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Official Important updates to the Unity Runtime Fee policy

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by UnityJuju, Sep 22, 2023.

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  1. pdinklag

    pdinklag

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    Thanks @zombiegorilla . So maybe to ask this again, as apparently it always seemed to drown in the chit chat:

    When can we finally expect legally binding language about what was announced regarding applicability of the Terms of Servce? The open "sorry" letter by Marc Whitten was relieving, important and most welcome, but from a legal point of view it's basically worthless. We still have no clarity. It has been over a month of dead silence on this matter.


     
  2. Nest_g

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    Really is more than a month of silence, with more days of silence and some of censure in the forums more devs will be leave the Unity boat.
     
  3. pdinklag

    pdinklag

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    Be my guest. I don't have the option, nor do I even desire to leave. There's also a difference between moderation and censorship. This thread is in dire need of the former because of people who have to comment everything but nothing to contribute.
     
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  4. MrBigly

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    Honestly, until Unity tells us specifically what to expect, there is nothing left to talk about. The same questions about pricing keep coming up... because... Unity won't clarify them for us.

    I think that is why we talk about everything else... this horse has been beaten to death several times over.

    I would close the thread already.
     
  5. impheris

    impheris

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    agree the thread is now boring with the same 5 users talking about the same everytime like walking in circles, i would close the thread too at least until a new official update
     
  6. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Until they make an announcement or release the new TOS there's nothing left to discuss on the official topic. Last time we had word from a staff member was page 59, and once they do have something to say they'll just create a new thread to go along with the new blog post.

    Once it's ready. If I had to speculate the earliest that I'd expect it to be available is Unite 2023 (Nov 15th and 16th).
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2023
  7. Nest_g

    Nest_g

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    I hope for a official announce before Unite, if not the ambient in this event will be weird.

    Exist in the forum a thread for speak freely about any thing?
     
  8. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Best case scenario we might see one just before the event starts.

    No. Technically speaking these forums are only for Unity discussions but occasionally special circumstances lead the moderators to letting more than that occur. Unity administrators haven't done anything about these past two threads because it was a good way to consolidate the negativity while still getting constructive criticism.
     
  9. IllTemperedTunas

    IllTemperedTunas

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    If Unity wants a constructive and on topic conversation they're welcome to come here and get it on track by providing a dialogue. There isn't a poster here (aside from a few who want to see it all burn) who doesn't want this thread to turn into a constructive and great conversation on this topic where everyone leaves satisfied.

    The silence does not inspire confidence and the only party responsible for this declining dialogue is Unity.

    The solution here is simple. We, the users want a fair, amicable and mutually beneficial solution to this situation so we can know we're not going to be screwed over with these TOS. We want everyone to win, we want Unity to make money, we want fantastic tools that inspire confidence.

    Does Unity want to add new terms that allows them to make money for their fantastic engine? GREAT! Do it! Just be transparent and come to us in good faith without any of this new age number fudging, and underhanded tricks with how you plan to charge based on internal metrics.

    At least us users have come to the table, we've put our hearts out there and expressed openly all our concerns and why we fear for our hopes and dreams under the current stewardship of this engine are in jeopardy.

    We fear our trust will be weaponized against us, that the greed, incompetency and the reckless acts by those in positions of unrestrained power within Unity will have dire consequences for us in the future. Every passing day these new wounds fester as hope runs dry that this situation can be mended.

    This situation is awful, we all hate this. We all wish we could go back in a time machine 5 years and go back to just making great games and being excited for the next keynote, back when we didn't think this company looked at us like wolves look at sheep.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
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  10. AcidArrow

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    As long as people hold on hope for Unity to make things right with their next move (a sentiment I see a lot in this thread), it is to Unity's benefit to make their moves reaaaaalllyyy slooooowwwllllyyyy, especially if they intend to keep their current course and / or slowly make the terms worse and worse.

    As long as they don't do anything, people will delude themselves into "maybe the interim CEO will make things right!" or "maybe the next CEO will make things right!".

