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Official Introducing Enemies: The latest evolution in high-fidelity digital humans from Unity

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Mar 18, 2022.

  1. MiTschMR

    MiTschMR

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    Same for Gigaya...
     
  2. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    ??? Gigaya has been cancelled, see the thread next to this one with 14+ pages to read about.
    @LeonhardP Any news about the hair package? I guess it's fair to ask now, as you mentioned we'll get new information in a couple of weeks like four weeks ago;) Our studio really needs to make a decision what to do regarding hair in Unity, either wait or build it ourselves, as there is no satisfying solution around at all (we had the same for cloth simulation before, and we went with "build"). We'd be also willing to try out pre-beta / alpha stuff.
     
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  3. MiTschMR

    MiTschMR

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    I know that it has been cancelled, but they are looking away like that when asked about it. No response beside that one official statement, no more interaction.
     
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  4. koirat

    koirat

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    I bet this image was generated with usage of "Enemies" technology.
     
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  5. Kory-therapy

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    I was watching this YouTube beta video and alot of the features in beta 2022.2 has Enemies effect so maybe beta 2022.3 will release Enemies
     
  6. altepTest

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    I've looked at the entire video. he talks about the eye shader. There was an eye shader already, we will see if the one from this video is not the same one already included with the hdrp examples.

    but looking at an eye shader which the author of the video may have been mistakenly assumed is from the enemy video, and jumping to thinking that the hair "system" and the "skin" will be included in 2022 is a bit far fetched.

    Also, is probable most of the enemy team was laid off, if this is not off course and external team which created the demo and then the internal dev team need to actually make a useful tool out of it.

    the difference between creating a custom solution that works with a specific mesh and a specific lighting situation and specific project AND having a hair system like the one from unreal is day and night. Also, maybe unreal has some patents on that system. Go figure if unity can actually do something similar.
     
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  7. Onigiri

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  8. Kory-therapy

    Kory-therapy

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    Thank you for the post
     
  9. altepTest

    altepTest

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    ok finally, one can finally look at this. appears to be similar with the unreal hair which is fine, unity really needed this years ago.
     
  10. Qleenie

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    Nice! Anyone managed to assign a material to simulated hair? Probably we need to wait for the documentation in order to fully use it. I did not manage to assign any custom material, even the ones in the samples package do not seem to work correctly.
     
  11. Qleenie

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    Managed to create a material with the provided shader graph node. It just seems there is no real sample material in the package, besides the rainbow coloured one. At least I did not found.
     
  12. altepTest

    altepTest

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    Code (CSharp):
    1. Render high quality strands using the upcoming compute-based HDRP hair renderer [ depends on Unity >= 2023.1 ]
    Here it is, exactly how I've predicted. If you want the hair from the video demo you need to wait for 2023 version, and most important the 2023 version that will support the features required by the hair system.

    So saying that they have build this demo with the current unity versions was a big fat lie. any surprise? Why they even do this, why lie?

    you need that "compute-based HDRP hair renderer" stuff which is not included in the current versions, is not even in the final stages of development.

    yesterday I was thinking that for once I was wrong and the hair package will be released as promised. well turns out I didn't read the description till the end.
     
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  13. Kory-therapy

    Kory-therapy

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    Very excited for Unity 2023
     
  14. Qleenie

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    It's still very good, probably on Unreal level. What is missing is the high quality rendering in HDRP as seen in the Enemies, but everything is there and seems to be pretty impressive.
     
  15. altepTest

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    the issue here is not how it looks, is that they said it was done with the current generations of the editors and it was not true. and when I'm pointing this lie out some users think I'm in the wrong and unity is sweet honey level of trust.

    this is just a preview package that is not integrated with the engine tools, saying is on unreal level is not true, may only trick people that didn't know the hair from unreal.

    why I'm making a big deal out of this anyway? Because I've actually believed the lies for about two years. Not nice.
     
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  16. Onigiri

    Onigiri

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  17. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    did you try it already?
     
  18. DragonCoder

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    While "not integrated with Unity tools" yet, it is on its way.
    Aren't you confusing this with gigaya which was current engine?
    The Enemies blog entry says:
    "Most of the improvements in Unity that originated from the production of Enemies, or were directly adopted in it, are already in Unity 2021.2 or will be shipping in 2022.1 or 2022.2."

    Would say that fits. The Hair demo on Github has 2020 as minimum and only one feature, the top notch one requires 2023.
     
  19. Kory-therapy

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    Watching Unity on Facebook and YouTube the Enemies demo is coming soon maybe tomorrow or next week check out trailer on youtube and facebook❤
     
  20. AlexHolderDev

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    Is that Lion / Unity Art Tools blog post getting a forum announcement post? If not, will leave this here...


    Still doesn't look like this stuff is fully-contained within the Unity Editor, so that's a major pain point and will really reduce the impact this has on gamedevs. I don't want to need Autodesk and a variety of cloud apps to use this stuff, so I just won't use it.

    Also also, does this being released now mean that the Unity Art Tools / hair tech team will be laid off in 4 months? Or 6 months? Or maybe even sooner?
     
