to 2020 few months ago), all the unfinished half-baked preview packages, ffs, just end this, announce Unity 6 and start taking your game engine seriously! it's just a matter of years for Godot to be a viable competitor for mobile games and then Unity will only have the upper hand in AR, and for PC/Console the game is already decided, no one in their right mind will chose Unity over Unreal 5. How can't they see that ??
     
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  49. timmehhhhhhh

    timmehhhhhhh

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    I see it more as a lot of venting, frustration, and coming to terms with the fact that while Unity may continue to be a great tool, at least for some time, the core spirit of the project is increasingly being lost, if not already gone.

    John seems like a good natured, intelligent guy. And while I think recent decisions and statements were very poorly made, I believe they were done with the best intentions. So, speaking for myself (and setting emotions aside), it comes down to a simple question of:

    Do I want to continue working with and investing in a stack whose primary drive will be helping developers build their mobile economies via educational resources and analytics? Or should I take a hard look at the best use of my time and invest it in technologies that are more aligned with my own creative goals, whatever they may be?

    Both are valid, important, and part of my everyday work. Unity may very well provide a great solution for the former, but even if they do I think they'll have a very tough time innovating in that space better than a project like say, Roblox (which to me feels like the bigger play). I'd love to be wrong, but for many reasons I'm no longer convinced they'll be competitive more generally on the latter.
     
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  50. atomicjoe

    atomicjoe

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    I'm not sure we're talking about the same John.
     
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