    There was a moment where they could've salvaged this, that time has passed.
     
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  11. IllTemperedTunas

    IllTemperedTunas

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    Slow is not the worst case scenario, i'll take slow. What is terrifying is the prospect of rapid actions that would jeopardies all of our projects and all the years of investment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
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  12. LilGames

    LilGames

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    Unity Plus perks have been taken away in 2018.4 !

    When is Plus tier supposed do be disabled for existing subscribers? I thought it was gone for new subs but existing customers still had time before a forced change; Today I loaded up an existing ongoing (aka "Live") project that's unfortunately code/feature-frozen to 2018.4 (because reasons) and now Dark mode, Splash screen and custom splash logos options are locked out. Nice.

    Still available in 2021.3 though. Which versions get reverted now and which don't? Was this detailed anywhere?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
  13. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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  14. AcidArrow

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    In my mind slow is worse, because with fast decline more people will give up hope and move on, while with slow they will stay on the boat all the way to the bottom of the ocean.
     
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  15. nasos_333

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    They already made things right in multiple ways, versus the original announcement, while still remaining at a far lower rate than Unreal 5% with just 2.5% and only in the worse case scenario.

    So i don't see why we should assume the worst and a certain doom for the platform.

    I was happy to see that the system is still used for the majority of itch.io games, in my opinion it is still by miles the best engine to develop for with massively better workflow and store help than the next best option.
    https://itch.io/game-development/engines/most-projects

    I would have never gone into game development if it was not for Unity and still is same.

    I am sure they take their time to perfect the TOS as well, given the last backlash with the faster decisions, and i assume these legal things take long time to put together and perfect to everyone's satisfaction.
     
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  16. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Cool. Now look at the "this week" numbers.
     
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  17. nasos_333

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    Indeed, is 4 times more than Unreal, which make sense. Using Unreal makes development like 10x slower (or impossible if need some specific library from the store), so is expected.
     
  18. MrBigly

    MrBigly

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    It really is fascinating to see the divergence of perspective here, still after weeks of discussion.



    About the pic in your post, when it says 116k projects, 168 this week, what does the 116k represent and what does the 168 represent?

    Are these new project started or new projects published?
     
  19. oninoshiko

    oninoshiko

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    Total projects is not the right metric. Few will port an existing title, the more interesting metric is the "this week" metric, which of the ones listed there unity is 3rd. Godot (1st) is FLOSS, Construct (2nd) is a pay-for-editor style license. It's a shame they don't seem to have a graph of that over time, I suspect Unity wasn't always in 3rd place.
     
  20. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    In my mind per week for a single week means absolutely nothing, it is very local to have any meaning.
    Not sure if they have a graph on that, how projects arrive last months for example, that would be more meaningful.

    But for now the overall project count is the only meaningful metric and Unity absolutely eclipses anything else, probably is more than all other engines combined, and 20x more than Unreal, the only other similar option that is not 2D centric.
     
  21. oninoshiko

    oninoshiko

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    Total projects is in no way a meaningful metric, because it won't indicate the change in usage of the engine for new projects until it's far too late.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
  22. nasos_333

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    You think that there will be a massive change of engine usage because of a new fee that probably is not affecting a single one of those 119k projects ?

    The total shows why developers use Unity, because increases productivity and makes game development possible in the first place. The fee wont change that.

    The fee without the 2.5% cap might have though, as that would create a mistrust and fear in what can possibly happen.

    I am glad they had the sense to change that aspect.

    Note also how the weekly projects is still 4x the Unreal ones.
     
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  23. AcidArrow

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    No, there will be a massive change because of the loss of trust, we've been over this.
     
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  24. neoshaman

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    Speaking about slowness of response, there is multiple layer of stakeholder, from the base employee task to answer these threads, to remote silverlake investor. Each layer need deliberating on what they can do, such that once a policy has exhausted it's options, each layer need to figure out their positioning and passing it down to lower layer.