  21. altepTest

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    To all the people that still deny the obvious while just a couple of weeks ago the CEO of unity said you are all stupid for trying to build your dream game, as always, time will tell. You can read this thread from the beginning and what I was talking about happened exactly as I've said.

    No, I'm not mistaken, they said the stuff from this demo works on current generation editors and it will come up to use in a few months (that was when this was announced) for the current generations of editors. That was the point of the video, to show case what unity can do right now, not what it can do in the next few years.

    And gigaya, don't remind me about that, the same apply, show that one can build a game using current available tools. We know how that ended up.

    I've said, this is a lie, and at best it will show up in the 2023, which I need to remind you will not be stable at least till spring next year. I was right. That is a fact.

    having a hair package on github to look at and having a hair system to use in a game is a big difference if you actually want to build a game.

    I'm feed up of people, many that are creating tutorials on youtube, just taking these packages, create a simple tutorial, and then forget about their project. They give the wrong impression that is production ready where a particular feature is just a demo. Once you try creating a game using that feature you hit your head against something that is not production ready.

    Exactly what happened with the gigaya team. Hit the wall, said this to the management, management decided to sweep them under the rug, and throw the rug out of the window.

    I think it was an external team, a contracted company that created the hair in the demo. They can't fire them :) I bet they have tried to create the hair using standard tools, failed miserable, then they took the HDRP, modified and added that custom "compute-based HDRP hair renderer" to make the video work.

    unity published the video, lied and said it was done with the standard tools. I mean, I know the world is nuts and people have no logic anymore, but for me, and I'm not the brightest, is obvious that if you modify the standard HDRP to make the hair works, then is not "standard".
     
  22. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    too many assumptions, and why don't you try the hair yourself?
    I am not advocate of Unity, but the hair package is nice. It's missing a tutorial and samples, but with one day of fiddling around, I am getting great results already, and preparing to make it ship in a live product in a few weeks (early access though). So far it seems really stable, last thing I need to test if it works fine in build, too.
    about the editor thing vs lie: I guess they just did not say that they were running on a custom version of HDRP including the additions made by the demo team (special hair shader, special skin shader, area light shadow improvements), I don't think the editor version was customized, as I don't see any need for with the things being shown.
    I guess seeing this hair package in action should be more appreciated, why always only complain?
     
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  23. altepTest

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    I would like to know which of the facts I'm talking about are assumptions in your opinion.


    here is not the issue if the hair is nice or not. if you actually read what I'm talking about, the issue is that they have promised the hair from the video, the one that the woman has, which they said was made with the current generation of unity using the standard tools available to everyone.


    no, they specifically said it was made with the current generation of editors. and I pointed out is a high budget project that the rest of us can't do. We know that if one has a big budget can extend unity to make it do awesome stuff, like for example genshin impact.

    i think you don't read my post and just reply stuff to reply. read the information attached to the hair package on github. they say it is missing the "compute-based HDRP hair renderer" which will be included in the 2023 version. But, the video of the woman has that feature. So, it means that they have changed the editor/hdrp to add that feature. That is the point. They said it was not custom and it was custom.

    what you call complaining is me pointing out the facts that shows that unity lied once again when they should had been honest. We like honest companies, we don't like liars.

    they made a lot of demos in the past that used stuff not included in the engine then they have given the impressions is something we can all do. People called them out on this and so for this video they said they will not do it again. Which they did.

    Edit: I've put this text in the wrong part, it didn't make any sense there, even could had been interpreted as something else: "I wish you good luck in making this work in your game." I really mean this, hope it works well for you :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  24. DragonCoder

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    Doru is known for those xP
     
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  25. Kory-therapy

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    So when will we get our hands on the Tech demo of Enemies I see the trailer for the hair does anyone know If the github has pre made hair or are we starting from scratch ? I just want to dissect the enemy's female model

     
  26. Qleenie

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    The GitHub project for hair is very barebones. Not even a complete shader, no real hair meshes/ alembics. It comes with very simple scene to test things out. But it works very well once you get a few things together, a shader and some pre made alembic hair (same as Unreal is using)
     
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  27. Onigiri

    Onigiri

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    No one has said we will get full demo
     
  28. Kory-therapy

    Kory-therapy

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    I thought he said that on the GDC showcase around 3min mark he said something about the heretic demo being release the same with the Enemies demo I will message them and ask.



    Thanks
     

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  29. mush555

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    Heretic shared only characters and shaders as Digital Human Package 1.0.
    Enemies will be shared as a digital human package2.0.
    I think it will not a full demo and only shares some features of shaders and face controllers.
    In good cases it will come with a demo character model.

    Unreal allowed me to experience a full demo in my editor by simply pressing the play button.
    Unity will always share some parts of the demo, so it will not attract customers.
    It also fails to inspire current users.
    Unfortunately, demo videos always work as hype.
     
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  30. altepTest

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    I can confirm, if you see on youtube a demo made by unreal, then most of the time you can be sure you can download the full project and you can open it inside the engine.

    Untiy demos are showcasing stuff/tools they are working on which may or may not be included in FUTURE editor versions. They are not meant for you to download them right now and play with them at this moment in time.

    For some reason, many unity users expects exactly the opposite. They want the full demo. Me included, for example with the heretic demo, I really was expecting the full demo but we only got the character. Which was fine, learned stuff from that project, but it was not the full demo.

    These wrong expectations were fueled by unity public relation team, which were not clear on the purpose of the videos.

    Take the video above, "Strand-based Hair Solution | Unity", there is no mention in the video of the topic of the video being in development, not released yet. It gives the impression is something you can do right now.

    Some users got feed-up with this, and unity took notice and they said this new enemy demo will not be like the ones from the past and you can work with and learn from it, it represents what you can do with unity right now. Some believed this, I didn't, and I called this as untrue months ago.

    Unfortunately the video I've mentioned, "Strand-based Hair Solution | Unity", just show that unity got back to the old habits.

    tldr: you will not get the enemy demo.
     
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  31. Kory-therapy

    Kory-therapy

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    I did email Unity Enemies team but if we don't get Enemies demo in Asset store can we just get female with head moving with hair please upload 4 different hair styles Afro Enemies hair and two of the ones from GDC before Oct 1st please
     

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  32. Andy-Touch

    Andy-Touch

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    Thats an oddly specific date?!
     
  33. Kory-therapy

    Kory-therapy

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    Start of Q4
     
  34. Kory-therapy

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    It would be nice to just have demo of the hair start at :07 -.12 sec with maybe 4 or more different hair style
     
  35. Kory-therapy

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    I seen this on ziva but it kind looks like alot of work and I normally just have my models rigged and animated in iclone then exported to unity3d my goal is to upgrade to iclone 8 and have two demo ready before GDC 2023 but I need the different shaders in Enemies demo before Q4 if I'm going to make deadline.

    Ziva video


    Iclone 8 in unity3d
     
  36. altepTest

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    I love this world. :D No one even try to understands what other people are saying.

    The assets you are seeing in the demo are made with a custom editor/engine that you don't have access to.

    What you see in the video work only on the computers where the videos was created.

    They can't even build the project and release it as a game demo to play on your computer.

    When the features required to run this will be included in the editor, then maybe they may try to convert them. Chances are small, is more likely they will build new demo files.
     
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  37. ROBYER1

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  38. ROBYER1

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    Says here, posted on March 2022:

    In a month or two, we’ll release a Digital Human 2.0 package that contains all of the updates and enhancements we’ve made since the version we shared for The Heretic. (Click for Blog Post Link)

    It's been 5 months...
     
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  39. Qleenie

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    seems that some stuff did not made it into 2022.2 as planned. So I guess we need to wait until the new HDRP features used in the Enemies demo land in 2023.1 alpha before they are able to release the package with a working demo.
    I am already using the hair package. It is great. Looking forward to the new hair renderer, which probably solves the remaining issues (scattering and aliasing).
     
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  40. Kory-therapy

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    If anyone make a new forum on the hair tool post it in this forum so we all can follow.

    Thanks
     
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  41. Qleenie

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    Would be good to get an "official" thread about the hair package. In ideal case with some information;) Things like documentation and example shader would be very helpful instead of going through each setting and try and error ;)
     
  42. Kory-therapy

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    Here what Unity team said

    Hello Kory,

    Thank you for contacting the Unity Customer Experience team. Firstly - I’d like to apologize for the delay! We have been experiencing an influx of tickets and haven't been able to get back to our users as fast as we would like to.

    I escalated your questions with our Demo team and they have let me know there are indeed plans to release the Enemies Demo into the Asset Store; however, there is still not an specific date of when this can happen.

    The team has also let me know they have updated the Digital Human package that they released from The Heretic with new work and improvements developed on the basis of Enemies, and this update is going to be released quite soon.

    Hope this helps!


    Alexa
    Customer Experience Advisor
     
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  43. Kory-therapy

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    Has anyone made a thread for hair tool? I would love to see people work.
     
  44. kite3h

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    Please make cloth physics in the same way as hair physics.
     
  45. ROBYER1

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    I don't think the developers look here much, please post this on the roadmap where they will see it directly https://unity.com/roadmap/unity-platform
     
  46. pauldrummond

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    There is a new commit to the com.unity.demoteam.digital-human repo with the status "Add latest improvements for the package from Enemies project". However, there's no documentation or demo scene. Trying the script and shader on a mesh just gives errors about a missing Computer Buffer. Guidance on using this would be much appreciated.
     
  47. Qleenie

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    My guess is they are waiting for the necessary changes in 2023.1 alpha in order to be able to publish the demo. As far as I can see, the HDRP HairRenderer is not yet part of the alpha.
     
  48. pauldrummond

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    I think you're right. However, the skin deformation is supposed to work with Unity 2021. It would be good to start working with this now.
     
  49. altepTest

    altepTest

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    where did you got this information?
     
  50. pauldrummond

    pauldrummond

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    From Rob Cupizs, tech lead on the demo team.