    We are never going to have fast (honest) answer in a(n honest) discussion with the corporate complexity of current unity. CEO shuffling is at investor layer, then new ceo and the board need to figure out a position, then pass structured instructions to base employee. Any discussion will be rot by default.

    The way you should expect the communication to work, is once a policy is exhausted, the thread is (should be) used for datamining to collect grievance data and then process by the higher layer for a new positioning, until a "policy script" is forged for the base employee to enact. Typically a new thread will be created to make datamining easier.

    Welcome to corporate hell.
     
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  25. UhOhItsMoving

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    upload_2023-10-31_20-38-53.png
     
  26. Nest_g

    Nest_g

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    If we take into consideration that Godot is a small open source engine in development then this numbers are crazy, very bad numbers for Unity.
     
  27. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    That is 12 paid games and only 3 are 3D ones in Godot.

    In Unity is 32 paid and 9 that are 3D.

    That is exactly 3x more paid 3D games than Godot.

    But then again the sample in 30 days is a like a drop in an ocean, only the overall ammount counts.

    2700 paid games for Unity, 400 in Godot and 500 in Unreal

    My crystal ball is not so clear, the massive i see is like few users maximum.

    The trust is fully restored now after the changes, if anything Unity listen to users and not apply a high 5% fee like Unreal.

    I actually trust Unity much more now, as they have proven they listen to user needs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
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  28. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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  29. LeonhardP

    LeonhardP

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    Hi everyone,

    Today, we have published an update to the Unity Editor Software Terms.

    We have also added the following answers to the official FAQ.

    Q: What are you changing in the terms?
    A: The last changes were made on November 2, 2023. We have posted an update to our Unity Editor Software Terms to clarify which versions of the Unity Software the Unity Runtime Fee applies to and to provide that if we update these Editor Software Terms, you can elect to remain on the prior accepted version. These changes are posted to our GitHub repository and https://unity.com/legal. Learn more in the blog.

    Q: When do my revenue and initial engagements start counting toward the Runtime Fee thresholds?
    A: At the point when you upgrade to the next major Unity release in 2024 (currently referred to as Unity 2023 LTS), your revenue and initial engagements will start counting from zero toward the Runtime Fee thresholds. Once you reach the thresholds of $1,000,000 USD within the past 12 months AND 1 million initial engagements, the Runtime Fee will apply the following month based on your new initial engagements over the first million. For example, if you upgrade to Unity 2023 LTS on December 1, 2024, that’s when the count towards the thresholds start.

    Q: With Unity Plus being discontinued, can I customize the Unity splash screen without migrating to the latest LTS or upgrading to Unity Pro?
    A: If you’re on Unity Personal, you can customize the splash screen by either migrating to the next LTS releasing in 2024 or upgrading to Unity Pro.

    If you’re currently on Unity Plus, you have these options to continue customizing the Unity splash screen:
    1. You can renew your Unity Plus plan, for one additional year, by March 27, 2024.
    2. You can upgrade to Unity Pro for the price of Unity Plus for one year (limited time offer available from October 16, 2023, until December 31, 2023).
    3. You can move to Unity Personal and migrate to the next LTS releasing in 2024.
    Q: If I’m on Unity Personal, will I have the option to customize the splash screen?
    A: You will be able to choose whether to include the Made with Unity splash screen in your games when you use and accept the terms of the next LTS releasing in 2024 (currently referred to as 2023 LTS).

    Q: Is there still a revenue limit for eligibility to use Unity Personal?
    A: Yes, the current revenue limit for eligibility to use Unity Personal is $100,000 USD in revenue and funding. We’re increasing this eligibility limit to $200,000 USD in annual revenue and funding, which will apply to organizations that use and accept the terms of the next LTS releasing in 2024 (currently referred to as 2023 LTS). For example, if you have $150,000 USD in combined revenue and funding, you can use Unity Personal starting with 2023 LTS. If you are on a previous version such as 2022 LTS, you would need to upgrade to Unity Pro.
     
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